dotNex Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There are just too many folks I would like to quote for exemplifying why I do not like addons and the mentality they bring. Ad Hominem: yyyy: I dont like the mentality that comes with addons. xxxxx : Of course you'd say that. You're bad. This is also a false dichotomy: "Only bad players dislike addons." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ They are tools and they have their purposes. I don't think the benefit of these tools outweights the negative or abrasive mentality that comes with these tools or the lack thereof. Combat logs, modifiable UI(change positions and sizes of UI elements), and 'target of target' are the only tools that I would be happy to see. ABSOLUTELY NO THIRD PARTY software ! Add procs to the flytext and i would be happy with that. Oh and proper debuff icons on the raid frames (so healers can actually decurse people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylverfall Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 With the amount of bugs and broken content currently available, I am honestly scared to see what will happen if/when they do allow addons and UI adjustments. On second thought, maybe if they did allow them, then the player base could fix their game for them.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Pretty much this is the problem. It's not right or wrong to enjoy the game one way or the other. melee sage, range vanguard, gunslinger NEVER going to cover cause it's not enjoyable there are no right or wrong way to play the game huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furyofwar Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Despite anything you say using a add on is a crutch. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I quit WoW a long time ago, but is Rag actually harder than pre-nerf M'uru? I doubt it, but if so maybe I shouldn't have quit. it's difficult to say, you will have to trust paragon on this paragon has the world first of heroic rag, and said it was the hardest boss they ever face. I am sure they compare to LK but not sure they were around for M'uru PS: yes, i have killed heroic rag 25 during the 4.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'd say he was, but I missed Sunwell so I couldn't give a definitive answer. Though, they've now kicked his teeth out with nerfs. Average wipes to kill H Rag were 500-600 prenerf. Take the number of people that have tried to kill Heroic Rag even one time. Divide that number by the number of accounts that have level 85 characters. Examine that number. That is one of the driving factors as to why Bioware is trying to approach the MMO genre from a different angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furyofwar Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Addons are a crutch always have been and always will be. Future games are moving away from them. They will not be allowed in Diablo 3 either or other future games. Get used to it. Edited January 4, 2012 by Furyofwar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylverfall Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 it's difficult to say, you will have to trust paragon on this paragon has the world first of heroic rag, and said it was the hardest boss they ever face. I am sure they compare to LK but not sure they were around for M'uru PS: yes, i have killed heroic rag 25 during the 4.2 Pre-nerf Muru was still the hardest boss they created IMO. The only thing that really made H Rag "Difficult" was depending on people to not stand in stuff. I killed H-Rag during 4.2 and it really wasn't a hard fight to understand. But if you get someone who lives in a tree outside of some random city in Singapore who has a latency that blows, the fight can get more difficult. Addon's aren't a crutch, they are a tool to allow someone to further improve their performance in the area of their choice. That is it. They are invaluable to serious raiders and to those who choose to be a more casual, solo minded, story driven player, they can be a pain. Either way, they need to be here for the game to compete with WoW in the end game category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeres- Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I just want something to tell me when my CDs are up instead of looking for the correct icon on the taskbar - which I don't look at often because I keybind almost everything. Want to throw that in the flytext that's fine. As it is now I look for which abilities are off CD which is time better spent looking for casts to interrupt or trying to avoid fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy min/maxing their characters. Also, you use the term "casual" instead of "bad". Shame on you. You have anger issues. People have talked to you in your personal life about this before, and you've ignored them. Don't ignore them, they're only trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwielder Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Despite anything you say using a add on is a crutch. Plain and simple. True. Also...everyone disregards that addons actually do give you an edge over players that don't use them. To claim that it doesn't give an edge is absolutely ridiculous. The information alone is what gives users an edge over non-users. Information == Power. Mouse over Healing? Seriously people can't heal without that? lol. This game can be made better with advice about improvements to the game...not by opening it up to the community to make it easier and potentially hackable. Let them have time to improve it based on feedback...game is a few weeks old... All the comparisons to WOW and what not...who cares about how difficult Heroic Rag was? I personally think they've taken enough from WOW and need to branch out on their own more. Forget WOW and do something different please. The great foundation that WOW created is here in this game but should not rule the game. The game should change based on its own path and not the path that WOW has been on or else you'll end up with the same game with the same grinds but with lightsabers... my 2 cents to an already super long thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickyricky Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I like how people who are calling others bads need to have flashing neon letters that fill half their screen in order to know when to interrupt or move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 again, there are addon and addon i'm totally ok for "informative addon", that present information available in a more visible/elegant way- ui customization (SUF, xperl, bartender, autioneer)- oparation frame (grid)- meters (recount)- your own timer (your CD, your buff prot, your HOT/DOT timer on target) i am not ok with addon that oversimplify fight- the arrow where you need to move in DBM- the infamous AVR/AVRE- the vanilla version of decursive (you basically set a list of priority personne in you raid and spam one button without targetting anyone to decurse the whole raid) i am still iffy about some like, maybe, maybe not- boss timer (no really necessary in theory, in practice, some heroic fight are near impossible without in wow)- threat meter- aura addon (power aura) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggathor Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I used to be a hardcore player in WoW until I took it slowly like i do with this game, and it's so much more enjoyable... it doesn't feel like a grind or a chore. I pity those who rushed to 50 and missed the best thing about this game. If you really need to feel like you're achieving something, do that IRL, and come to this game to have fun. You'll thank me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaelthun Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I found myself using fewer and fewer addons as time went on. I went from using a full set of DPS addons to using just DBM with just sounds on and bag/auction addons. Didn't need more towards the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourniquett Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) As long as the game doesn't become balanced around these crutches I have no problem with people leaning on them on their own time. Well, that is the issue. THe problem is they get abused, and taken to the extreme. What could be a good tool to fine tune your play, becomes an obsession with alot of players.. Rather than use it for the purpose its intended, some just care about nothing than being #1 on the meter. Its the whole slippery slope thing. I do think BW should introduce more options with the UI, but changes should be done in house, not left to 3rd party. In other words, BW should regulat the changes, and just let the floodgates open. But what I really dont want to see in /1 is: "LF 6K DPS,+ 1300 Gearscore, minimum".. type crap. And that is what it will come down to. While add ons can serve a purpose, they also bring alot of headaches. Edited January 4, 2012 by Tourniquett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendaugy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Where's your heroic -anything- kill? WoWs heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world. . LOL Carefull folks dont feed the troll they bite... Wow Heroic Endgame is quite simple... avoid fire, jump here.. dont jump here... IF You required addons for Heroic end-game wow... you should re-evaluate life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephismo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It's a win-win situation: they save money by not fixing imbalances, and the n00bs in the game feel like they're contributing in boss fights (even though they are not). They are contributing. But not in the way they think. They are making it harder. All hardcore players like difficult encounters, so yeah win win;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You do know that blizzard implemented giant "THE BOSS IS DOING X" messages into the default UI right? You don't NEED mods to raid. They are nice to have though. Blizzard implemented those messages after the addon (Deadly Boss Mods) became required in virtually every guild that raided. They were cryptic enemy chat/yell messages before that were missed by the same people chatting it up in /general or /raid while they were supposed to be raiding. From personal experience, I think there was more skill required when someone in the raid had to use a timer on their desk to call out boss abilities over vent or chat. Seems easier now that a mod just watches the combat log and relays the message in big yellow letters at the top of the screen. Ya'll keep preaching for addons to dumb down the game though - all in the name of thinking it filters out "the bads". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoggs Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 LOL Carefull folks dont feed the troll they bite... Wow Heroic Endgame is quite simple... avoid fire, jump here.. dont jump here... IF You required addons for Heroic end-game wow... you should re-evaluate life.... Got an armory link to your character there bub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sythrasz Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Ya'll keep preaching for addons to dumb down the game though - all in the name of thinking it filters out "the bads". If [Game Developer] needs to add more information on the screen in order to be able to design interesting encounters, yet keep them within the skill of the majority of the playerbase, then I welcome it. Those messages didn't dumb down the game, it allowed blizzard to design more complex encounters without shutting out the majority of players. If blizzard kept doing tank n spank encounters after they added the messages, then it'd be dumbed down. Relative increase in information accompanied by a relative increase in amount of information needed is a good thing. Edited January 4, 2012 by Sythrasz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helagoth Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) First, addon's are not an "all or nothing" thing. Just putting in damage meters, mouseover macros and UI customization does not mean you get DBM or anything that does the game for you. Second, the primary purpose of damage meters isn't to make people feel bad, or call out people being bad, it's to gauge our own performance. Yes, some people do abuse them, just like everything. That doesn't make damage meters or combat logs bad, it makes elitist *****s bad. Last, bosses with enrage timers and no way of telling how much DPS someone is doing is a terrible, terrible design. When we wipe to an enrage timer, and just have to say "oh well, lets try again", without any idea of what to actually do better, it's bad. Sometimes it really does come down to little Timmy needs to get booted from the raid because he just can't cut it. I haven't started raiding in SWTOR yet, but when I do, if we wipe repeatedly without being able to identify what the problems are, it's gonna lead to a lot of frustration. Edited January 4, 2012 by Helagoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You really think that troll has an armory link?! lmfao. Anybody that says you dont need mods for heroic WoW raiding is someone who hasnt actually done any heroic raiding. Fail troll is fail troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargor- Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Where's your heroic -anything- kill? WoWs heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world. SWTOR is pathetic in comparison. However, in terms of questing and solo play, SWTOR is much more challenging and I feel you really learn how to play your class to it's SOLO potential through doing the difficult elite story quests. Also, no addons/customizing? Watch this game go the way of AoC in a few months. If you are truly a casual player, THEN WHY DO YOU CARE IF HARDCORE GAMERS USE ADDONS. How does someone elses customization ruin YOUR play? If you say because they harass you for being bad by linking meters, I have bad news for you. You are actually bad, and someone pointed it out to you after carrying you through that content. Amen The Ammich antiaddons crowd never even got past entry raiding for the simple reason that they couldn't keep up or they were just plain bad and didn't care to improve. ADDons exist to make your role BETTER at what it does, what these people want is for everybody to be just as bad as them so they don't get discriminated against. Edited January 4, 2012 by Averran inappropriate content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Mouse over Healing? Seriously people can't heal without that? lol. This is really the only thing I want Bioware to implement. I can heal without it but it is not fun for me to heal without mouse over healing. The currently implemented focus target system is okay for duo'ing but when in a group where more than the tank takes damage, it is not fun to have to manually target each person, then click a heal. Why click on two things when one click would suffice just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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