What Determines SWTOR's Failure?

[Nemmar]

Warhammer Online also sold around a million copies within a week, that cost less to make than The Old Republic. Look how that turned out.

 

It always surprises me how bitter haters are.

 

Comparing a game like Warhammer to a game like SWTOR, in nothing alike and with quality levels completely different, and adding to that claims that the game sold half of what it did. It actually sold 2million + a this point (check vgchartz).

 

This game is far from a failure.

[Blotter]

"What Determines SWTOR's Failure? "

 

Idiosyncratic personal opinions that differ between one person and the next.

 

Can we just move the heck on? The QQ whining crybaby pantwetter festival on these forums is truly a testament to evolutionary regression.

[DarthSublimitas]

The real question is, "what doesn't?"

[Kamiosoup]

The fact that it isn't as good as WoW.

 

You can't make a game to compete with another game and be inferior to it in every possible way.

[DarthWomprat]

The real question is, "what doesn't?"

 

I don't think they can change the lack of immersion piece of what I personally think is wrong with the game. Everything just seems so bland. Many other things can be fixed though. High end raiding progression, gear changes (both cosmetic and stats wise), pvp fixes. All of these can help retain subscribers.

[ManOSteal]

The fact that it isn't as good as WoW.

 

You can't make a game to compete with another game and be inferior to it in every possible way.

 

wow has lost something around 2,000,000 subs last I heard.

[Katharis]

It ISN'T fun for me, not AIN'T.

 

Indeed, young fellow! Utilizing the medium of hyperspace to facilitate the swift traversal of the galaxy far exceeds the pastoral simplicity inherent in that agrarian endeavor most commonly referred to as the 'dusting of crops'.

[Nemmar]

The fact that it isn't as good as WoW.

 

You can't make a game to compete with another game and be inferior to it in every possible way.

 

The same can be said about coca-cola and pepsi... yet here they are. I guess some people have different tastes *shock*.

[Toonasty]

It always surprises me how bitter haters are.

 

Comparing a game like Warhammer to a game like SWTOR, in nothing alike and with quality levels completely different, and adding to that claims that the game sold half of what it did. It actually sold 2million + a this point (check vgchartz).

 

This game is far from a failure.

 

Tor is not that good. You speak about quality too? Terribad combat, buggy end game, disgusting pvp and wold pvp, broken loot system, overly linear and instanced zones, and shoddy CS, now how is this game sooo much better than WH?

[BobTheTeepo]

Most people will define failing as losing 70% of your initial launch population 3-6 months down the road.

 

Yes, RIFT failed. As did AoC/WAR/AION-NA.

 

It's not hard to keep a game running. Just look at the hundreds of rinky-dink F2P Korean MMORPG's out there that have been going for years.

 

So, by your standards, pretty much every game except WoW and Asia Aion was a failure? I tend to judge things on an average. If they're MORE successful than the average MMO, then they're successful. If they have LESS player retention in the long run, they're a failure. And percentages really mean nothing.

 

If game X launches with 100 people, and 100% stay on and it in fact grows by 10%, then it is a success... Yet it's also a huge failure. So SW:ToR has over 2m confirmed sales, yet if it loses 70% (bringing it down to 600kish) after 3-6 months, and starts to grow, it's still a failure? I'm sorry, that just doesn't make sense to me -- but I see where you're coming from and I'll respect your opinion on the matter.

[Kinrain]

There are highly detailed models available to determine if a game (or business venture) has failed and i'm sure both BW and EA use them to work out..oh I don't know...if they're making any money?

 

But the only thing I care about is i'm having a great time playing this game, my friends are having a great time playing this game and all the people I meet in the game are...wait for it....having a great time playing...you guessed it...this game!

 

Is SWTOR a failed venture? No, not to me, not to my firends or to the hundreds of people i've personally played with. Do I think i'm the only person that feels this way? Nope, i'm pretty sure that even though i'm a special little snowflake, unique in every way, there are probably a large number of people who would say the same thing.

 

But they're all in the game enjoying themselves, not wasting thier time feeding the trolls on this forum because they're stuck at work.

[daays]

So, by your standards, pretty much every game except WoW and Asia Aion was a failure? I tend to judge things on an average. If they're MORE successful than the average MMO, then they're successful. If they have LESS player retention in the long run, they're a failure. And percentages really mean nothing.

 

If game X launches with 100 people, and 100% stay on and it in fact grows by 10%, then it is a success... Yet it's also a huge failure. So SW:ToR has over 2m confirmed sales, yet if it loses 70% (bringing it down to 600kish) after 3-6 months, and starts to grow, it's still a failure? I'm sorry, that just doesn't make sense to me -- but I see where you're coming from and I'll respect your opinion on the matter.

 

You're assuming it starts to grow again.

 

What game has grown their subs after the exodus of players?

 

Has AoC grown?

WAR?

Aion-NA?

 

This game will go from the 2mil to 600k in 3 months. And it will continue to decline.

 

The gaming community is fickle. They give you one shot and rarely give a second chance.

Edited January 27, 2012 by daays

[LogicalPremise]

I keep seeing all these threads in this forum and the running theme is that SWTOR is going to fail is failing has already failed. The time lines for these failure projections range from 2 weeks to 6 months to a year, but what determines if SWTOR is a failure?

 

The more important question is why should anyone care?

 

God, people still play Warhammer, and that failed so hard it left marks on the pavement. If a game can survive defrauding it's customers out of thousands of dollars and saying sorry by giving you a digital BIRD, anything can survive.

[BobTheTeepo]

Tor is not that good. You speak about quality too? Terribad combat, buggy end game, disgusting pvp and wold pvp, broken loot system, overly linear and instanced zones, and shoddy CS, now how is this game sooo much better than WH?

 

It's better because you don't decide what is good or not, please look up "subjective".

 

It's fully voiced, has an amazing story, has 8 different amazing stories, beautifully designed worlds, tons of back story, one of the best universes (referring to Star Wars) in the history of fiction, great dialogue, tons of endgame (quality of endgame is up for question, but it's undeniable that there is tons of it), the most replayability of any MMO I've encountered, companions add a new layer of depth, crafting while doing whatever you want to do is epic, multiplayer dialogue, I enjoy the PvP though it needs some fixing, I like linearity etc.

 

Those are the reasons that I enjoy the game, and the reasons I find it superior to WoW. You don't even have to agree with them, you don't have to like those reasons, but your opinion on my opinion is objectively meaningless. Because ultimately, I DECIDE what is better for me between WoW and TOR, not you.

 

Nobody is saying that the game in it's current shape is going to beat WoW or whatever.

[Jett-Rinn]

You're assuming it starts to grow again.

 

What game has grown their subs after the exodus of players?

 

Has AoC grown?

WAR?

Aion-NA?

 

This game will go from the 2mil to 600k in 3 months. And it will continue to decline.

 

The gaming community is fickle. They give you one shot and rarely give a second chance.

 

 

 

Millions of people playing (quote from James Ohlen)

 

Fastest Growing MMO EVER

 

 

ahem.....

[DarthWomprat]

beautifully designed worlds.

 

In my opinion, they are wonderfully designed if I were going to hang it on a wall. It's the content within the world, in terms of gameplay, that simply isn't good.

 

Don't get me wrong, SWTOR isn't a bad game, it's a good game. It just isn't great.

[Toonasty]

It's better because you don't decide what is good or not, please look up "subjective".

 

It's fully voiced, has an amazing story, has 8 different amazing stories, beautifully designed worlds, tons of back story, one of the best universes (referring to Star Wars) in the history of fiction, great dialogue, tons of endgame (quality of endgame is up for question, but it's undeniable that there is tons of it), the most replayability of any MMO I've encountered, companions add a new layer of depth, crafting while doing whatever you want to do is epic, multiplayer dialogue, I enjoy the PvP though it needs some fixing, I like linearity etc.

 

Those are the reasons that I enjoy the game, and the reasons I find it superior to WoW. You don't even have to agree with them, you don't have to like those reasons, but your opinion on my opinion is objectively meaningless. Because ultimately, I DECIDE what is better for me between WoW and TOR, not you.

 

Nobody is saying that the game in it's current shape is going to beat WoW or whatever.

 

Are you serious lol. 8 different amazing stories? LOL Please tell me what you smoking, maybe I could handle this boring game if I has some. Companions are glorified pets that add nothing to the game but a dependency on them.

[Geglad]

You're assuming it starts to grow again.

 

What game has grown their subs after the exodus of players?

 

Has AoC grown?

WAR?

Aion-NA?

 

This game will go from the 2mil to 600k in 3 months. And it will continue to decline.

 

The gaming community is fickle. They give you one shot and rarely give a second chance.

 

Real facts - come 21 Dec you will all see the facts in evidence. You tell em buddy!

 

But I have a true fact, I think the sub count will be ZERO eventually. Yup - you heard it here first!

 

Fact: Mayan calendar says end of some cycle dealio thing on 21 Dec.

Fact: We dont know why they ended their calendar specifically on that date but speculate that it has something to do with a rare alignment of celestial bodies. (Did the copy paste thing work?)

Real Fact: I know its because the world is ending.

True Fact: Subs will be ZERO for SW:ToR when the world ends 21 Dec.

 

 

You will see.

 

 

 

 

-Lad

[BobTheTeepo]

You're assuming it starts to grow again.

 

What game has grown their subs after the exodus of players?

 

Has AoC grown?

WAR?

Aion-NA?

 

This game will go from the 2mil to 600k in 3 months. And it will continue to decline.

 

The gaming community is fickle. They give you one shot and rarely give a second chance.

 

STO and LOTRO both have (STO did while it was staying P2P).

 

You're making predictions that have many assumptions.

 

1. We have no info to suggest that this game will go to below 600k in 3 months.

2. We have no info to suggest that this game will continue to fall

3. We have good info that this game's population is stabilizing to an extent.

 

http://www.mmo-junkies.net/index.php?app=statistics

 

Use the yearly graph, and you'll find that server stress has been stabilizing quite a bit. We experienced a sharp dive at first, but if you look at it, we're experiencing a sort of stabilization that Rift, Aion, AoC, and Warhammer never experienced. Stress is actually INCREASING at this very moment, it could drop again but at this very moment more people are playing daily.

 

The gaming community in actuality, tends to -- after they've quit -- check back in on the game (people feel bad about wasting initial invest, people beat the current content and get bored etc.). They ask friends who still play, they look around the forums and that sort of thing. So if TOR can get it's stuff together in about 6 months, a lot of the original subs that were lost will return.

[Toonasty]

Not sure if this will happen. I think Tor will have a hard time coming back with so many other games releasing.

[BobTheTeepo]

Are you serious lol. 8 different amazing stories? LOL Please tell me what you smoking, maybe I could handle this boring game if I has some. Companions are glorified pets that add nothing to the game but a dependency on them.

 

I'm going to ask you again, as you seem to not understand. Will you please look up what "subjective" means, and realize that it applies to this case? You can disagree, but that does not make you right or wrong, that just means that YOU don't find it enjoyable, whereas I do, so we're both right. I've personally experienced 2 of the stories to their conclusion, and I'm well on my way to the 3rd, and they're better than what MMO has ever offered. Not to mention, they're on par with singleplayer games.

[Toonasty]

I'm going to ask you again, as you seem to not understand. Will you please look up what "subjective" means, and realize that it applies to this case? You can disagree, but that does not make you right or wrong, that just means that YOU don't find it enjoyable, whereas I do, so we're both right. I've personally experienced 2 of the stories to their conclusion, and I'm well on my way to the 3rd, and they're better than what MMO has ever offered. Not to mention, they're on par with singleplayer games.

 

Your right.

[Mandrath]

It always surprises me how bitter haters are.

 

Comparing a game like Warhammer to a game like SWTOR, in nothing alike and with quality levels completely different, and adding to that claims that the game sold half of what it did. It actually sold 2million + a this point (check vgchartz).

 

This game is far from a failure.

 

You know, I decided to check the numbers and here's what I've found and the conclusion I can draw from what I found.

 

1) Hot new game releases during holiday season...Result: sales are high

2) Everyone who got the game tried it, initial subs were high

3) Holiday season ended, people went back to work/school/life and daily activity plummets (as expected)

4) People who don't know any better or who don't have other demands on their time blame the drop on people unsubscribing

5) Post holiday sales for 2012 so far are 186,000+/-

6) The game has most likely dropped 300,000-500,000 subs from launch and that's normal

7) With the added 186,000 who bought after the holiday season was over and the game reviews were out, net losses were 120,000-320,000+/-

 

While my number of dropped subs is a guess, it's just as viable as anyone else's since only EA/BW know for sure. This game is doing better than average and it is a better than average game.

 

SW:TOR will be doing great in 2 years.

[Geglad]

STO and LOTRO both have (STO did while it was staying P2P).

 

You're making predictions that have many assumptions.

 

1. We have no info to suggest that this game will go to below 600k in 3 months.

2. We have no info to suggest that this game will continue to fall

3. We have good info that this game's population is stabilizing to an extent.

 

http://www.mmo-junkies.net/index.php?app=statistics

 

Use the yearly graph, and you'll find that server stress has been stabilizing quite a bit. We experienced a sharp dive at first, but if you look at it, we're experiencing a sort of stabilization that Rift, Aion, AoC, and Warhammer never experienced. Stress is actually INCREASING at this very moment, it could drop again but at this very moment more people are playing daily.

 

The gaming community in actuality, tends to -- after they've quit -- check back in on the game (people feel bad about wasting initial invest, people beat the current content and get bored etc.). They ask friends who still play, they look around the forums and that sort of thing. So if TOR can get it's stuff together in about 6 months, a lot of the original subs that were lost will return.

 

 

 

LIES! I dont give two pence about all of your facts, your fancy graphs with all of that ...eh evidence and stuff!

 

I mean really guy, who do you think you are coming in here and trying to post just facts and stuff?

 

Do you have any REAL facts? No.

How about TRUE facts? No.

 

Yeah, thats what I thought...

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

-Lad

[Malkosha]

What Determines SWTOR's Failure?

 

If you would have said " What Determines SWTOR's Success"? It would have sounded less troll like.

 

As far as matching WoW subs go, I doubt it. Most of the subs for WoW are in China. Blizz even had to alter the game in order for it to be played there. That's how anal the Chinese government is.

 

With the romance and obvious one night stands through this game ... not to mention the DS choice implications, I doubt it will be allowed much success over there.