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No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods


CBGB

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This, right here. Common curtsey is one of those things that people just don;t seem to have anymore. That and you know...common sense. Guess they aren't so common anymore.

 

Dont you know anything, its all about self entitlement and no repercussions on the interwebs it allows people to be self centered and forget the simplest manners that they were/should have been taught when they were toddlers.

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Dont you know anything, its all about self entitlement and no repercussions on the interwebs it allows people to be self centered and forget the simplest manners that they were/should have been taught when they were toddlers.

 

So the people who feel everyone has the same, yes SAME, right to roll are selfish and greedy. Oh did I mention EVERYONE? But the people on the flip side of that coin want or demand you NOT use your roll if you want the item for something so they or someone else has a better chance. Can you really say that other side has no sense of entitlement.

 

Entitlement is the right to something. No one has an entitlement to a piece of gear, plain and simple. We have an entitlement to roll, if we did not, we would not have the option. I've also seen people use Steal or stolen, false again. Stealing implies you own the item already, and since you're not entitled to it, it's not yours.

 

I'm not condoning people roll on every single thing that drops, I'm saying if someone wants to roll for looks, or for the mods or for their companion, they have that right to roll. If you do not like this, it's as easy as setting rules before hand.

 

You can say the same things over and over and over again. If you feel others should pass for someone else, that's a sense of entitlement. I'm not saying it's wrong, or not decent, but it IS a sense of entitlement. But it's also not right. The big thing that the "everyone has the same chance since they all helped" group gets accused of constantly.

 

Another thing you are entitled to is your opinion or view on how you WANT it to work. But pushing that on others? And yes, saying you'll blacklist them, they'll never get groups again or that you'll make sure they never get groups again is pushing it on others. If they agree to rules you set beforehand and still do so, then feel free since you didn't force anything, they agreed. But if no rules are discussed, there is no right whatsoever to complain.

 

Your view or opinions do not invalidate someone elses just because you feel you're right or decent or whatnot.

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So the people who feel everyone has the same, yes SAME, right to roll are selfish and greedy.

 

yes ...it aint called a 'greed' roll fer nothin!!

 

That's the problem these days. Some folks just can't tell the difference between "want" and "need" ;)

 

Your view or opinions do not invalidate someone elses just because you feel you're right or decent or whatnot.

 

But being disrespectful, selfish and incurtious does?

Edited by Grecanis
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yes ...it aint called a 'greed' roll fer nothin!!

 

That's the problem these days. Some folks just can't tell the difference between "want" and "need" ;)

 

 

 

But being disrespectful, selfish and incurtious does?

 

Except the problem is that many of those who take issue with the equal roll idea(not idea actually, system in place) feel that someone who plays the game and prioritizes looks over stats, is pretty much wrong and should pass to those who are rolling for stats.

 

So passing because you want it for looks or a companion or the mods so someone else gets a better chance is the only way to make it respectful or courteous? Really? So that means the person who is going for stats has a sense of entitlement since he feels he should have a better chance at it rather than taking his chances with the dice, just like the person who would want it for looks does. Being courteous varies based on the person. For example, I feel it's DIS Courteous to just say "hi" or "how's it going" to a random stranger you walk past. Does that mean i'm right or wrong, no. That's just my opinion.

 

The system is the way it is, if there is no discussion because you have "moral" or "social" rules you follow, you cannot expect anyone to follow them too. Since the system is NOT the way you want it, if you don't speak up and make your position known, there is no right to complain.

 

And everyone is selfish in some way, out society would be far far different if that was not the case.

Edited by ispanolfw
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Except the problem is that many of those who take issue with the equal roll idea(not idea actually, system in place) feel that someone who plays the game and prioritizes looks over stats, is pretty much wrong and should pass to those who are rolling for stats.

 

When I group, I willingly take the risk that my groupmates will get me killed, not steal my gear!

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When I group, I willingly take the risk that my groupmates will get me killed, not steal my gear!

 

Your gear? So it's your gear before you ever touch it? That's called entitlement, and the crux of the problem and the oh so special word thrown at the side trying to argue the fairness of the current system. It's not yours til it's in your possession, that's how ownership works.

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Your gear? So it's your gear before you ever touch it? That's called entitlement, and the crux of the problem and the oh so special word thrown at the side trying to argue the fairness of the current system. It's not yours til it's in your possession, that's how ownership works.

 

what he said...

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I think you'll find the clue is in the name.

 

Need (because your class needs this item)

 

and

 

Greed (if you don't know the connotations of this word then I'm afraid you are a lost cause in life)

 

Anyone who defies this concept in General, the forums, or anywhere else, is entirely ignorant of both the English language and the intended mechanics of MMOs.

 

Once again:

 

Need is for items that your character genuinely needs, Greed is for items that you want to sell/harvest/dismantle etc etc. The clue is in the word GREED.

 

Unfortunately, however, as in real life the cretins will always seek to take a mile if you give them an inch. If this selfish behaviour is going on (and we've all seen it across certain games) then the developers clearly need to place class restrictions on Need rolls.

 

Many MMOs already do this, and it solved these arguments overnight.

 

It is not Bioware's fault that in some aspects they have been a little naive in deploying their first MMO. I had hoped that they would research common pitfalls in player exploitative behaviour (a good example would be the problem with players quitting a warzone when they're losing and causing it to reset for everyone else).

 

However as this is a new game and they are being very receptive to feedback I hope they do see sense and ignore the people against this entirely before going ahead and implementing something to restrict 'greed' needing. Obviously the people against this are the kind to perpetrate it - ambiguous morality is easier from behind a computer screen.

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This issue is also quite profound in pugs i have played with, while i have no beef if the class in question is not actually present in the pug it is a problem when a sentinel takes a smuggler based item so they can get the look.

 

The problem is jedi in particular are completly fed up of wearing the same rehashed hooded robes that obscure their hair choice and just look dull, the whole orange moddable gear is a failed attempt at implementing viable player choice in the way that they look.

 

Furthermore this system is rendered completly void at 50 so if they addressed this and figured out a different way to let people choose how their character looks then this might avoid the nuances of having someone take your orange gear.

 

Another solution is to get bosses to drop instance tokens that allow you go to a vendor and buy gear of your choosing without affecting other players.

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i think many (if not all) of the players have some previous MMO experience.

and most are from WOW, where the loot system have been discussed and debated quite often. in wow, items are now designated to the specific classes, so you cannot roll need on every item that drops.

what also exists in wow and what SWTOR lacks at the moment is the auto cross server LFG function that puts you into a group of random ppl from other servers.

what has developed in these random LFG groups is a specific mindset: "im out for myself, and myself only"

because chances are you will not encounter these ppl again, this mindset will make ppl roll need on any item that they can.

 

SWTOR is new, it does not have the auto LFG. but ppl from wow are still stuck in the mindset and will continue their behaviour.

but here comes the beauty of not having a cross server function, put the ppl that you think have mistreated you on your /ignore.

in the end they will need to develop a new mindset or be left alone in the game

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A few possibilities as to why someone would roll need on stuff they can't use:

 

1. Antisocial - Doing it for the lulz and watching people get butt hurt. Just a troll. Probably doesn't plan to have a long stay playing the game so they don't care if they ruin their reputation.

 

2. Ignorant - Doesn't understand game mechanics. A mmo noob.

 

3. Stupid - Thinks everyone rolling need is the fairest way to do loot. This reduces everyone's chances to improve their gear including their own.

 

4. Doesn't care - "It's only a game!" They are partiality right but their is a culture of proper looting. Improving ones character is part of that game experience and they are ruining that experience for the rest of us.

 

5. Devious - Knows the proper rules and expects everyone else to follow them but intentionally breaks them to get more credits for themselves.

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If it's for your class, and you need it, roll NEED

If your companion could use it, roll GREED

If you don't need it, but would like the cash, roll GREED

 

Simple enough, right? But there will always be people who think the world turns around them and that they are entitled, even if it's only to the measly few credits vendoring the item will get them.

 

I therefore suggest the developers implement the system that Warhammer had from the get-go: there, you CANNOT roll need on items that are not specifically intended for your class. You can only roll greed. Worked like a charm.

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Your gear? So it's your gear before you ever touch it? That's called entitlement, and the crux of the problem and the oh so special word thrown at the side trying to argue the fairness of the current system. It's not yours til it's in your possession, that's how ownership works.

 

You're damn right it's my gear before I ever touch it, if it's made for my class. Unless there's someone else of the same class, then we roll for it. If, say, Heavy Armour drops, and there's a group with a Vanguard and 3 Sages, it belongs to the Vanguard. It is his/hers. Before he/she rolls. End. Of. Story. You will not sway me to be a greedy little thieving ninja looter with ANY argument you may have.

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Don't class restrict the use of gear, only restrict the needing of gear.

This way, if nobody with the right class has use of it, the greed roll will put the item in the hands of someone who wants it.

 

Also, a 30-60 minute ability to trade the BOP item with eligible looters a lot of the issues could be resolved.

 

Unfortunately, I think the mechanics in the game have to change since there is no way to force common sense and humility onto others.

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If it's for your class, and you need it, roll NEED

If your companion could use it, roll GREED

If you don't need it, but would like the cash, roll GREED

 

Simple enough, right? But there will always be people who think the world turns around them and that they are entitled, even if it's only to the measly few credits vendoring the item will get them.

 

I therefore suggest the developers implement the system that Warhammer had from the get-go: there, you CANNOT roll need on items that are not specifically intended for your class. You can only roll greed. Worked like a charm.

 

i refuse to lose a roll for something i need for my companion to someone who want to vendor the item.

 

so i roll need if nobody else need

Edited by boobaffet
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If my companion can use the mods in the item then I'm probably going to roll on it, if I feel like it. Everyone else can complain about it as much as they want, but that doesn't mean I cannot or will not roll on something I want to have.

 

In the end, no matter what Bioware does there will always be complaints about looting and who gets what.

 

And unfortunately there will always be selfish idiots like you that think of only yourself, it really is rediculous that people can be this shortsighted when considering other people, you cannot do this content without 3 other people.

 

Why exactly is it your right to take a tiny upgrade or an upgrade for a companion when someone else in the group could get a nice, main spec upgrade for their char?

 

Unfortunately all you really can do, as has been suggested is deal with the fact you got grouped with a ********, ignore them and dont group with them again, not everybody is such a lamer and in the end its not going to set you back a great deal.

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Unfortunately, I think the mechanics in the game have to change since there is no way to force common sense and humility onto others.

 

I unfortunately agree with you, judging by the attitudes held by a lot of posters in many threads about this topic. You can't just expect people to have respect for the "gentleman's rules" of looting. I hope they at least go to a Need/Companion/Greed system, for starters.

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A few possibilities as to why someone would roll need on stuff they can't use:

 

1. Antisocial - Doing it for the lulz and watching people get butt hurt. Just a troll. Probably doesn't plan to have a long stay playing the game so they don't care if they ruin their reputation.

 

2. Ignorant - Doesn't understand game mechanics. A mmo noob.

 

3. Stupid - Thinks everyone rolling need is the fairest way to do loot. This reduces everyone's chances to improve their gear including their own.

 

4. Doesn't care - "It's only a game!" They are partiality right but their is a culture of proper looting. Improving ones character is part of that game experience and they are ruining that experience for the rest of us.

 

5. Devious - Knows the proper rules and expects everyone else to follow them but intentionally breaks them to get more credits for themselves.

Yes, thank you, only here we were discussing items that the other person CAN use, which only require some minor remodding of 2 out of 3 modifications.

Imperial Agent: medium armor

Sith Marauder: medium armor

 

Orange gear is gear that can legitly be rolled on for cosmetic needs, it's as simple as that.

Stats taking precedence over cosmetics? There's green, blue and purple drops for that. Orange gear is FFA for those of the appropriate armorclass. Yes, it's really as simple as that.

 

Yes, I play agent, and yes, I'd be annoyed if a Sith Marauder won that roll on that jacket which would look awesome on me too. But I'd be annoyed because I'd envy him the win, not because I have some weird sense of entitlement that I'd deserve it more.

 

There's really only 1 good solution to this whole thing in my opinion: Bioware, simply strip those mods out of all flashpoint and operation drops, let people mod those things themselves.

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Yes, thank you, only here we were discussing items that the other person CAN use, which only require some minor remodding of 2 out of 3 modifications.

Imperial Agent: medium armor

Sith Marauder: medium armor

 

Orange gear is gear that can legitly be rolled on for cosmetic needs, it's as simple as that.

Stats taking precedence over cosmetics?

 

Except it's not "as simple as that." Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't the one with Cunning be Agent gear, NOT Marauder?

 

If you're confused about the classes' main stats, you should read the codex or use google to find out what stats your character uses.

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Yes, thank you, only here we were discussing items that the other person CAN use, which only require some minor remodding of 2 out of 3 modifications.

Imperial Agent: medium armor

Sith Marauder: medium armor

 

Orange gear is gear that can legitly be rolled on for cosmetic needs, it's as simple as that.

Stats taking precedence over cosmetics? There's green, blue and purple drops for that. Orange gear is FFA for those of the appropriate armorclass. Yes, it's really as simple as that.

 

Yes, I play agent, and yes, I'd be annoyed if a Sith Marauder won that roll on that jacket which would look awesome on me too. But I'd be annoyed because I'd envy him the win, not because I have some weird sense of entitlement that I'd deserve it more.

 

There's really only 1 good solution to this whole thing in my opinion: Bioware, simply strip those mods out of all flashpoint and operation drops, let people mod those things themselves.

 

i agree with you, if i like the appereance im rolling need.

 

the other guy can still have the mod, after all those are the stat.

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To whom it may concern: I respectfully submit for consideration that not every player is aware of what every other player needs until they have run into a clarifying situation. I read my codex, I perused the online gaming help guide, but apparently didn't understand some aspects of looting. As a Smuggler almost no person needs what I do because most of the pugs are filled with tanks and healers, for a good reason.

 

I discovered entirely by accident that the Trooper class uses as their main gear what I use for my companion. I figured that out after selecting need for an aim and endurance after a trooper acting as a tank, having stated that he was a tank, during a heroic got furious with me for selecting need for aim and endurance for my companion because I didn't know he, the Trooper would need it. I thought, foolishly I imagine, that like most tanks he would need might and endurance and there were no other smugglers on the team. Unfortuantely the item was bound as soon as I picked it up and I could not offer it to him. I did offer to run the Heroic again with him so that he could pick up the item later. I did not, repeat did not, take the opportunity to roll need for the gear from him on purpose with prior malicious or selfish intent.

 

Further, I now refuse to roll for anything that a Smuggler won't use and I am Cybertech and building mods and purchasing modifiable armor for each of my companions so that I don't ever have to worry about needing armor on my companion so that I survive when I cannot find other players to group with. I am trading within my guild for these at the moment to make sure I give good value for the armor that I must have for myself and my companions to survive.

 

At present, I am currently running toons of every class on two servers, one Imperial and one Republic, due to the fact that I was unfamiliar with the need/greed rolling system and the various requirements of each class. The only way for me to truly understand what each character needs is to play one of each. Also, this allows me to have one of each crafting Crew Skill for all of my toons and once I level these, I plan never to rely on any loot drop from a pug ever again to actually equip myself or the companions that keep me alive on solo quests.

 

This may defeat the purpose of MMO group playing, but I would rather run 8 toons and be self-reliant concerning arms, armor, and mods, and use guild trading support to achieve my goals than to ever have someone scream at me over the chat channel because I did not understand that his Class had requirements for the exact same armor that my companion did. To be fair, he did calm down once I explained that I had made a mistake and was willing to rectify it. Still, I have made certain that it will Never happen again.

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