"Addons are stupid and WoW is easy."

[DarthHendo]

Let me tell you a little story of something that happened on 2nd of January 2012 in one of our 4-man-groups:

 

We entered some 4-player-heroes-area and fought our way through the republican enemies. As it must be

 

One of our damage dealers had the problem, that he got too much aggro every time he fought. After some time he complained that he needs some add on - like in WOW - that shows him the actual aggro-level. He thinks it is important to know the aggro-level, because he then can stop fighting and wait to loose his aggro.

 

...

 

I say: NO! It's fun to play without addon. It's fun to use your own skills. The player's skills. This is what divides the "skilled" players from the "poorly" skilled players.

 

...

 

I must admit that I know WoW from the early days on. I've played the early beta, beta and the game itself about 3 years. And I quit playing when the addons became mandatory for each raid. It was NO fun any more always looking on the aggro-bars and numbers and timing your actions only because this number raise or drop.

 

---

 

I say: NO! to such addons. Lets have addons for the GUI. Let's have it for customizing some other things - but please do not allow anyone to use addons to get advantages while playing.

 

Say no all you want, they're still coming.

[RevengeLobster]

Using Mods in MMOs and then calling others baddies for not using them is like using an aimbot in a FPS and calling someone bad for not getting a headshot with every bullet fired. It has nothing to do with a player min/maxing or player wanting to perform better, but has everything to do with a player using fabricated skill to overcome challenge and then labeling it a level of elitism. You do not need to be a good player to succeed with mods. You do have to be a good player to succeed without mods. It is really not hard to judge how well you are doing your role (whether it be damage, tanking, or healing)and then adjusting your performance with the tools already implemented in the game. The only baddies around are those reliant on third party add-ons to be efficient at succeeding in the game.

[Varthag]

If there's ever room for addons in this game, please have them strictly controlled and restricted to basic stuff like UI customization and/or recounts. As far as PVE goes, I don't really care about how other people play their game. They can just fill their screen with numbers for all I care.

 

On the other hand, coming from WoW, I'd hate it if PVP got to the state it is there because of the tons of addons everybody use which are literally screening every button I press, showing and screaming in my opponent's ear every cooldown on my side and so on. That really sucked all the fun out of it and made me give up that aspect of the game, because I didn't want to adapt.

 

One more thing: we REALLY need our combat log!

[RevengeLobster]

If there's ever room for addons in this game, please have them strictly controlled and restricted to basic stuff like UI customization and/or recounts. As far as PVE goes, I don't really care about how other people play their game. They can just fill their screen with numbers for all I care.

 

On the other hand, coming from WoW, I'd hate it if PVP got to the state it is there because of the tons of addons everybody use which are literally screening every button I press, showing and screaming in my opponent's ear every cooldown on my side and so on. That really sucked all the fun out of it and made me give up that aspect of the game, because I didn't want to adapt.

 

One more thing: we REALLY need our combat log!

 

The only problem with that is that when you allow third party add-ons into a game they begin to dictate the game. You have to care how other people play the game because in the end, that directly effects the way you play the game.

 

Customizations to UI and things like having cooldowns closer to your character so you can actually see the game are fine, but performance enhancers which are unintended for the game defeat the purpose of difficulty implemented and the challenge of the game. It is when things like this are allowed that you get instances (not the dungeons) where new content is actually balanced off of what mods the community is using and not the inherent skills of the players. Thus it becomes the new dictation and requirement for the way you play.

[Nexxa]

As long as the game doesn't become balanced around these crutches I have no problem with people leaning on them on their own time.

[Dothar]

Using Mods in MMOs and then calling others baddies for not using them is like using an aimbot in a FPS and calling someone bad for not getting a headshot with every bullet fired. It has nothing to do with a player min/maxing or player wanting to perform better, but has everything to do with a player using fabricated skill to overcome challenge and then labeling it a level of elitism. You do not need to be a good player to succeed with mods. You do have to be a good player to succeed without mods. It is really not hard to judge how well you are doing your role (whether it be damage, tanking, or healing)and then adjusting your performance with the tools already implemented in the game. The only baddies around are those reliant on third party add-ons to be efficient at succeeding in the game.

 

Well said... I couldn't agree more. I like how these "bad" players don't use mods but some how they manage to take things down with other like minds... hmm seems like a differences in skill and knowledge to me. Seems like the ones that require the third party software to function at a grand scale just can't learn or bother to learn their character correctly.

[kinkaito]

Erm, Bioware already released information before the last beta stress test, that they have plans to allow people to make addons ect, and customize the game a bit more.

 

but they wanted the game to be released and stable before they made it happen.

 

My view:

i don't mind addons, i use them alot, as long as the "Dps meters" only show your dps, and not anything in your party, i have no problem with them either.

you want to improve your dps? sure. go for it, you want to min max your own character? go ahead. but i think the worst thing about addons can be when people can look at anyone else in the group and start going "Zomg your DPS is so low QQ why you no DPS"? without thinking about why the other character isn't pure dpsing.

 

They could be CCing, they could be off-tanking, they should be helping out the healer,

then people only start to think about numbers, in fear of being raged at due to not having the top numbers for whatever reason.

 

note: im a healer, so i would't ever be top dps anyway. but i hated in WoW how other people rage about others Dps. as long as we're doing the dungeon/flashpoint fine, i don't care what others dps is.

 

So yeah, let people see there own dps, but don't let them see there co-team mates dps.

 

Other then that. let the addons free

[Safgril]

not all mods are bad... but once you start modding....there is no stopping the cheating...

 

the mods will come out to exploit the game... mods like nerfed buttons... speed hacks... etc.

 

once you start allowing you get cheaters using anything and everything to get the edge over honest players.

 

and of course you will get the cheaters saying that the honest players are just bad.... same story different day...

[Progen]

WoWs heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world.

 

I burst out laughing in your face.

 

Someone who got World #9 Illidan + light of dawn + hallion 25hm (all when it was current) says it really, really isnt.

 

Go play Super Meat Boy or VVVVVVV, they're hard. Wow isn't. It's retardedly easy.

[Rigwit]

Add-ons are fine, as long as people don't force them on you in order to join groups/raids, unless those people pay for your subscription ..

 

As for WoW being easy.. The early raids in WoW weren't hard, and add-ons such as raid assist made the raids near trivial. That ruined my WoW experience to such an extent that I quit playing. I have friends who continued playing and raiding a lot, and they told me things had gotten a lot more difficult and dynamic. It also helped that raid assist got nerfed so it didn't automate most tasks, but by then I couldn't be bothered to pick up the game again.

 

As for meters, as long as the instance is successful, I really don't care about who did what. There are also plenty reasons why someone would do less dps than someone else.. For example, someone might be running around killing adds rather than concentrate on the main boss. Due to the running, they might loose a lot of dps. People keeping off-tanks alive might have much lower healing done than whoever's spamming the main tank, etc.

[alextrebek]

Moved post. Edited January 4, 2012 by alextrebek

[kwispel]

My view:

i don't mind addons, i use them alot, as long as the "Dps meters" only show your dps, and not anything in your party, i have no problem with them either.

you want to improve your dps? sure. go for it, you want to min max your own character? go ahead. but i think the worst thing about addons can be when people can look at anyone else in the group and start going "Zomg your DPS is so low QQ why you no DPS"? without thinking about why the other character isn't pure dpsing.

So yeah, let people see there own dps, but don't let them see there co-team mates dps.

Other then that. let the addons free

 

I couldn't more agree with you, i see this happens many time in wow

[Baddieologist]

Where's your heroic -anything- kill?

 

WoWs heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world. SWTOR is pathetic in comparison. However, in terms of questing and solo play, SWTOR is much more challenging and I feel you really learn how to play your class to it's SOLO potential through doing the difficult elite story quests.

 

Also, no addons/customizing? Watch this game go the way of AoC in a few months. If you are truly a casual player, THEN WHY DO YOU CARE IF HARDCORE GAMERS USE ADDONS. How does someone elses customization ruin YOUR play?

 

If you say because they harass you for being bad by linking meters, I have bad news for you. You are actually bad, and someone pointed it out to you after carrying you through that content.

 

troll post is trolling

[darthteligant]

All sub par player bs aside. As a healer it would be nice to have a different set up or at least being able to drag my raid bars around so i'm not looking away from fights constantly that and mouse over macro's :*

[alextrebek]

Actually, you can do that, at least in PvP...

[Gformutorila]

I was a casual WoW player the hardest I ever did was ToC heroic 10man before it was nerfed. But I really liked some addons. I didn't have many but enough. I played a Shaman healer and I really needed to see who had what debuff so I could despell it if I could also this addon would show me if other healers were already healing my target and some other stuff. Without this it would not be possible to raid.

 

Now I plan on having a IA operative healer as alt and I really like to see who has hots and dots and who is taking the most damage. For now my main is a IA sniper and I would like to see what the target of the MT (main tank) is and if I am in danger of pulling agro.

 

Now if BW will give me this info that I can customize in a way that I like then there is no need for mods but I doubt BW give players a 100% customable game interface.

[herbigharo]

I have addons in WoW yet rarely use them. I come to believe addons are more detrimental to promoting an enjoyable game environment. After playing other MMOs, it is concluded that WoW actually has the highest failure rate on end game content of all. This could be due to addons actually causing a bleeding of potential talent thus making pugging more difficult. Lately, DPS spots in WoW is becoming harder to fill on trade chat. Maybe they think they will get kicked due to low DPS reads and not bother to answer the request. Who knows....

[Grim-]

Please do not put a deadlybossmods or gearscore in this game.

 

Gearscore is already there, it's called item rating...

[brokeit]

Addons don't make the player better...they make the game easier and force you to focus on a bunch of status boxes instead of the world around you (that artists and developers put their soul into creating for you!). Addons take the skill away form the game. People complain that things aren't challenging enough but when you bring a mechanical reaper (google it) to a knife fight you're not really being challenged.

 

Min/maxing can be done in stats because if you look at how the play mechanics are set up...your performance wont be by perfecting a rotation, it will be in resource management and keeping up buffs/debuffs. If that is done correctly, damage/performance will fall into place.

 

I've played many MMOs that didn't allow addons and it was plenty easy to judge my and other group member performances. If you really want to play a game where the only thing that matters is a bunch of boxes giving number readouts and telling you status effects or whatever, go play an old MUD and leave the real gamers to this game. If you want to enjoy a game for what it is, enjoy the visuals, get immersed in the story, and be a bigger part of your character then pull out your light saber or blaster and have fun.

 

 

On the topic of customizations, those I fully support. Any visual or layout change should be allowed just to make people more comfortable. Everyone still has the same functionality but being able to move quickslots, change font type, change party/op frame layout, etc will make the game more enjoyable for players.

[Obtena]

Add-on's tend to make a academic exercise of games. I won't debate if it's likeable or not but it seems to me that approaching these kinds of games from a purely numbers perspective takes away from the responsiveness of the player. If I have a meter that tells me when to hit my threat and who to hit it on, you are letting some other tool take away that aspect of gameplay from you. I guess the tradeoff is that you can concentrate on executing your perfectly timed DPS combos. In the end, the measure is if raids are successful.

 

IMO, good players don't need add-ons and the evidence is that people complete the game content without them successfully. Good players know what to look for and can respond accordingly without some meter telling them what to do next.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Obtena

[Rigwit]

The only way to stop the discussions would be if the servers were split into 1 set that allowed add-ons and another set that didn't allow add-ons. That's really the only fair way of doing things, because, like others already said, putting in add-ons will inevitably change game balance and make it impossible for those choosing not to use add-ons to enjoy add-on balanced content.

 

I can already imagine the additional whining split servers would cause though ...

[SgtDukes]

There are just too many folks I would like to quote for exemplifying why I do not like addons and the mentality they bring.

 

 

Ad Hominem: yyyy: I dont like the mentality that comes with addons.

xxxxx : Of course you'd say that. You're bad.

 

This is also a false dichotomy: "Only bad players dislike addons."

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

 

 

They are tools and they have their purposes. I don't think the benefit of these tools outweights

the negative or abrasive mentality that comes with these tools or the lack thereof.

 

Combat logs, modifiable UI(change positions and sizes of UI elements), and 'target of target' are the only tools that I would be happy to see.

 

ABSOLUTELY NO THIRD PARTY software !

Edited January 4, 2012 by SgtDukes

[Larity]

Heres a simple solution for those that want addons/customization

 

Go play the other game.

[Varlak]

With addons in place, you start paying attention to the numbers and your performance instead of just playing and enjoying the game. They drain the fun out of a form of entertainment. That is why casual players don't enjoy them.

 

I duno for you but personaly I don't even need to look at the parser while playing once I,ve got a good rotation for the encounter. Exept when I suspect some dude to be watching T.V. instead of playing so I can look at his parse and have a proof of his behavior.

 

If EA don,t want add-on well they should give us an in-game Parser and more option to edit our UI because realy SWTOR UI is bad and I hate it.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Varlak

[Puremallace]

Where's your heroic -anything- kill?

 

WoWs heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world. SWTOR is pathetic in comparison. However, in terms of questing and solo play, SWTOR is much more challenging and I feel you really learn how to play your class to it's SOLO potential through doing the difficult elite story quests.

 

 

Balancing end game around add ons has always been Blizzards Achilles heal. People tend to forget this, but the fights are customized around the idea you have certain things installed.

 

As long as they do not go free for all with the api access it will be alright. Just allow the playerbase to design custom UI and puts devs to work on stuff that actually matters.