This, for the most part. I know you guys are working your butts off getting this stuff together, and I just want you to know that there's at least one more person who genuinely appreciates the amount of time you guys are putting in on a Friday to get this squared away for us. Wish I could buy a round for all of you.

Why the crap is this thread STILL not stickied, moderators?

Bookmarking this so I don't forget to try it. Intriguing idea.

Keeping mine. If I have to change how I play him to adapt to changes, I will. I didn't need handouts to get him where he is now; I bore through the suck. I'm not gonna stop now.

You're grasping straws now. There are people who do well with Vengeance, just because you're not one of them doesn't mean the class is bad. Also, I have no idea who you are, nor do I care to ask anything about how to play a spec that I don't like to play, when I'm already pretty good at the spec that I do like to play. Stop trying to make yourself feel important. Nobody cares how good you claim that you are, because this post was supposed to be addressing the issue of the OP not getting good DPS out of her Juggernaut. You've instead turned it into a show of how obnoxious you can be about anyone with a different playstyle than your own, despite the fact that different playstyles actually do work. Keep trolling all day for all I care, since you obviously feel that you absolutely must have the last word.

Dead enemies are interrupted by being dead. Kill them and stop worrying. If it's a healer, stun them, kill them, and stop worrying. If they have full resolve, get a bud to help kill them (because several classes have trouble killing a full resolve healer alone), and stop worrying.

You're nit-picking. You're going to get a free re-spec on patch day anyways. The fact that they didn't explicitly type out that you're going to get a free re-spec on patch day like you always have doesn't mean that they don't care. Why does it even matter, since YOU'RE GETTING A FREE RE-SPEC ON PATCH DAY anyways?

It's a 15 second cooldown that can be a game-changer in an appropriate situations, and thus it rendered your argument invalid.

Since those commendations are bound to the character? What would you even do with them if you got them back? Nice try.

Honestly, I have NO idea why you're even concerned with this in the least bit. If you don't like the way your skills pan out after 1.2 patch day, just re-spec for free. It'll be free that day, I'm pretty sure.

Muzzle fluting will sit in the same exact place from what I understand. Also, NOT taking muzzle fluting and Upgraded Arsenal in just about any DPS spec seems unwise to me, even with the current setup. I don't like that we're pigeon-holed into taking anything, but fact of the matter is that it's not gonna change much of anything.

You're looking at this the wrong way, so let me put it this way: "With the upcoming changes, can I still kill things?" That's all that matters.

It's not a channeled spell, it's a spell with an activation time. If it looks like it's being "channeled", it's being spammed. Also, a 1.5 second cast time finishes its cast time at the end of the global cooldown, effectively making it spammable with no cooldown.

yer because a 15 second cooldown ability makes all the difference in PvP:rolleyes: especially one that seems to bounce off bubbles with gay abandon... Force Charge is a 15 second cooldown...

There's this wonderful thing called the Public Test Server... hop on there and see for yourself. If you have to have other people give you logs to figure out whether you can kill things or not, there's something terribly wrong.

That's what I was hoping It's actually extremely easy to work around this then.

Actually, I'm playing a 45 DPS merc (switching between arsenal for 5% of the time, and pyro the other 95%), but I still enjoy the hell out of my vengeance jugg. I like him better than my assassin as well. Vengeance, weak? Then would you care to explain why my damage usually helps my team out? Wanna tell me why people die when they try to 1v1 with me? They're swallowing cyanide pills, aren't they? I knew it You're a weak player, that's all it is. Only person still sticking to his rusty old guns about how "Vengeance is weak b/c all teh dooz on teh forumz sed so 2 me n I bleivd it". The fact that you've said that you whined about the buffs it needs and then over-sold every other class just goes to show that Juggernaut is not the class for you. Move on with your life and leave the real Juggs to help people out.

Just because you don't LIKE the spec doesn't mean it's not good. All you're trying to do is make people angry right now. You're probably pretty skilled with Rage, but can't quite get the hang of Vengeance. I'm pretty skilled with Vengeance, but can't quite get the hang of Rage. It's preference, and both are viable. OP: your problem does sound like it's rotation-related. Both specs can do enough damage to contribute to a team, as well as enough to kill people in PvP.

While that Charge, Push, Charge, Choke is quite impressive and a good way to lock someone down, if you have to blow 4 CC's on one person then you probably shouldn't be fighting that person on your own. May as well use Terrifying Roar and wait for backup. Immortals WILL have somewhat of a tough time with this, but their CC's are like Syphillis and are best shared among several people.

They said the chance to proc has been "significantly" increased though. What this will end up doing is causing a little more autoattacking to keep your CGC DoT fresh and less sustained burst after your first target every 15 seconds or so. I think a new example rotation will be IM>RS>UL>RS for simple damage... Toss in a Det and it'll be something like IM>RS>UL>Det>RS>PS>RS. If I'm not mistaken, you can finish a full unload channel (given that you have a chance to cast for a couple seconds), toss a detonator, and then railshot... Then once the next powershot is finished, it should have been 7.5 seconds since the last particle accel proc. In light of this, I have a question; does the cooldown on the particle accel start counting when it procs, or after the effect ends, either due to wearing off or firing a rail?

It does seem asinine, doesn't it? I thought the same thing when I started rolling pyro. It's okay though, I promise that you won't miss it with all the other tools at your disposal. My merc is now level 45, and I've raised him as a pyro for a vast majority of that time. Its a fun class with a low to moderate amount of challenge in it's playstyle with a lot of damage.

Haha, you said whoring Muppets XD but I agree with this. Only 59.5 valor here (also the "hard way"), and seeing these new 50's who would have put up a good fight of not for crap gear getting even is exciting to me.

Because then how will he complain about not being able to tracer spam for leet damages? And OP: last I checked a 30% damage increase to railshot combined with 20% less armor on the target was NOT small. Go back to Hello Kitty Island Adventure until you can figure out exactly how massive of a damage increase that is.

Pretty sure someone cant be "wrong" about whether theyre fine with something or not, as "I'm fine with this" is an opinion-based statement. You guys keep crying and moaning about how this is the end of the class forever and we're all doomed, but guess what? The developers can change things again if it actually is class-breaking. Stop crying, change your playstyle, and see how Juggs have felt about every previous change except the force charge-push tweak!

Rage is very effective, but I don't like playing it. Like you, I prefer one spec over the other; in my case it's vengeance over rage. I would guess that most people who say rage sucks hopped on a bandwagon that a troll put up.