People don't really like playing with other people

[Urko]

I feel the companions should be taken away in heroic areas altogether, then players would HAVE to get players to make up the numbers, this aint a bad thing. Edited January 27, 2012 by Urko

[DarthTenor]

I agree with OP. It's a single player game with MP components thrown in.

 

 

I think I'm done with TOR when my sub expires in FEB. I don't want to pay $15 a month for a single player game with MP options. You can get better PVP with other games that have MP components.

[SirSensi]

I'll try and keep this short.

 

I play an imp as of right now on a"standard" server.

 

-Chat is dead.

-People join pugs without saying a single word for the entire mission and then just leave.

-I finally run into another player somewhere in the world and they don't even acknowledge my existence.

-I throw buffs on players as I see them. I rarely receive buffs from other players.

-The only time someone takes interest in me is when they are snagging my mission objectives out from under me.

 

What happened to "community" in an MMO?

 

- I do not chat in general because of the d-bag trolls.

- If I do group with a non-guildie I do attempt to strike up conversation, or join in on an ongoing conversation.

- Same

- Same, I was on my Jedi Knight doing a class quest on Ord Mantel, saw Smugglers and Troopers everywhere, and anytime I was able I threw Force Might on anyone I could. About the 7th-10th person hit me with one of theirs. It shouldnt matter what level you are. In Beta you couldnt take 2 steps without someone hitting you with their buff.

- That hasnt happened to me... yet.

[-Dench]

The game is to easy to complete solo. Only 2 or 3 time's have I had to have someone help me out in a quest. I'm level 48, and Corellia is a breeze so far. I'm not even DPS, im a healer.

 

The game chat doesn't help either. It's actually a major problem. General chat is so hostile and dysfunctional that it's not worth using or reading into, as its a wall of text made of personal attacks, racist/sexual comments and general trolling.

[Sathid]

I heard a rumor that community and forced grouping was so popular and pulled in millions of subs ... oh wait, it didn't. If anything it shows that people want exactly the opposite as proven with this game and many others.

 

The early days of EQ2 were like that and for many the best mmo experiences they have had.

[Tekniko]

I dont bother to group or talk to anyone because I have had such bad experiences. And for the most part people leave halfway through a quest or they go AFK for 20 minutes.

[Joonbeams]

Noob question: what does it mean to 'steal quest objectives' in a group? I often group with a noob friend of mine and we are trying to level up together. But can this be harmful? I thought we shared the quest objectives other than the class ones.

[Mandrax]

This is a common theme in MMOs these days. There used to be a proper community in MMOs, now the only real community in these games is within guilds. It's not limited to this game, its pretty much across the board now.

[RamzaBehoulve]

There is a difference between all the way forced grouping ala EQ/FFXI and requiring a group for key fights of the story. Bioware had the perfect setup to show the grouping experience during all parts of the story, but they didn't.

 

I very highly doubt people would dislike the fact they need 2-3 people to kill the last boss of a planet.

[Democratus]

Games are the way they are because the majority of players demanded it. For a game to make massive money it must cater to the lowest common denominator.

 

As MMOs have become more mainstream, more people are logging on who don't want the group-or-die dynamic. They just want casual solo play. Game designers are responding to this - as they should - by providing an environment conducive to this kind of play.

 

Odds are that this trend will increase, not decrease. And finding games with strong community will require playing niche games with fewer subscribers and lower production value.

[Skylarke]

 

1) You're wrong about the "earliest MMOs". UO, EQ, FFXI, DAoC... all of them were "forced-group" type MMOs. There were only a select few classes in each game that could effectively solo. The rest of the classes needed to group to level.

 

 

Untrue. I played DAoC from beta until a few months after ToA. I was able to solo "squishy" classes in it all of the way to max level from the start (including a mana/mentalism mentalist) without much difficulty. It just took a lot longer than if I would have grouped more with them. People didn't group there as much out of necessity, but because it was so much quicker to level with them. They were taking the easiest path.

 

Also, AC (which you didn't mention) was soloable. EQ, not so much, though I did so quite a bit with my Shaman.

 

[OddballEasyEight]

What happened to "community" in an MMO?

 

They all rolled on RP servers.

 

On The Progenitor there is a vibrant community. People are on general chat all the time, people group up left and right, ive never had to wait long when i LFG for some heroic before i have enough people in a group to play.

 

I think the main problem is that the "i have to get to lvl 50 immediately to show off my e-peen" people are in majority on regular servers, whereas most on RP servers take it easy and enjoy the story and the company of others.

 

Hell, ive even had people group up with me to do flashpoints they dont need to do, just to help me out.

 

 

so if you want to know what happened to "community" in an MMO, id say go look on the RP servers.

But be aware that if you start acting like a douche, you will feel very lonely very fast... because people tell their friends when they /ignore someone... so if you act like a douche in chat or something and 4 people /ignore you, you can bet that 20 people have /ignore'd you without you ever meeting or talking to them.

[Screaming_Ziva]

Noob question: what does it mean to 'steal quest objectives' in a group? I often group with a noob friend of mine and we are trying to level up together. But can this be harmful? I thought we shared the quest objectives other than the class ones.

Stealing quest objectives is when, for example, you have to blow up a console behind a huge boss. Some players wait for another person (not in their group) to aggro the boss and then they run past and trigger the objective for themselves without fighting the boss.

[Thelooney]

Games are the way they are because the majority of players demanded it. For a game to make massive money it must cater to the lowest common denominator.

 

As MMOs have become more mainstream, more people are logging on who don't want the group-or-die dynamic. They just want casual solo play. Game designers are responding to this - as they should - by providing an environment conducive to this kind of play.

 

Odds are that this trend will increase, not decrease. And finding games with strong community will require playing niche games with fewer subscribers and lower production value.

 

this is the unfortunate reality of MMORPG these days. Developers didn't just create single player friendly environment because it was simpler or easier or a better quality of and by itself; they did so to satisfy the ever growing casual demographic. Though it's unfair to call them casuals, as its more of people that were sole console gamer few years ago joining the MMOG market, coupled with former hardcore PC gamer that no longer has the time to invest so heavily on gaming.

[DarthKhaos]

Don't know bout your server buy mine got lotsa chat going on. I've seen everything from politics to sex (which sometimes is related) to cooking. Anything goes.

 

But the interesting thing is some people don't like that and even before the game launched some were "Wishing there isn't another Barrens Chat". I find that sentiment to be utter rubbish. Let people talk to each other. Let them chat and let them laugh with each other having a good ole online time.

[Tastetest]

It died long ago. Meet the new breed, and thank WoW for them.

 

I agree 100%, gamers to day (and i use the term loosely) want everything on a platter, auto aim in shooters, add-ons that automate as much as possible and take the effort out of playing and people too lazy to try things out with-in the game and to find trade skills and specs that are right for them on an individual level.

 

It’s a shame but gamming, real gamming is dead; personally I’m done with online play this game is my swan song which is why no matter how 5hit it is no matter how much it crashes and burns i will hang in there as long as i can. Gaming died with games like wow and call of duty I’m just glad I’m old enough to remember skill, the joy of getting a rail-gun kill while on a jump pad the joy of kicking people from games because they were as5holes or laughing as people rage quit because they were getting knocked about like a ragdoll, it may all sound harsh to you young’uns but to me the struggle, overcoming the enemy and the thrill of victory was all that mattered, a drug that saw many a sleepless night. Now it’s all where do I put my points, I’m a Jedi knight what magic trade skill should I get, or the classic what rotation should I use, or in laypersons terms I’m stupid and lazy tell me what buttons to press. Anyway i have things to do so get off my damn lawn you hippys or i'll hit you with my walking stick

[DRDcanuck]

Ok not going to read all 14 pages so this may have already been said....

 

The problem is not that people don't like grouping but that the modern MMO is not "social" friendly. Look at how "bare-bones" the chat tab is in this game (stuck up in the corner out of the way). Look at how awful chat was (is) in DC online. That was ONE of the biggest issues in the beginning.

 

DC online even had built-in voice chat...poorly optimized or not, the first thing most people did was shut it off. (mainly so you didn't have to hear the mouth-breather in your pug).

 

MMO's now seem to be ActionMMO. If you are not voice chatting you don't really have time to chat during missions. This is, IMHO, the biggest barrier to socializing in this or most other MMO's. If you are chatting (text) you are more than likely not attacking, healing, whatever. Long gone are the days you could hold a conversation in the middle of battle.

 

 

Anyone remember COH "street sweeping", hunting in PP? The game seemed slower paced and there were areas in game that promoted chatting....as you played...

Edited January 27, 2012 by DRDcanuck

[Fiachsidhe]

This is correct. In the oldschool MMOs (UO, Everquest, AC, DAoC, etc) player interaction was necessary for either survival and/or advancement in nearly every facet of the game. Now-a-days it is optional at best.

 

If you need a game mechanic to make sure you act social, you're not a social person and no amount of mechanics are going to change that.

[universeman]

The truth of the matter is, the game caters to being played solo and gives little incentive to grouping. In fact, if you group, standard content just becomes 10x easier because it was designed for solo play. Even instanced missions do not scale (correct me if I'm wrong)...

 

I want a challenge. But, I want to do it with others...and I can't go from 1-50 on HEROIC's and FP's alone.

 

This game needs to provide more incentive to group without making solo play undesireable or too difficult.

[Aria]

I enjoy grouping with guild mates, but do hesitate at doing pugs.

[DeathDiciple]

The truth of the matter is, the game caters to being played solo and gives little incentive to grouping. In fact, if you group, standard content just becomes 10x easier because it was designed for solo play. Even instanced missions do not scale (correct me if I'm wrong)...

 

I want a challenge. But, I want to do it with others...and I can't go from 1-50 on HEROIC's and FP's alone.

 

This game needs to provide more incentive to group without making solo play undesireable or too difficult.

 

Agreed that instances should scale up (and maybe down too, but where'd be the challenge of duoing heroic 4s then hehe).

[gtmach]

It died long ago. Meet the new breed, and thank WoW for them.

 

I kind of agree w/ this and here are my reasons.

 

1) Back in the beginning days of WoW people tolerated "noobs" a lot more because that's what we generally were. WoW did a horrible job of pointing people in the right direction and helping them figure out their classes.

 

Since then they've improved that aspect completely. SWTOR follows the model of WoW today in terms of accessibility. As a completely "noob", your given all this information on what your class is and what it can do. You're shown how to handle quests and where to go. And you're informed about all the major aspects of the game. WoW even provides suggestions as to when to use certain abilities.

 

These days with both games pointing everything out so the casual "noob" can understand often leads to the lack of communication.

 

Players used to be the main source of information in a game when the in-game help or tutorials weren't helpful at all. But obviously these developers don't want their players starting the game blind, so they provide all these hints and tips and tools to help players out.

 

As a result, especially combined with the fact that WoW transformed the MMO industry from being a genre only meant for the hardcore "nerd" to one that everyone participates in, it's expected that players have some decent knowhow right off the bat, thereby nullifying any reason to communicate.

 

2) In WoW, people get butchered for not knowing mechanics since the information is so easily available. Since people are afraid of criticism, they often seem reticent to ask questions. Once you do 1 group quest or instance or w/e, you'll understand most of them. Sometimes you'll get some nice communication going back n forth if there's a new boss to handle, but it becomes routine after that so there's no use to talk.

 

3) Another theory is that players just want to advance. They group up with you only because you provide the means to complete the group content with. But they don't want to befriend you or talk casually. They're just there to get the job done and get their loot.

[fruitofvictory]

I heard a rumor that community and forced grouping was so popular and pulled in millions of subs ... oh wait, it didn't. If anything it shows that people want exactly the opposite as proven with this game and many others.

 

if that is not what people want, maybe they should find another type of game besides massively MULTIPLAYER online ROLE PLAYING GAMES.

 

but yeah, someone else nailed it. When WoW easymoded the genre, they destroyed the desire to create community that was present in games before. I miss the days of Everquest where everyone knew everyone else, despite the large number of playerso n a server, and a true community developed over time.

[Vlaxitov]

So Blizzard is to blame for making a game a lot of people want to play, right?

 

You don't "make alot of people like" anything. You sell out and divert away from your original purpose instead by catering to what people already like.

 

Its hillarious that most people totally understand what it means to be a sell out in music yet very few can grasp the concept in video games.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[RowanThursday]

Bad experiences, bad history, lack of social skills.

 

Too many instances- in 'other MMOs' more than here, perhaps, of "there's another player around" meaning "I'm about to be guild-spammed/duel-spammed/have someone beg me for gold/credits"... means that when I see company, my first thought isn't "Oh, great, someone to talk to" but "I've got a bad feeling about this..."

 

Humanity is becoming steadily more sociopathic. Increasingly we look on 'other people' as an annoyance, rather than an opportunity for community.

 

Forced grouping would be a terrible idea, I think- the result would just be resentment, rather than enthusiasm.

 

Really... what's needed is fun. I'm not about to say random "Hi"s at Player X who's standing there with his companion... because I'm shy and I'd feel like a prat. However... if we're standing near the same NPC, what I might do is do some sort of comic emote at the NPC.

 

/Thursday observes the Imperial Officer standing in the street, trying to attract the attention of passersby and rolls her eyes, muttering to Ashara, "What do you suppose this one wants? Did his alleged crack troops all have their boots stolen by fieldmice or something? Or were they taken by surprise because the enemy shot back... again?"

 

Something like that. If the other player expresses interest or amusement- or even better, happens to do something of the same sort themselves, then I'll likely respond... assuming of course we happen to *see* each other's comments in the disaster of a chat interface, but that's another story...

 

The short version of that is... if another player's contribution feels to me like it enhances the 'world', then I'm interested. If it's just "HI LOL WNT 2 DO HEROIC" and I'm expected to communicate in text-speak... then I'll talk to NPCs, they're more fulfilling.