Immortal Juggernaut

[GameNirvana]

A fair point, but I would argue that a tank's job in this game's PvP is not necessarily mitigation but protection and battlefield control.

 

With talents such as Thrown Gauntlet, which reduces the cooldown on your AoE taunt and your Force Push, Force Grip, which makes Force Choke a non-channeled ability, and Backhand, it's pretty obvious to me at least that for PvP purposes it's intended you guys annoy a lot of people and are more for support and node control.

 

Just my two cents though.

 

You are very right in that our design is to annoy. Control nodes though? We don't have enough survivability to make a big impression on node control.

[Sherpova]

You are very right in that our design is to annoy. Control nodes though? We don't have enough survivability to make a big impression on node control.

 

I would heartily disagree with you!

 

Chilling Scream, Smash, and many single target CC abilities can make node-capturing a complete PITA for the opposing side, especially if the opposing side DOESN'T attack you first and lets you guard and Taunt spam.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Sherpova

[warkat]

You shouldn't be playing defense tree in PvP unles u have Pve gear and can get to 27k hp. Defense / shield or absorption dont work in PvP atm thats why tanks are gimped if they go tank tree.

[Anatlos]

You are very right in that our design is to annoy. Control nodes though? We don't have enough survivability to make a big impression on node control.

 

I can typically survive and stall, not win obviously, but survive and stall 4v1 for about 30 seconds with fresh cooldowns. You're doing something wrong.

[Airoper]

Darth Allister <FURY>

ven zallow RpPvP server

i do fine for a under geared imm hit me up for a chat

[GameNirvana]

I can typically survive and stall, not win obviously, but survive and stall 4v1 for about 30 seconds with fresh cooldowns. You're doing something wrong.

 

I don't survive and stall for 30 seconds because I am usually CC'd out the *** when attacked by 4 ppl. I'd say I can last 30 seconds only when I'm not CC'd to death.

 

Either way, that's not long enough for a team to come protect the point if they are struggling to fight elsewhere which is usually the case.

[Sherpova]

I don't survive and stall for 30 seconds because I am usually CC'd out the *** when attacked by 4 ppl. I'd say I can last 30 seconds only when I'm not CC'd to death.

 

Either way, that's not long enough for a team to come protect the point if they are struggling to fight elsewhere which is usually the case.

 

I hate to sound this negative but if your team can't pick up the slack from you defending a point for 30+ seconds, the node DESERVES to be taken over.

[Anatlos]

I don't survive and stall for 30 seconds because I am usually CC'd out the *** when attacked by 4 ppl. I'd say I can last 30 seconds only when I'm not CC'd to death.

 

Either way, that's not long enough for a team to come protect the point if they are struggling to fight elsewhere which is usually the case.

 

You can't really get CC'd for that long against that number of people if you use your CC breaker at the right time. Most groups will come in and ZOMGSTUN the one guy there, so your resolve bar will fill up immediately. If it doesn't, wait till it does. THEN break CC, and you're immune for a while.

 

Popping invincible just before the attack helps too, but that requires a little bit of situational awareness so pay attention to what's going on

[Shendaar]

Funny. Vids please.

 

Nothing funny about it. You have 2 defensive cooldowns + Endure pain, 2 stuns + Force Push and 1 interrupt on an 8sec cooldown. You should have a lot more armor than most and your damage isn't all that bad if you run in DPS gear. If you can't kill someone 1v1 with all that you have to be doing it wrong.

[Dee-Jay]

A lot of defense-mechanics like Absorb, Parry etc. don't seem to work that well in PvP which is why tanks don't really have such great survivability at times. Still better than most, just not great.

[darthfaded]

As a tank spec ur job is to Guard, taunt, and cc the **** out of healers or any dps trying to get ur healers. That's your job.

 

And because that's our job we aren't allowed to do enough dps to kill anyone? Not following u there, sorry.

[darthfaded]

A lot of defense-mechanics like Absorb, Parry etc. don't seem to work that well in PvP which is why tanks don't really have such great survivability at times. Still better than most, just not great.

 

Yeah that is my point. We need some love. Thanks for understanding.

[darthfaded]

I don't survive and stall for 30 seconds because I am usually CC'd out the *** when attacked by 4 ppl. I'd say I can last 30 seconds only when I'm not CC'd to death.

 

Either way, that's not long enough for a team to come protect the point if they are struggling to fight elsewhere which is usually the case.

 

/agreed

[waznpride]

I absolutely love my Immortal Jug in PvP. Yes, I realize that I can't spike dmg like other classes (or if i spec'd Vengence (dmg)), but I love jumping in the fray, annoying the crap outta the entire team and surviving another day. In WZ, I guard and CC/snare the enemy team and chase after their squishies (cuz I can actually kill them with my low expertise). I average 7 medals on Alderaan or Voidstar and 5 in Huttball, even if my team is losing. I don't know what everyone else stacks as their secondary stats, but I stack Defence Rating, LOTS of it. I have a base defense chance of 21%, an armor reduction of 45% and I ALWAYS sit in Soresu Stance because I love it.

 

In a game of Huttball, I had a good sorc healer, which I guarded. I grabbed the ball and just walked from the middle to the goal, with the entire enemy team trying to beat down on me. If I was in any other spec besides Immortal, I would be done for.

 

Immortal spec is built for PvE (tank), but it's usefulness in PvP (damage mitigation) is amazing as runners, interruptions or objective players. Sure, I wish I could 1v1 kill anyone, but hey! at least I can just beat down on them and mitigate their dmg so it just becomes a long fight that I will win eventually

[Tenthletter]

and that we have pretty much no CC in anyway, is also an issue.

 

Juggs have arguably the most CC in the game.

 

Single Target Knockback+Down, 2 Single Target stuns (one of which is ranged), Stun and/or Root off of Force Leap, Interrupt, Spammable AOE Snare, AOE Mez.

 

That's not taking into account AOE Accuracy Reduction, Guard, Taunt and AOE Taunt.

 

Did I just get trolled hard?

[CaptainInsano]

If you're trying to solo as Immortal of course you're going to have a horrible experience. It's a tank spec, meaning you're meant to guard a healer. Tank+Healer is practically unbeatable in this game by any other combo. If you want to solo, play Rage.

[Aroidan]

I am not sure why people think the knight is some sort of crowd control beast... We have only 1 strait up stun ability and that is channeled unless speced. We have 1 AOE Slow and force push. We can get other short 2 second stuns depending on spec but that is it. I would take the commando 55 second mez or the sage/sorc stun loc kill any day of the week.

 

As has been said many times before the defense specs do not work well in PvP because damage mitigation is broken and doesn't work well. It is more effective for me to mitigate the damage with a taunt and try to drop the guy attacking the healer then to put guard on the healer. Also Master Strike is pretty useless in PvP for guardians. Apparently the sents get the ability to make master strike stun for the duration of the attack. That would be nice to have...

[Dreadspectre]

Immortal is fine, you just need a team with it.

 

No premade will be without a true tank. I'm not kidding. Premade with a healer, even just the two of you and stick to the healer like glue and you guys can change the game drastically.

 

You should be much less concerned with doing damage and more concerned with CC'ing everything, keeping things taunted, debuffing armor, swapping guards if need be, and even ball carrying if you are in Huttball as we are quite possibly the most mobile class in the game.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Dreadspectre

[Sherpova]

And because that's our job we aren't allowed to do enough dps to kill anyone? Not following u there, sorry.

 

I'm not really sure you understand the function of a tank in a PvP environment.

 

I've provided you with evidence as to why I believe your definition of what a tank's role in PvP is incorrect, but you've ignored it.

 

As a Juggernaut, and even more so an Immortal Juggernaut, you were given gratuitous amounts of crowd control and group utility. Do you see a correlation here?

[IAmJakub]

Funny that I play as Defense JK and I majority of the time (~90%) come up top of the scoreboard. My damage is between 100-200k, around 50-100k protection and up to 10k healing from 2 piece.

 

1v1 I can deal with anyone. Yesterday I had a good 1v1 with a sorc healer, I finally killed him once his energy thing ran out after about 5 min and my health was down to 10%

 

Main thing about PvP tank is to get the spec right. Gear offensively and in group environment cc/taunt/guardian leap whenever the stuff isn't on cooldown (and is called for)

 

Oh yeah, my spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500frhfzMbkzZhRrMR0z.1

[Wickedchick]

If you're trying to solo as Immortal of course you're going to have a horrible experience. It's a tank spec, meaning you're meant to guard a healer. Tank+Healer is practically unbeatable in this game by any other combo. If you want to solo, play Rage.

 

 

 

 

The point is: we can handle not being able to knock %5 life off any other class. It just doesn't make sense for a tank to go down so fast. We understand about guarding and taunting its the being squishy as a tank we don't understand.

 

Anyone who said they kill 1v1 as immortal is one of two things fighting another immortal or telling a big fat story.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Wickedchick

[endikux]

your job is not to kill people but protect them, in hutball I can hit over 100k protection, if you average 15k per health per player thats like 6-7 people not dying.

 

This isn't an attack on this guy, but these responses make me laugh. Guard is unmitigated, so the damage goes directly through to the tank's health as if he were naked. While this splits the damage done between two people, it also means you can do more damage to the tank than if you were to damage him directly.

 

Now the follow up argument is that guard works well because it allows a healer to heal the two players (the guarded player and his guarding tank). However the simple question to ask is, why not just have another healer in place of that tank? The healer can keep topping off health, the tank can only give you his own. Without a healer involved the guard mechanic just prolongs the inevitable. A healer can prevent the inevitable.

 

Now if you had the ability to actually do some good with cc or dps while guarding someone, then that would be a different story. But again, a healer can do just as much cc and dps as a guarding immortal jugg.

 

I've played all three trees. People want to say immortal has these great uses. It doesn't. It's a niche build for pvp that is 100% reliant on a healer. No different than if you tanked in pve. You are just as weak as any other class with not that many more stuns. Especially once you consider how often people can break stun or absorb it through their own abilities.

 

PvP comes down to killing things or healing. Being a tad more tanky (which is a fallacy anyway), and having a couple more stuns, doesn't make the immortal tree have any worth in pvp compared to the other two trees which actually accomplish the task of hurting people.

[PostalTwinkie]

Is it just me or is the Immortal tree next to worthless in PvP?

 

At 500 expertise with full champ gear I am getting my *** handed to me by nearly every class. The damage output for the immortal tree is absolutely deplorable. And the mitigation is non-existant in comparison to the damage that can be put out.

 

What are the rest of you 31 Immortal Juggs experiencing?

 

If you don't play one and don't know what you're talking about, don't post. Thanks.

 

We are great at taking the ball and walking it across the entire map for the win. Outside of that we have very little function, if you want to destroy people spec to Rage and get good with it. You will walk over every class in the game, it is hilarious.

[kweassa]

This isn't an attack on this guy, but these responses make me laugh. Guard is unmitigated, so the damage goes directly through to the tank's health as if he were naked. While this splits the damage done between two people, it also means you can do more damage to the tank than if you were to damage him directly.

 

Ever heard of "taunt"?

 

 

Now the follow up argument is that guard works well because it allows a healer to heal the two players (the guarded player and his guarding tank). However the simple question to ask is, why not just have another healer in place of that tank? The healer can keep topping off health, the tank can only give you his own. Without a healer involved the guard mechanic just prolongs the inevitable. A healer can prevent the inevitable.

 

A healer doesn't push and truck through the midst of multiple enemies and keep someone from planting/removing a bomb or capping a node.

 

 

Now if you had the ability to actually do some good with cc or dps while guarding someone, then that would be a different story. But again, a healer can do just as much cc and dps as a guarding immortal jugg.

 

(1) A healer doesn't heal someone else when he's using a CC or doing damage. For that job, we hire someone else.

 

(2) Not to mention a true "healing" build is pathetic in damage and in no way compares to how much damage a well built Jugg/Guardian can deal.

 

(3) A defense build Jugg/Guardian wields two instant-cast stuns, an endless/resource-free AoE snare with no cooldown, a very potent knockback, a melee-range interrupt, a ranged interrupt which is also a gap-closer attack that deals immobilize, as well as can be talented so that it becomes a third stun. If someone cannot make do with this much arsenal in his hands, then that someone would be a very, very bad player.

 

 

I've played all three trees. People want to say immortal has these great uses. It doesn't. It's a niche build for pvp that is 100% reliant on a healer. No different than if you tanked in pve. You are just as weak as any other class with not that many more stuns. Especially once you consider how often people can break stun or absorb it through their own abilities.

 

...which goes on a lot to tell us about just how credible your descriptions about a Jugg/Guardian is.

 

 

PvP comes down to killing things or healing. Being a tad more tanky (which is a fallacy anyway), and having a couple more stuns, doesn't make the immortal tree have any worth in pvp compared to the other two trees which actually accomplish the task of hurting people.

 

Good luck hurting someone through a 30% damage debuff + guard.

Edited February 24, 2012 by kweassa

[Slteath]

I am 31/10 specced Jug. full champion gear with exception of a matrix cube, columni gloves and rakata relic.

 

In the begining of my lvl50 PvP experience, I only get like 3-5 medals, as I progress, I am averaging about 8 medals with highest being 10.

 

I always get the 2,5,10K defense, the 75K damage, 10 kills and killing blow.

 

the 2.5K single hit, comes in once a while, if I am lucky to find a light armor with some debuff on him, then i hit him with crushing blow or vicious slash. (btw, i noticed that even i hit over 2.5K, if the victim doesn't have 2.5K hp left, i don't get the medal)

 

1k defender medals comes in fairly often and 3K usually in void star and more frequent in aldarraen.

 

my guard priority is healer>melee dps>range dps.

 

I use single target taunt when there is only 1, area taunt when 3 or more. smash when there are people surrounding me (i admit that move is for the damage medal).

 

1v1 wise, if both have full hp ( i am not sure about CDs), i have killed every classes, but usually i have to burn my CD to do so. and my win rate is about 50/50.

 

And last but not least, I specced as a tank, so I didn't expect to be able to kill people fast. I understand I am the person who just help to mitigate damage for teammates and help my team with all my abilities. I would Force Charge to an enemy who is attacking my dying teamate and force push him away, just so that my dying friend can run away.