Why no imperial trooper

[alienstalker]

then you never watch ROJ.. because there were squads of standard imperial army enlisted running around on endor... or maybe you never saw ANH when the stormtroopers were mowing down rebel troopers boarding the Tantive IV in the very opening while taking very few losses...

 

FYI lore is what LA says it is not what you want to make it to back up your failed argument

 

What you say is laughable. There were no standard army on Endor. And when they boarded Tantive IV they got slaughtered while walking in. They took alot of casualties. And why would there be a pretty much infinite supply of stormtroopers if they were elite. By saying stormtroopers are elite you have lost all credibility in Star Wars knowledge.

[alienstalker]

I wholeheartedly agree, I would love playing a Imperial Trooper wearing the armor like the ones on Dromund Kaas/Black Talon.

 

Similarly I'd like a SIS agent character.

 

Thanks for the support.

[alienstalker]

Closest but not quite the same they're not military, it's like saying the republic trooper is the closest you'll get to the SIS agent. And, it's not about mirroring the republic trooper style, there's the BH for that.

 

 

Now back to the situation at hand.

 

Take it easy guys, no poking fun at the brits or disrespecting each others !

(and alienstalker thank you for quoting me but stop multiposting for crying loud, its a disservice to your arguments whatever they may be)

 

 

We're mixing up the galactic empire and the Sith empire once more ! The Sith empire is whatever Bioware says it is (with LA consent of course) Even though it's obviously based on the galactic empire don't take one for the other.

 

And as for whether the imperial trooper would be elite or not; of course he would be because as we said before, gameplay dictates that you are one of the finest members of your faction upon leaving your starting planet.

 

I think he should remain generic for longer than the starting planet though. I multi-post to respond to arguments.

[alienstalker]

Actually there are half a dozen good reasons why the Empire couldn't have a trooper.

 

• 
   
  
• Lorewise there are reasons to think a near autonomous Imperial Special Forces squad doesn't make sense.
   
  
• Technical concerns with turning the trooper, agent, smuggler, and bounty hunter into faction agnostic classes, including but not limited to assigning Republic/Empire race choices.
   
  
• There is the significant amount of extra work involved with adding story quest lines for these new 'apostate' versions of those four classes.
   
  
• Adding new dialogue options for companions, or in some cases, dramatically reworking/replacing existing companions to replace them with someone faction appropriate.
   
  
• It hurts the feel of the game, right now the two sides look and feel distinctly different while being balanced. You start adding direct mirrors, instead of just mechanical mirrors, and they will look and feel the same.
   
  
• It hurts replay value.
   
  

 

 

I want to be generic not special forces.

 

Like what?

 

Its their job, they can't sit around and do nothing all day. They probably would even want to make a new story.

 

What i said before.

 

Actually it looks and feels the same right now, doing this would make it better.

 

How the heck does it hurt replay value. It improves replay value dramatically.

Edited January 11, 2012 by alienstalker

[alienstalker]

I'd really like to play an Imp trooper as well. Perhaps if they add another class type in the game at expansion, you could have one tree be a special forces/royal guard commando type tank, and another tree be an officer type with more buffs and the ability to summon trooper minions. You'd be a crapped on grunt for a while, and given the chance to rise if you wanted to.

 

Its a good opportunity to tell the story of the Imperial army from the inside, something not currently present.

 

I agree, thanks for the support and good ideas.

[alienstalker]

I would play an Imperial Soldier/Trooper whatever... a story along the lines of you and your squad being abused by whatever higher command and sent to die. Of course, there may be reprieves to the abuse...

 

Though... I suppose it would be pretty hard to make a number of semi-fleshed out squadmates and having them die along the way... while also introducing new ones to replace the dead....

 

"Congratulations, you survived."

(This is what you see at the end of those Japanese PSP Gundam games... and that highlights the situation, war is not fun... in comparison to our 'heroes'.)

 

True that, thanks for the support and ideas.

[alienstalker]

Your reasons aren't as good as you think.

 

• "Lorewise there are reasons"? So your first reason is to simply state there are reasons? This makes no sense and I can't think of anything specifically in the lore to make me believe that the Empire would not have special forces units everywhere. They are a necessary component of military operations. Virtually every army in history has had a special forces unit in some form or another to bring the elite together to be able to perform actions the masses cannot.
   
  
• The only technical concerns are that storylines would have to be created. You would still have to select a faction at character select, and an Imperial Bounty Hunter would be identical to how it is now. Why would that change? Race selections would be limited by faction as it is now. More could be added in the future, but that's not a limitation.
   
  
• About adding storylines, see previous comment. This isn't a reason to not do it, as I'm sure there would be a lot of people in this game that would be very interested in rolling any new characters with new storylines that BioWare creates. I know I plan to eventually play a character of every base class to 50, and I'm sure that I'm not alone.
   
  
• Companion work would be part of the storyline work. These classes wouldn't use any existing companions, so I'm not sure what you're referring to that would need to be updated. The Republic Bounty Hunter wouldn't start on Hutta and may not even compete in the Great Hunt, depending on how they wanted to tell the story, and so would not meet the same people.
   
  
• Look and feel of the game could be a possible concern, but is very subjective. I think the classes could be distinct enough that they would still be unique. What would you think if instead of the Imperial Trooper being a mirror for the Republic Trooper, it's a mirror for the newly added Republic Bounty Hunter and they were to both use aim-based medium armor with new, unique mechanics? Nothing says they have to be identical to the current classes.
   
  
• It hurts replay value? What? I don't understand how you can even claim something like this, because it's complete trash. Adding new classes to a game ADDS replay value.
   
  

 

Thank you for the well said argument.

[NermalDetonator]

But i wanna play a storm trooper

 

We're about 3,000 years too eary, but yeah, something in the imperial military would be cool.

 

And lets throw out "realism" on how a trooper would be able to take a jedi. Given that there are level 30 sandpeople and jawas running around who actually do kill jedis in quests (and me), lets keep in mind this is a game. There's tough troopers at all levels. Jedi also appear to share the law of conservation of ninjitsu. When there's 1-2 ninja/jedi, they're ******. When there's thousands, they get killed by mall cops/womp rats.

 

Also, those NPC military quest givers dont seem powerless to me, since they're always ordering you around. Just because you start in the army doesnt mean you only end up doing Darth Whatever's laundry. Tarkin certainly had Vader by the short hairs.

Edited January 11, 2012 by NermalDetonator

[alienstalker]

Are you aware that there are 4 force user classes ? Two of which are part of the same order (Jedi Order) ? And that the other two are part of its empire counterpart (Sith Order) ? And that gameplay wise they are mirror classes ?

 

I repeat myself but how is having two soldier classes such a scary idea ?

Being a new class it would have its own story as well as its own gameplay; I can't believe Bioware has made every concievable class concept in this game as of yet, there is still room for new classes in expensions. And there seems to be a demand for the imperial trooper as this thread demonstrates.

 

 

Additionnaly sorry to burst your bubble but there are lots of stormtrooper fans out there, and the imperial trooper would be its closest equivalent in the era of the game, for the clone trooper on which is based the republic trooper are poor substitute for that soldier fighting for the apparently evil side and having to deal with Sith.

 

That Plus awesome design.

 

Thank you for another well said argument.

[miscery]

That would be rather pointless. The Bounty Hunter is gameplay wise exactly the same as the Trooper. And the Smuggler is identical to the Agent. Why would you give a faction the same class twice?

 

The Smuggler is NOT identical to the Agent other than the fact that they both operate primarily from cover. Sniper rifle vs. blaster pistol(s)? Seriously, even the skillset is different. I hate to say it but I agree with OP on this...need an Imp soldier and a Rep SIS agent added to the game along with a few more races for flavor.

 

But also, if you want to get technical, BH and Smuggler should be cross faction classes as both tend to go where the money is and try not to choose sides because it's bad for business...

Edited January 11, 2012 by miscery

[Darth_Victus]

Because Imperial Troopers are nothing but cannon fodder.

[alienstalker]

We're about 3,000 years too eary, but yeah, something in the imperial military would be cool.

 

And lets throw out "realism" on how a trooper would be able to take a jedi. Given that there are level 30 sandpeople and jawas running around who actually do kill jedis in quests (and me), lets keep in mind this is a game. There's tough troopers at all levels. Jedi also appear to share the law of conservation of ninjitsu. When there's 1-2 ninja/jedi, they're ******. When there's thousands, they get killed by mall cops/womp rats.

 

Also, those NPC military quest givers dont seem powerless to me, since they're always ordering you around. Just because you start in the army doesnt mean you only end up doing Darth Whatever's laundry. Tarkin certainly had Vader by the short hairs.

 

I actually agree on that, we all know that video games can't be completely realistic, it wouldn't be as fun if call of duty missions always made you do boring things. So thanks for the support and ideas.

[alienstalker]

The Smuggler is NOT identical to the Agent other than the fact that they both operate primarily from cover. Sniper rifle vs. blaster pistol(s)? Seriously, even the skillset is different. I hate to say it but I agree with OP on this...need an Imp soldier and a Rep SIS agent added to the game along with a few more races for flavor.

 

But also, if you want to get technical, BH and Smuggler should be cross faction classes as both tend to go where the money is and try not to choose sides because it's bad for business...

 

Thanks for the support, but why do you hate to say that you agree with me?

[alienstalker]

Because Imperial Troopers are nothing but cannon fodder.

 

If you had read a little more of the thread, which you obviously didn't go past the few posts, you would realize that we want to be regular soldiers, and not elite.

Edited January 11, 2012 by alienstalker

[krameriffic]

If you had read a little more of the thread, which you obviously didn't go past the few posts, you would realize that we want to be regular soldiers, and not elite.

 

And if you had any conception of the fundamentals of MMO game design, you would realize that this is not going to happen. But then, you equated the BH with the smuggler, which shows just how much you actually know about the game.

[SirJahi]

i want IMP TROOPER!

i want THE BFG!

i DON'T want the LAME JET PACK!

i DON'T want the LAME REPUBLICANS!

[Tewnam]

And if you had any conception of the fundamentals of MMO game design, you would realize that this is not going to happen. But then, you equated the BH with the smuggler, which shows just how much you actually know about the game.

 

You are correct that from a game mechanics perspective, the BH is the mirror of the Trooper rather than the Smuggler. However, from a theme/conceptual standpoint, the BH and Smuggler are very similar characters. They don't operate directly under the command of any faction and adhere to their own rules.

 

I would enjoy playing a Trooper on the Imperial side.

[Asturias]

The problem being that Imperial Troopers? Aren't important. At all. It would be hard to make a storyline about someone who has absolutely no power in the Empire at all.

 

This says it all regarding the class choice for each side. Take the movies for instant and KOTOR 1 for example and think.

 

Republic is all about deplomacy so leave that to the Senators and Jedi's.

 

Empire is all about deception and brute force and they leave that to the Agents and Sith Warriors.

 

The Sith are the highest political structure in the Empire and has the only political say.

 

The Republic is different and they don't give the Jedi full control of the political spectrum.

 

Its like Communism vs a Republic society.

 

Now with this said the Republic does have agents but what could they really do? I believe the Republic would have anti assasination laws and the Jedi's wouldn't allow it. Imperial Trooper are not important and all they really are is bullet stoppers for the Sith.

[Nesta]

The sith are the highest political structure in the empire and has the only political say.

 

The republic is different and they don't give the jedi full control of the political spectrum.

 

Its like communism vs a republic society.

 

Now with this said the republic does have agents but what could they really do? I believe the republic would have anti assasination laws and the jedi's wouldn't allow it. Imperial trooper are not important and all they really are is bullet stoppers for the sith.

 

Sure grand moffs hold no power as demonstrated in the black talon. While on the other hand republic army Majors get to sit at the senate.

 

As far as I've seen the Jedi order is more like a peacekeeping force than anything else the true political power is in the hands of the senate.

 

Anti assassination laws ? Are you for real ?! The Jedi order has its own assassins (Shadows I mean).

Additionally I'm pretty sure the SIS is not only there for intelligence gathering.

 

As for imperial trooper being cannon fodder, come on ! How are the republic troopers any different ? And the tide of the war before the treaty of Coruscant was in the empire's favors, and the war was not only waged by Jedi and Sith but mostly by soldiers, take that as you will.

[Bgiffo]

ITT: "Wai u no maek SWG 2.0?"

[ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR]

Main reason you can't play certain types of characters would be so players can enjoy playing classes based on memorable characters from the Star Wars franchise.

 

And after playing the game long enough I felt that the lives of Imperial grunts were very short due to the fact that the Empire sends their grunts to death very quickly or give them a punishment of death so readily.

Edited January 12, 2012 by ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR

[nix_crash]

What you say is laughable. There were no standard army on Endor. And when they boarded Tantive IV they got slaughtered while walking in. They took alot of casualties. And why would there be a pretty much infinite supply of stormtroopers if they were elite. By saying stormtroopers are elite you have lost all credibility in Star Wars knowledge.

 

"elite" is a relative matter - when you have hundreds of world counting billions of citizens each at your disposal to get your minions an "elite" force can be of several -millions- strong.

[Beatzock]

To be honest, I'll never understand who thought it would be a good idea to put Smugglers as rep classes and BH as Imp. BH's work for whoever pays, hell the BH storyline even has them going after Imperials. Same with Smugglers. If they really wanted to keep those two classes, they shoulda made them unique and made them cross-faction. Since they already mirror classes, a proper Imp trooper being the mirror to the rep trooper would have been far more fun. As well, an SIS agent being the mirror to the Imp agent would have been fun as well.

 

 

 

Good idea right there.

[Hyperionthethird]

Are you aware that there are 4 force user classes ? Two of which are part of the same order (Jedi Order) ? And that the other two are part of its empire counterpart (Sith Order) ? And that gameplay wise they are mirror classes ?

 

I repeat myself but how is having two soldier classes such a scary idea ?

Being a new class it would have its own story as well as its own gameplay; I can't believe Bioware has made every concievable class concept in this game as of yet, there is still room for new classes in expensions. And there seems to be a demand for the imperial trooper as this thread demonstrates.

 

 

Additionnaly sorry to burst your bubble but there are lots of stormtrooper fans out there, and the imperial trooper would be its closest equivalent in the era of the game, for the clone trooper on which is based the republic trooper are poor substitute for that soldier fighting for the apparently evil side and having to deal with Sith.

 

That Plus awesome design.

 

playing through the stories of a sith warrior or inquisitor is going to be totally different from jedis. I don't believe for a second there is the demand for 2 different trooper classes either. I think the way the class mirrors are set up are pretty much perfect. If you want to play a stormtrooper just do it on the republic side.

 

 

Also people thinking it would be simple to change this up are out of their minds, what's bioware going to to do totally change either the bounty hunter or trooper classes on people, transform one of them into a totally different class mechanically?

 

It's just a terrible idea all in all.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Hyperionthethird

[Tehroth]

See, it's this very misconception and ignorance to general SW lore that perpetrates the whole "I want to be a special snowflake" mentality. The truth is, in SW, a farmer with a blaster can kill the mightiest of sith lords. They're powerful when focused and paying attention, but if you catch them by surprise they are exceptionally easy to take out. That "Hope" trailer was a good example of your very normal soldiers taking on sith. A huge flaw of force users is they can't move at the speed of light. Their lightsaber can only be in one place at a time. This is why high rate of fire weapons can tear down jedi, they simply can't block it all.

 

So like it or not, you're only as powerful as you are because the story makes you out to be some prodigy. In actual lore, most sith and jedi are fairly weak and fall quite fast in concentrated warfare. The clone wars is a good example of this, and they were fighting inferior droids no less.

 

But again, just because YOU want to be a special little snowflake doesn't mean everyone else wants to be. As shown in this thread, people do want to try things from the other side of the coin. People do want to play the generic soldier just doing his duty. People don't always want to be this amazing hero with insane abilities, they want to just be an ordinary man who manages to do the extraordinary.

 

Which is still going back to the original story plot numnuts. Everyone starts off as a peasant peon and works their way up. If you are generic soldier 1832701 and kill a Jedi you'll probably get promoted. Soldiers can become Grand Moffs in the long scheme of things as seen by Tarkin.

 

The only feasible way your idea could work is if they have a cut scene for of your quests depicting some act of luck on how you managed to kill a Jedi master or blow up a ship. Like if you tripped and fell and caught the Jedi off guard shooting him in the face.

 

Other than that it would still go back to the same thing where you are weak but grow strong and if you were a ordinary soldier slaying Jedi you wouldn't be ordinary anymore.

 

but it doesnt work that way. the grand moff isn't a soldier, and probably never was one. thats forgetting the fact that the grand moff is part of the navy, and that most probably start out as officers.

 

this thread is about imperial troopers. comparing comparing a soldier to what amounts to an admiral just doesn't really make a good case.

 

keeper has quite a lot of power as well, that doesnt mean he is a good example of why there should be imperial troopers

 

Grand moff was a grunt starting off and worked his way up the chain of command. He is no ordinary soldier though, hence why he still lives.

 

I wouldn't mind playing a generic average grunt, but like said story wise it doesn't make very much sense for you to be taking out whole armies alone and the whole point of playing a grunt would be story wise. Each time you go into battle you'd have to come back injured, but coming back time and time again from battles other grunts couldn't do just doesn't fit into the story of a themepark game. Swg didn't focus on story elements as much so it has some leeway being a sandbox everyone created their own destiny.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Tehroth