Darkness - soo OP right now. Here's why any other spec isnt nearly as good:

[Sabbathius]

looking at the two specs i dont see how its THAT big of a difference.

 

it looks like claws of decay and raze with deathfield vs wither and harnessed darkness.

 

Raze allows Crushing Darkness to be cast FREE and instant, and resets its cooldown, which is a huge DPS boost. And finally, Haunted Dreams allows you to instantly take one player out of the equation for up to 8 seconds, or force him to burn a trinket.

 

That's AMAZING compared to a loss of Harnessed Darkness and Wither. I mean, let's face it, Wither damage even with 3 points next to Harnessed Darkness is just pathetic. Utility is there, definitely, but the loss of DPS is just too much. When/if Wither starts to proc Harnessed Darkness like tooltip says, things might change though. But I doubt it. Too many good things in that hybrid.

 

EDIT: Although...you do bring up an interesting point. Do Harnessed Shadows+Wither outweigh Death Field and Raze?

 

Harnessed Shadows IS nice. But prone to CC. All too often I start casting my 3x HD Force Lightning, and eat a knockback or some other CC. Half the time it's not even intended for me. But bye bye goes the 3-stack. Though in a 1v1 you should be able to get it off no problem, just Spike before using Force Lightning and you're golden.

 

Wither? Damage doesn't impress me. 30% slow is nice, but not stunning, with 50% I'd take it in a heartbeat. The 5% damage reduction? Again, nice. Not thrilling, but nice.

 

Question is, how does that compare to instant Crushing Darkness, which is a 30% proc chance off melee crits, likelihood of which is increased 9% by Force crits, which are guaranteed from Shock with Energize, which is a 50% proc off Thrash?

 

I mean, first you have Thrash. 50% chance of Energize.

When Energize procs, you Shock. 100% chance of crit.

Crit procs Exploitive Strikes, +9% chance of crit.

Then you do some melee strikes and hope they crit, and hope one of the crits has a 1 in 3 chance to give you Raze.

 

That's a LOT of "if"s. What if your Thrash doesn't proc Energize? I had chains of 4-6 Thrashes without Energize. And that's just one example. Where Wither is guaranteed. Press a button, off it goes. Shock, you get HD.

 

Madness seems to be very, VERY proc-dependent. Get a lucky string, and you blow things up. Get a string of bad luck, and you could be hitting for a whole lot less than 31 Darkness.

 

I'll admit I have a soft spot for Haunted Dreams, since the time I played my Sorcerer.

 

Tsk. What I wouldn't give for a combat log...C'mon Bioware!

Edited January 31, 2012 by Sabbathius

[AnariussX]

i hate to be the first to mention that chain lightning is a sorcerer ability, and talented btw. Also as far as i can tell (just looked quick) chain lightning also doesn't grant you health, even with talents (i just looked quick i may have missed something).

 

Chain lightning is available to the assassin also, (its an inquisitor attack) and it does heal 12% with 3 shocks up on the target. It still isn't great because of how long it takes to get 3 shocks up.

[Kauhu]

All I can say is "<insert your favorite deity> forbid that tanks actually have a role besides dishing out damage in PvP".

 

It's not like you can kill anything fast enough for it to matter AND game is not balanced around 1v1.

[Sabbathius]

Chain lightning is available to the assassin also, (its an inquisitor attack) and it does heal 12% with 3 shocks up on the target. It still isn't great because of how long it takes to get 3 shocks up.

 

You mean Force Lightning. Chain Lightning is a Sorcerer-only talent in Lightning tree. That's why he's correcting you.

[DarthCnox]

Deception doesnt hav synergy with darkness? check this spec

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrskbskbZhRrMk.1

 

I realize it doesn't have wither but you never run out or force with dark swell and dark embrace and the bonus damage from maul procs fixes our damage problems a bit oh and check this one too i call it shockmoarbrah

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrsk0cZhRrMzZf0c.1

 

shock all over the place with this one ya you dont have as much survivability as the other one but it again is great with force AND COME ON WHO DOESN'T LOVE SHOCK

 

 

also wither is just kinda meh imo

 

I have tried both these, and I have found darkness/deception superior to darkness/madness due to the force starvation of trying to capitalize on those auto-crit shocks.

 

You sorta need blackout to keep things rolling, and the chain shock damage loss is mitiaged by the ability to cast more shocks at 100% crit chance (which you should be stacking surge on your gear). Add to that the force cost reduction you get with induction. Add to that, add to that, your recklessness charges will be burned up 2 times for a sucessfull chain shock. You really want to only have reckessness give you added damage to your shock (the main one, not the 50% one reduced) or the force lightning (i think you get more damage bonus with 3 stacks of harnessed darkness).

Edited January 31, 2012 by DarthCnox

[DarthCnox]

You mean Force Lightning. Chain Lightning is a Sorcerer-only talent in Lightning tree. That's why he's correcting you.

 

Chain Shock is available to assassins in madness. It gives 15/30/45% chance to cast a second shock for free (automatic-instant) for 50% damage.

 

Requires at least 8 points in the madness line in order to get it, however, which makes it impossible to get chain lighting with induction and the darness ability that has thrash/vs proc a free shock.

 

That's why your 2 main choices for this sort of play is darkness up to harness darkness with induction, or darkness up to the full tree with chain shock.

 

Edit: oops, sorry, that's 'Chain Shock'. I have made the edit above.

Edited January 31, 2012 by DarthCnox

[Arnathis]

As a rank 59 full champ geared sin I can tell you if you want to feel OP in PVP run the 23/18 spec. Nothing is hard for me to kill, I can survive a OP opener and their burst pop a rakata med pack and them proceed to kill them. I feel pretty invincible and my team mates and the republics are always commenting about it during pvp matches.

 

If you want to do great DPS and have a pocket healer run a full deception spec, but if you don't have a healer you are too squishy unless you are sneaking around looking for single targets or half dead targets and have no intention on trying to do objectives to win.

 

If you want to live forever, be completely ignored by your enemies and hit with a Wiffle Ball Bat do a full Darkness Build.

 

TL;DR if you want to be OP run 23/18 everything else is meh!

 

I'd like to try this build out, do you have a link to it? Are you talking about the 23/0/18 build in the forum sticky?

[Caelrie]

As a rank 59 full champ geared sin I can tell you if you want to feel OP in PVP run the 23/18 spec.

 

Is that 23/18/0 or 23/0/18?

 

Edit: NM, I see it answered later.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Caelrie

[shadowAI]

nm waste of time. Edited February 1, 2012 by shadowAI

[themendios]

Outside of IA snipers it might be the best class atm.

 

As a 50 sniper & 34 assassin, I know this is either a troll post or the thoughts of someone sub50 and/or completely clueless.

 

Snipers are rough as hell in PvP and though they are incredibly awesome in PvE simply because aggro mechanics let you continue to beat on things they only bring marginally more damage than a merc or sorc without the added utility.

 

Also, I am a tankassin and while my assassin is 20x the fun of my sniper in PvP, there's no OP involved, because it takes 10x as long to kill anything.

 

It's a flavor of tank, nothing more nothing less. The flavor I prefer, to be sure, but know that Powertechs and Juggernauts have similar abilities (and I played a Powertech to 34 already).

Edited February 1, 2012 by themendios

[XParoleX]

I'd like to try this build out, do you have a link to it? Are you talking about the 23/0/18 build in the forum sticky?

 

Yes its the 23/0/18 build sorry was at work and hurried to post. I have tried most build types and this by far in my experience is hands down the best!

Edited February 1, 2012 by XParoleX

[YanksfanJP]

Three Questions:

 

1) I'm interested in trying the 23/0/18 build (i've leveled my Assassin to 44 just as Deception). Should I be using dps gear or tank gear once I reach 50 and have access to the PVP gear?

 

2) What is my general "playstyle" going to be like? SAince I've only been Deception, 23/0/18 requiring me playing two new trees, I'm going to have access to a lot of abilities I never had before and want to make sure I know what I should be using and what I should not be using.

 

3) Should I be wary about the Raze tooltip change meaning that it will eventually make its way into the talent itself and not be able to 23/0/18 anymore?

 

Thanks for the help

Edited February 1, 2012 by YanksfanJP

[Sabbathius]

3) Should I be wary about the Raze tooltip change meaning that it will eventually make its way into the talent itself and not be able to 23/0/18 anymore?

 

You probably should, yes. At least all signs so far point to the hybrid being killed, probably as soon as the next major patch. Don't go through the trouble of gearing up and learning a new build, as it may be dead in a month.

[Narenekapcazic]

have tried 31/0/10, 27/0/14 and 23/0/18 and still can't make up my mind which I prefer.

 

Without accurate parsers it's pretty much impossible to say which does the best damage overall.

 

Shock is the same for all 3

 

31/0/10 has no deathfield but has wither. The damage is not substantially less than deathfield (around 2-300) but has a lower re-use time. It's less burst than deathfield but over a sustained period it's more damage. Harnessed darkness is a hard hitter and for me trumps Raze by a margin. It might take a little setup but raze is very unpredictable and even with 40% crit (50 with buffs) it's only a 16% chance of getting the proc, so it's very possible to go a long period without it. Also given the current UI it's such a bloody pain to spot the proc sometimes.

 

23/0/18 has extra thrash damage which is lovely and the reverse of the points above.

 

It's difficult to say which has most damage or burst because both have areas where they trump the other, but conversely have area's they lose to each other.

 

Instant whirlwind in 23/0/18 is lovely and can turn those 2 v 1 fights very effectively. Wither has the snare which can be god like in hutt ball along with the damage reduction and is better IMO in the bigger fights. each form of control has it's strong points and it's probably personal taste as to which ones better for you.

 

 

27/0/14 is the one that takes the best damage bits of both specs above but loses their control options. It's probably the highest damage and burst of the 3 specs but has less ability to control a fight

[Grogget]

With the tried and true 31/0/10 build, I dunno...

 

I've been playing around with TORhead and I've come up with this build, a 31/10/0 build:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIrozrskdsZhGb.1

 

I've not tried it out personally yet, but I think it might be one to at least consider. Reason being is that Maul is one of the Deception assassin's hardest hitting moves, and the 31/0/10 makes it essentially useless... why not make it useful again by adding those points into Duplicity (50% chance to ignore targets armor and cost 50 less force) so that its useful again?

 

Basically, its your standard darkness build specced all the way to Wither - same gameplay style with Harnessed Darkness and Force Lightning, just that you have Maul as a useful skill again rather than it being one of those, "oh lets trash it because it costs too much force" type of thing.

 

Another thing is I put the two points into Dark Embrace for the force regeneration in stealth since Insulation is useless as you're going to be using Dark Charge instead of Lightning Charge or Surging Charge, which the latter won't even be available to this build. And since you also have the Blood of Sith maxed out in the Darkness tree, your force will be recharging pretty damn fast.

 

And with the remaining points put into Obfuscation (+3 stealth level and 15% increased stealth movement speed) and Avoidance for the 30s reduced CD of Unbreakable will, you'll be a damage dealing stealthy tank that anyone would be hard pressed to stop. To me, it seems like it gets about 60% of the Deception build (7/34/0) benefits, while maintaining the survivability of the darkness build, and retaining the increased stealthiness of a true assassin.

 

Thoughts? Comments?

Edited May 29, 2012 by Grogget

[Chemic_al]

Darkness Sins are not balanced at all, they have too many dps talents for a 'tank' tree, and they are perfectly capable of taking on 2 opponents at a time and winning.

 

If the trees were rejigged, deception needs buffing, I always found voltaic slash drains force too fast, if a tree needed Blood of Sith it's this one, not darkness. And Low Slash is weak seeing how Darkness tree can use spike out of stealth - I mean seriously?

 

And yeah in PvP without dark charge - you will die waaay too quickly, so you're forced into that charge.

 

But meh, nothing will change, class imbalance is rife now and they keep nerfing classes that don't need it.

[Sookster]

Screw darkness because I <3 madness, 9 out of 10 assassins I see are darkness.

 

I have both columi/rakata sets of survivor and stalker gear, did darkness to tank for HM/operations when there were no tanks available and wore my stalker gear in pvp with it and it still does ridiculous damage for a tank role. All I have to say is darkness is one of the easiest specs to play, pretty much a beginner's spec, I end up going back to madness as my main role because it does more damage but is more difficult to play.

 

I have all 3 tank capable classes at 50, all geared and assassin make the best tank in tank gear hands down, with 48% absorption and dark ward going all the time along with a 365 shield amplification (absorb proc) relic every 20 seconds (goes to 65% absorb) it's ridiculous. My jugg with BETTER gear than my assassin doesn't tank that well.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Sookster

[Bpotux]

i use this spec

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrkkrskbsZbZf0c.1

 

20% chance to proc EW is worth 2 points. I find Wither to be better than 50% crit multiplier on thrash. Harnessed Darkness heal and dmg increase at 3 stacks is very good wth recklessness and +9% crit proc from madness tree, throw in single relic that gives crit + surge and you will look a 1300 crits eah second by FL in tank spec.

 

 

1300 rofl.

 

Fried a guy for 2045 a tick yesterday...

 

<.<

>.>

 

o_O

 

Also, why do you have Dark Ward in a pvp spec?

Edited May 30, 2012 by Bpotux

[Astarica]

Pretty sure I had FL break 2500/tick one time when I found a Sage with no expertise, though those guys are hard to find.

 

1000/tick is pretty good damage against equal gear Marauder or higher class defense character (i.e. Marauder, you, and other pure tanks). You can get some really crazy numbers on light armor guys even when they're equally geared as you.

[Werdan]

Deception doesnt hav synergy with darkness? check this spec

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrskbskbZhRrMk.1

 

I realize it doesn't have wither but you never run out or force with dark swell and dark embrace and the bonus damage from maul procs fixes our damage problems a bit oh and check this one too i call it shockmoarbrah

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrsk0cZhRrMzZf0c.1

 

shock all over the place with this one ya you dont have as much survivability as the other one but it again is great with force AND COME ON WHO DOESN'T LOVE SHOCK

 

 

also wither is just kinda meh imo

 

As to the first build...

-Dark Ward is terrible and has no place for a DPS geared Sin who SHOULD be wearing a focus. Put that point in Premonition as a filler.

-I don't know how you did it but you bugged the skill tree somehow as you can't get Induction without getting Surging Charge first.

-I'd probably drop Avoidance and pick up another 2 points in Obfuscation.

-Overall not bad, but not being able to get Induction makes this build pointless. Even if you did pick up Surging Charge, you wouldn't be able to get the benefits of Induction anyway while running Dark Charge.

 

As to the second build...

-Dark Ward again? See above.

-Avoidance? See Above.

-Darkswell vs Deceptive Power is a bit of a toss up.

-Same issue as above with Induction. It's just not possible to get without SC.

 

Wither isn't bad and can do some decent damage. As an AOE slow it's fantastic for keeping players away from door/node caps or in Pitball on either defense or offense. I love this ability in PvE.

 

This build removes Wither yet retains the Shock skills while giving Thrash a little boost in the process. It also gives players a reason to use Maul more often (I use it in my rotation) at a reduced cost. I'll be giving this build a test run the next time I log in.

 

Is Darkness OP? I honestly don't think so. I think there are some very good PvPer's that are facerolling baddies and making it look worse than what it actually is. For every good Darkness player, there are easily 3-4x as many bad ones. I've seen good Deception players absolutely steamroll WZ's but they are few and far between. I really enjoy Assassin. It was one of those classes I never got around to finishing in beta and now that I did I feel it should have been my first character over BH Merc (which I don't even play anymore) for launch. Either way, nerf or not, I'll still play the class even if it means I have to respec or, as we're doing with these builds, see what skills fit where to create a new spec.

[Payneintherear]

-I don't know how you did it but you bugged the skill tree somehow as you can't get Induction without getting Surging Charge first.

 

Perhaps that's because you can't in fact get Induction without Surging Charge...

 

Surging charge has been a requirement for Induction for a long time.

[Dhariq]

It's not so much as Darkness being flat out overpowered as opposed to the fact that you pretty much die instantly if you're not in Dark Charge so it really doesn't matter if you do more DPS in another spec because you're still dead. Deception has the least synergy with Darkness and suffers the most. Most Madness hybrids still use Dark Charge, instead of Lightning Charge even though Madness leans toward dots.

 

I also think this is the fact here. A light armoured mdps kinda needs to do alot more damage than other dps to be able to compete and right now they are just on par which by default makes them close to bad.

[Netzgeist]

Seems to be the right topic for my quick question:

 

Looking at 23/0/18, I simply dont see the point. You guys are saying you trade hd+wither for crushing darkness+raze+death field. But Raze needs a lightning charge to proc at all, so you would lose various other stuff related to dark charge. So is the tooltip wrong or are you really playing 23/0/18 with lightning charge?

[Pestulan]

Seems to be the right topic for my quick question:

 

Looking at 23/0/18, I simply dont see the point. You guys are saying you trade hd+wither for crushing darkness+raze+death field. But Raze needs a lightning charge to proc at all, so you would lose various other stuff related to dark charge. So is the tooltip wrong or are you really playing 23/0/18 with lightning charge?

 

I've always thought that as well. And, if you're using Lightning charge, there are a number of Dark Charge talents in Darkness that aren't being skipped in the builds I've seen. *shrug* I'm liking 31/0/10 just fine.

[Sookster]

yeah raze doesn't mix well with that hybrid, you have to be in lightning charge for that box to work. Why not 23/1/17.