[Official High Resolution Textures Post] Can we get a clarification on this?

[Bolthus]

That is not hyperbole. That is ambiguous.

 

"we are adding the best graphics ever seen in a computer game, these are photo realistic textures that will literally blow you away!"

 

That's is hyperbole.

 

Why do you people expect them to say anything more about this? He's responded twice explained what they believe is the problem and what they will be doing to fix it. He has given you a time frame of sorts in which to expect this fix in whatever form it takes.

 

What are you hoping for? Stevo to pop in and say , hey guys all the false advertising talk and the I'm going to quit in capital letters has convinced us! We were particularly swayed by some peoples use of large red fonts. We will be adding the hq textures tomorrow.

 

Sure it would nice if they up and reversed their decision but it's not likely is it.

 

I really hope you weren't enjoying the game. While it's commendable to stand up and make a stand for something important, to sacrifice your fun because your robe doesn't look nice and the man didn't explain it well enough for you is a bit sad.

 

 

Here you are, as I promised to before, the screenshots of the crappy-blurry textures we "enjoy" today. All settings at maximum, even the antialiasing. You can compare this grraphics with what was showed in the new video. If my game doesn't look like that when that pach (1.2) is running, it will be FALSE ADVERTISEMENT.

 

I have closer pics if you need them. Buy you can tell the difference between my character and my companion easily. Cool lvl 32 boots looking like brown crap.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ytextures.jpg/

[vindianajones]

There are some things I "get" about this and some things that I don't.

 

I get that reducing texture quality in general increases performance. That's a no-brainer.

 

I don't get why a high/extreme option for players whose computers can handle it is not available. This just makes me feel like the engine is so poorly optimized that even a several thousand dollar monster, brand new dual video card system can't handle some high res textures. This is not the fault of the user or his system.

 

I get that these things are complex and adding them in after the fact could end up being a ton of work. I don't know the complexities and intricacies of their code, so I shouldn't be judging it, but...

 

I don't get why they were here in beta and why they simply can't now add the option back in. What changed so much from beta when they apparently did have these high res textures that it is no longer possible to just put the option back in? And we're just talking about an option here. If you try turning it on and your FPS drops to 3 then by all means, go back to the current texture resolution.

 

If someone wants to tell me that I have no idea what I'm talking about and explain why, I'd be happy to hear it. I love this game, but some of the things coming out of the development team are just really confusing. Is the engine really so poor that they can't have high-res textures? There are already issues with high-end rigs seeing terrible performance. Is this a part of the bigger picture? I'm starting to think think there is a serious flaw with the game engine.

Edited January 20, 2012 by vindianajones

[Saiyek]

Without sounding silly, Have they any idea when the hi-res will be re-itroduced into the game?

 

The information is probably buried somewhere in the last few threads but it is an awful lot of information to sift through

Edited January 20, 2012 by Saiyek

[saltorio]

The textures were there, now they are only available through cutscenes and it wasn't only during beta I played 35 lvls of after release lvls with high ress textures and all of a sudden they were gone.

 

Umm... no you didn't. I've was part of the first early access group, and have always had all settings to maximum on my 6 month old gaming PC. We never had high-res (ie: cutscene) textures in normal gameplay since release. I can't comment on the betas though.

 

Hyperbole does no one one either side of the argument any good.

[jadel]

Without sounding silly, Have they any idea when the hi-res will be re-itroduced into the game?

 

The information is probably buried somewhere in the last few threads but it is an awful lot of information to sift through

 

They said they will make a fix with patch 1.2 and that will come in the next two months. Not super detailed on either count but there you go.

 

Umm... no you didn't. I've was part of the first early access group, and have always had all settings to maximum on my 6 month old gaming PC. We never had high-res (ie: cutscene) textures in normal gameplay since release. I can't comment on the betas though.

 

Heh I had almost that written to that guy before, but I added a bunch of other stuff I subsequently decided wasnt appropriate and deleted the post.

 

As I promised, the screenshots of the crappy-blurry textures we "enjoy" today. All settings at maximum, even the antialiasing. You can compare this grraphics with what was showed in the new video. If my game doesn't look like that when that pach (1.2) is running, it will be FALSE ADVERTISEMENT.

 

I couldnt get those same boots. My char portrait looks better than yours but its not the same gear so its not really relevant I guess.

 

Im not really sure what to tell you tbh. Yes your boots look crappy compared to the companion portrait but I still cant see what that has to do with false advertising. That is annoying, regrettable, frustrating etc but nothing more sinister.

There isnt anything in that video that shows gameplay footage with super fab HQ textures. The trooper at :34 has some cool armor but its not particularly HQ and It isnt even necessarily gameplay footage, the bit at the end of that section with the girl on the mounted cannon suggests that its not. The jedi guy is just ok (see previous screenshots).

 

Ive said it before but again, if everyone simply said that they arent happy with the graphics as they are and would like the HQ textures back I would be in complete agreement. Its this fixation on false advertising and making claims at the BBB and getting refunds that I find disagreeable and thus far unsubstantiated.

[Saiyek]

They said they will make a fix with patch 1.2 and that will come in the next two months. Not super detailed on either count but there you go..

 

Thankyou :D

[Angelshooter]

They said they will make a fix with patch 1.2 and that will come in the next two months. Not super detailed on either count but there you go.

 

Im not really sure what to tell you tbh. Yes your boots look crappy compared to the companion portrait but I still cant see what that has to do with false advertising. That is annoying, regrettable, frustrating etc but nothing more sinister.

There isnt anything in that video that shows gameplay footage with super fab HQ textures. The trooper at :34 has some cool armor but its not particularly HQ and It isnt even necessarily gameplay footage, the bit at the end of that section with the girl on the mounted cannon suggests that its not. The jedi guy is just ok (see previous screenshots).

 

Ive said it before but again, if everyone simply said that they arent happy with the graphics as they are and would like the HQ textures back I would be in complete agreement. Its this fixation on false advertising and making claims at the BBB and getting refunds that I find disagreeable and thus far unsubstantiated.

 

check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqkSzHOzQj4

 

that is all gameplay. there is a stark difference between those graphics and the graphics we have now IMO.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Angelshooter

[Trigg]

Here you are, as I promised to before, the screenshots of the crappy-blurry textures we "enjoy" today. All settings at maximum, even the antialiasing. You can compare this grraphics with what was showed in the new video. If my game doesn't look like that when that pach (1.2) is running, it will be FALSE ADVERTISEMENT.

 

I have closer pics if you need them. Buy you can tell the difference between my character and my companion easily. Cool lvl 32 boots looking like brown crap.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...ytextures.jpg/

 

You do know AA does nothing to texture quality right. All it does is removes jagged lines on the edges of models. Which makes me question your knowledge in graphics altogether. Also, i can't believe people are still having this much of a problem and carry on complaining about this issue after it's already been addressed by the devs who have told us they are working on a way to fix it.

 

It's not like its game breaking. So far the character textures have not disheartened me in the slightest. The environment detail is just stunning and that fills up over 80% of your screen most of the time. So what they're using high res textures in the adverts. why should it make this much of a difference.

 

Whining for the sake of whining.

 

check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqkSzHOzQj4

 

that is all gameplay. there is a stark difference between those graphics and the graphics we have now IMO.

 

There's a difference between gameplay footage and in-game graphics. 'Gameplay' footage must have the following:

 

a UI, player/human input.

 

It is a player playing the game, as in gameplay, seen in the game as it has been released to the public. BW have the right to change anything they want before it's available to buy, so anything during beta here doesn't count.

 

There is nothing to suggest any of those videos are gameplay footage.

 

In game graphics is when a scripted/set-up event is played out or recorded as part of a sequence using the graphics available by the games engine. Which they are, as you see them perfectly during cutscenes. i.e. when in the game while you're playing it can you kill an enemy with one swipe of your lightsaber? when can you take out one large enemy with a single rocket? or kill a jedi with one ambush?

 

Granted I'd like the game to have high res textures available but there's no need to keep up with this negative statement of false advertisement.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Trigg

[Angelshooter]

You do know AA does nothing to texture quality right. All it does is removes jagged lines on the edges of models. Which makes me question your knowledge in graphics altogether. Also, i can't believe people are still having this much of a problem and carry on complaining about this issue after it's already been addressed by the devs who have told us they are working on a way to fix it.

 

It's not like its game breaking. So far the character textures have not disheartened me in the slightest. The environment detail is just stunning and that fills up over 80% of your screen most of the time. So what they're using high res textures in the adverts. why should it make this much of a difference.

 

Whining for the sake of whining.

 

 

 

There's a difference between gameplay footage and in-game graphics. 'Gameplay' footage must have the following:

 

a UI, player/human input.

 

It is a player playing the game, as in gameplay, seen in the game as it has been released to the public. BW have the right to change anything they want before it's available to buy, so anything during beta here doesn't count.

 

There is nothing to suggest any of those videos are gameplay footage.

 

In game graphics is when a scripted/set-up event is played out or recorded as part of a sequence using the graphics available by the games engine. Which they are, as you see them perfectly during cutscenes. i.e. when in the game while you're playing it can you kill an enemy with one swipe of your lightsaber? when can you take out one large enemy with a single rocket? or kill a jedi with one ambush?

 

Granted I'd like the game to have high res textures available but there's no need to keep up with this negative statement of false advertisement.

 

I suppose you are correct, I'm just a little disappointed with the textures that's all. (and for the record I never said anything about false advertising)

[BeeblesTV]

Keep this alive.

[Eszi]

It's funny.

High res textures were in beta, and I actually had better fps in the beta.

Also, just make it optional ffs, so that people with hardware capable of running better textures can enjoy them...unless it's just your engine that can't draw more then 5 people at once without lagging itself to pieces, and would cause a black hole to appear if it had to render more then 5 people with hi res textures

[DrewG]

So I'm guessing the bit I read about the high res textures being released in patch 1.2 around Q1 is now not going to happen?

[Nodens]

im wondering if there is a way for them to turn off the streaming and just send out a 10gig patch or whatever size it would take to allow me to handle the rendering myself. i dont pay a thousand dollars to have my computer working at half mast. i mean come on why the hell even bother with this kind of copyright protection.

 

this kind of copyright protection is the worst kind you could use. if i could render all the assets myself i could tweak models and such and make them even sharper. but no theres no files to increase texture sizes or anything like that so im forced to look at mud i guess on the plus everything but what im staring at looks fine, and seems you borked your graphics on the cutscenes there all muddy now to.

 

 

im not sure that may be the madness of swaping corso with hello kitty talking and yes thats possible if you can get access to the textures and such

 

All textures are already on your disk. This whole copy protection/remote rendering thing is just hilarious and technically absurd. You need to understand what texture streaming is but I will explain while answering the following quote.

 

 

Um what now? Did you mean to post in the crazy conspiracy theory thread? Theres no texture streaming mate theres just some annoying texture compression or "atlas" as they call it.

 

Agreed. The "conspiracy theory thread" is just utter garbage. Do not make statements on things you do not know about though. There is "texture streaming" and it has nothing to do with remote rendering or pulling textures from a remote server/location.

 

Texture streaming is the name of a technique used by 99% of the 3d game engines out there. To further elaborate it is the process of loading lower detail textures when you initially draw a scene (mipmaps) and then load the higher resolution ones as the camera draws near the object (or not load them at all if the camera never gets close enough). This way you maximize the performance of the engine by utilizing higher resolution textures when the eye can actualy perceive them and lower quality ones when it would make no difference. The increment in detail may also come in steps whcih is even more effective (several quality mipmaps are utilized and each is "streamed" as/when needed).

 

The effect that you see in some games that objects have less detail for a second (usually under heavy load) and then suddenly become crisp sharp, is caused by texture streaming.

When you alt-tab out of SWTOR and back in, that logo image you are seeing is there for one reason only. That is to hide the actual process of the texture streaming from the end user because it is entirely unoptimized to the point where it is actualy crawling. If you go to a heavy crowded area like the fleet or Illum and alt-tab out of the game and back in, you will notice that the texture streaming actually is so slow that the effect it produces is visible even after the logo goes off.

 

Now regarding the Texture Atlas technique. Someone already explained it in the previous thread but I will try to simplify it even more so everyone can understand it. Textures are like images that are applied upon 3d models. The Texture Atlas is technique in which you take a lot of small textures and piece them together much like a collage. The benefit of this is that you don't need to load the texture for every single one of them but instead you can assign coordinates on the collage you made (the altas). For example you have a table, a chair and a vase. The table and the chair are made of wood and the vase from porcelain. Instead of loading 3 different textures to assign to those 3 models, you make an atlas which consists of only 2 textures, wood and porcelain. You assign table and chair to the wood texture and the vase to the procelain one. It's that simple. This allows you to batch draw calls.

 

So let's see what exactly being said and decipher it:

During development and testing of The Old Republic, our priorities were to ensure the game looked great and performed well. In testing, we discovered that using our 'maximum resolution' textures on in-game characters during normal gameplay could cause severe performance issues, even on powerful PCs. There were a variety of possible options to help improve performance, but one that was explored and ultimately implemented used what is known as a 'texture atlas'.

 

This translates to: "The game engine's 3d subsystem performance is abysmal and entirely unoptimized that it can't handle our high resolution textures being drawn for every character on the scene so we decided to use a 'texture atlas'." Now that on it's own doesn't say much on why we don't have high res. But the this part that follows does:

 

With our 'maximum resolution' textures a large number of draw calls are made per character, but that wasn't practical for normal gameplay, especially when a large number of characters were in one place; the number of draw calls made on your client would multiply very quickly. The solution was to 'texture atlas' - essentially to put a number of smaller textures together into one larger texture. This reduces the number of draw calls dramatically and allows the client to render characters quicker, which improves performance dramatically.

 

Notice the part where it says "essentially to put a number of smaller textures together" and I'll elaborate.

To draw an object on the screen, the engine has to issue a "draw call" to the graphics API (Application Programming Interface), DirectX in this case. The more draw calls you do less performance you get due to the CPU overhead. Simply put each draw call needs a bit of your CPU and when you have many, they add up. So there is a process that is called "batching". This process allows you to draw many objects with a single "draw call" making things much faster. The "Texture Atlas" technique that I explained above allows you to do just that, "draw call batching".

 

So now with all this knowledge let's translate the above quote: "We had to use texture atlases to reduce the draw calls. But because our engine could not handle high or multi resolution atlases as well and/or it's not cost-effective to implement and/or optimize it, we ALSO had to use low resolution ones which again do not perform properly as we can see of fleet and Illum because the engine needs work that can be done later as x-y-z has higher priority and for now we've masked the issues."

 

 

The above is overly simplified in terms anyone can understand. For the technically inclined you can read the whitepaper as published by nvidia here:

http://download.nvidia.com/developer/NVTextureSuite/Atlas_Tools/Texture_Atlas_Whitepaper.pdf

 

And a research paper on the technique here:

http://www.jhu.edu/digitalhammurabi/research/2004_01_sta.pdf

 

 

Bottom line: The engine needs work as this doesn't affect only the high resolution textures as I've said before. And imho, Bioware could choose to communicate with the community without a PR department filtering everything. I like the game and I want it to succeed.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Nodens

[jadel]

So I'm guessing the bit I read about the high res textures being released in patch 1.2 around Q1 is now not going to happen?

 

Theres been nothing to suggest that. The assumption is still that a fix will be implemented in 1.2. The exact details arent clear but certainly some improvement.

 

Just scroll back to the regular distance and enjoy the game until then. The time for close ups will come.

[Sanxion]

That is not hyperbole. That is ambiguous.

 

"we are adding the best graphics ever seen in a computer game, these are photo realistic textures that will literally blow you away!"

 

That's is hyperbole.

 

Why do you people expect them to say anything more about this? He's responded twice explained what they believe is the problem and what they will be doing to fix it. He has given you a time frame of sorts in which to expect this fix in whatever form it takes.

 

What are you hoping for? Stevo to pop in and say , hey guys all the false advertising talk and the I'm going to quit in capital letters has convinced us! We were particularly swayed by some peoples use of large red fonts. We will be adding the hq textures tomorrow.

 

Sure it would nice if they up and reversed their decision but it's not likely is it.

 

I really hope you weren't enjoying the game. While it's commendable to stand up and make a stand for something important, to sacrifice your fun because your robe doesn't look nice and the man didn't explain it well enough for you is a bit sad.

 

Best shoot me for the incorrect usage of a word. I hold my hands up to the word police. Then your response degenerates into an emotional statement followed by unnecessary sarcasm.

 

You have been quite level headed so far so it seems a shame.

 

Particularly as you are clearly vested in the positive outcome of this thread like myself and hope the devs do implement an acceptable resolution. If you'd read my previous posts you'd see this is just one of a number of issues I have with the game hence I've not subscribed for now.

 

Normally I wouldn't give a response like yours the time of day. However it provides a bump so yay.

[JediKabuto]

There are a couple of issues at work here.

 

i - Some of the textures are just low resolution. This applies to characters and environments alike. This is partly bad art and partly the atlas solution.

 

ii - On characters, most of the gear is designed for the tiny man body type (Malavai Quinn).

He looks mostly OK in everything. On the bigger body types gear looks much worse. The method of scaling the textures to body type needs to be looked at. Having all the gear look good for the tiny people and garbage on the big guys is poor.

 

 

And finally. People care much more about what they look like on screen and not what everyone else looks like. As an interim fix you could simply render the players (and companions) in high res, to them only, on the client side. I know this is somewhat of a cop out but I think this would appease many complaints.

 

This would also make the story mode cut scenes a much less jarring experience.

Edited January 21, 2012 by JediKabuto

[Sanxion]

There are a couple of issues at work here.

 

i - Some of the textures are just low resolution. This applies to characters and environments alike. This is partly bad art and partly the atlas solution.

 

ii - On characters, most of the gear is designed for the tiny man body type (Malavai Quinn).

He looks mostly OK in everything. On the bigger body types gear looks much worse. The method of scaling the textures to body type needs to be looked at. Having all the gear look good for the tiny people and garbage on the big guys is poor.

 

 

And finally. People care much more about what they look like on screen and not what everyone else looks like. As an interim fix you could simply render the players (and companions) in high res, to them only, on the client side. I know this is somewhat of a cop out but I think this would appease many complaints.

 

This would also make the story mode cut scenes a much less jarring experience.

 

 

I agree with this. I think it's the bare minimum a AAA game of this type should do given the other games in the same genre and the technical ability of the engines they are on.

[Nanoling]

All textures are already on your disk. This whole copy protection/remote rendering thing is just hilarious and technically absurd. You need to understand what texture streaming is but I will explain while answering the following quote.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. The "conspiracy theory thread" is just utter garbage. Do not make statements on things you do not know about though. There is "texture streaming" and it has nothing to do with remote rendering or pulling textures from a remote server/location.

 

Texture streaming is the name of a technique used by 99% of the 3d game engines out there. To further elaborate it is the process of loading lower detail textures when you initially draw a scene (mipmaps) and then load the higher resolution ones as the camera draws near the object (or not load them at all if the camera never gets close enough). This way you maximize the performance of the engine by utilizing higher resolution textures when the eye can actualy perceive them and lower quality ones when it would make no difference. The increment in detail may also come in steps whcih is even more effective (several quality mipmaps are utilized and each is "streamed" as/when needed).

 

The effect that you see in some games that objects have less detail for a second (usually under heavy load) and then suddenly become crisp sharp, is caused by texture streaming.

When you alt-tab out of SWTOR and back in, that logo image you are seeing is there for one reason only. That is to hide the actual process of the texture streaming from the end user because it is entirely unoptimized to the point where it is actualy crawling. If you go to a heavy crowded area like the fleet or Illum and alt-tab out of the game and back in, you will notice that the texture streaming actually is so slow that the effect it produces is visible even after the logo goes off.

 

Now regarding the Texture Atlas technique. Someone already explained it in the previous thread but I will try to simplify it even more so everyone can understand it. Textures are like images that are applied upon 3d models. The Texture Atlas is technique in which you take a lot of small textures and piece them together much like a collage. The benefit of this is that you don't need to load the texture for every single one of them but instead you can assign coordinates on the collage you made (the altas). For example you have a table, a chair and a vase. The table and the chair are made of wood and the vase from porcelain. Instead of loading 3 different textures to assign to those 3 models, you make an atlas which consists of only 2 textures, wood and porcelain. You assign table and chair to the wood texture and the vase to the procelain one. It's that simple. This allows you to batch draw calls.

 

So let's see what exactly being said and decipher it:

 

 

This translates to: "The game engine's 3d subsystem performance is abysmal and entirely unoptimized that it can't handle our high resolution textures being drawn for every character on the scene so we decided to use a 'texture atlas'." Now that on it's own doesn't say much on why we don't have high res. But the this part that follows does:

 

 

 

Notice the part where it says "essentially to put a number of smaller textures together" and I'll elaborate.

To draw an object on the screen, the engine has to issue a "draw call" to the graphics API (Application Programming Interface), DirectX in this case. The more draw calls you do less performance you get due to the CPU overhead. Simply put each draw call needs a bit of your CPU and when you have many, they add up. So there is a process that is called "batching". This process allows you to draw many objects with a single "draw call" making things much faster. The "Texture Atlas" technique that I explained above allows you to do just that, "draw call batching".

 

So now with all this knowledge let's translate the above quote: "We had to use texture atlases to reduce the draw calls. But because our engine could not handle high or multi resolution atlases as well and/or it's not cost-effective to implement and/or optimize it, we ALSO had to use low resolution ones which again do not perform properly as we can see of fleet and Illum because the engine needs work that can be done later as x-y-z has higher priority and for now we've masked the issues."

 

 

The above is overly simplified in terms anyone can understand. For the technically inclined you can read the whitepaper as published by nvidia here:

http://download.nvidia.com/developer/NVTextureSuite/Atlas_Tools/Texture_Atlas_Whitepaper.pdf

 

And a research paper on the technique here:

http://www.jhu.edu/digitalhammurabi/research/2004_01_sta.pdf

 

 

Bottom line: The engine needs work as this doesn't affect only the high resolution textures as I've said before. And imho, Bioware could choose to communicate with the community without a PR department filtering everything. I like the game and I want it to succeed.

 

 

This post needs to have a link on the front page of the thread. This is one of the best thought out, technically insightful and yet easily understandable posts i have seen in a long time.

[Cicatrize]

All textures are already on your disk. This whole copy protection/remote rendering thing is just hilarious and technically absurd. You need to understand what texture streaming is but I will explain while answering the following quote.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. The "conspiracy theory thread" is just utter garbage. Do not make statements on things you do not know about though. There is "texture streaming" and it has nothing to do with remote rendering or pulling textures from a remote server/location.

 

Texture streaming is the name of a technique used by 99% of the 3d game engines out there. To further elaborate it is the process of loading lower detail textures when you initially draw a scene (mipmaps) and then load the higher resolution ones as the camera draws near the object (or not load them at all if the camera never gets close enough). This way you maximize the performance of the engine by utilizing higher resolution textures when the eye can actualy perceive them and lower quality ones when it would make no difference. The increment in detail may also come in steps whcih is even more effective (several quality mipmaps are utilized and each is "streamed" as/when needed).

 

The effect that you see in some games that objects have less detail for a second (usually under heavy load) and then suddenly become crisp sharp, is caused by texture streaming.

When you alt-tab out of SWTOR and back in, that logo image you are seeing is there for one reason only. That is to hide the actual process of the texture streaming from the end user because it is entirely unoptimized to the point where it is actualy crawling. If you go to a heavy crowded area like the fleet or Illum and alt-tab out of the game and back in, you will notice that the texture streaming actually is so slow that the effect it produces is visible even after the logo goes off.

 

Now regarding the Texture Atlas technique. Someone already explained it in the previous thread but I will try to simplify it even more so everyone can understand it. Textures are like images that are applied upon 3d models. The Texture Atlas is technique in which you take a lot of small textures and piece them together much like a collage. The benefit of this is that you don't need to load the texture for every single one of them but instead you can assign coordinates on the collage you made (the altas). For example you have a table, a chair and a vase. The table and the chair are made of wood and the vase from porcelain. Instead of loading 3 different textures to assign to those 3 models, you make an atlas which consists of only 2 textures, wood and porcelain. You assign table and chair to the wood texture and the vase to the procelain one. It's that simple. This allows you to batch draw calls.

 

So let's see what exactly being said and decipher it:

 

 

This translates to: "The game engine's 3d subsystem performance is abysmal and entirely unoptimized that it can't handle our high resolution textures being drawn for every character on the scene so we decided to use a 'texture atlas'." Now that on it's own doesn't say much on why we don't have high res. But the this part that follows does:

 

 

 

Notice the part where it says "essentially to put a number of smaller textures together" and I'll elaborate.

To draw an object on the screen, the engine has to issue a "draw call" to the graphics API (Application Programming Interface), DirectX in this case. The more draw calls you do less performance you get due to the CPU overhead. Simply put each draw call needs a bit of your CPU and when you have many, they add up. So there is a process that is called "batching". This process allows you to draw many objects with a single "draw call" making things much faster. The "Texture Atlas" technique that I explained above allows you to do just that, "draw call batching".

 

So now with all this knowledge let's translate the above quote: "We had to use texture atlases to reduce the draw calls. But because our engine could not handle high or multi resolution atlases as well and/or it's not cost-effective to implement and/or optimize it, we ALSO had to use low resolution ones which again do not perform properly as we can see of fleet and Illum because the engine needs work that can be done later as x-y-z has higher priority and for now we've masked the issues."

 

 

The above is overly simplified in terms anyone can understand. For the technically inclined you can read the whitepaper as published by nvidia here:

http://download.nvidia.com/developer/NVTextureSuite/Atlas_Tools/Texture_Atlas_Whitepaper.pdf

 

And a research paper on the technique here:

http://www.jhu.edu/digitalhammurabi/research/2004_01_sta.pdf

 

 

Bottom line: The engine needs work as this doesn't affect only the high resolution textures as I've said before. And imho, Bioware could choose to communicate with the community without a PR department filtering everything. I like the game and I want it to succeed.

 

You have restored my faith in humanity.

[Blackweb]

Umm... no you didn't. I've was part of the first early access group, and have always had all settings to maximum on my 6 month old gaming PC. We never had high-res (ie: cutscene) textures in normal gameplay since release. I can't comment on the betas though.

 

Hyperbole does no one one either side of the argument any good.

 

Ummmmmm yes I did, sorry if you missed out on something but it has been in the game after release. I've played them already.

 

And your right posting misinformation doesn't do either side good, so please think before posting.

[Trigg]

I suppose you are correct, I'm just a little disappointed with the textures that's all. (and for the record I never said anything about false advertising)

 

No accusations intended about the false advertisements, that bit was just a generalisation of the majority in here bringing it up

 

Bit yeah just to be clear, i am also a bit disapointed, but as i said, i'm not letting it stop me playing at all.

[Morgander]

No accusations intended about the false advertisements, that bit was just a generalisation of the majority in here bringing it up

 

Bit yeah just to be clear, i am also a bit disapointed, but as i said, i'm not letting it stop me playing at all.

 

This reply isn't intended to offend you Trigg, but your statement here says that you really want to play the game because you like it, but that your desire to play outweighs principle.

 

I want to play the game too. I've been following this game since it was initially talked about, prior to its official announcement. I played beta, and I played since before release. I've played a lot of it and I do very much enjoy it; but that's why it's difficult for me NOT to play.

 

I cancelled my subscription and I don't play because of principle. Because we the customer, the gamer, the fan, must tell the company, the developer, that if they lie to us, if they try to cheat us, if they try to make choices based off their profit margins instead of what's proper for the game, for principle, for their customers and fans, that we will rise up and refuse to give them our money at all.

 

It is the dire most power that we possess, to withhold our money. We alone have the power to stop companies from immoral acts, to prevent developers from making sweeping changes that will hinder the game, and to spur game designers to work on not only developing content that they hope will garner them more profit, but to also continue to work on content that makes the current player's gameplay experience better, even though it might not bring new players.

 

While it's alright to state you're upset but to continue to play, the only message this tells the company is that they can postpone fixes at the expense of your entertainment because in doing so, they know you will not stop paying them, and they can make a larger profit margin in doing so.

 

We can't let them behave this way. And we DO have the power.

[LaVolpex]

This reply isn't intended to offend you Trigg, but your statement here says that you really want to play the game because you like it, but that your desire to play outweighs principle.

 

I want to play the game too. I've been following this game since it was initially talked about, prior to its official announcement. I played beta, and I played since before release. I've played a lot of it and I do very much enjoy it; but that's why it's difficult for me NOT to play.

 

I cancelled my subscription and I don't play because of principle. Because we the customer, the gamer, the fan, must tell the company, the developer, that if they lie to us, if they try to cheat us, if they try to make choices based off their profit margins instead of what's proper for the game, for principle, for their customers and fans, that we will rise up and refuse to give them our money at all.

 

It is the dire most power that we possess, to withhold our money. We alone have the power to stop companies from immoral acts, to prevent developers from making sweeping changes that will hinder the game, and to spur game designers to work on not only developing content that they hope will garner them more profit, but to also continue to work on content that makes the current player's gameplay experience better, even though it might not bring new players.

 

While it's alright to state you're upset but to continue to play, the only message this tells the company is that they can postpone fixes at the expense of your entertainment because in doing so, they know you will not stop paying them, and they can make a larger profit margin in doing so.

 

We can't let them behave this way. And we DO have the power.

 

 

i am not going to belittle your position, and i do think its a valid one, but dont assume most other gamers would waste their sixty bucks on "principle"

 

i for one find it very unproffesional and disgusting when software companies lie to the consumer, but at the end of the day, i am paying for a product, and to me, im getting the product (a game, functional regardless of what bugs or low textures it may have, i still have a product that for all intents and purposes WORKS )

 

i couldnt care less about the "principle" because im not dealing with one person here, im dealing with a company , and companies are not people , they dont have feelings, nor do they care if i throw a hissyfit, they will continue operating (even if swotor fails bioware will keep operating wont it? ) regardless of how ****** i think they are..

 

 

so to me, not continuing to play or have a measure of fun on the game its only hurting myself, bcause the company already got my sixty bucks ( you COULD get a refund, but good luck doing that before the next year is over )

 

 

i still think this issue is beyond stupid, but to each its own, game is FAR from unplayable, but if having a few less pixels to look at make you feel like you wasted sixty bucks you are certainly entitled to think that, but i promise you, you ARE the minority

 

 

you people need to stop being unrealistic, NO AMOUNT OF RAGING OR CANCELLING , will make this issue go any faster

 

if you are gonna cancel, then cancel,

 

if not, then let bioware get around to giving us textures, and chill out

 

this is the fifth thread on this issue, to wich they have already replied multiple times that they are looking for ways to implement it but people wont give them at least one patch to see if they solve it , that is not only unrealistic but moronic

 

 

this article pretty much explains it and i wish it would be required reading before posting on the forums tbh"

 

http://mrlizard.com/rants/why-havent-they-fixed-this-bug/

[Morgander]

i am not going to belittle your position, and i do think its a valid one, but dont assume most other gamers would waste their sixty bucks on "principle"

 

i for one find it very unproffesional and disgusting when software companies lie to the consumer, but at the end of the day, i am paying for a product, and to me, im getting the product (a game, functional regardless of what bugs or low textures it may have, i still have a product that for all intents and purposes WORKS )

 

i couldnt care less about the "principle" because im not dealing with one person here, im dealing with a company , and companies are not people , they dont have feelings, nor do they care if i throw a hissyfit, they will continue operating (even if swotor fails bioware will keep operating wont it? ) regardless of how ****** i think they are..

 

http://mrlizard.com/rants/why-havent-they-fixed-this-bug/

 

I do not believe you understand the deepest aspect of an issue such as this. This is about the graphics, yes. This is about being miscommunicated to, even misinformed or mislead, yes. But most importantly, this is about sending a message to a company, and to all game companies that they cannot do whatever they want if they desire more money. It's really that simple, yet that complex.

 

It's one major issue out of many prospective major issues. Yes, you could say you're not going to let the graphics issue stop you from playing, but then what will?

 

When is it enough? I know beyond any doubt that if you give a company the reigns to do whatever they wish, they will. If it were legal for Microsoft to hold an absolute monopoly over computer operating systems, they would. Do you not believe they wouldn't further increase the cost of Windows if that were the case? Of course they would, because if you want a computer, you would need Windows, and that would be it.

 

Even if they didn't substantially increase the cost of their OS by much for individual sale, they would to companies and this would have a trickle down effect on each of us. The next time you were due a raise, would you get one when the cost of the company's 300 copies of Windows cost another 500 dollars apiece?

 

In this case, if players do not continually voice their disdain until the issue is resolved, then what message are we sending Bioware, or other game developers for that matter?

 

When the next big mmo comes out, will that company learn from the mistakes of others? If they're that big then yes, I believe they will. TOR is very much like WoW, because Bioware watched the absolute success of WoW from Blizzard and understood what a huge group of gamers likes and dislikes. This is WHY it's so similar, and if Blizzard had made a huge mistake in the past, I guarantee that Bioware made note of that mistake, and did everything within their power not to copy it.

 

If enough people voiced their opinion over this and stopped paying, will Bioware take notice? Yes. Will they be quick to lie to their customer base again? No. And will the next big mmo's learn from Bioware's mistake in how they acted upon this issue? Yes.

 

But ONLY if we send them a clear message.

 

If we complain once then leave the issue alone, Bioware may listen, but they're going to keep an eye on their profit margins. They're going to have a meeting one day and say, "we have this issue that came up, but nobody's quitting over it, so I believe that we can put this issue on indefinite hold or postpone the fix because we should rather be working on new content so we can get more subscribers, and since nobody is quitting over the issue, it's not a priority". And they will say this ALBEIT the fact that they mislead consumers and lied about an issue with their own game. That's irreverent to them, because what you said is true, a company is not an individual and it will not think with the principles of an individual. It will think with the principles of a company, and that principle--the entire PURPOSE of a company's existence--is money.

 

I find this comment very disheartening, "but at the end of the day, i am paying for a product, and to me, im getting the product (a game, functional regardless of what bugs or low textures it may have, i still have a product that for all intents and purposes WORKS" because when I buy a product, I expect it to have, be, and come with everything I've been told it does. I don't want to purchase a 2,000 dollar television set that's displayed in high definition, with 6 USB connections, built in WiFi, and voice activation, only to find out that it comes in standard definition, 3 USB connections, no WiFi, and no voice activation. The television still works though, so should I be satisfied?

 

That's an extreme comparison. Even if all I didn't get were 2 of the USB connections, or the built in WiFi, or just no voice activation, is that enough to just deal with and not send it back to get what I paid for? Maybe it is for you, and that's sad because if everyone else thought that way, then there wouldn't be laws that protected consumers from false advertisement since everyone would just deal with it and false advertisement would be rampant. If everyone just accepted even 5 USB ports instead of 6 in the above analogy, eventually the company would make them with 4, then 3, then remove the WiFi but continue to advertise the sets with it; eventually all companies would follow suit--and why? Because they can. Because you'll pay for it and because in doing so, the manufacturing cost is less, thus they've made more profit.

 

Don't deal with it, don't accept it, no matter how small or trivial.

 

Bioware promised us the game they displayed (and continued to display) on the box, on websites, in magazines, on their website, and in continual other places. They did NOT give us the game that works, they gave us less. We paid for more, and we got less. This is NOT acceptable. This is NOT forgivable, and this is ABSOLUTELY worth fighting for.

 

Doing nothing and continuing to play doesn't do anything. It's those of us who fight these things that gets the entire industry to change, to better itself, and to provide superior products.

 

The only thing that doing nothing has ever accomplished, is nothing.

[LxRyan]

I'm no coder or have advanced knowledge of dll and graphic files, (I'm actually a lighting technician) but is there no way of forcing through some sort of mod through the dll files or so?

 

I don't understand and I sent them a massive long email that was responded via the same auto-message but I expected it.

 

They could of just put a high res option drop down? Hey like a high graphics drop-down and unless you share a brain cell with someone if your pc doesn't run it dont run it on those graphics, thats the same for any single player game I don't see why its any different?

 

But if there is any sort of way of forcing the high res textures through some sort of mod then that would be cool as to me it sounds like they don't really care. May be impossible but like I said treat me like an idiot on these things.