Why no imperial trooper

[MasterRequiem]

How about a compromise. You play a moderately high ranked soldier with exceptional combat abilities. Not the best of the best spec ops, but above average. As to why you fight alone, BW can use the same excuses they use for the other eight classes. The amount of times I have done missions as a sith warrior and the soldiers are "just behind me" is ridiculous. In terms of balance, it doesn't matter. For example, how can a sith inquisitor who is a powerful sith lord and head of the dark council lose to a lightly armoured twi-lek who is duel-wielding blasters?.The same reason I don't I kill my enemies in one hit with my lightsabre. Therefore a grunt could still fight alongside everyone else. That about counters any arguments against this rather nice idea.

Also, the IT doesn't have to be a mirror to the RT, but a new class entirely with its own mechanics.

 

-Brad

Edited May 5, 2012 by MasterRequiem
Doesn't make sense

[Sivenom]

How about a compromise. You play a moderately high ranked soldier with exceptional combat abilities. Not the best of the best spec ops, but above average. As to why you fight alone, BW can use the same excuses they use for the other eight classes. The amount of times I have done missions as a sith warrior and the soldiers are "just behind me" is ridiculous. In terms of balance, it doesn't matter. For example, how can a sith inquisitor who is a powerful sith lord and head of the dark council lose to a lightly armoured twi-lek who is duel-wielding blasters?.The same reason I don't I kill my enemies in one hit with my lightsabre. Therefore a grunt could still fight alongside everyone else. That about counters any arguments against this rather nice idea.

Also, the IT doesn't have to be a mirror to the RT, but a new class entirely with its own mechanics.

 

-Brad

Assuming you CAN get away with it on the class quest and somehow get away with it on the planet stories(which to me seems more than a little stacked against you.... try a lot actually), you'd have to come up with a mirror class to the Imperial Commando for the reps to use which would have to be...................... Serving droid? Astromech droid? .....Senator-who-isn't-supposed-to-leave-the-senate-except-for-vacation/get-re-elected? Republic is a little more one sided than imperials are in the sheer fact that they don't HAVE a need for a hierarchy.

 

Imperial hierarchy says "if you ain't a sith, you're a prole". Imperial non-Sith say "if you ain't in intelligence, you're a soldier". imperial soldiers don't say anything because they're being used as fodder. And even then they still don't say anything because as soon as they die, they're attached to some makeshift medieval catapult and launched into their enemies, because hey, you know, go green and all that. I have yet to see an imperial soldier outrank anyone. Except that one time on balmoora when one of them said "hey there's a sith that wants to talk to you and the governor, you should go there" and I was like "...do I know you?" and he's like "ORDERS ARE ORDERS <give quest> BAI".

 

So there's that.

 

Then there's also the case that.... You know, the republic does the same thing, except they're a little smarter than that and instead have what we like to call Havoc Squad. Which is like... seal team 6. In space. And even then you are essentially Captain Republic. There's such a HUGE difference between the trooper and the actual troops that it's a MAJOR PLOT POINT for them. Trooper class != republic foot soldier. Which would be what a trooper is in the empire; a foot soldier. There is no gaining ranks in the empire for the troops.

 

If you can even justify PAST ^ that stuff there, that is canon in SWTOR (so you don't even need to leave the game to figure this out), then what could possibly fill in the class gap for republic? Again, they all have freedom of moving ranks in their society so you'd need to be like... a new section of society entirely. Which leaves room for what? Maintenance crew? Senators? And even if you found a lineman that can fit the mirror (ie. ranged heals/dps and melee tank/dps because we are assuming the troopers work the same, but not mirrored exactly, otherwise this argument would make less sense) of an imp trooper, the question is how can you make it NOT look like a knockoff of a rep trooper. Because the only way you can have an imp trooper and its rep mirror is to make it a rough-and-tough no-holds-barred imma-kick-your-*** class. And unfortunately we have one already. The rep trooper/BH classes. The only other real thing we're missing is... as I've stated on the last page ... is a support class. And a trooper, no matter what convoluted scheme you have to justify it being there in an imp world, IS NOT A SUPPORT.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Sivenom

[Wrightshire]

I would prefer to be an elite Imperial Trooper than Agent. That armour... ******. I mean, surely the Imperial Army must have a Havoc Squad-esque elite group?

[Maaruin]

Agreed on the mon calamari... might be tempted to actually try rep side then.

 

But summoners just don't work in a game that inherently gives you a combat companion. It is like saying you can use 5 companions at once(ship droid included), but they only have 3 moves each. AND you get to use the 6th as a normal companion. It's overload, and will definitely require too many buttons with not enough action bars.

 

A support class you revolve more around say if you give Minor Buff on GroupGuy1 to a three stack, then you can use Major Heal rank 3 on GroupGuy1, or you can use Minor Heal rank 3 on anyone. If you use Minor Buff on an enemy instead, the enemy will get x% ap reduction and that will determine how much Major Damage Beam does to the enemy. There would be different situations, different prerequisites for your "combo" moves like Minor Heal, Major Damage Bea, and Major Heal in my example.

 

Ideally it would work like you could have a AP increase (enemy: decrease) , defense increase (enemy: decrease), and damage output increase (enemy: decrease) buff which would stack to an arbitrary number, and increase the effect of your bigger combo moves. You can spend the stacks of a same school for a major buff, or mix and match for different effects.. etc. Think of how wow's DK rune system works. Need unholy rune for plague strike(enemy debuff), frost rune for ice touch(enemy debuff). BUT you need unholy runes and frost runes for obliterate (damage increases relative to num. of debuffs).

 

I see how it works in groups, but how would it work if you play alone. You can support your companion, but it just wouldn't feel like you are an officer. (And it would be very close to healer, wouldn't it?)

 

I mean, you don't need to control the adds like a companion. They could work completely on their own. There are some quest where you fight together with NPC soldiers. It could be a little like this.

And like you toggle lightsaber forms on JK or SW, here you toggle the troops who accompany you. Or there is an ability that summons them and after a while they disappear.

[JediElf]

I'd love to play a whole story as an Imperial trooper! I think that's a lovely idea.

 

It would be interesting to see the story from the perceptive of a trooper, and perhaps slowly move up the ranks in the Imp army.

 

Wonderful idea! That would make for a good expansion class.

[Cylux]

Jeez, if you'd listen to all these "you'd be nobody as an imperial trooper and that'd be boring" you'd think you were living in a world where Tie Fighter didn't come out and was awesome.

 

Lets see now, what was the overall arc of that game now? Start off as just a nobody expendable tie fighter points on some boring patrol out in the sticks scanning ships for contraband, then thanks entirely to your own competency abilities you finish the game being given shore leave by Palpatine himself for working so brilliantly for the empire and setting the stage for his trap with the second death star. Did I mention joining the emperor's secret society and becoming one of his hands like Mara Jade?

 

Yeah, no room for decent story lines for an Imperial trooper, just cannon fodder, etc etc.

[Cylux]

Also, you'd likely gain entry to the Imperial guard, who chuffing well do boss Sith about!

[Ranadiel_Marius]

I would prefer to be an elite Imperial Trooper than Agent. That armour... ******. I mean, surely the Imperial Army must have a Havoc Squad-esque elite group?

 

Shadow Fist

 

 

They get killed off by the RT's reformed Havoc Squad, that is at about half strength at the time, in the middle of Chapter 1.

 

 

I think you can get the majority of the Imperial Trooper armor as social armor though.

[Clonedzero]

yeah, why not be imperial guard? get the cool red armor, doing dirty deeds for the emperor. maybe often times doing stuff behind the councils back. wacky stuff like that.

[Sivenom]

I see how it works in groups, but how would it work if you play alone. You can support your companion, but it just wouldn't feel like you are an officer. (And it would be very close to healer, wouldn't it?)

 

I mean, you don't need to control the adds like a companion. They could work completely on their own. There are some quest where you fight together with NPC soldiers. It could be a little like this.

And like you toggle lightsaber forms on JK or SW, here you toggle the troops who accompany you. Or there is an ability that summons them and after a while they disappear.

 

It would still work solo the same way a healer sorc can solo without a group, or a powertech can range dps/tank something.... just use it on the enemy.. Like I said before, if you put the stack on an enemy instead, it would power up your attack. Or even just buffing yourself only to gain the available build=up to launch a combo.

 

I see what your saying on a summoner class, but it would nee a ton of tweaking. I would be concerned with how OP it would be.... consider it in pvp. You can accidentally deselect someone, or your target vanishes, and you autoselect that dude's companion. You are effectively wasting time killing an npc while the summoner who is 100% defenseless without it[which isn't very fun at all] or fine without it beats you down while you're finding out where the hell this npc came from.

[Maaruin]

It would still work solo the same way a healer sorc can solo without a group, or a powertech can range dps/tank something.... just use it on the enemy.. Like I said before, if you put the stack on an enemy instead, it would power up your attack. Or even just buffing yourself only to gain the available build=up to launch a combo.

 

I see what your saying on a summoner class, but it would nee a ton of tweaking. I would be concerned with how OP it would be.... consider it in pvp. You can accidentally deselect someone, or your target vanishes, and you autoselect that dude's companion. You are effectively wasting time killing an npc while the summoner who is 100% defenseless without it[which isn't very fun at all] or fine without it beats you down while you're finding out where the hell this npc came from.

 

Maybe it could have different effects in PvP/group. There are already some skills that effect players in another way then they effect NPCs. So maybe if you are alone/undersized group, it summons NPC's, if you are in a full/ops group, it benefits the players close to you.

 

(For example: Alone the "Reinforcements" skill calls 3 standard troopers. In a group, up to 3 players close to you get the NPC's health as bonus and the NPC's damage as bonus for 5sec. Of course it would have a long cooldown. I'm not sure if that's balanced, but just as example.)

[The_Dark_Lord]

Jeez, if you'd listen to all these "you'd be nobody as an imperial trooper and that'd be boring" you'd think you were living in a world where Tie Fighter didn't come out and was awesome.

 

Lets see now, what was the overall arc of that game now? Start off as just a nobody expendable tie fighter points on some boring patrol out in the sticks scanning ships for contraband, then thanks entirely to your own competency abilities you finish the game being given shore leave by Palpatine himself for working so brilliantly for the empire and setting the stage for his trap with the second death star. Did I mention joining the emperor's secret society and becoming one of his hands like Mara Jade?

 

Yeah, no room for decent story lines for an Imperial trooper, just cannon fodder, etc etc.

 

I'm definitely with this as far as the fact that yes, you can write an Imperial Trooper story where the main character is "heroic" and even important. Sure, anyone with a lightsaber might automatically be your CO for the better part of your career and therefore view you as glorified cannon fodder, but that doesn't mean there isn't a set of ranks through which to rise and eventually reach a position in which you have real clout and power over anyone whose name doesn't start with "Darth." In fact, I would say that "Captain of the Imperial Guard" is the logical end-point for an Imp trooper story, in which case you answer directly to the Emperor.

 

The real question is, is there anything in the above story that isn't more than adequately covered by an existing class? Not really. You want a war story where you blast your way across the galaxy, earning accolades along the way? Play a (Republic) Trooper. You want to see the Empire from a non-Sith point of view and deal with the realities of its hierarchy? Play an Agent. You want to start as a nobody who gets treated like dirt by everyone he meets but eventually rises to a position of real power? Play an Inquisitor.

 

TL;DR version: Yes, you can write a good Imperial Trooper story. Problem is, it would be an incredibly redundant story.

[Sivenom]

Maybe it could have different effects in PvP/group. There are already some skills that effect players in another way then they effect NPCs. So maybe if you are alone/undersized group, it summons NPC's, if you are in a full/ops group, it benefits the players close to you.

 

(For example: Alone the "Reinforcements" skill calls 3 standard troopers. In a group, up to 3 players close to you get the NPC's health as bonus and the NPC's damage as bonus for 5sec. Of course it would have a long cooldown. I'm not sure if that's balanced, but just as example.)

 

That kind of split would be totally neat I'd think. But instead of just 3 people around (b/c what if your op has to stack on one point?) It could take the combined total and split it evenly to people within a 12yd range or something, whatever the max range the npc guys would have.

 

Now that I think of it, I'd like to see what your suggesting with the whole summoner class idea just to see what'd happen (assuming it does do the split for groups as you suggested)

[Maaruin]

That kind of split would be totally neat I'd think. But instead of just 3 people around (b/c what if your op has to stack on one point?) It could take the combined total and split it evenly to people within a 12yd range or something, whatever the max range the npc guys would have.

 

Yeah, that would also work. The details would of course have to be tested for balancing.

 

Now that I think of it, I'd like to see what your suggesting with the whole summoner class idea just to see what'd happen (assuming it does do the split for groups as you suggested)

 

Sorry, I don't quite understand the question. Do you mean what would happen storywise?

[Joious]

I'll say it again, but to the naysayers who are all "there's no story because you're no one", who cares? Maybe I don't WANT to be someone? Maybe I WANT to just be a normal guy with a blaster fighting to defend his empire? We already have a storyline about an amazing war hero who graduated top of his class at the academy and is recognized by the senate for his greatness. It's mirror can be the opposite. A storyline about a very generic soldier who has to deal with demanding superiors who do not respect their subordinates and yet through all this they have to persevere and continue to fight for their empire.

 

Again, just because the class is mirrored does not mean the storyline should be.

 

 

just had a scene in my head... at the end of one of the acts, you get the chance to kill one of your superiors for their position while you are alone, or spare them.

 

yum....

[DeutschGamer]

Waste of resources, little interest (you are a minority), and if they made a fifth class they would make one for both factions and it would be a lot more unique than a silly mirror.

[TheManAndres]

if you read the lore about general Hesker of the imperial guard he just started as a grunt who refused to be cannon fodder for the sith and why wouldn't the trooper end up in the imperial guard that seems logical to me.

[Charon]

Wrong. Play Smuggler, then play agent. They are very similar. Now play trooper and then play BH. Smuggler is nothing like BH in terms of gameplay. Even in lore since smugglers, you know smuggle goods and such, only killing if they need to. BH kill for profit.

 

Bounty Hunters don't always kill sometimes a bounty is more valuable alive. Plus some BH's have a code of honor.

[VanorDM]

Waste of resources, little interest (you are a minority)...

 

Minority of who?

 

People who want another class added into the game?

People who play SWTOR?

 

In order to be a minority that means you have to be a smaller group then someone else. But you don't say what the other group is so that comment is a bit of nonsense.

 

Considering the number of times I've seen an Imperial Trooper class be requested, there's actually a fair amount of interest in adding one. In fact I'd say it's the single most asked for class to be added into the game.

[DeadlyScythe]

Sigh. Ok let's go through this.

 

Those troopers in that cinematic? Yeah, normal troopers. Even if the commander guy was something special, the soldiers under his command weren't. Yet they were still taking out sith left and right until they got overwhelmed by superior numbers.

 

While force users do have minor precognition, it's not all knowing. How it works is they get a sense of danger, spidey-sense if you will. But that's it. They don't know what form the danger will take or where it will come from. So while this helps in a straight up fight, 1v1 sort of thing, it doesn't help in a warzone situation.

 

And Jedi did butcher droids in the clone wars. But it is canon that droids are vastly inferior to organics. They lack the adaptability and general skill of organics. There are plenty of instances where soldiers have taken out jedi as well, all throughout canon.

 

Also the timeframe of TOR makes this even more plausible. It was stated in KOTOR that with so many forcers around, the galaxy at whole had developed means to fight them quite efficiently. Even normal soldiers could sword fight with them due to training and vibroblades. This holds true for TOR, even moreso given the war. Soldiers are TRAINED to kill force users because they fight force users on a regular basis. So unlike other time periods, TOR is even more suited for generic soldiers to hold their own.

 

You say it's not practical, but that's a blatant lie. Plenty of stories involve fairly average people. In fact the best stories out there are the ones that don't deal with amazing superheroes. I may be a generic soldier, but I have good armor, good training, and a good weapon. And should I get injured there is bacta and kolto to heal my right up. Like it or not, there really isn't much you can say to discredit an imperial trooper storyline.

 

hope trailer? that was havoc squad m8. All those troopers were members of Havoc squad. basicly what they did on alderaan is what turned them in a Spec ops force. and later the Best spec ops force of the Republic.

[DarthRamette]

I personally would love to see a SIS agent for the Republic as I loved the Imperial Agent story and likewise an Imperial Trooper, like a person who made thier way from the bottom to command of the Imperial Guard.

[Kayin]

First time when bios came to the site, that introduced some central characters, there was "independent" in the middle. I thought back then that you could drop out from the Imps-reps cycle also in the game, but it seems to be damn hard. For bounty hunters and smugglers independent working with either side or even out of them should be possible. My proposal is factions (like in AoC). There could be point system in the game that would give you "faction affection" (or whatever you want to call it) according to players actions. This would determine the popularity or unpopularity of the character among factions like Hutts, Mandalorians, The Exchange etc... And if possible, even among Republic and Empire.

If you for example have +126 or something on Hutts, you could work for hutts. But if you have -256 on hutts, their guards will open fire on you on sight. Just a thought. Actions on quests could give the points in similar manner than light/dark side points now.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Kayin

[Harlequintwo]

They couldn't fit in more than four classes. They'd just end up repeating the mechanics and abilities of other classes, and all those phases everywhere. Those phases! *rocks back and forth* Besides, 2 Force Users and 2 Non-Force Users is balanced in terms of lore as well (and no, another Force User would just be over doing it).

 

So basically, would you rather have no Bounty Hunter or Smuggler and instead have Imp Trooper and SIS? Maybe you would, but the majority (espcially the target audience) would want to play as Han or Boba. It's marketing and it works.

[Lunafox]

I'd love it, if I could be an Imperial smuggler...I'd also love to be an Imperial Guard.

[zuile]

This is an idea where you'd HAVE to be like the Republic trooper, SWG fans may like their ordinary grunt idea but that's not going to fly for anyone else and imo SWG type players severely overestimate the number of people like them. But it could work if you start as an Imperial Officer and work your way up through the chapters to say Major or bit higher, you'd just be doing special commando missions the whole time, trouble is it'd probably require an entirely new starting planet as Korriban and Hutta just don't fit.

 

I'd deffo play an Imp Trooper though if we could.

Edited May 8, 2012 by zuile