jadel Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You have better be kidding. Its fine no changes to the cut scenes. Dont panic. I do not understand for the life of me why, if as they say, the issue is "NOT BEING ABLE TO CONTROL THE # OF CHARACTERS ON SCREEN like we can IN CINEMATICS," doesn't just spur them to limit the number of people the game draws at a time..... Why do you assume they arent? I mean apart from the fact that as written your idea is totally mental. "Hey man toss me a heal please" "Where are you?" "Right in front of you" "Oh damn, theres already four people on my screen .. sorry cant see you cant help you." "oh well at least your armor looks nice" "Yeah, sweet eh" Now perhaps you mean limit the number of characters the game draw with high res textures. Thats pretty much what they said they are going to do and that it will take them some time to implement. I have no idea about programming a game so I cant argue with their time frame. I would prefer they just reenabled the previously available HD for all graphics and either put a warning on it or perhaps didnt even have an in game option at all. Make it only available via ini tweak and then the average joe isnt going to cook his 10 year old dell desktop. It would seem to me that this fix wouldnt take very long to do since they already had the game running like that a month ago. Do it that way then implement a nicer solution that suits all hardware levels when you have time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenceriker Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Its fine no changes to the cut scenes. Dont panic. Thank you. I was worried that the graphics situation would actually get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redorbz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Well, I did it. With one day left, I figured I needed to make a decision and I went ahead and unsubscribed. I explained about how I think it's wrong for Bioware to continue to use high res textures in their PR when they aren't playable in game. I doubt my single cancellation will make much of a difference, but hopefully the combined weight of all the cancellations will have a positive impact for those of you who are choosing to stay. I genuinely hope that Bioware listens and works to make this a better game for everyone. Your not alone. My family has two accounts, and they have both been cancelled. Too many other fun games out there to stand by and take it from EA like this. Hundreds of thousands of people have noticed this issue ingame and believe its their computer. Thousands more are finding out everyday though, about this issue and a dozen other problems. EA being pro sopa, how theyve handled the dozens of serious issues in this game, and what Ive seen having dealt with them in the past 10 years makes me think nothing will change here anytime soon. Trust that you made the right choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rophez Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I wonder if the plan is to ignore us until we run out of steam. It might work; I'm having trouble finding the desire to keep trying to get them to do the right thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supershield Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 TO be honest, if these High resolution textures are more taxing than we think, and Bioware IS right. They should atleast give us something in between, I mean come on, looks like a dog vomited all over my gearz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodens Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) What is the point of this post? No .. not at all. EVE is a great looking game but lets stick with apples. The video your compadre posted of captains quarters is equally pointless. Its one avatar walking around in a fairly low detail ship. It like if i posted a video from swtor showing the ship interiors in this ... equally unimpressive. Several things are wrong with that statement. It's one avatar walking into a VERY detailed ship station. The environment is very detailed with high res textures and if you insist otherwise you can probably not discern it from the video.Download a trial and see with your own eyes. And I mean real high res, not like swtor high res (I'm comparing to the disabled ones. not the LODed ones we get currently). Also I do not understand your logic at all. Even if it is just one character, compare it with one character in ToR inside a similar environment. Like your ship or any area where you are the only character rendered. EVE is superior in every way. Also let's forget the player character avatar in EVE and see it properly for a second. Any ship you are flying is also a player avatar and these are all in very high resolution with more detail than a character avatar could ever have. Also while out in space you have advanced lightning, particle effects, HDR, Bloom, physics and reflections for several hundreds ships at the same time. The client handles it properly and includes options to reduce the quality of the models as more enter the scene which is configurable for those with low end systems. In the end all this talk is pointless. The truth is the Hero Engine has a problem with its texture subsystem and bad LOD implementation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroEngine#Games_developed_with_HeroEngine Check out the games currently on development with the same engine and you'll see they all suffer from the same "visual fidelity" issues. Contrary to what many people think, here in these forums, the engine is not made by Bioware. It's made by Simutronics Corporation which is now owned by Idea Fabrik and Bioware just licenses it. Which means they tweak the engine to suit their game but they have not actually developed it. Core issues like that are fixed by Idea Fabrik or in collaboration with Idea Fabrik although much depends on the license terms which we have no clue about. SWToR is the first game developed with the engine and simply the engine was not ready for a production of this scale. It needs far more optimization or could even need a major rewrite of the 3D part of the code. The texturing subsystem of the engine is its bottleneck. You can see that with a simple alt-tab out and back in the game. The texture streaming is just slow and horrible that actually requires that game logo static picture for a couple of seconds so you don't see the slow streaming occuring behind it. The real question is if it's cost effective for Bioware to fix it and my educated guess is that it's not. Hence the whole "it was a bug" fiasco. So everyone here voicing their displeasure (even with absurd arguments as they have no technical aptitude that allows them to understand the issues -- and that's perfectly understandable -- though I did laugh a lot with the remote rendering idea which is technically absurd) actually helps a lot in raising this issue to the point that it has to be addressed no matter the cost for the companies involved. For me it is important. For others, it may not be. But this issue is not only about visual fidelity..it also affects the performance of the graphics system in a lot of other situations as well. Everyone who was fighting on Illum yesterday with 2 fps on lowest settings can verify that. The hotfix today was for exactly that reason which doesn't actualy fix the problem but it's rather a workaround (reduces the amount of players per Illum instance) as the engine itself can't handle it... EDIT: As it was posted above this is a very educative video about the game industry with a dose of humour, I suggest everyone to watch it : http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/working-conditions Edited January 19, 2012 by Nodens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRaVagEx Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Love that the new video today continues to use Advertisment Mode high res textures that is CLEARLY gameplay video of the Rise of the Rakghouls flashpoint AND aboard the Imperial Fleet station plus during the UI customization. Damn shame James Ohlen flat out lied when he said he's listening to fan requests because he has yet to address this personally and nobody in the SWTOR team has yet to respond with a decent answer that doesn't point to shoddy program via the use of this "texture atlas" that has clearly been botched in its implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mormack Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm disappointed we haven't gotten any more word on this and the fact that the video didn't mention anything of improved Graphical fidelity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarinth Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) On a slightly off-topic note, the character detail isn't the only thing they're downgrading outside of "controlled situations". People have been complaining that the "High" shadows look blocky when you look at them more closely, and that they've been scaled down won't come as a surprise to most. However here's the interesting part. If you go to a cantina, the game still seems to load the original high shadows for your viewing pleasure. The moment I cross the threshold of the cantina I see character shadows which are much cleaner and crisper, but also several times as intensive on the GPU. So if anyone was wondering why they were having such high GPU useage / lower performance specifically inside the cantina's... the answer is that it's probably the higher shadows being loaded. It also shows very clearly just what awful resource-hogs the shadows in this game are. Edited January 20, 2012 by Amarinth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJohniLL Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Its fine no changes to the cut scenes. Dont panic. Why do you assume they arent? I mean apart from the fact that as written your idea is totally mental. "Hey man toss me a heal please" "Where are you?" "Right in front of you" "Oh damn, theres already four people on my screen .. sorry cant see you cant help you." "oh well at least your armor looks nice" "Yeah, sweet eh" Now perhaps you mean limit the number of characters the game draw with high res textures. Thats pretty much what they said they are going to do and that it will take them some time to implement. I have no idea about programming a game so I cant argue with their time frame. I would prefer they just reenabled the previously available HD for all graphics and either put a warning on it or perhaps didnt even have an in game option at all. Make it only available via ini tweak and then the average joe isnt going to cook his 10 year old dell desktop. It would seem to me that this fix wouldnt take very long to do since they already had the game running like that a month ago. Do it that way then implement a nicer solution that suits all hardware levels when you have time. .... Obviously not in towns, or for people IN your party / Ops come on dude, straw manning + a paragraph? Talk about a waste of time. Also, that's so 1999 (unless you're still in middle school) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJohniLL Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Its fine no changes to the cut scenes. Dont panic. Why do you assume they arent? I mean apart from the fact that as written your idea is totally mental. "Hey man toss me a heal please" "Where are you?" "Right in front of you" "Oh damn, theres already four people on my screen .. sorry cant see you cant help you." "oh well at least your armor looks nice" "Yeah, sweet eh" Now perhaps you mean limit the number of characters the game draw with high res textures. Thats pretty much what they said they are going to do and that it will take them some time to implement. I have no idea about programming a game so I cant argue with their time frame. I would prefer they just reenabled the previously available HD for all graphics and either put a warning on it or perhaps didnt even have an in game option at all. Make it only available via ini tweak and then the average joe isnt going to cook his 10 year old dell desktop. It would seem to me that this fix wouldnt take very long to do since they already had the game running like that a month ago. Do it that way then implement a nicer solution that suits all hardware levels when you have time. OH and obviously have high textures scaled down at far far distances. Duh. that should already be actually done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadCommando Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 *plays highly anticipated MMO* *Wonders why graphics look like runescape's* Off topic: Its not that I blame Bioware alone. I believe it is the market in general. People have been blindly buying video games and this allows the developers to completely screw quality. If it is from a supposedly "good" developer, then it is supposed to be a good game, right? That's what I thought too. I don't think that anymore (even though Bethesda has yet to end this trend). This game has so many wonderful features, yet is missing so many critical ones. Why can't they make a good game all around anymore? I noticed this with ME2. Even though the game was fun and it consumed you for a while, it left nowhere near the impact I felt when I played the KotOR series. The quests, minus a few story ones, were all forgettable and there wasn't much there other than running-and-gunning like you do in COD. Summed up, Bioware, please stop trying to be something you aren't. I hope I never see Bethesda release and FPS or DICE release and RPG. Bioware, you are good at RPG's. You don't have to make a MMO to make a successful one either. BRING BACK THE QUALITY OF THE KotOR's!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaethe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 With the new patch installed, i have crappy graphics in the cinematics too, and my holograms disappeared. It gets better and better. I've no problems with holograms, but all my previously nice looking cut-scenes now have mismatched adn blurry textures. I can force the world to look nice by editing the ini ... but I want my cutscenes to look nice too, dangit. They did before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceonnyn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I saw the nice video from the guy explaining what is to come in the future. Very nice I must say. Only thing that would be nicer would be them saying "Yes we will get hi-resolution turned on for you guys, and you can manage your PCs performance while we work on performance tuning" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaethe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I've no problems with holograms, but all my previously nice looking cut-scenes now have mismatched adn blurry textures. I can force the world to look nice by editing the ini ... but I want my cutscenes to look nice too, dangit. They did before. Fixed. I always keep a copy of my ini for backup purposes. Compared current to backup and ... a setting was missing that was there before. Bleh. Put it back, all is well. Edited January 20, 2012 by Rhaethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnen Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 im wondering if there is a way for them to turn off the streaming and just send out a 10gig patch or whatever size it would take to allow me to handle the rendering myself. i dont pay a thousand dollars to have my computer working at half mast. i mean come on why the hell even bother with this kind of copyright protection. this kind of copyright protection is the worst kind you could use. if i could render all the assets myself i could tweak models and such and make them even sharper. but no theres no files to increase texture sizes or anything like that so im forced to look at mud i guess on the plus everything but what im staring at looks fine, and seems you borked your graphics on the cutscenes there all muddy now to. im not sure that may be the madness of swaping corso with hello kitty talking and yes thats possible if you can get access to the textures and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 im wondering if there is a way for them to turn off the streaming and just send out a 10gig patch or whatever size it would take to allow me to handle the rendering myself. i dont pay a thousand dollars to have my computer working at half mast. i mean come on why the hell even bother with this kind of copyright protection. this kind of copyright protection is the worst kind you could use. if i could render all the assets myself i could tweak models and such and make them even sharper. but no theres no files to increase texture sizes or anything like that so im forced to look at mud i guess on the plus everything but what im staring at looks fine, and seems you borked your graphics on the cutscenes there all muddy now to. im not sure that may be the madness of swaping corso with hello kitty talking and yes thats possible if you can get access to the textures and such Um what now? Did you mean to post in the crazy conspiracy theory thread? Theres no texture streaming mate theres just some annoying texture compression or "atlas" as they call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 .... Obviously not in towns, or for people IN your party / Ops come on dude, straw manning + a paragraph? Talk about a waste of time. Also, that's so 1999 (unless you're still in middle school) lol you were serious?? I was making a joke because I thought you failed to word your argument correctly which resulted in what you wrote sounding quite silly. But now you tell me your brilliant idea IS in fact that they should actually render less people on the screen. omg. This makes my joke far more relevant, it certainly isnt a straw man argument (much as I hate people who even use that term that they read on some other mmo forum and liked the sound of.) Your idea is absurd. You say obviously not in towns or for people in your ops. What about people in pvp? Your idea would certainly solve the performance problems they have in large scale pvp, because there would be nobody but your group on the screen. Awesome plan! Do you want to limit raid size based on peoples internet connection and RAM too? I assumed you meant scale down resolution on larger numbers of characters like they do in eq2. Which while completely obvious is at least a workable solution and the one which they will probably implement by the sound of things. So to wrap up. My post contained 3 sections. 1 joke, 1 response to the perceived meaning of yours and 1 different proposed solution. Your post contained the most ridiculous solution I have ever heard with some weird sections capitalized for no apparent reason. You praise yourself for having what you describe as a great idea and suggest the reason noone at BW thought of it is due in part to a lack of static electricity. Im fairly confident I know which post was a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armalas Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Bump is in order.Seen the Sorc PvP sets? I'm not even excited to farm it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessicayla Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Of course they aren't going to mention better graphic "fidelity" in their upcoming update video. It would just cause more people who are not informed about it to say, "Wait, I knew the graphics didn't look so great.." and then look in to it. Bioware doesn't want this to get any bigger of a problem than it already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolthus Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Have you SEEN the GAMEPLAY textures on the new advertisement video? GAMEPLAY scenes. Fighting scenes. High Q. textures on them. False advertisement again or an incoming fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Have you SEEN the GAMEPLAY textures on the new advertisement video? GAMEPLAY scenes. Fighting scenes. High Q. textures on them. False advertisement again or an incoming fix? Yeppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Have you SEEN the GAMEPLAY textures on the new advertisement video? GAMEPLAY scenes. Fighting scenes. High Q. textures on them. False advertisement again or an incoming fix? Which video are you talking about? Also what section of it so I can take a look. People were on about rise of the rakghouls preview having "false advertising" and that video didnt contain anything that looked much or any better than current to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolthus Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Which video are you talking about? Also what section of it so I can take a look. People were on about rise of the rakghouls preview having "false advertising" and that video didnt contain anything that looked much or any better than current to me. You can notice it specially on the boots and belts of the characters. I'm wearing the same boots on some of my chars and they look like a blurry mess instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadel Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You can notice it specially on the boots and belts of the characters. I'm wearing the same boots on some of my chars and they look like a blurry mess instead. I dont know mate. I think thats a stretch to call that false advertising just like the other video. None of that looks better than what Im playing now. The trooper with the orange logos is very similar to mine, though I only had the shoulder logo on the screenie i linked earlier in thread. The leather clad guy in the desert scene doesnt look any better than than mine either. The screenshots Ive seen people post of their robes that look super blurry are nasty, I havent seen that in game before but if thats what they really look like then thats not cool. On the other hand, I still havent seen any "false advertising" The only shots Ive seen where things look nicer are made with holotrick by the players themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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