AsheraII Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I've been swapping mods in and out of my blasters and armor since level 15....is there a max level of mod that can be put in them? I only ask because of the level 30 thing you mentioned. No, you can keep upgrading orange gear all the way to levelcap. So that's why you pick the orange gear that you feel to suit your character best cosmetically, and upgrade it with mods. A lvl 29 Agent SHOULD have an orange jacket by level 17 already, since it's a mission reward. Meaning, a lvl 29 Agent SHOULD have kept his orange jacket upto date and have lvl 27-29 mods in his jacket. Meaning, to a lvl 29 Agent, another lvl 29 Jacket should mostly be a COSMETIC upgrade as well. Meaning, a lvl 29 Agent has the same reason to roll need on an orange lvl 29 Jacket that a lvl 29 Marauder has: it's a COSMETIC improvement to his or her character. If it's more than a cosmetic upgrade to the agent, than that agent has been slacking or throwing away gear, and he most probably won't care about the jackets' looks either and throw it away as well within 2 levels. The Marauder who rolls for the jacket because of its cosmetics obviously won't be so quick to throw it away. He'd take care to keep it upgraded instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Because noone cares about appearance when they participate in social activities... I could care less for your petty narcissism. Looks aint everything my friend. Before level 50, there is no "need". You are going to outlevel anything you find except for orange gear, and you can succeed at levelling without any particular piece of loot. Anything you ran before lv 50 can be run again ..and again ....and again. You have many opportunities to gain that special "look" you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fainthftk Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 4. Doesn't care - "It's only a game!" They are partiality right but their is a culture of proper looting. Improving ones character is part of that game experience and they are ruining that experience for the rest of us. That would be me then, i roll need on stuff that my toon or one of my crew can use and would improve it. Also i just dont answer to mile long discussion about it. Its useless. I need what i need and dont let others define what that would be. Usualy i just take what drops on my feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I think rolling for appearance is perfectly valid on an RP server. For those of you on non-RP servers, appearance rolling may be less important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Before level 50, there is no "need". then why roll "need"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Your view or opinions do not invalidate someone elses just because you feel you're right or decent or whatnot. This has nothing to do with who feels more "entitled" to the gear than the other people in the group, it's all about who needs it because it's an upgrade and who needs it because they like the look. Group content makes you have to rely on the other people in your group being up to snuff, being upgraded, learned their abilities and being able to use them. It's much like taking a trip to the North Pole with a friend. If one of you gets sick, cold, injured, doesn't eat enough, drink enough etc. Then you will both suffer because you or your friend will end up slowing you all down, and risk both of your lives. If your polar-trip friend needs a new jacket to be able to survive through the harsh environment, and you two go to the store and you find one. You have a red jacket at home, but this one is BLUE (awesome!). It's the exact same jacket that you have, just in a different color. You have to leave in 30 minutes so you have to decide quick: Is it better for your friend to stay warm and healthy, or for you too look sexy but end up slowing down and risking the life of your duo? I told this story to my 3 nephews (who were all 4 years old) and even they understood it. If you have trouble understanding it now, you won't be able to get far in this game. Just sayin'. Common courtesy and function over fashion, in cohesion with "always consider the greater good", should be a prerequisite to even be allowed to create an account for an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenthorn Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 but, keep "your" morals to your self, the world doesn't revolve around you, you do not and will not ever dictate how another player rolls on items, BW makes the rules, not you, ever, if they let any class roll need, that is the rule, end of discussion, anything else is your problem, it is you, not the other players, not BW, YOU have the problem, go QQ elsewhere, I do not care, you do not decide what I can and cannot use/wear/roll name my toon whatever accept it, but you do not have to like it, but you will live with it, or just walk away, cancelling your account is easy I have heard, have a good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 They are partiality right but their is a culture of proper looting. Improving ones character is part of that game experienceI think most people on this thread generally agree that improving one's character is important. The disagreement (outside of some radical few on both sides) seems to be around what exactly is an improvement? The Rules of WoW (and probably some other games, but I suspect that WoW is the one that most applies) state that you should roll "need" on things that upgrade your character and "greed" on things you are going to sell it, give to someone else (like a friend or alt) or just like the look. "Appearance" items are ones that you would wear in town, because the stats are probably not right or it is the wrong armor class. As far as I know, WoW didn't have companions or orange gear -- therefore the Rules of WoW don't specifically cover them. They are new elements. If you primarily focus on the stats of an item, you might consider orange gear to be the same as any other gear. Therefore, if the stats are not for your class, you shouldn't roll on it. This, however, doesn't consider that the stat could be correct if I pop my current mods into it. I could use the orange gear until the end of the game -- the mods will be outleveled soon. Therefore, I posit that orange gear is a special case that requires discussion as to its place in the "loot hierarchy". I am ambivalent on this one. Similarly, WoW did not have gearable companions. The "Rules of WoW" don't mention them. From what I can tell, there are two camps -- those that slot companions in under the category of "alt", and those that consider them to additional gear slots on the character sheet. If you don't solo and spend all of your time in warzones, maybe upgrading your companion isn't important to you. If you do solo or are on a PVP server, upgrading companions (especially tank and dps companions) can be very important. Therefore, I posit that gearing companions is a special case that requires discussion as to its place in the "loot hierarchy". If your companion is an "alt", then you should press "greed". If he is a gearable part of your character, then you should press "need". To me, an upgrade to my companion is an upgrade to my character (often more than an upgrade to my main character would be). Adding an addition loot button labeled "Need for Companion" should satisfy most of the people here. Some people have also raised the "it is an upgrade if it helps your performance in the group". This is problematic as it would mean you could roll on anything on the final boss (since the group is breaking up). What about weapons that a healer could use but wouldn't use while they are grouping? Discussion on this one may be appropriate, but I don't think there is any consensus on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 but, keep "your" morals to your self, the world doesn't revolve around you, you do not and will not ever dictate how another player rolls on items, BW makes the rules, not you, ever, if they let any class roll need, that is the rule, end of discussion, anything else is your problem, it is you, not the other players, not BW, YOU have the problem, go QQ elsewhere, I do not care, you do not decide what I can and cannot use/wear/roll name my toon whatever accept it, but you do not have to like it, but you will live with it, or just walk away, cancelling your account is easy I have heard, have a good day spoken like a true narcisist ...have fun being lonely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) then why roll "need"?I would prefer that there be no "need" button -- gear should just be randomly distributed (outside of bind-on-pickup items). But there is a "need" button, so some discussion of when to press and when not to press it is appropriate. I'd be happy with: If you are going to sell it, press "greed" If you are going to use it, press "need" Edited January 28, 2012 by sjmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I would prefer that there be no "need" button -- gear should just be randomly distributed. But there is a "need" button, so some discussion of when to press and when not to press it is appropriate. I'd be happy with: If you are going to sell it, press "greed" If you are going to use it, press "need" Yes, this sounds like a great idea. My Vanguard can get the Sage's gear and vice-versa. Who cares, because we're just going to out-level it anyway, right?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I would prefer that there be no "need" button -- gear should just be randomly distributed. But there is a "need" button, so some discussion of when to press and when not to press it is appropriate. I'd be happy with: If you are going to sell it, press "greed" If you are going to use it, press "need" I can agree with that to a point. They can get rid of the need button and just boil it down to "roll" or "pass" for all I care. That would give everyone an equal roll wheter they need an item or not. Personally I'd rather they restricted the "need" roll to primary stat + armor type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronamo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Ultimately, the only loot rules that apply are the ones that you, as a group, discuss beforehand and agree to abide by. The idea that there is a universal understanding of loot distribution has been thrown on its ear, and not just by the discussion in this, and the previous thread, nor by the introduction of gearable companions. However, the mechanical solution the playerbase has been granted by Bioware employs two very specific terms on the buttons which classify the random numbers used to assign the loot -- need and greed. Regardless of the opinions seen in this thread about who should or should not be allowed to roll on gear, the two terms have very specific meanings. I would add as well that rolling greed is not being excluded from the opportunity to roll. Without knowing beforehand whether another member of your group will be rolling need, you cannot claim that rolling greed excludes you from the chance to win the item -- only that there is a chance that you will be. Ideally, I would prefer that players choose to defer vanity to utility, with utility being defined as the augmentation of class appropriate stats for the player characters first, player companions second if so agreed by the group. Rolls for vanity or vendoring would be the ultimate priority (read: last, not most important). Vanity items are not a necessity. They are a luxury. That there is a necessity that your character or their active companion appear a certain way is in no way supported by the mechanics of the game. As can be demonstrated by the Republic Dancer's outfit, a character can be practically naked and still perform their duties, with the exception of medium and heavy armor users suffering from a reduced armor rating. I would also argue from the perspective of the game designers that by design certain pieces of gear are intended for certain classes through appearance, not only stats, though they may be used by others. The primary function served by this is that of silhouetting, or making player characters distinctly distinguishable on the battlefield. It was a very important design decision to the team that worked on Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, and it is common knowledge that part of that team was tapped for the design of SWTOR as well. Does that mean that nobody else should ever use a piece of gear designed for class X? No. The designers' intention does not mandate the use, but instead only strongly suggests it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I can agree with that to a point. They can get rid of the need button and just boil it down to "roll" or "pass" for all I care. That would give everyone an equal roll wheter they need an item or not. Personally I'd rather they restricted the "need" roll to primary stat + armor type. Actually it would be best if there was no button at all. Because, if people are going to Need on gear they don't Need, why have a Need button anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yes, this sounds like a great idea. My Vanguard can get the Sage's gear and vice-versa. Who cares, because we're just going to out-level it anyway, right?! If everyone gets an equal share of the loot, you can trade for anything you really want. You can also buy what you need on the GTN with the money you get for selling your loot. Bind-on-pickup is the only real problem. If you are going to have bind-on-pickup, then I agree you are going to have to use a "need" button for those items. I'd just as soon not waste time when fighting looking at whether a particular piece is an upgrade or not. After the group is a good time to dig through whatever you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) I would also argue from the perspective of the game designers that by design certain pieces of gear are intended for certain classes through appearance, not only stats, though they may be used by others. The primary function served by this is that of silhouetting, or making player characters distinctly distinguishable on the battlefield. It was a very important design decision to the team that worked on Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, and it is common knowledge that part of that team was tapped for the design of SWTOR as well. Does that mean that nobody else should ever use a piece of gear designed for class X? No. The designers' intention does not mandate the use, but instead only strongly suggests it. So if the silhouetting of particular characters is important, then what if an Agent wants to be silhouetted as a Marauder? Does an Agent have a lesser right to look like a Marauder, especially if the Marauder in the group already looks like a Marauder? If the designers are making a special point to have a certain appearance, then needing for that particular appearance seems to gain validity. Edited January 28, 2012 by sjmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) So if the silhouetting of particular characters is important, then what if an Agent wants to be silhouetted as a Marauder? Does an Agent have a lesser right to look like a Marauder, especially if the Marauder in the group already looks like a Marauder? "wants" being the operative word here A want is not a need ..it would behoove you to learn that. Edited January 28, 2012 by Grecanis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I love these threads, there's always 3 people that just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 "wants" being the operative word here If it is not a stat upgrade for the Marauder, should he roll greed on a "Super Awesome Marauder Suit" that drops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronamo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 So if the silhouetting of particular characters is important, then what if an Agent wants to be silhouetted as a Marauder? Does an Agent have a lesser right to look like a Marauder, especially if the Marauder in the group already looks like a Marauder? If the designers are making a special point to have a certain appearance, then needing for that particular appearance seems to gain validity. The entire point behind the silhouetting method of character and armor design was specifically to insure that one class did not look like another. I'm not sure why you brought up "rights" in any case. I did not argue for or against any character being able to wear any armor of their weight class or lower. I merely commented on the design decisions behind the appearance of gear, and in fact concluded that the designers intention did not dictate who wore the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 If it is not a stat upgrade for the Marauder, should he roll greed on a "Super Awesome Marauder Suit" that drops? If it is not an upgrade for the Marauder then it becomes a "want" for them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Game mechanics question: Can you remove mods from gear without binding to them? If you win an orange piece of gear, can you take out whatever mods might upgrade someone else to give to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neptunius Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 This is why i only did 2 FP on my main while i lvled him up. I didnt do any FP since then and now going on my 4th 50... I dont see any time soon, that i will join any groups for FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronamo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Game mechanics question: Can you remove mods from gear without binding to them? If you win an orange piece of gear, can you take out whatever mods might upgrade someone else to give to them? No. As soon as you modify an unbound item it and all of its mods become bound to you. If the orange item were BoP to begin with, you wouldn't even need to modify it first for the binding to take effect. Edited January 28, 2012 by Ronamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 No. As soon as you modify an unbound item it and all of its mods become bound to you. If the orange item were BoP to begin with, you wouldn't even need to modify it first for the binding to take effect. You can strip a mod from a BOE without it binding ..also you can mod a BOE with a BOE without it binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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