Casual = Happy and Re-Subscribing; Hardcore = Rage Quit

[Aloro]

Pretty sure being casual is based on the amount of time you have to dedicate to play, not how long you've been playing.

 

There isn't a common consensus on what "casual" or "hardcore" mean, so there's always some confusion when people use these terms.

 

Most commonly, people refer to "casual" as meaning one of the following:

 

* Not playing many hours per day on average

* Not playing with a high degree of intensity

* Not deeply concerned with success in PvP/raiding

 

The problem is, these categories don't map onto each other perfectly. There are people who only play a few hours a day who are REALLY INTO IT, and calling them anything but hardcore would make them explode in paroxysms of rage. But then there are people who play for eight or ten hours a day, who remain low level, and who have no interest in raiding or PvP; despite the time they put in, they might view themselves as very casual players.

 

Overall, I think "intensity" is the best way to measure whether someone's casual or hardcore. The more intensely you care about something, the more hardcore you're likely to be about it.

[Putok]

I think Bioware would be better served by improving quest mechanics and adding more story based activities at 50 than adding more flashpoints and operations.

 

Currently, the actual gameplay mechanics of most quests are dull, dull, dull, dull, dull. I'm still enjoying leveling, but it does start to feel grindy after you get your 20th "Kill 20 of those dirty Republic-backed rebels/aliens/militia and blow up 5 of their supply crates/guns/artifacts/toilets" on a given planet. If they wanted to implement quests with so little mechanical variety, they should have made planets shorter, or varied the environments more on specific planets. I notice most of them start to feel grind about 1/2-2/3rds of the way through, because you are seeing the exact same quests in the same exact environment for the umpteenth time.

 

Take a look at what WoW did with questing in Cata, and try to bring that level of questing gameplay into the fold. The voiceovers are great, but they can only carry you for so long. What Blizzard did VERY right with Cataclysm is breaking up a lot of the mechanical monotony to a significant degree. There are always only so many different sorts of quests you can do, but with Cataclysm, the monotony of kill and fetch is broken up at very opportune times with different and unique styles of quests to help reduce the feeling of grind. If you could do this, it would dramatically improve playability, and replayability.

 

At level 50, I really think there should be more story-based things to do.

 

Having an endgame based on the tried-and-true gear grind is NOT going to carry you to long term success. Frankly, you will NEVER be able to out-WoW WoW in the endgame. It is a gear grind game that has a larger playerbase, more content, and more polish. You won't be able to convince most raiders to give up raiding in WoW to come raid in this game.

 

What you CAN do is aim to fill a completely different niche. You're on the right track, I think. I'm playing both this game and WoW, and doing different things in each. I'm concerned that in two months I'll be left with the choice of hopping on the gear-grind treadmill, or doing the same dull quests for the 8th time.

 

Having player decisions make more of an impact on quest/planet outcomes would help too. Dragon Age: Origins had fantastic replay value precisely BECAUSE your choices really mattered. There were quite a few different ways to play the game that lead to you doing very, very different things.

[sosolidshoe]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I don't accept the premise. I played UO, SWG, EvE-Online, LotRO, and STO, with the most time spent in the MMO that most MMO gamers are too sissy for: EvE. Yet I'm thoroughly enjoying myself, haven't had any major technical issues, and I've even taken to the space game which I initially thought when I first heard it described would be a bit rubbish.

 

I think what you mean to say is; "the whinging locusts who swarm from game to game and complain endlessly about everything are extremely dissatisfied, as they always are". They'll filter back to their precious WoW in time, to ruin their forums for a couple of months until they get bored and pull the same stunt in GW2, and whatever MMO comes after that.

 

Three days to go, better get your(general, nonspecific) fill of trolling these forums before then, unless you're(general, nonspecific) one of the total sadsacks that apparently subs to games just to be able to keep moaning continually.

[gregordunbar]

You're not an "MMO-vet" if you didn't play Neverwinter Nights.

 

Correction: You're not an "MMO-vet" if you didn't play Neverwinter Nights and got your first bill and almost died of a F***ING HEART ATTACK!

[Restepor]

I'm a casual player, but I've played more than I care to admit for my lower level, but I love the game. Also I'm on act two, level 40, have enjoyed the PvP and just about everything else about the game.

[imtrick]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied.

 

Trolls on either side are going to try to sound like they're authorities on this game.

 

I'm an MMO veteran going way back (still have my box for the first EQ expansion around here somewhere, though the ones before that must have crumbled into dust). I've been through enough launches to know that this hasn't been a bad launch by any means, and that anyone who thinks it has probably hasn't seen the launch of anything that came out before Rift. I also know I'm enjoying the game.

 

So, no, I think people who just want to trash the game are going to try to portray themselves as experts. That doesn't mean that anyone who's a vet or a hardcore player hates the game, and I'm sure that's not the case at all.

Edited January 18, 2012 by imtrick

[DJCobbSalad]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts?

 

 

This is most likely due to the fact that hardcore MMO players have already reached max level on at least one toon and discovered the unplayability of endgame, whereas casual players still haven't broken level 30 on any toon yet and thus aren't yet exposed to the worst problems with the game.

 

It's also important to keep in mind, that those trashing it (myself included) are doing so because we really just wish the game were better, but are having a hard time seeing how all the things that are wrong with it can ever be fixed. We don't hate the game, we hate that the game didn't live up to expectations. I personally loved the game up until about lvl 25 or so, then I started to notice a slow degradation in the quality of the gameplay, and then once you hit 50 it's like dropping off a cliff, the toon that you just spent hours/days/weeks of your life investing in is now a worthless pile of poo with nothing to do. So while the hate is definitely over the top, it's not because they want to bring the game down, it's that they're very frustrated that the game has let them down by being so poorly developed as you go further into it.

Edited January 18, 2012 by DJCobbSalad

[Keldain]

I'm a Guild Wars and WoW veteran who is planning on resubscribing. I hope the OP is right in his assessment....because the people that are"hardcore" and want everything to difficult, the barrier to entry to be high and for raiding to be an exclusive little club where everyone that does it can sit around stroking each other's epeen...they are a tiny, tiny minority of the potential playerbase who have ruined more than one MMO when their vocal spewings got mistaken by devs as the will of the majority - who then catered for them and alienated the larger portion of the playerbase (while that vocal minority still complain that everything is too casual).

 

I hope those hardcore elitist, unaccountably angry snobs all do bugger off to another game - because if they're gone it's more likely that this game will still have a dedicated, happy following years from now that are still populating the servers I play on.

[LordRelyks]

NOT LIKE WOW SO CANT BE HARDCORE!

 

Good god, get over it, if you're a hardcore gamer, its not really a good thing to call yourself.

[TheSwamper]

I usually play 4+ hours a night, even on work nights, and I love the game.

Does this mean I am a hardcore player who enjoys the game?

 

This.

 

I have 3 characters in the mid 30's and one at 21. Am I hardcore for the hours I've put in or casual simply because I like the game?

[marshalleck]

This.

 

I have 3 characters in the mid 30's and one at 21. Am I hardcore for the hours I've put in or casual simply because I like the game?

if you don't have a 50 after almost a month you're casual

[EternusIV]

I'm casual and wouldn't exactly call my decision to unsub a "ragequit."

 

I was going to resubscribe but will check back into the game a few months from now.

Edited January 18, 2012 by EternusIV

[Keldain]

This.

 

I have 3 characters in the mid 30's and one at 21. Am I hardcore for the hours I've put in or casual simply because I like the game?

 

I think the answer is that you're casual because you disagree with the kind of people who think that "casual" is an insult. This seems to be their main criteria for judging people...I'm hardcore, I don't like this, you like this - you're a stinking casual.

 

Although sometimes I think they use the word "casual" to mean "someone who enjoys a game rather than rages at its percieved weaknesses".

 

Hopefully when the free months runs out a lot of these people will go back to trolling the Blizzard forums.

[Sai-to]

I'm a "MMO veteran" and "hardcore", and I'm subscribing for the 6 month option.

[marshalleck]

I think the answer is that you're casual because you disagree with the kind of people who think that "casual" is an insult. This seems to be their main criteria for judging people...I'm hardcore, I don't like this, you like this - you're a stinking casual.

 

Although sometimes I think they use the word "casual" to mean "someone who enjoys a game rather than rages at its percieved weaknesses".

 

Hopefully when the free months runs out a lot of these people will go back to trolling the Blizzard forums.

 

casuals tend to have short attention span and no sense for maintaining upward/forward momentum == four characters all floating around mid levels, and more on the way up

Edited January 18, 2012 by marshalleck

[Ansultares]

The game is at it's best in Act 1. It starts to go downhill after that.

 

Most casual players aren't out of Act 1 yet. Some of them never will be.

Definitely seems to be the case.

 

Just wait until all these alt-o-holics hit Taris or some other mid-level planet. Try consecutively grinding characters through there like these guys grind alts through starter planets currently.

[Eria]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I think you see both quitting equally. I'm a casual player (now that college has started again) and I'm debating whether or not to re-up. The fact that at end game it becomes a huge gear grind is a turn off. It's hard to find groups when you have a limited amount of time to log in, and this is because they went with a roll based class system. You are forced to find a healer and a tank, and sometimes you just can't. There aren't enough options of things to do if it's the case that you cannot find a group in a timely manner. You can do Warzones, dailies (which mind you, you have to sit through loading screen after loading screen to get to where you want to go), or space combat, which isn't everyones cup of tea. You are already seeing elitist when forming hard mode groups.

 

I have never been for a dungeon finder or dual spec, for various reasons, but my opinion is starting to be swayed.

[artilleryshell]

Trend, perhaps, but i don't think the statement is fair, really, to hardcore people or "casuals" either.

 

Condemned is fairly hardcore, and they seem overall impressed. On the flip side, my buddy started playing, he's quitting because he had to start grinding and well, he's too casual to dig on grinding badges at 50.

 

 

The trend seems to be that the people quitting are former wow raiders and are unimpressed with the amount of endgame content as well as bugs that make endgame more of a chore than it needs to be. Wow's endgame is working and there's alot more to it, so why not play that, they seem to think. Its a fairly reasonable position, too. If one ice cream shop had 50 flavors and each one tasted okay, if a little stock, and the other one has two flavors, and they taste very wonderful, but the ice cream machine regularly breaks down, people are going to take the path of convienience while the second ice cream shop owner gets his <edit> together.

 

We aren't loosing enough subscribers that the game will not be further developed. It remains fantasticly succsessful, and as our ice cream shop fixes its machine and starts adding new flavors.. well, people may come back.

 

 

Sorry fanboys, if my position was not extreme enough to make you happy.

 

Sorry haters, if my position was not extreme enough to make you happy.

 

Oftentimes, in fact, the more nominal, baseline position is more accurate and logically sound

[Altin]

The game should have incubated for longer before hatching IMO. DAMN YOU EA and impatient gamers! But still an awesome game loving playing casually, look forward to seeing what they do in the next couple of months. Crosses fingers for Jaessa light side romance....

[RossaK]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

Because casuals and ultra casuals are the biggest cash cows. You can be a soccer mom put in a few hours a week and still easily reach endgame with everything you need to do 'hardcore' raiding. This will keep them subscribing for years thinking they've finally found a great game.

Edited January 18, 2012 by RossaK

[Zingas]

Uhm, where do I fit in? I used to be a hardcore player, and I have the free time to be one, but I'm definitely casual when it comes to SWTOR.

 

I just cancelled too.

[Drakinor]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I am not a casual player per se. I played wow from launch to firelands, also played EQ I and II, RIFT, STO, DDO, LOTRO, EVE, Earth and Beyond, Matrix online () WWII Online, World of Tanks, should I go on? I raided in WoW for years, PvPd in many of these games (some of them are only PvP) and while this game is NOT by any means perfect it is solid. I am having a blast with it. Yes it has issues, yes there are bugs, yes there are things that need to be fixed but if people look at it objectively along with its older counterparts, they would see that ANY MMO has similar issues so soon after launch.

 

While some people bring up very very valid points for disliking the game, and thats fine, many people are obvious fan boys who want a rehash of their favorite game with shiny new graphics, others are mad because Bioware/EA didnt simply throw out all the things that did work and make a completely new from the ground up game within the MMO genre. I think the biggest problem that people have with this game is THEIR preconceived delusions of grandeur that were not met. Many people looked at very untrue press from unreliable sites and got these ideas in there head of what they game should be. Now they are mad that it isnt that. If you look at it openly and not with a certain expectation of exactly what every detail should be you likely enjoy it.

 

While this game is not for everyone, I have a feeling most players will enjoy it for years to come. Remember, the discontent will post many times more often than the content on the forum. Dont believe me? Look at any successful MMO's forums and the majority of what you will see is complaints and "this game is dead/dying" threads although the facts and numbers show quite the opposite. Remember folks, DO NOT believe everything you read on the internet.

[Meiu]

Hardcore player. Staying with this game. It has problems with UI and a few bugs but the force is strong with this MMO. In time it will only get better.

[ihateyouall]

I raid twice a week and do PvP nightly with my guild. I am enjoying this game a lot and am resubscribing.

 

I would not trust these forums for an accurate view of the community.

 

lol the casual says he is subbing...

[marshalleck]

Casual players enjoy the game so much they spend all day on the forums defending it from "haters" instead of playing it.