THE TRUTH: Expertise - Overrated Most Useless Stat

[Rezenith]

Background: I am a Valor 62 Battlemaster Marauder without exploiting any of the Ilum valor farming but from grinding it out - not so fun with all the CC, when I got none, but that's besides the point.

 

Those who don't bother reading, or act smart with 'Expertise is the best stat, l2p'. Don't bother posting, 500k Dmg Huttball, 800k Voidstar and will 1v1 whoever anyday & probably trounce you. But that's all talk, no substance to it unless you're on Darth Malak, so skip the inane stuff and don't post. Oh and tbh probably shouldn't really care.. there's not much else left to do.

 

Full Champion Expertise - 550~

With Relics - 650~

PvP Boost - 11-12%

 

PvE Gear - 1677 Str 1552 End 84% Crit Multi 29% Crit Chance 734-884 Dmg 18020 HP

PvP Gear - 1408 Str 1298 End 81% Crit Multi 26% Crit Chance 688-841 Dmg 15680 HP

 

A person in full PvE would definitely be slightly weaker than someone in full PvP, but that's only slightly because of the 200-300 stat boost and greatly boosted HP.

 

However the fact is that Expertise has a huge amount of DR. Therefore ideally someone would want a mix and match of PvE and PvP pieces because of the huge stat boost in PvE gains.

 

At 346 Expertise (Battlemaster Ear/Implants, 1 Champion Relic, 1 Champion Belt, 2 BM Sabers)

 

I have 8% PvP Bonus. 728-881

 

At 636 Expertise, The PvP Bonus is only 11.8%. Dmg decreases to 688-841.

 

3.8% boost for ~300 Expertise?

 

I enjoy PvP but this is certainly underwhelming, at this rate I find that BM armor is not worth getting at all. I have done some very mild testing and I hit much harder in mix and match versus another player and higher damage output on scoreboard - no healers same people in the same match of Huttball (that's how it works when you play matches consecutively, groups the same people usually).

 

In my view a PvP geared player, especially a Battlemaster should be above someone in PvE gear when fighting against each other. Because both grinded out their gear in their respective fields.

 

But no, someone in Rakata and a few pieces of Champion in their relic slots / accessories would out damage, out stat, and have higher HP than someone in full Battlemaster.

 

TLDR; Full Battlemaster loses out to Full Rakata with some Expertise / PvP gear.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Rezenith

[Evuke]

why is it that the only people saying expertise is rubbish are the people who have it?

 

if it's so useless then let's just remove it from the game!

Edited January 31, 2012 by Evuke

[Rezenith]

3 words. Learn to read. Edited January 31, 2012 by Rezenith

[Osium]

wrong, expertise is the best pvp stat in the game.

 

the only people saying it's rubbish are the people who have it, funny that.

 

and if you're a full bm losing to a pve geared player you really need to go back to WoW.

 

No, he is actually absolutely spot on.

 

Expertise hits hard DR. Expertise is useful up to about 7%-8%, after that high end PvE gear remodded is a better min/max approach.

 

At all tiers, a mix of PvP and PvE armor will serve you better, higher HP, higher crit, higher bonus damage, higher surge, higher everything while only giving up 3-5% expertise.

[KyoMamoru]

Step 1) Get Battle Master Gear.

Step 2) Get Rakata Gear.

Step 3) ?????

Step 4) Profit.

 

Hint: We have the ability to remove and add modifications for a reason. The initial enhancements/mods might not match your playstyle, so change them. Once everyone has sets of both, you're going to have individuals that have BM gear with all the best T3 mods that they can fit into them, leading to 'Tier Four' PVP gear.

Edited January 31, 2012 by KyoMamoru

[Dovahbrah]

wrong, expertise is the best pvp stat in the game.

 

the only people saying it's rubbish are the people who have it, funny that.

 

and if you're a full bm losing to a pve geared player you really need to go back to WoW.

 

Your posting tokens have been taken away.

[LordiMordi]

Thats what i came up for too. Was happy to realize i didnt have to use that crappy "fantasy-witch-accident-equip" to get the best results in pvp

But whats the exact point where expertise becomes useless? ATM i just change my robe so i can keep my 2nd setbonus for healing (meh would love to get rid of those t-rex cuffs o.o).

[Abadus]

I run 2 piece Columni over 2 of my centurion peices because I lost 1% pvp from 11% to 10% and gained 3-6% other stats. Well worth the trade. Agreed even some of those in my guild that are hard core pvp don't believe me when i say it. then again they don't have any pve gear yet to test it against.

 

I totally agree with you. With diminishing returns it is better to go 500 expertise and stack other stats.

 

Pre release they talked about how customizable their gear would be. sadly the mods and armor enhancements I want are not around. You get what they give you and that is it. too bad everything has alacrity. As a madness sorc that stat is almost useless.

[Barrechor]

wrong, expertise is the best pvp stat in the game.

 

the only people saying it's rubbish are the people who have it, funny that.

 

and if you're a full bm losing to a pve geared player you really need to go back to WoW.

 

WOW, didnt think anyone would rush in with such a clueless comment...

 

OP is very much right in what he is saying.

[darthtoph]

No, he is actually absolutely spot on.

 

Expertise hits hard DR. Expertise is useful up to about 7%-8%, after that high end PvE gear remodded is a better min/max approach.

 

He is (somewhat) right about that part but stating that Expertise is "overrated" and the "most useless stat" = all validation went out the window. He even proved it himself by listing miscellaneous amounts of Expertise and their percentage yield/return.

 

While Expertise scales badly, it is by no mean "useless." That's just noob talk.

 

Edit: And I have no idea why the OP listed 15k as his PvP health. As a Battlemaster Sentinel (mirror class) I have pretty much the same stats yet 17.5k HP. Close to 17k in modded Champion gear alone. Something doesn't add up.

 

Actually, I think I got more damage too (not ingame atm). Like said, something doesn't add up.

Edited January 31, 2012 by darthtoph

[JingleHell]

Yeah, Expertise is most useful up to about 8.5% Much higher and you're sacrificing other stats on badly diminishing returns. Going from ~350 to ~450 loses me a pile of strength and endurance for ~1% PvP gains.

[HeCTiCLOB]

What about the fact that expertise also reduces damage taken? Does your cute little calculation take that into consideration?

[Dee-Jay]

I guess the OP rolled with the provocative title to grab attention.

 

And I dare say it worked.

 

Essentially what he is saying is that harsh DR on Expertise render the stat pretty useless when compared to PvE gear stat-gains. It makes sense and i was unaware Expertise was under such harsh DR.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[Dovahbrah]

What about the fact that expertise also reduces damage taken? Does your cute little calculation take that into consideration?

 

/facepalm

[HeCTiCLOB]

What about the fact that expertise also reduces damage taken? Does your cute little calculation take that into consideration?

[JingleHell]

What about the fact that expertise also reduces damage taken? Does your cute little calculation take that into consideration?

 

Yes, it does. Because the % gained is the same for all three things Exp affects. And once you get past a certain point, the itemization loss on Endurance is WAY worse than 1% less damage taken.

 

IIRC, I'd lose close to 1k HP to pick up that damage reduction. 1% less damage, off 20k HP is around 200 effective health, unless I'm more tired than I realize.

[AidenPryde]

Yes, it does. Because the % gained is the same for all three things Exp affects. And once you get past a certain point, the itemization loss on Endurance is WAY worse than 1% less damage taken.

 

IIRC, I'd lose close to 1k HP to pick up that damage reduction. 1% less damage, off 20k HP is around 200 effective health, unless I'm more tired than I realize.

 

So would a valid strat be to get BM gear for the set bonus (4 pieces) and the rest Columi/rakata?

Edited January 31, 2012 by AidenPryde

[LegionAlpha]

So would a valid strat be to get BM gear for the set bonus (4 pieces) and the rest Columi/rakata?

 

yes.

 

Here's something to chew on though for anyone looking for another twist to this EXP system. I am a BM assassin with the DPS Stalker gear. I have the BM stalker ear piece, 2 implants, and the stalker chest piece, while everything else is champion gear. I am also tank spec at the moment. For this i switch on champion survivor robe legs, earpiece, helmet, and gloves while the rest remains dps gear. My HP differs by about 800 i would say when switching to the tank gear mentioned. However, in this tank gear setup i have with my spec i am pretty unstoppable in hutball. Not bragging or saying im the best, blah blah, im just pointing out a fact that i am very hard to kill as in my health does not drain as quickly as i thought it should.

 

I would like to point out though that i did notice a significant difference when i put in my BM implants, earpiece and chestpiece on from my champion gear (DPS gear swap out) in warzones. I took far less damage, surviveability was increased greatly and this is all while having DPS gear with a tank spec. It kind of makes me think more indepth about how does this expertise system work? Is that 1%-2% from 300 exp worth it or not? I believe it is not but however testing this does not seem to indicate that as even going up against someone with Rakata and champ gear mix still not stand a chance (assassin v assassin).

 

I think bioware should make a clear cut statement about what actually are the benefits of exp as no1 really seems to be able to grasp it. And if the case is that it is supposed to give huge advantages in warzones over using the pve gear, then i would say buff up the pvp gear a little more because it is kind of sad to see a full rakata person smash a BM in a warzone as if its nothing because they are stacking ridiculous endurance and base stat over exp which should in theory provide far more than the said rakata bonus in pvp.

[Caribroo]

It's not useless, it's a PvP specific reward for PvPing.

 

You cray cray for not understanding the above statement in it's entirety.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Caribroo

[Ashanor]

yes.

 

Here's something to chew on though for anyone looking for another twist to this EXP system. I am a BM assassin with the DPS Stalker gear. I have the BM stalker ear piece, 2 implants, and the stalker chest piece, while everything else is champion gear. I am also tank spec at the moment. For this i switch on champion survivor robe legs, earpiece, helmet, and gloves while the rest remains dps gear. My HP differs by about 800 i would say when switching to the tank gear mentioned. However, in this tank gear setup i have with my spec i am pretty unstoppable in hutball. Not bragging or saying im the best, blah blah, im just pointing out a fact that i am very hard to kill as in my health does not drain as quickly as i thought it should.

 

I would like to point out though that i did notice a significant difference when i put in my BM implants, earpiece and chestpiece on from my champion gear (DPS gear swap out) in warzones. I took far less damage, surviveability was increased greatly and this is all while having DPS gear with a tank spec. It kind of makes me think more indepth about how does this expertise system work? Is that 1%-2% from 300 exp worth it or not? I believe it is not but however testing this does not seem to indicate that as even going up against someone with Rakata and champ gear mix still not stand a chance (assassin v assassin).

 

I think bioware should make a clear cut statement about what actually are the benefits of exp as no1 really seems to be able to grasp it. And if the case is that it is supposed to give huge advantages in warzones over using the pve gear, then i would say buff up the pvp gear a little more because it is kind of sad to see a full rakata person smash a BM in a warzone as if its nothing because they are stacking ridiculous endurance and base stat over exp which should in theory provide far more than the said rakata bonus in pvp.

 

Agreed.

[hepster]

This is why I still come to the PvP forums. Hidden in all the garbage posts from time to time a decent post like this comes along. Bookmarked for later review, and thank you for the information.

[Vladar]

Step 1) Get Battle Master Gear.

Step 2) Get Rakata Gear.

Step 3) ?????

Step 4) Profit.

 

Hint: We have the ability to remove and add modifications for a reason. The initial enhancements/mods might not match your playstyle, so change them. Once everyone has sets of both, you're going to have individuals that have BM gear with all the best T3 mods that they can fit into them, leading to 'Tier Four' PVP gear.

 

Kyo makes a very good point in the hint portion of his post.

[Incomprehensible]

I'm actually glad to hear this.

 

I'm a level 42 Sorcerer with a little over 100 expertise, so 3% pvp bonus.

 

It seems to make a pretty big difference, especially at the level I'm at where I'm mostly fighting people running around in PvE green/blues.

 

All in all at the moment I'm running roughly:

3%pvp

30%crit

60 or 70% multi from surge, got tired last night and really don't remember which implants/mods I ended up slotting, surge or power, I was going back and forth.

 

 

I've already had to start playing the DR balancing act with Crit/surge vs will/power, as you can see from my fuzzy memory of my surge, I know I left crit right around 30%, going higher was too costly in my base heal numbers.

 

I can have probably 150ish expertise by 45, I'm guessing that would be 4%... sadly from there, unless they unlock the item components from the level 50 pvp gear again, I'm pretty much stuck waiting on the non moddable pvp items to fill slots and start increasing expertise again.

 

For now I'd say the main difference that I see is with survivability from the pvp stat, the 3% reduced damage and bonus heal is the equivilent of something like 6 points of talents being simulated by gear. I notice that I can keep myself standing through a lot more, if I'm focused on doing so, I'm still a squishy healer, but if my healign is self focused I'm not made of toilet paper any more.

[Muzzynator]

You are pretty much wrong here.

 

Yes PVE T3 > PVP T3

 

but what you do not understand expertise not only boosts your dmg against players, but also REDUCES dmg from them. It is two fold.

 

So yes it is a 10-11% gain in dmg but go ahead fight a full T3 PVP player with your full rakata. that 10% is more like 20%.

 

expertise works against people who do not have it, hence expertise serves its purpose as a PVP stat.

[Dignam]

You are pretty much wrong here.

 

Yes PVE T3 > PVP T3

 

but what you do not understand expertise not only boosts your dmg against players, but also REDUCES dmg from them. It is two fold.

 

So yes it is a 10-11% gain in dmg but go ahead fight a full T3 PVP player with your full rakata. that 10% is more like 20%.

 

expertise works against people who do not have it, hence expertise serves its purpose as a PVP stat.

 

 

Except you can not read. he never said go without any exp. If you get to around 8% you will not be far behind someone who is in full pvp gear but you will have far more base stats than they do.