Involuntarily flagged for PvP as a 32 by a 50 on a PvE server.

[VarnieTsk]

I'll repeat:

 

By AOEing and hitting someone, you gave consent, same as if you targeted them with a direct attack. You are attacking a flagged player.

 

And I'll repeat:

 

By AOEing and hitting someone WHO IS STEALTHED HIDING IN MOBS YOU'RE ABOUT TO ENGAGE OR WHO INTENTIONALLY RUNS INTO YOUR AOE AFTER YOU'VE ENGAGED THE MOBS is NOT the same as if you targeted them with a direct attack and you have NOT given consent.

 

You can rationalize this all you want. It's griefing in every sense of the word. And since you've already admitted that you enjoy doing this to people, I wouldn't give 2 cents for your opinion on this now.

[Zorvan]

I'll repeat:

 

By AOEing and hitting someone, you gave consent, same as if you targeted them with a direct attack. You are attacking a flagged player.

 

It's killing you so much to see this issue might actually be fixed that now you make stuff up in your head and post it in the hope someone will believe it.

 

NOONE IS GIVING CONSENT UNLESS THEY FLAG THEMSELVES MANUALLY FIRST.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Zorvan

[KarmaInferno]

By AOEing and hitting someone WHO IS STEALTHED HIDING IN MOBS YOU'RE ABOUT TO ENGAGE OR WHO INTENTIONALLY RUNS INTO YOUR AOE AFTER YOU'VE ENGAGED THE MOBS is NOT the same as if you targeted them with a direct attack and you have NOT given consent.

 

Um. I dunno about anyone else, but I've played multiple MMOs that featured "flag on hitting someone who is also flagged" mechanics. Even if it was accidental.

 

It's pretty damn common in the industry and not exclusive to SWTOR.

 

I mean, yes, it's griefing to deliberately stealth into someone's AoE to force-flag them, and you should report them, but damn, just submit the ticket and move on. Raging about it on a forum won't help. And it's probably not good for your blood pressure.

 

 

 

 

-k

Edited January 26, 2012 by KarmaInferno

[iain_b]

Exactly. Changing this behavior would ruin my ability to do this and have fun, which is not griefing at all. So don't think I have no stake in it.

 

Maybe you should have rolled on a PvP server. Oh wait, then you couldn't grief folks that wanted to only PvE.

[Saurakk]

Maybe you should have rolled on a PvP server. Oh wait, then you couldn't grief folks that wanted to only PvE.

 

But but..his imaginary friends play on his server!

 

That is why he hides on a PvE server trying to grief people...because he is so busy hanging with his friends!

 

Even it were true, easy enough to PvE with friends and when they are not on and the little guy is so bored and depressed, he go play with the big boys and girls and PvP on a real server.

 

But obviously that would be out of the question to the internet tough guys who support this behavior...or I am sorry...support this feature.

[DevonDs]

think about it this way.. he's a level 50 and your way way down. it just shows how insecure he is and needs some outlet to let out all those insecurities and it just so happens that he thought killing players way lower than him makes him cool and powerful.

 

so instead of nerd raging.. just pat the level 50 in the head and say "that's okay child we all have insecurities once in a while"

 

I respect your point however being this gankpredators theraputic punching bag is not my job, it is not why I pay 15$ a month.

 

Insecurity is often a part of life, bullying others as a way of dealing with your insecurities is a choice. if your theory is correct (and it quite possibly is in many cases) this person is making a choice to bully others to feel better about themselves, and abusing both the game and the anonymity of the net to shield themselves from consequesnces.

 

"I was a victim in my past so now i victimize"", or "I have low self esteam" is never an excuse for hurting, abusing or bullying others. Never.

 

If exploiting can be proven, then permaban will at least teach them that thier actions even on the net have consequences.

[SWToRBurns]

Easy fix that should have been in the game from the beginning. Only direct damage to a targetted flagged player should ever turn on your flag. AE's should never allow a non-flagged person to become flagged. This is the oldest trick in the book.

 

This happens in tons of games, and it's usually fixed later on. I don't understand how a company just can't get it right from the get go.

 

^ This, it still happens in wow, everyday on pve servers. Some jack slick gets a hard on for a gank fest, and sits in a daily area flagged where he knows people will spam aoe. He, and usually a few friends, then proceed to farm free kills from people to dumb to notice.

 

It usually takes a semi coordinated effort to stomp them out.

 

Always be aware of your surroundings my young padawan, the universe is not a nice place.

[DevonDs]

I'll repeat:

 

By AOEing and hitting someone, you gave consent, same as if you targeted them with a direct attack. You are attacking a flagged player.

 

Hitting someone "Stealthing into a group "or throwing themsleves into an AOE does equal consent. it is exploitive, and purposly abusive.

 

I do not know how anyone can call my hitting an invisible character in a mob I am questing for in PVE is consentual.

 

If the BIOWARE Devs cannot fix the problem in the short term because of other prioities then they at least should take a stand and

1. Say it is an exploint

2. Confirm that this behavior is harrasment

3. Permaban those who continue this behavior.

 

Such a stand would take few resources and would at least show the PVE community that we do matter at least a little bit.

[daemian]

I'll repeat:

 

By AOEing and hitting someone, you gave consent, same as if you targeted them with a direct attack. You are attacking a flagged player.

 

Thanks for re-stating the issue. Yes, this is how it currently works, and it's a feature that only lends itself to griefing. We understand you're here to defend your right to harass players who don't want to PVP, but protecting your need to have fun at the expense of others shouldn't be a feature of the game.

Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian

[DevonDs]

^ This, it still happens in wow, everyday on pve servers. Some jack slick gets a hard on for a gank fest, and sits in a daily area flagged where he knows people will spam aoe. He, and usually a few friends, then proceed to farm free kills from people to dumb to notice.

 

It usually takes a semi coordinated effort to stomp them out.

 

Always be aware of your surroundings my young padawan, the universe is not a nice place.

 

I am not paying to play the "universe" I am paying to play a game, designed to have rules, and that stated clearly that PVE servers would not allow non consentual PVP by gankpredators.

 

One of the reasons I chose this game over others (such as eve) was that it was supposed to offer a fun and enjoyable PVE experience that was "central" to the game.

 

Instead it seems to be going in the direction of being yet another zergapoluza greiftastic gankfest for those that love PVP.

Its too bad that the developers don't think that the PVE market is strong enough to support a game aimed at them, and instead seems to use their PVE design to attract unwary PVE players for the amusment of PVP subscribers.

[Calsetes]

Hitting someone "Stealthing into a group "or throwing themsleves into an AOE does equal consent. it is exploitive, and purposly abusive.

 

I do not know how anyone can call my hitting an invisible character in a mob I am questing for in PVE is consentual.

 

If the BIOWARE Devs cannot fix the problem in the short term because of other prioities then they at least should take a stand and

1. Say it is an exploint

2. Confirm that this behavior is harrasment

3. Permaban those who continue this behavior.

 

Such a stand would take few resources and would at least show the PVE community that we do matter at least a little bit.

 

That would do wonders right now, though I think a permanent ban shouldn't be the first step they go to - they might lose too many people like that with bad publicity. I say, if someone does it once or twice, then hey - it could be an honest accident, and they get a warning. They keep doing it after the warning, then it means it's obviously intentional, and they get a temporary ban (let's say 24-48 hours.) They keep doing it after the temporary ban, then they didn't learn, ban them fro longer (let's say a week.) They continue to do it AFTER coming back from their mini-vacation, then hit them with a permanent ban.

[KarmaInferno]

Okay, the folks saying they enjoy force-flagging other people by stealthing into AoEs?

 

Those people are trolling.

 

By responding to them you are giving them what they want.

 

 

 

 

 

-k

[VarnieTsk]

Um. I dunno about anyone else, but I've played multiple MMOs that featured "flag on hitting someone who is also flagged" mechanics. Even if it was accidental.

 

It's pretty damn common in the industry and not exclusive to SWTOR.

 

I mean, yes, it's griefing to deliberately stealth into someone's AoE to force-flag them, and you should report them, but damn, just submit the ticket and move on. Raging about it on a forum won't help. And it's probably not good for your blood pressure.

 

 

 

 

-k

 

Um, this myth has been debunked numerous times already in all 5 of the threads going on this subject. You really should read more. And it really doesn't matter what any other game has. We're discussing this one.

 

And you acknowledge that it's an exploit, then in the same breath imply we should just roll over and take it.

 

As I've said elsewhere, I do not, and will not, tolerate pvp griefing in any game. I will try to help get this changed. If unsuccessful, I'll leave. Simple. No muss, no fuss. In point of fact, I have already cancelled in protest, and will continue trying to get this changed until my posting rights expire. If it gets changed, I'll come back. If not, then not.

 

I'm not raging, and neither are most of the people posting in these threads. We're posting quite civilized in comparison to stuff I see on the pvp boards and posts in general by pvpers about THEIR issues, "I can't beat this class or that class, this skill doesn't do this or that, /ragequit" whatever. Wow, talk about rabid raging. No, I'd say we're being quite civilized.

 

Oh, and my blood pressure is just fine, thank you.

 

What I AM doing is attempting to bring this to the attention of Bioware since we're obviously on /ignore right now, and I'm making an attempt, in vain it seems, to make certain kiddies see that this is not acceptable behaviour even behind the anonymity of the internet. If they acted this way in RL their parents would probably slap the dog s**t out of them.

[Charliff]

These so called pvp-ers are the reason why a lot of people hate pvp in general. There isn't a fair fight and they don't want a fair fight, or else they would be on a pvp-server without needing tricks to get someone a pvp-flag so they can have their easy kill. Edited January 26, 2012 by Charliff

[VarnieTsk]

Okay, the folks saying they enjoy force-flagging other people by stealthing into AoEs?

 

Those people are trolling.

 

By responding to them you are giving them what they want.

 

 

 

 

 

-k

 

True, but they're also helping us keep this on page one even though I know that's not their intent. lol.

 

Thanks for the bump, guys.

[KarmaInferno]

What I AM doing is attempting to bring this to the attention of Bioware since we're obviously on /ignore right now, and I'm making an attempt, in vain it seems, to make certain kiddies see that this is not acceptable behaviour even behind the anonymity of the internet. If they acted this way in RL their parents would probably slap the dog s**t out of them.

 

The Bioware devs won't see your posts.

 

The CSR people do see them, and they make a note that X issue is cropping up, bundle it with all the other issues they have noted for the day, and submit it to their manager. Then all the notes get examined and sorted and forwarded to the relevant departments. Those departments then attempt to address the issues in order of perceived priority.

 

So it doesn't really matter how much you post about a single issue on the forums. It's still going to get a "X issue is cropping up" note entered into the system.

 

You know what also gets "X issue is cropping up" notes entered into the system? Submitting trouble tickets.

 

The only thing you really accomplish most of the time by posting on a subject over and over on a forum is venting your own personal frustration.

 

All of this is true of pretty much any support forum for any product on the planet. Your complaints never reach the people you are addressing them to directly. It always gets filtered though a system and reduced to simple "X issue is cropping up" notes.

 

[EDIT]

The "kiddies" simply won't care. The ones that actively do it are doing it PRECISELY to get a reaction out of you, and you have fallen into their plans magnificently.

[/EDIT]

 

 

 

-k

Edited January 26, 2012 by KarmaInferno

[daemian]

The Bioware devs won't see your posts.

 

The CSR people do see them, and they make a note that X issue is cropping up, bundle it with all the other issues they have noted for the day, and submit it to their manager. Then all the notes get examined and sorted and forwarded to the relevant departments. Those departments then attempt to address the issues in order of perceived priority.

 

So it doesn't really matter how much you post about a single issue on the forums. It's still going to get a "X issue is cropping up" note entered into the system.

 

You know what also gets "X issue is cropping up" notes entered into the system? Submitting trouble tickets.

 

The only thing you really accomplish most of the time by posting on a subject over and over on a forum is venting your own personal frustration.

 

All of this is true of pretty much any support forum for any product on the planet. Your complaints never reach the people you are addressing them to directly. It always gets filtered though a system and reduced to simple "X issue is cropping up" notes.

 

 

 

 

-k

 

Then again, it's possible some of the devs read the forums now and then. Which they obviously do.

[_Darkstar]

^ This, it still happens in wow, everyday on pve servers. Some jack slick gets a hard on for a gank fest, and sits in a daily area flagged where he knows people will spam aoe.

Is this despite the fact that WoW doesn't have this feature?

[Ujest]

Same things happened to me twice, was killing mobs, i have no interest in PvP and all of a sudden a bunch of republic's appeared and started wailing on me...its been happening now two days in a row.

 

I've sent a ticket into BW obviously they will just ignore it, i have no interest in PVP at all, I'm on a PVE server. Keeps happening I'll simply unsub and leave.

 

You may have gone through or were in an area that automatically flags you for PvP. These areas begin on Nar Shaddaa. All planets after Nar Shaddaa have them. You may have missed the scrolling red text, in the middle of your screen, telling you, you are about to be flagged for PvP in 10, 9, 8, 7, ... seconds.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ujest

[DevonDs]

That would do wonders right now, though I think a permanent ban shouldn't be the first step they go to - they might lose too many people like that with bad publicity. I say, if someone does it once or twice, then hey - it could be an honest accident, and they get a warning. They keep doing it after the warning, then it means it's obviously intentional, and they get a temporary ban (let's say 24-48 hours.) They keep doing it after the temporary ban, then they didn't learn, ban them fro longer (let's say a week.) They continue to do it AFTER coming back from their mini-vacation, then hit them with a permanent ban.

 

Your plan is indeed better than my knee-jerk permaban solution. Your plan is well thought out and logically stated.

 

Thank you for bringing such things to the forums, this issue seems to have supressed those things in me.

 

Bottom line.

Bioware,please make a statement saying that this is an exploit and it is wrong. It wont take a lot of resrouces and would reassurre me and others who worry about PVP taking over the game.

[VarnieTsk]

The Bioware devs won't see your posts.

 

The CSR people do see them, and they make a note that X issue is cropping up, bundle it with all the other issues they have noted for the day, and submit it to their manager. Then all the notes get examined and sorted and forwarded to the relevant departments. Those departments then attempt to address the issues in order of perceived priority.

 

So it doesn't really matter how much you post about a single issue on the forums. It's still going to get a "X issue is cropping up" note entered into the system.

 

You know what also gets "X issue is cropping up" notes entered into the system? Submitting trouble tickets.

 

The only thing you really accomplish most of the time by posting on a subject over and over on a forum is venting your own personal frustration.

 

All of this is true of pretty much any support forum for any product on the planet. Your complaints never reach the people you are addressing them to directly. It always gets filtered though a system and reduced to simple "X issue is cropping up" notes.

 

[EDIT]

The "kiddies" simply won't care. The ones that actively do it are doing it PRECISELY to get a reaction out of you, and you have fallen into their plans magnificently.

[/EDIT]

 

 

 

-k

 

Well one can only try. The devs have said that they do read the boards, and considering that GZ noticed and responded to the guy asking could he have a workbench on his ship, I'd say we've likely been seen and probably really are on /ignore. (which btw was my primary reason for quitting. The e-snub by the company)

 

As for the kiddies. Should we just not try to get it changed then because "No, that's what they want us to do?"

[KarmaInferno]

No, I'm just noting that posting multiple complaints on a given subject on a forum is generally ineffective.

 

 

 

 

 

-k

Edited January 26, 2012 by KarmaInferno

[Saurakk]

No, I'm just noting that posting multiple complaints on a given subject on a forum is generally ineffective.

 

 

 

 

 

-k

 

If anything it may bring other players awareness about the issue and they will understand what to do and how to handle it until BW decides to make an official statement, or change the "feature".

 

Some people may not be aware that this is "supposedly" frowned upon by BW and can report the players in hopes of some follow up.

[VorpalK]

No, I'm just noting that posting multiple complaints on a given subject on a forum is generally ineffective.

 

 

 

 

 

-k

 

Remaining silent and hoping real hard doesn't work at all.

[Omite]

if it is griefing, it is reportable. And if you report someone in this game, they are actually pretty quick at handing out suspensions.

 

Report him and he may think twice about doing it again.

 

this^