Qeuzolt Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't know what the definition of casual is to everyone. I have a lvl 50 operative, a lvl 35 sorc, and I'm currently thinking about leveling a Powertech. I have been playing about 5 hours on weekdays and all day on weekends. I'm enjoying the game a ton and if that schedule makes me casual then your right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskareot Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)? Flaw number 1 -- define what "HARDCORE" is to you in "A" game vs this one. Flaw number 2 -- assuming all of us "HARDCORE" MMO players or gamers are the same as you or your friends or that small bucket of people you deal with. *IS hard core raiding 40 hours a week plus getting world top 20 kills in wow type things? That would play on the PTRs in all raid environments to get a jump on kills for hours on end? Raiding from 6 pm cst til 1 am cst every night of the week? Getting titles , mounts in the game that are no longer even in the games you play and playing to have the best gear and guild and raids on the server? Theory crafting until your eyes bleed with numbers? Is that hard core? Because if you so your thoughts are flawed... I resubbed... and did all of that. SO your concept and information you are getting is not accurate sorry. Edited January 17, 2012 by Iskareot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drallbait Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That is a fairly accurate generalization, and it is by design. Hardcores MMO players don't care as much about the core thing this game was built on: Story. Because they play so many hours the story is over very fast. If you play 10 hours a week the Story is still in full bloom and you are still having a great time. Especially since you don't have to read poorly designed Quest Text any longer, and your character actually has emotional context and purpose. If you have already played half your waking hours since you got into Beta, of course you are bored with the Story elements, since you have already covered the Class Storyline for multiple characters. Its just a basic fact of MMO life. Soon the hardcores will have mostly moved on or decided to play the game the way it was designed. I expect that Bioware will also shock people with their ability to put out content and that will attract back some hardcores as raids refresh faster. But that is a another story for another time. I expect there will be half to 1 million mostly casual players subscribed on average the next few years. It will be a bit sad for the hardcores when they realize MMO development isn't really controlled my them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't know what the definition of casual is to everyone. I have a lvl 50 operative, a lvl 35 sorc, and I'm currently thinking about leveling a Powertech. I have been playing about 5 hours on weekdays and all day on weekends. I'm enjoying the game a ton and if that schedule makes me casual then your right. Casual is not measured by time but how you spend that time in game. If you log in 5 hours a day but run around doing nothing for the majority of that 5 hours and dont even get a level then you are casual. If you login for that 5 hours and get say 3 levels do some pvp run an FP level crafting while doing all that then I would consider the person somewhat hardcore. Its all about how a person spends their time in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesiser Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I like this game when I play it. I don't like it when I read forums because people point out the flaws and I agree with many of them. On top of that other flaws pop up in my head and I think about it more than I should. But when I play it I enjoy it because unless one of those bugs or whatever is currently occurring at the time I'm playing, I don't think about it. Although I will say it helped when I switched from my jedi guardian to my trooper commando because the ability delay is much less prevalent. Edited January 17, 2012 by genesiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That is a fairly accurate generalization, and it is by design. Hardcores MMO players don't care as much about the core thing this game was built on: Story. Because they play so many hours the story is over very fast. If you play 10 hours a week the Story is still in full bloom and you are still having a great time. Especially since you don't have to read poorly designed Quest Text any longer, and your character actually has emotional context and purpose. If you have already played half your waking hours since you got into Beta, of course you are bored with the Story elements, since you have already covered the Class Storyline for multiple characters. Its just a basic fact of MMO life. Soon the hardcores will have mostly moved on or decided to play the game the way it was designed. I expect that Bioware will also shock people with their ability to put out content and that will attract back some hardcores as raids refresh faster. But that is a another story for another time. I expect there will be half to 1 million mostly casual players subscribed on average the next few years. It will be a bit sad for the hardcores when they realize MMO development isn't really controlled my them. Not true at all you dont know what a casual is vs a hardcore lol. I garantee you hardcores aren't leaving because of endgame and things like that they are leaving because of the bad coding and engine that bioware chose to put swtor on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornekx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 By casuals u mean ppl that enjoy wow and medicore games? On an average day i can play for like 2 hours swtor and i still wish more features from older mmorpgs that made them more social and complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyisrael Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I disagree strongly with this assumption. This day and age the vast majority are heavy users of the internet and will go and look at the forums for the virtual world they are paying for. Just look at the number of threads being created it is nearly 1 every 10 seconds. By the time I finish typing this short paragraph the thread will be on page 5. Not true. Out of the ten people i play with I'm the only one that goes to the forums. When i tell them something I seen on the forums they always say " why waste your time on that garbage when you could be playing the game more". Nobody goes to the forums cep us weirdos and pc goolies that can't get enough. The majority of the player base is unmoved by a need to go to the forums. They buy the game to play it. Not talk about it. Edited January 17, 2012 by bobbyisrael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drallbait Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Not true at all you dont know what a casual is vs a hardcore lol. I garantee you hardcores aren't leaving because of endgame and things like that they are leaving because of the bad coding and engine that bioware chose to put swtor on. lolwut? I actually played pretty hardcore in WoW, so I know exactly what its like. The primary difference is how much time, energy and resource a player can put into a computer game. Feel free to believe what you will, but the "coding" and "engine" are well above average for this game. Ya, maybe they should not have gone with the Hero Engine, but they were never going to build the whiz-bang graphics engine for MMOs anyway. That was never part of the design, even though a lot of people expected it anyway. It frankly is a ton better than WoW when it shipped, but WoW has had 6 years to improve things. Edited January 17, 2012 by Drallbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnetikjakhammer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 hours played doesn't mean you're hardcore. If I play the 1st super mario for hours and hours on end, and no other game close to that level of play time, does that make me a hardcore gamer??? Exactly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Sorry, I think the tagline is over generalized. Our guild from WoW was not hardcore, but we were end game focused entirely. Our WoW guild raided T1 - T8. Have over 50+ members who came to this game, about 30+ are L50 already. So far, everyone is loving this game, and excited about moving end game runs. Yes it's buggy. Yes it's thin. But, we actually remember Vanilla WoW. Started 11/24/04, and had 40 geared and ready for MC 2/24/05. That was 3 months into the game. And we were the eventual 2nd MC finish on our server (May?) So, being that we are, what, 5 weeks into the game? It seems a little early to give up on endgame, considering in our last experience, we didn't even get to start for another 4 or 5 weeks beyond this point. And a patch with more content on the horizon already bodes well. Will this game hold our interest? Remains to be seen. But it's too soon to tell, as so far, we've been enjoying it, and think we'll see even more content roll out across the next few months. Edited January 17, 2012 by Spynnal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The problem here is people have delusions of grandeur about their own OPINIONS of what they find enjoyable. Technical problems aside, everyone looks for many different things in a game. Even casual vs casual and hardcore vs hardcore. Some don't like the train track feel for example. I personally enjoy it. Most of us MMO vets have long gotten over the wow (not WoW) factor of seeing what is over that mountain, or across that ocean. Wooo! Golly Gee! I can spend hours running around doing nothing! OK fine, been there, done that. Usually it is simply more landscape with more of the same content, or just empty. I like have myself funneled where the content is. Some liked the EQ2 crafting system, fighting with the UI to make one single product after 1-5 minutes of juggling buttons. I personally like this one. Not tedious, straightforward, and not incredibly time consuming to act as its own second game. I got the hardcore playstyle out of my system with Eq1 and Eq2. Yes, raiding on set times, 3-4 days a week, 3-8 hours each raid depending on the content and time of the week etc. DKP rules, guild rules for AA's and equipment, the whole 9 yards. It gets old. I turns into a job. I personally don't have the time to spend in game anymore as I used to so I enjoy this model of MMO. Is it for everyone? Probably not. Does that make it bad, or a failure, or less of a game? Probably not. If YOU do not like the game....I am sorry. Move on. It does not make it any less of an enjoyable game for thousands of others. You are not right or wrong in your opinion...you just have YOUR opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matic Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) bet Bioware is fine with that, the Casual Players are what pay the bills, the Hardcore are simply the vocal minority. Edited January 17, 2012 by Matic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykologist Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 They are happy with it, dumbing down the game to get more subs. It's the same way in academia - school is so easy now, any idiot can get a degree. I would have loved to see some of these students in school before the 70s, just like I would have loved to see some of these gamers in vanilla wow ddo or eq. I raided hardcore in Vanilla WoW, and enjoy SWTOR. The difference? I've realized MMOs like Vanilla WoW or SWG (Pre-NGE) are long dead now, and most likely won't ever be back. Acceptance is the first step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiriensoul Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I raid twice a week and do PvP nightly with my guild. I am enjoying this game a lot and am resubscribing. I would not trust these forums for an accurate view of the community. It's true tho, casuals love it (Not everyone ofcourse) but i would dare say the majority. Hardcore needs everything to be bugfree, fixed, perfect and what not. But hardcore is a small minority, in every game. So i don't care... But too bad for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Um I hate to burst your bubble but all the old EQ players that I know rather like SWTOR now it might be that many of us are in the 40's and 50's but we enjoy this game. i know a couple of everquest players that came over as a large group, and they all have multiple toons on SWTOR, and do all the endgame content there is atm, and none are complaining or saying their leaving. i would say these are hardcore players none of them left their beloved everquest for WoW. but have for SWTOR, kinda says something on a side note, none even look at the froums, they so hardcore they play the game instead of writing on a message board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_giordino Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not rage quitting but I just unsubscribed - I have been playing PC games since the 80s. I will not be paying to beta test an unpolished game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobieone Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because every MMO company out there knows you can not possibly develop enough content to keep people playing that play a game over 40 hours a week. It is next to impossible to develop anything that isn't just pure grinding. That is why Blizzard has changed the direction of their game and are developing Titan as a casual based game that will be even more casual than WoW or SWTOR. They know it is impossible to compete with WoW in this department and you will see fewer and fewer games come out that are focused on hardcore types. It sucks for that segment of gamer but these companies go where the money is and that is with the casual type gamer. actually it is and companies used to do it all the time its called a mmo with sandbox elements like what eve online is currently and what swg used to be before nge. they don't develop those because the learning curve on most them are too tough for the kiddies, plus people no longer have imagination to truly look and have thier own adventures in an open world anymore and needs their hands held in these theme park mmo's which makes players into drones guided by the devs whim and only do content that is given to them. some of my best times in an mmo was pre nge swg roaming all over a planet looking for a rare pet tame. or going on rancor hunts to help guild mates harvest crafting mats. those were at times more epic than any raid in a dungeon and chaotic.! best of all never had to worry about level restrictions or content too much everything was right there. crafting had meaning since everything was player made, could mix skills from different classes to truly have a unqiue character instead of a cookie cutter one mmo's have. this is what all recent and future mmo's are seriously lacking. lately i have moved from hard core play to casual due to real life time restrictions. and personally i like this game a lot solely due to the well written story. but sadly after the story the game to began to fell more closed and and restrictive than it had initially. and like this games space combat feels like i'm on rails with no place left to explore or have my own adventures in between content patches. if there were mission terminal offering random class specific missions like swg had it would fill in the void. so for now (hopefully temporarily) i canceled my sub and i actually went back to subbing to Star trek online despite its free to play now. because its space combat actually works and not on rails, a lot more variety of things to do after reaching level cap. at least with their genesis system i can go into an exploration where it randomly generates missions for my character and gives me something else to do when i don't feel like raids or pvp while waiting for new content. plus it make you feel like your having your own adventure out side the main story lines. the game just feels more open and less claustrophobic than swtor. swtor is an oversimplified theme park mmo that takes 90% of your characters freedom and choices away and strictly guide down a very specific planned path for each character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaluria Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Really? Examples please. Other than WoW, all other subscriber-based MMO's fail on this format. And WoW was not nearly as casual when it was building its subscriber-base. If it had been as casual as it is now when it released, it never would have been half as popular. You have no idea what you are talking about, WoW was billed as causal from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Probably because hard core players have played almost all this game has to offer and we see no value in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltorio Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I would not trust any forums for an accurate view of the community. Edited for clarity, and quoted for truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatguybil Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 God lord... 12 hours a day for the first 1-2 months? Playing 4 hours a day being self described casual player? If you play more then 2 hours a day 4x a week you are not casual. If you clear a planets worth of content in one sitting, you are not casual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOONERFREAK Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I an a MMO vet and was use to 4 nights of raiding a week and just added a 60 day time care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadCapper Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)? I think all generalizations are false including this one. Been playing MMO's forever and loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconDroid Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I guess if hardcore means grind to 50 in a week, get battlemaster gear in two weeks, and cry on the forums in week three then you are right OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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