Why no imperial trooper

[Sinfullyvannila]

Yeah I wish there were imperial troopers in the game. It's almost certainly not going to happen though.

 

Also to the people talking about how they wanted to be "grunts" like they were as stormtroopers in SWG, I have news for you. Stormtroopers weren't army grunts. They were actually elite forces. The only thing more elite than Stormtroopers were Imperial Guards and the specialist divisions of Stormtroopers.

 

And it's cool that you want something different from saving the world in the plot, but were you really expecting a WoW clone to innovate on any level?

[Phaedrynn]

To be honest, I'll never understand who thought it would be a good idea to put Smugglers as rep classes and BH as Imp. BH's work for whoever pays, hell the BH storyline even has them going after Imperials. Same with Smugglers. If they really wanted to keep those two classes, they shoulda made them unique and made them cross-faction. Since they already mirror classes, a proper Imp trooper being the mirror to the rep trooper would have been far more fun. As well, an SIS agent being the mirror to the Imp agent would have been fun as well.

 

This^^

 

Adding an Imperial Trooper and SIS Agent would leave (after adjusting mirroring) BH and Smugglers without mirrors. Frankly, this is fine if they also make them each unique and cross faction. Honestly, I hate 'mirror' classes in MMOs. It just ends up being two sides with the exact same make up and no distinctive attributes. Same goes with having no racial differences besides appearance and fluff. Empire and republic should FEEL different, not just be cosmetically different. But mirroring is the cheap/easy way out of 'balancing' classes (which is also a fools errand, but what ever).

[alienstalker]

Yeah I wish there were imperial troopers in the game. It's almost certainly not going to happen though.

 

Also to the people talking about how they wanted to be "grunts" like they were as stormtroopers in SWG, I have news for you. Stormtroopers weren't army grunts. They were actually elite forces. The only thing more elite than Stormtroopers were Imperial Guards and the specialist divisions of Stormtroopers.

 

And it's cool that you want something different from saving the world in the plot, but were you really expecting a WoW clone to innovate on any level?

 

Stormtroopers are not elite, they are cannon fodder. They were considered more worthless than any other army in the galaxy. Look at how awful their accuracy is in the Star Wars movies. And since there is no other army other than stormtroopers than why would stormtroopers be elite. Oh and in the Star Wars movies what was the only soldier we saw from the Empire, correct Stormtroopers.

 

But that's off topic we are about the imperial troopers. I don't think its not going to happen, I think it will happen if enough people support it.

[alienstalker]

This^^

 

Adding an Imperial Trooper and SIS Agent would leave (after adjusting mirroring) BH and Smugglers without mirrors. Frankly, this is fine if they also make them each unique and cross faction. Honestly, I hate 'mirror' classes in MMOs. It just ends up being two sides with the exact same make up and no distinctive attributes. Same goes with having no racial differences besides appearance and fluff. Empire and republic should FEEL different, not just be cosmetically different. But mirroring is the cheap/easy way out of 'balancing' classes (which is also a fools errand, but what ever).

 

I agree with you, I think that the bounty hunter and smuggler should be cross faction. I think maybe towards the end of the story for those classes, you should get to choose whether to side with the Empire or the Republic, the choose is yours.

[Vallowen]

because general empire foot soldiers are not really elite. not like the republic side with their highly trained troopers.

 

imperial agent is the closest you get to empire's top notch military. even if they dont mirror the trooper playstyle

[Liquidacid]

Bad strategy happens. What about the persians, they did worse. What about the British redcoats. They all did pretty much the same thing.

 

meh no one ever said the british were that bright... they got countries stolen from them by redneck farmers

 

Stormtroopers are not elite, they are cannon fodder. They were considered more worthless than any other army in the galaxy.

 

wrong...

 

Stormtroopers were the elite soldiers of the Galactic Empire.

 

first line

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtroopers

 

the reason their "aim was so horrible" was because they were shooting AT THE MAIN HEROES and had to miss for the story... in the battle scenes like Hoth and whatnot they mow down rebel troops like nothing.. stormtroopers were an elite force the cannon fodder was the standard imperial army soldiers ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper)

 

if you are going to argue at least take 2 seconds to actually know the lore

Edited January 10, 2012 by Liquidacid

[alienstalker]

because general empire foot soldiers are not really elite. not like the republic side with their highly trained troopers.

 

imperial agent is the closest you get to empire's top notch military. even if they dont mirror the trooper playstyle

 

I will quote what Nesta said as a response to that.

 

And i'm pretty sure the regular imperial trooper is better geared than his republic counterpart, because due to slavery the imperial industry is much better, and the imperial trooper is also better trained because of the militarist society of the empire which has a whole conscript caste (as I understand) as opposed to the republic recruiting left and right to hold its ground and match the empire's forces.

 

 

And even if the imperial trooper were truly cannon fodders, tell me how being the one succeeding against impossible odds would be bad.

 

Quote by Nesta.

 

Imperial troopers are not worse than their Republic counterparts. They were either better or the same.

[alienstalker]

meh no one ever said the british were that bright... they got countries stolen from them by redneck farmers

 

Yeah they weren't very bright. but being back on topic, the commanders at the battle of Bothanwi were dumb, and they made a very bad strategy. That doesn't mean the troopers are horrible fighters, it just means their commanders were idiots. And like I said bad strategy happens, maybe other commanders are better at leading. They're are good commanders and bad commanders, the commanders at the battle of Bothanwi were bad ones obviously.

[alienstalker]

meh no one ever said the british were that bright... they got countries stolen from them by redneck farmers

 

 

 

wrong...

 

 

 

first line

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtroopers

 

the reason their "aim was so horrible" was because they were shooting AT THE MAIN HEROES and had to miss for the story... in the battle scenes like Hoth and whatnot they mow down rebel troops like nothing.. stormtroopers were an elite force the cannon fodder was the standard imperial army soldiers ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper)

 

if you are going to argue at least take 2 seconds to actually know the lore

 

The stormtroopers were not the ones who mowed down rebels at Hoth, that was the AT-ATs pay some attention for christs sake. And I have never seen those standard imperial army soldiers your talking about, they were never in the movie because they don't exist.

[alienstalker]

meh no one ever said the british were that bright... they got countries stolen from them by redneck farmers

 

 

 

wrong...

 

 

 

first line

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtroopers

 

the reason their "aim was so horrible" was because they were shooting AT THE MAIN HEROES and had to miss for the story... in the battle scenes like Hoth and whatnot they mow down rebel troops like nothing.. stormtroopers were an elite force the cannon fodder was the standard imperial army soldiers ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper)

 

if you are going to argue at least take 2 seconds to actually know the lore

 

To back up my claim further, have you ever seen any kind of military force in Star Wars video games from the Galactic Civil war timeline other than stormtroopers. In Star Wars battlefront if you were on the Empire's side the main soldier was the stormtroopers not one of those fake imperial soldiers you speak of.

Edited January 10, 2012 by alienstalker

[Liquidacid]

The stormtroopers were not the ones who mowed down rebels at Hoth, that was the AT-ATs pay some attention for christs sake. And I have never seen those standard imperial army soldiers your talking about, they were never in the movie because they don't exist.

 

then you never watch ROJ.. because there were squads of standard imperial army enlisted running around on endor... or maybe you never saw ANH when the stormtroopers were mowing down rebel troopers boarding the Tantive IV in the very opening while taking very few losses...

 

FYI lore is what LA says it is not what you want to make it to back up your failed argument

Edited January 10, 2012 by Liquidacid

[Nesta]

imperial agent is the closest you get to empire's top notch military. even if they dont mirror the trooper playstyle

Closest but not quite the same they're not military, it's like saying the republic trooper is the closest you'll get to the SIS agent. And, it's not about mirroring the republic trooper style, there's the BH for that.

 

 

Now back to the situation at hand.

 

Take it easy guys, no poking fun at the brits or disrespecting each others !

(and alienstalker thank you for quoting me but stop multiposting for crying loud, its a disservice to your arguments whatever they may be)

 

 

We're mixing up the galactic empire and the Sith empire once more ! The Sith empire is whatever Bioware says it is (with LA consent of course) Even though it's obviously based on the galactic empire don't take one for the other.

 

And as for whether the imperial trooper would be elite or not; of course he would be because as we said before, gameplay dictates that you are one of the finest members of your faction upon leaving your starting planet.

[Bobinator]

Troopers are the special forces of the republic...Havoc Squad was known by the Imperials as the best spec force of the Republic.

 

And for the whole LOL STORM TROOPERS HAVE BAD AIM, of course they do...they were shooting at plot armor mary sues, would be silly if they just shot the heroes and ended it right there in episode 4.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Bobinator

[Ahknorath]

I wholeheartedly agree, I would love playing a Imperial Trooper wearing the armor like the ones on Dromund Kaas/Black Talon.

 

Similarly I'd like a SIS agent character.

[Corran]

meh no one ever said the british were that bright... they got countries stolen from them by redneck farmers

 

 

 

wrong...

 

 

 

first line

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtroopers

 

the reason their "aim was so horrible" was because they were shooting AT THE MAIN HEROES and had to miss for the story... in the battle scenes like Hoth and whatnot they mow down rebel troops like nothing.. stormtroopers were an elite force the cannon fodder was the standard imperial army soldiers ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper)

 

if you are going to argue at least take 2 seconds to actually know the lore

 

from the lore and the books, very little has ever been written about a great hero or anti-hero imperial soldier. about the only ones that exist were baron soonter fel (originally a member of the rebel alliance) and his son jagged fel who is mostly a tie pilot

 

however there was a lot written about republic and later galactic alliance troopers for the yuuzhan vhong war.

 

this however is here nor there. the republic got troopers due to the existence and popularity of the clone wars series. republic has smugglers due to han solo, mirax terrik, talon karrde, mara jade-skywalker, etc. imperial has bounty hunter almost entirely due to boba fett although he later trains jaina solo and helps the republic and in spite of canderou odo (whos skull you steal from an imperial treasure ship if you play smuggler. the smuggler storyline has more direct ties to kotor 1 and 2 than any of the others imo)

 

and bottom line: it's a game. remember this fact everytime you see a chiss player who by rights nobody in the old republic, imperial empire or new republic knew existed until the outbound flight project almost 2500 years after the time this game is set.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Corran

[GengisKahn]

The problem is that BH should be equal to Smuggler (i know, they are not exactly the same either but makes more sense), Republic Trooper to an Imperial Trooper and Imperial Agent to an SIS agent Edited January 10, 2012 by GengisKahn

[MeanMartian]

This is not at all how it works. Besides, special forces or not they still have no authority. They have more flexibility, but that does not equate to power. They are still held on a leash just the same as every other trooper in the republic.

 

So what she calls power you call flexibility. You both reach the same conclusion here, a special forces trooper is fun to play because they have the flexibility to make command decisions on the spot.

 

Also, do you honestly believe the Empire doesn't have special forces? Their agents are analogs of republic SIS agents, not special forces troopers. The Empire has said in numerous quests that they as well have special forces. And agent isn't a rank in the military, it's part of Intelligence. It's the CIA of the Empire, entirely independent of the Military.

 

Yes, I honestly believe the Empire doesn't have a special force equivalent to the Republic trooper. I do not believe the paranoid Siths running the Empire would allow for a squad of troopers that rivaled them for power being loyal to the already powerful Imperial military.

 

Bottom line, there is no reason why the Empire couldn't have a trooper. Woulda been far better then bounty hunters playing the mirror of a soldier.

 

Actually there are half a dozen good reasons why the Empire couldn't have a trooper.

 

• 
   
  
• Lorewise there are reasons to think a near autonomous Imperial Special Forces squad doesn't make sense.
   
  
• Technical concerns with turning the trooper, agent, smuggler, and bounty hunter into faction agnostic classes, including but not limited to assigning Republic/Empire race choices.
   
  
• There is the significant amount of extra work involved with adding story quest lines for these new 'apostate' versions of those four classes.
   
  
• Adding new dialogue options for companions, or in some cases, dramatically reworking/replacing existing companions to replace them with someone faction appropriate.
   
  
• It hurts the feel of the game, right now the two sides look and feel distinctly different while being balanced. You start adding direct mirrors, instead of just mechanical mirrors, and they will look and feel the same.
   
  
• It hurts replay value.
   
  

 

Now, I personally would rather see something more along the lines of the "faction switch" that was available in City of Heroes, but unlocked at end game. It solves a lot of these problems, encourages players to see both the Imperial and Republic leveling content, and then at end game they go where their guild is alleviating a lot of population problems. But people aren't looking to be Havoc Squad defection Pt. 2, they want to be an Imperial Trooper through and through.

Edited January 10, 2012 by MeanMartian

[Zangi]

I would play an Imperial Soldier/Trooper whatever... a story along the lines of you and your squad being abused by whatever higher command and sent to die. Of course, there may be reprieves to the abuse...

 

Though... I suppose it would be pretty hard to make a number of semi-fleshed out squadmates and having them die along the way... while also introducing new ones to replace the dead....

 

"Congratulations, you survived."

(This is what you see at the end of those Japanese PSP Gundam games... and that highlights the situation, war is not fun... in comparison to our 'heroes'.)

[NermalDetonator]

I'd really like to play an Imp trooper as well. Perhaps if they add another class type in the game at expansion, you could have one tree be a special forces/royal guard commando type tank, and another tree be an officer type with more buffs and the ability to summon trooper minions. You'd be a crapped on grunt for a while, and given the chance to rise if you wanted to.

 

Its a good opportunity to tell the story of the Imperial army from the inside, something not currently present.

[Sinfullyvannila]

You guys should really do your research before posting. The responses have been hilarious.

 

 

The reason you don't see *many* imperial army troops in the movies is because you only see the most important battles in the galactic war. Of course the imps are gonna bring in their big guns! The rebellion had a pathetically small army and the empire had more elite troops than the rebellion had standard troops.

 

 

The reason that Bioware made the game the way it is is because more people wanted to play BH than Imperial Trooper. And yes, they could have made 10 classes, mirrors for each side and then BH and Smugs neutral, but doing so would have added time and resources to an already huge project that actually didn't make as much money as most people were expecting it to. Not to mention the hassles that the neutral classes would make for PVP and storyline.

 

 

I'm sorry that BW didn't live up to your expectations and make TOR more like SWG, but SWG had it's chance and unfortunately failed. Your expectations were ridiculously unrealistic and unfair. I'd suggest you find a way to enjoy the game as is, or if you can't, accept that the game is not for you.

[nix_crash]

I think he's thinking of storm troopers. Yes there were proper storm troopers dressed in white plastic icecream boxes in the films working for the empire. It does seem a bit odd that there are troopers working for the republic because if memory serves me I never saw any republic troppers in the films, or I just haven't watched star wars enough and need to refresh my memory.

 

arent you tinking about the -wrong- empire? storm troopers are republican troopers after the republic was turned to empire by Palpatine, they have nothing to do with the old sith empire in swtor.

[Hyperionthethird]

Why on earth would they repeat the exact same character archetypes? If you want a frontline soldier story, just play the republic trooper.

 

The more unique the class mirrors feel from each other the better.

[Tewnam]

Actually there are half a dozen good reasons why the Empire couldn't have a trooper.

 

• 
   
  
• Lorewise there are reasons to think a near autonomous Imperial Special Forces squad doesn't make sense.
   
  
• Technical concerns with turning the trooper, agent, smuggler, and bounty hunter into faction agnostic classes, including but not limited to assigning Republic/Empire race choices.
   
  
• There is the significant amount of extra work involved with adding story quest lines for these new 'apostate' versions of those four classes.
   
  
• Adding new dialogue options for companions, or in some cases, dramatically reworking/replacing existing companions to replace them with someone faction appropriate.
   
  
• It hurts the feel of the game, right now the two sides look and feel distinctly different while being balanced. You start adding direct mirrors, instead of just mechanical mirrors, and they will look and feel the same.
   
  
• It hurts replay value.
   
  

 

Now, I personally would rather see something more along the lines of the "faction switch" that was available in City of Heroes, but unlocked at end game. It solves a lot of these problems, encourages players to see both the Imperial and Republic leveling content, and then at end game they go where their guild is alleviating a lot of population problems. But people aren't looking to be Havoc Squad defection Pt. 2, they want to be an Imperial Trooper through and through.

 

Your reasons aren't as good as you think.

 

 

-"Lorewise there are reasons"? So your first reason is to simply state there are reasons? This makes no sense and I can't think of anything specifically in the lore to make me believe that the Empire would not have special forces units everywhere. They are a necessary component of military operations. Virtually every army in history has had a special forces unit in some form or another to bring the elite together to be able to perform actions the masses cannot.

 

-The only technical concerns are that storylines would have to be created. You would still have to select a faction at character select, and an Imperial Bounty Hunter would be identical to how it is now. Why would that change? Race selections would be limited by faction as it is now. More could be added in the future, but that's not a limitation.

 

-About adding storylines, see previous comment. This isn't a reason to not do it, as I'm sure there would be a lot of people in this game that would be very interested in rolling any new characters with new storylines that BioWare creates. I know I plan to eventually play a character of every base class to 50, and I'm sure that I'm not alone.

 

-Companion work would be part of the storyline work. These classes wouldn't use any existing companions, so I'm not sure what you're referring to that would need to be updated. The Republic Bounty Hunter wouldn't start on Hutta and may not even compete in the Great Hunt, depending on how they wanted to tell the story, and so would not meet the same people.

 

-Look and feel of the game could be a possible concern, but is very subjective. I think the classes could be distinct enough that they would still be unique. What would you think if instead of the Imperial Trooper being a mirror for the Republic Trooper, it's a mirror for the newly added Republic Bounty Hunter and they were to both use aim-based medium armor with new, unique mechanics? Nothing says they have to be identical to the current classes.

 

-It hurts replay value? What? I don't understand how you can even claim something like this, because it's complete trash. Adding new classes to a game ADDS replay value.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Tewnam

[Nesta]

Why on earth would they repeat the exact same character archetypes? If you want a frontline soldier story, just play the republic trooper.

 

The more unique the class mirrors feel from each other the better.

 

Are you aware that there are 4 force user classes ? Two of which are part of the same order (Jedi Order) ? And that the other two are part of its empire counterpart (Sith Order) ? And that gameplay wise they are mirror classes ?

 

I repeat myself but how is having two soldier classes such a scary idea ?

Being a new class it would have its own story as well as its own gameplay; I can't believe Bioware has made every concievable class concept in this game as of yet, there is still room for new classes in expensions. And there seems to be a demand for the imperial trooper as this thread demonstrates.

 

 

Additionnaly sorry to burst your bubble but there are lots of stormtrooper fans out there, and the imperial trooper would be its closest equivalent in the era of the game, for the clone trooper on which is based the republic trooper are poor substitute for that soldier fighting for the apparently evil side and having to deal with Sith.

 

That Plus awesome design.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Nesta

[Hvidhajen]

But i wanna play a storm trooper