Loendar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 No, it's not a fact. it's quite possible for him to get less items over time. I think you've also got a bad assumption in there. Is he actually saying that he's going to roll that way? It's a bad assumption that more rolls over time will equate to more items gained? Really? If I only roll on items for my toon (1x) while you always roll for items for you, your companion and for looks (3x) then you are inherently far ahead in the system. Maybe not immediately given that the RNG needs to be considered BUT definitely in the long term. Now - if everyone rolls need on everything all the time then all is 'fair' in your world and I can even see that being the case. However if the intent is to not just be 'fair' but to improve your character in a reasonable time frame then your system is detrimental to the whole. As for how he rolls - I'll admit that after all this time some of the players in the drama are getting missed up. I believe he falls into the toon/companion group (maybe appearance as well) but I don't profess to know. I'm simply reacting to the position he appears to be taking without going back over every word he has ever uttered on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If I roll need only on items that directly improve my character (not companion, not for looks) while YOU roll on everything for any reason - you will get more items over time. That is a fact. How you can't grasp that rolling 100x vs. 10x is going to give you more is beyond me. So, finally we get to the bottom of your argument. #1 If you only need on items that directly improve your character then fine #2 I will roll need on anything I need. Notice I have no criteria. So yes, you will lose out. But that was *your* choice. And does not in any way make you any way better, superior or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecanis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) A little off topic but this is one of my favorites. To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and to endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others; to leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded. Ralph Waldo Emerson Edited January 30, 2012 by Grecanis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Well, then, my mistake - you're obviously perfectly respectful to everyone you might play with, even the morally bankrupt "fake" players. Don't how how I could have possibly questions your respect for your fellow players. We obviously have VERY different ideas of what's wrong with the MMO community. Excellent. We have made a big strive here between us. I prefer to play with people that don't treat me as and ends to a means and you prefer... what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed_Buhallin Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Fine, then take your companion and two of you can go get his or her gear upgrades. If you need other players to help you, players are ALWAYS prioritized over companions for any gear that drops. Are you dense, or just antisocial? Jeez, we have a lot of MMO newbies around here. All the more need to establish loot rules beforehand and boot those who don't follow them. Actually, I think we would benefit from more newbies around here. Too many people haven't adapted to what SWTOR is yet. They're locked into standards established for previous games. Mods, orange items, companions - all throw the old standards out the window by creating need for items in new and interesting ways. The fact that you haven't quite caught up to that fact doesn't mean the others are antisocial. Consider the original title: You shouldn't be able to need to strip mods. Say I'm a Juggernaut, and we have a Marauder in the group. A piece of orange heavy armor drops. I currently have orange armor. Should I be able to roll on it? Should the Marauder, if he has orange armor as well? What if I didn't have orange armor? We can both use the mods equally, we're both going to do the same thing with them, both have the same end stats. What does it matter whether it all starts in a box labeled "heavy armor" if the use that comes out the other end is the exact same? Too many people just want easy decisions. They want something that says "This is Hunter gear". They don't want to consider the fairly complex interactions which come up because of the new systems in this game. I like to think that a year from now this will have changed, but for now - yeah, I'll take an MMO newb who isn't locked into WoW-gearhead thoughts over you, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So, finally we get to the bottom of your argument. #1 If you only need on items that directly improve your character then fine #2 I will roll need on anything I need. Notice I have no criteria. So yes, you will lose out. But that was *your* choice. And does not in any way make you any way better, superior or anything else. And that is certainly your choice. I just assert that your choice (and you are welcome to it) is not one that should be encouraged in a group setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed_Buhallin Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Excellent. We have made a big strive here between us. I prefer to play with people that don't treat me as and ends to a means and you prefer... what? Someone who'll be respectful enough to accept that different people play the game for different reasons, or can at least endure that without insulting them. I do have to disagree with your claim, though - your obsession with the idea of maximal group capability points to a rather unhealthy drive for progress and completion, and you care only for that. It seems you treat everyone as only a means to an end for your own progression - hiding that behind the entire group getting there doesn't change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 And that is certainly your choice. I just assert that your choice (and you are welcome to it) is not one that should be encouraged in a group setting. That's fine. It's your opinion, I respect it, but I don't agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 And that is certainly your choice. I just assert that your choice (and you are welcome to it) is not one that should be encouraged in a group setting. Why not? Because you want to be in the group? If the majority of the group want to use the choice that you do not "encourage", why shouldn't they use it? Because you will get mad and leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinguaq Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 For the love of god, this same stupid discussion again... For those who cant handle others playing differently, go back to single player games. Have you done all the Mass Effect games yet? For the children you are shouting "but it's not fair"... the World isn't fair. If you cant handle it in a game, good luck in the real world. For those who just "really wanted that" gear, and thought it was MADE for their character, run the instance, again, and again. Or move on, there's more content and more gear. With all the time spend whining on this forum, I wonder how many equivalent pieces you could have rolled on. Grow up, move on, and accept the fact that other players using their own mind and attitudes when grouping is part of the game. I'm glad everyone I play with isn't a bot. I dont always agree with PUG members, and feel some people are real butts, but generally would prefer to play with a them than the self-righteous MMO gurus who feel so superior and want to tell eberyone else how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It's a bad assumption that more rolls over time will equate to more items gained? Really?it's not a fact that he'll wind up with more items. He might result in more items gained; it may even be statistically likely. But not a guaranteed fact. If I only roll on items for my toon (1x) while you always roll for items for you, your companion and for looks (3x) then you are inherently far ahead in the system. Maybe not immediately given that the RNG needs to be considered BUT definitely in the long term.Some bad assumptions there. since you're saying you here: I often don't roll for things even if it's a statistical upgrade. I suspect that it's quite likely that you roll need on at least as many as I do, even if I'm rolling for appearance of companions. However if the intent is to not just be 'fair' but to improve your character in a reasonable time frame then your system is detrimental to the whole.Hey, what that boils down to is that you care more about improving your character in a reasonable time frame than being fair. I care more about being fair than improving my character in a reasonable time frame. I'm simply reacting to the position he appears to be taking without going back over every word he has ever uttered on the subject.T me, it looks like you think it appears that way because you want it to appear that way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loendar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Someone who'll be respectful enough to accept that different people play the game for different reasons, or can at least endure that without insulting them. I do have to disagree with your claim, though - your obsession with the idea of maximal group capability points to a rather unhealthy drive for progress and completion, and you care only for that. It seems you treat everyone as only a means to an end for your own progression - hiding that behind the entire group getting there doesn't change it. It's a game with an end-game. There is little reason to play if you aren't attempting to better yourself and others to reach it. You certainly can play games like that - there are thousands of them, where you can make decisions in a vacuum and not impact anyone else. This is a social game with all the morays and conventions that come along with it. You can play nice and help others or you can play for yourself and reap your just deserts. In the end, this issue will mostly hash itself out here like it has in every other game and if those games are any indication your camp will be left holding the 'no group' bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meluna Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Greetings, all. This thread has gone past the 1,000 post mark, and so we have restarted it. You can find the new version linked below. Please keep in mind our Rules of Conduct when discussing this issue. We understand it can be heated at times, but please be respectful and polite to one another. Thank you! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=252548 Edited January 30, 2012 by Meluna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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