Involuntarily flagged for PvP as a 32 by a 50 on a PvE server.

[Greyfeld]

You can't wave this away. If you accidentally click on an enemy and attack them, that would also be considered "flagged against their wishes."

 

Do you want that "fixed" too?

 

If Bioware would make it so that you could only attack another flagged player if you were, yourself, flagged then this would be a non-issue.

 

So yes, we want that fixed too.

 

Especially when you consider the age-old trick of standing inside NPCs so that players will right-click you instead of the NPC.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Greyfeld

[VarnieTsk]

You can't wave this away. If you accidentally click on an enemy and attack them, that would also be considered "flagged against their wishes."

 

Do you want that "fixed" too?

 

Apples and Oranges. If I SEE an enemy and I accidentally click on him and attack, I would look at that the same as I look at what I did the other day, which is I buffed a flagged player and got flagged. My mistake and avoidable without having to completely change the way I play the game. Sorry, I still think you're nitpicking and I really have to wonder why you're doing it so persistantly other than just doing it for giggles and laughs.

 

PS: And yes, actually I'd like to see that changed too. I'd like for an unflagged player to be completely unable to affect a flagged player in any way, shape, or form.

Edited January 26, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[Sotaudi]

PvP has no real place on a PvE server (outside of maybe specific PvP zone), as you've said yourself.

 

This would be an easy fix, and would complete fix any possible expliots on PvE servers as well as helping PvP server populations.

 

Win:win for all.

 

 

 

 

 

It still would be in zone specified for PvP, and no where else.

 

Why would you want a PvE flag anywhere else on a PvE server anyway?

 

 

I have to completely disagree with you for the same reason I cannot agree with those who say it is working fine the way it is. The server rules set says that PvP on a PvE server is consensual. If you remove world PvP, you are removing their ability to consent. We cannot argue that PvP must be by consent while at the same time opposing those who want to consent being able to do so.

 

There is no reason PvP cannot coexist with PvE on a PvE server, provided the mechanics allow it, as the rules set states, to be consensual. This is a targeting logic issue, not a problem with PvP being on a PvE server.

 

Simply fix the logic of AoE targeting to ignore flagged players when the attacker is not flagged or not directly targeting a flagged player. Better yet, add an option to opt out of being autoflagged. With this option set, you cannot damage or aid a flagged player unless you manually flag. That and that alone is a win:win situation that any reasonable person can agree to.

 

There is no reason to deny open world PvP to people who wish to engage in it as long as those who don't cannot be dragged into involuntarily.

[Ansultares]

I see some people are still trying very hard to defend their ability to trick people into fighting on a PVE server rather than just join a PVP server.

Put that way, it makes them sound even more cowardly than they already had.

 

Make them man up and roll on a PvP server.

 

Slightly off-topic, but there better not be an issue with PvE->PvP server transfers. If I'm asking to move from a PvE server to a PvP server, I know full well what I'm getting myself into. I don't need to be told I can't handle the ruleset, because I chose to roll on a PvE server due to unfamiliarity with the game/content, and didn't want to be farmed by a mix of beta testers and early access types who practically hit 50 by the time I bought the game on December 22nd.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ansultares

[HanoverFist]

But you don't get to do whatever you want in the game just because you paid $15..

 

What ever I want?!?!?!? You mean like play it?

 

Are kidding me? That has to be the single greatest feat of psychological projection I have seen on these boards. The greifers are the ones "doing what ever they want" All I want is to play the game without their damned interference.

 

Bioware decides what you can and cannot do to other players. And they have decided that AOE flags for PvP.

 

You provide a DEV quote or any official quote on this for that matter until then I'm done having this discussion as you are either being intentionally obtuse or simply trolling.

Edited January 26, 2012 by HanoverFist

[Frostbird]

Yeah...i hate to break it to you but its not a trick.

 

Pay attention. Stop your casts before you hit them. They will move on.

 

Just play smarter.

 

Generally they are stealthed or zip in on a speeder. Plus, they can be obnoxious just by running over and through the mobs/items you are trying to target.

 

Anyone who doesn't think this is an issue either plays on a server, hasn't had it done to them for an extended period of time or is a griefer themselves trying to avoid having their obnoxious little loophole closed.

[Valethar]

 

Again I rolled on PvE server expecting not to have to deal with this. That is what the PvE and PvP server difference was for. But seems there are some ways to exploit that.

 

Incorrect. PvP servers are constant, always on PvP. PvE servers are toggled, either mainually, or by taking action that affects another flagged player.

 

You got zinged by someone who knows how to trick you into flagging yourself. It's not an exploit, because it's working as intended.

 

The thing to do here is avoid AoE if you think someone is going to try to involuntarily flag you, or go somewhere else until the other guy gets bored and moves on.

 

This is the same system nearly every other MMO has. It's fairly easy to avoid being tricked if you're paying attention to what's going on around you.

[VarnieTsk]

Incorrect. PvP servers are constant, always on PvP. PvE servers are toggled, either mainually, or by taking action that affects another flagged player.

 

Please read the description by Bioware of their PvE servers. It specifically states that ALL PvP is by CONSENT of BOTH parties.

 

You got zinged by someone who knows how to trick you into flagging yourself. It's not an exploit, because it's working as intended.

 

Please show me a dev post or ANY official statement that this is working as intended.

 

The thing to do here is avoid AoE if you think someone is going to try to involuntarily flag you, or go somewhere else until the other guy gets bored and moves on.

 

Again. STEALTHED. HELLO. You can't always know when someone is getting ready to grief you. If you could, then it would take away all their fun.

 

And again. Why should we have to change our playstyle just to avoid pvp on a pve server when it is something that can be fixed?

 

This is the same system nearly every other MMO has. It's fairly easy to avoid being tricked if you're paying attention to what's going on around you.

 

Again. As stated numerous times in this & other threads. NO it is not the same as nearly every other MMO and no, paying attention not only doesn't always help, but is completely irrelevent to the issue.

 

And besides all that, what other games do or don't have is irrelevent, like most of the so-called rebuttals I keep seeing.

 

If I want to have to watch my back constantly for other players I would have rolled on a pvp server.

 

And I still want to know why you are so persistant in trying to discredit anyone's feelings on this.

 

Do you have a vested interest in the "feature" staying in the game?

 

Would it's removal impact your game or ruin your gameplay?

 

Tell me how it's removal would be of any detriment to you.

 

Tell me why you're so against it's removal.

 

After all, this is a discussion of the game mechanic. The only arguments I hear against it's removal are telling us we shouldn't feel the way we do. I've seen nothing that argues why this is a good thing to leave in the game.

[EternalFinality]

You provide a DEV quote or any official quote on this for that matter until then I'm done having this discussion as you are either being intentionally obtuse or simply trolling.

 

I don't need one. It is what it is, and Bioware has not said otherwise despite topics like this existing. Do the math. But if they respond otherwise, I will admit that it is not intended.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Paralassa
rude quote

[Elgarr]

First off I don't agree with this , but secondly

 

You found open world pvp on a pve server, damn wish it was like that on a pvp server, never anyone about to even gank me

[CactusBrawler]

Incorrect.

This is the same system nearly every other MMO has. It's fairly easy to avoid being tricked if you're paying attention to what's going on around you.

 

 

Actually I can't think of a signle MMO that does this.

[VarnieTsk]

First off I don't agree with this , but secondly

 

You found open world pvp on a pve server, damn wish it was like that on a pvp server, never anyone about to even gank me

 

Come to a PvE server and pretend you don't want to PvP. You'll get some action.

 

Trouble with that though is that they'll have the odds so heavily weighted against you before you know they're there that you won't really have a chance of winning. They're not looking for a fair fight. lol

Edited January 26, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[VorpalK]

I don't need one. It is what it is, and Bioware has not said otherwise despite topics like this existing. Do the math. But if they respond otherwise, I will admit that it is not intended.

 

You're clearly a PvP enthusiast though. Pardon me if I don't take your word for it.

 

If they don't respond one way or another, they're going to lose both subscriptions and reputation. The intent of a PvE ruleset such as this is not disputable. It's a standard rule set for an MMO.

 

It appears the implementation of the flag is flawed.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Paralassa
rude quote

[krinaman]

You got zinged by someone who knows how to trick you into flagging yourself. It's not an exploit, because it's working as intended.

 

I believe you are using the wrong definition for the word exploit unless you are claiming the devs intended on having players "trick" other players into PvP via this manner (which I would stunned if they did).

[EternalFinality]

You're clearly a PvP enthusiast though. Pardon me if I don't take your word for it.

 

If they don't respond one way or another, they're going to lose both subscriptions and reputation

 

I doubt it, considering several posters have indicated in this thread that if they say it's intended the way it is, they're going to quit.

 

I wouldn't answer either.

Edited January 26, 2012 by EternalFinality

[CactusBrawler]

I doubt it, considering several posters have indicated in this thread that if they say it's intended the way it is, they're going to quit.

 

I wouldn't answer either.

 

It would beg the question, why even have PVE servers, if this is working as intended.

[Sleepinator]

I have seen this situation devolve like a plague on the unconsenting masses on Tattooine where one flagged player in a shared PvE area managed to trigger a chain of dozens of other players being flagged on both sides.

 

I am fairly certain that a significant number of those players didn't even know why they had been flagged, had never been flagged before, and only had a vague idea how to get unflagged. They were actively avoiding other enemy players as a result, which perpetuated the problem as they continually reflagged their own groupmates with shared healing/buffs/guards.

 

I am also certain that a fair number of them went on to have a bad game experience when they were eventually ganked by much higher level players who took advantage of the unfolding situation.

 

I think that neither they, nor Bioware intented or expected that situation when they clicked on "PvE Server" to create their first character.

 

AoEs don't harm friendly players or their pets on PvE servers, and flagged players cannot AoE unflagged players, so the code obviously supports that fine distinction, why should it behave any differently for AoEs from a player who isn't currently flagged?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Sleepinator

[EternalFinality]

It would beg the question, why even have PVE servers, if this is working as intended.

 

The ruleset is simple - if you attack another player, you are flagged for PvP. You can attack another player either through a direct attack or through an AOE attack that hits them.

 

I don't understand how people are so baffled at the implementation, claiming it isn't a PvE server. Of course it is.

Edited January 26, 2012 by EternalFinality

[MichaelLatta]

Wow at one time did work this way. And, I have heard pvp players state this is a feature not a bug. I having no interest in world pvp definitely call it a bug. Who knows what the devs think. They are not saying, and the pvp design in the game seems full of obvious missteps.

[VarnieTsk]

Originally Posted by Valethar

You got zinged by someone who knows how to trick you into flagging yourself. It's not an exploit, because it's working as intended.

_____________________________________________________________

I believe you are using the wrong definition for the word exploit unless you are claiming the devs intended on having players "trick" other players into PvP via this manner (which I would stunned if they did).

 

It's also the same defense used by the people who were caught using exploits involving chests on Ilum, and a number of other exploits that have been addressed recently. "The game let me do it so it's not an exploit."

Edited January 26, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[VarnieTsk]

I doubt it, considering several posters have indicated in this thread that if they say it's intended the way it is, they're going to quit.

 

I wouldn't answer either.

 

Some of us have also said that if we don't get any kind of a response at all, we'll take that as meaning "working as intended."

 

And a number of people have NOT said they'd quit if working as intended but will quit if there's no acknowledment.

 

So yeah, either way, they could smooth a lot a ruffled feathers by just acknowledging us. Silence speaks volumes but also really really p****s a lot of people off.

[MichaelLatta]

The ruleset is simple - if you attack another player, you are flagged for PvP. You can attack another player either through a direct attack or through an AOE attack that hits them.

 

I don't understand how people are so baffled at the implementation, claiming it isn't a PvE server. Of course it is.

 

They understand it. The issue is that it is totally unacceptable to most pve players. Given the stealth abilities and intentional interference in clearly pve intent of unflagged players, the current rules will result in many players avoiding shared quest areas or simply quitting.

 

I could live with it being a once a year accident, but it sounds like a much more common event (bored pvp players?)

 

Swtor appeals to a much more single player or co-op game player. BW will need to be carefully to not force pvp on unintentional players. Every mmo has eventually given the player a way to fully disable pvp.

[daemian]

The ruleset is simple - if you attack another player, you are flagged for PvP. You can attack another player either through a direct attack or through an AOE attack that hits them.

 

I don't understand how people are so baffled at the implementation, claiming it isn't a PvE server. Of course it is.

 

The way I see it, the only people that would be inconvenienced by the removal of this feature are griefers. I haven't seen anyone post another reason why they require it.

[VarnieTsk]

The way I see it, the only people that would be inconvenienced by the removal of this feature are griefers. I haven't seen anyone post another reason why they require it.

 

Exactamundo!

Edited January 26, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[Havokk]

You got zinged by someone who knows how to trick you into flagging yourself.

That's the point. This behaviour means that PVP is not consensual.

 

I want PVP on a PVE ruleset server to be consensual.