Toonasty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 See in bold/italic/underline as to why there are so many saying the game fails. It is personal opinion that some posts like to claim is fact. Truth is, it may have failed for them personally, but that does not mean the game itself is a failure. Try convincing them of that, though. Good luck. It has failed though(fact) and nothing they do will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xguild Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 WoW has been the only MMORPG to grow past 6 months. Every single MMORPG since WoW has done this: -Large influx of new players for that new car smell -3 months in 50% of the launch population has left -6 months to a year 70%+ of the launch population has left -server mergers -no growing player base With this model is seems the larger launch population you have more subs you will have in the long run. This is the model all companies are using. It's an awful model. Thats very accurate but there are other games beside WOW that have acomplished an increase in population since launch, which also proves that its not about how great game your release is, but simply out great your game becomes. Here is a short list of games who's population saw massive increases in some cases over 2000% increases. Eve Online: It went from 3,000 players after launch and went to break over 150,000 players with over 300,000 subscribers at one point. It also won MMO of the year from several highly respected online sites and magazines several years after release. Dungeons and Dragons Online: This games population has been growing since launch and continues to grow to this day. Star Wars Galaxies: After a disasterous initial year it went on to grow a population of dedicated players that stuck around for 8 years. So while I agree that this is the case for most games, their are many games who see a lot of growth in some cases like Eve Online many years after release. Star Wars Old Republics future won't be decided anytime soon. Its all about what they do in the next couple of years, but its also true that this game caters to ... simpler players and as such they tend to be less patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraith Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It has failed though(fact) and nothing they do will change that. Define Failed. In what way has it failed? In what way is this a fact? In what way is anything you say important enough to be substaniated? Why are you here? Why are you not in school? What do you think about painting frogs the color purple? Have you seen a $20 bill on weed? Are you mad that the game doesn't make you more attractive to the ladies? Are you mad at your parent for not paying your sub? Do you miss your Night Elf and your kitty cat? Do you think life fails because you have zits? Does your mother know you are not in school? Just curious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadehX Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Objective failure: If it loses money...and it won't given how they set up the cost of the game and monthly subscriptions. They'll be making yearly profits after only 1 year, which is a lot quicker than most businesses. Subjective failure: Take your pick. Some don't like the PVP aspect, some don't like PVE, some are whining because the class they picked got nerfed and they now cry crocodile tears, etc. Subjective failure doesn't really matter all that much, because in the end, all that matters is whether or not it makes money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 but what determines if SWTOR is a failure? Depends on WHO is saying it. If its a pleyer saying it then... The individual determines it. If a person thinks the game failed because of X, nothing else matters because to THAT person, it did fail. Its an opinion based on personal likes/dislikes. If a person that is part of the INDUSTRY (company/magazine) is saying it then... Sales to cost ratio, retention rate, and lifespan deternmines it. If the game cost for example 200 million to make and total sales dont come close to covering those costs...its a failure, ongoing costs increase even as subscription money comes in to even costs out. Being a part of a lager company like EA gives a set amount of time for the game to become profitable before the axe comes down on the design team and people are let go. Retention rate, if the retention rate is below genre standard it will be viewed as a failure which is true. most MMORPGs lose around the same amount of players, those games that lost more like Anarchy Online, Conan, DCU....are viewed as failures. And needless to say, lifespan...if a game shuts down or doesnt last a long time before merging servers to extend its life...no brainer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ...what determines if SWTOR is a failure?... For a few, albeit loud, players SWTOR will fail if it isn't World of Warcraft with lightsabers already, replete with half-dozen expansions, and within 30 days of release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 PVP in SWG for the first 7 years consisted of standing around Resutuss and praying a Red dot appeared so you and your 20 fellow faction members could go get that quick 154 GCW points. Restuss didn't become a PvP zone until year 5 or so. Early on, I remember the epic running battles that would rage back and forth between Bestine and Anchorhead. See, at that time, players did things of their own volition because they enjoyed the act of doing it, not because they got +points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 WoW has been the only MMORPG to grow past 6 months. This is complete garbage. Lineage Lineage II Lineage III SWG EQ1 EQ2 FF11 Guild Wars Rift had a big drop off after 3-4 months then surged again a few months after their major content update Hell, free games like Runes of Magic, Atlantica and Vindictus have not only retained millions of players over the years they have been going, but expanded their playerbases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonasty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Define Failed. In what way has it failed? In what way is this a fact? In what way is anything you say important enough to be substaniated? Why are you here? Why are you not in school? What do you think about painting frogs the color purple? Have you seen a $20 bill on weed? Are you mad that the game doesn't make you more attractive to the ladies? Are you mad at your parent for not paying your sub? Do you miss your Night Elf and your kitty cat? Do you think life fails because you have zits? Does your mother know you are not in school? Just curious.... You make me lawl hard good sir. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) ...needed to be in beta for at least another year but EA just shoved it out the door No business can lightly break a contract, especially one that offers common stock. Case in point: Jumpgate: Evolution decided their game was not ready and went back into develpment and was sued by a corporate investor. Apparently what could have been a really good spaceflight combat simulation was completely lost to us and all because the developer knew it wasn't ready and delayed the launch. You might not like it but businesses live in the real world. This game is plenty good enough to release, it just doesn't meet your armchair evaluation of perfection. You can be hypercritical when you can do better. If you can do better launch your product. If you can't, pipe down. Edited January 27, 2012 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-Wan Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) yup pretty much what this guy says, **** needed to be in beta for at least another year but EA just shoved it out the door This game was in development for six years. Think about, it SIX YEARS. It didn't need to wait another year it needed to come out 2 to 3 years sooner. This game broke no new ground (save VO) and could have got to the same place with expansions and upgrades but with years of revenue and player feed back. Now what you have is a fairly average game that cost 300million dollars and six years to make. Edited January 27, 2012 by Matty-Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randytravis Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Do you know whats ironic about these threads? If this thread fills up its roughly 1000 posts. I think roughly anyway. Lets say full it gets 5-15k views too. Thats **** all compared to the playerbase playing this game. So how you guys cansit there running your mouths about trying to justify qqing that its failed or succeded is beyond me. Just go play the bloody game or just leave....... No one knows what the majority pf the playerbase thinks about the game because 70% avoide the forums cos whinning idiots stating there opionion is righteous...... Edited January 27, 2012 by Randytravis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonasty Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 U mad brah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ...This game broke no new ground (save VO) ... Crafting advanced from the LotRO Legacy system, which was an advance. The use of engrossing plotlines and story, was a clear advance (and spare me your literary criticism) The AI/Companion advance is a clear advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedricshots Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) The way an mmo fails is developers not listening to the community. Oh and adding pandas and pokemon is a good start to a massive failure also. Edited January 27, 2012 by Daedricshots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randytravis Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) U mad brah? Well slightly i guess lol. Well not bad but more just baffled that players havent got tired of these debates. Ive quit wow like 5 times whilst i played that. Did i ever make sone stupid thread about it? No...... Most people don't. They just get on with there lives. So what is with players thinking they need to prove a point? Because nobody has a clue what the majority of players thinks. Edited January 27, 2012 by Randytravis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalliah Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Here's how I determine whether a game is a failure. I've got two categories one for MMOs and one for SPs. For and SP. Do I enjoy the game enough to keep playing it until the end without it feeling like a chore and does it feel like the amount of time I got to play it relative to the enjoyment level match with the amount money I paid for it. MMOs. Do I enjoy playing it and want to keep playing it over whatever period of time. Does the amount of time and enjoyment level match with the initial cost and monthly sub as I'm playing it. If the answer is no to any of this then the game has failed. It failed me. That's what counts in the long run. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or whether in terms of 'numbers' other people play. So WOW to me was a failure. Rift is a success. (still subbing for raids). SwTor so far is not a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Crafting advanced from the LotRO Legacy system, which was an advance. The use of engrossing plotlines and story, was a clear advance (and spare me your literary criticism) The AI/Companion advance is a clear advance There is nothing about this crafting system that is an advance in this genre, it is all around generic and lacking in variety in items to be made. Most skills have 4-6 items each bracket, thats about as generic as you can get. Engrossing plotline is subjective and basically what you said is that no MMORPG ever made had a good storyline...which again, is subjective to the individuals opinion. Fact, is not an opinion or subjective. The AI is no better or worse than most MMOs, companions are new to the genre, but not a new idea for RPGs. You could have chosen far better examples to give for this game breaking new ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benfynyn Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 To me, a real failure in the gaming industry comes in three forms. 1) They fail to bring the product to market (see Hero's Journey by Simutronics)2) They fail to recoup their expenses after launch and to maintain that profitability going forward3) They alienate their player base hurting future revenue and projects. I don't see EA/Bioware failing in any of those ways. I enjoy the game. When I have had problems I've been able to get assistance and move beyond them. Based on my own personal experiences with the game and companies behind it I chose to subscribe. I would prefer more updates on future content and general improvements but I'm sure that once the major bugs are addressed they'll have more time for such things and the community will be more receptive to the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthWomprat Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Whether or not it's an economic success means nothing to me. I won't profit monetarily from Bioware's success. I determine if it's a failure as to whether or not I want to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephismo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Definately not you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardarter Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 biggest problem with this game is lack of polish and lack of foresight. The polish part comes down to all the little bugs all over the place and the big ones too. The lack of foresight is designing "mirror" classes but having animations with different durations, travel time, different resources for mirrors. I would also throw melee classes into the foresight dept. since they are at a sever disadvantage in pvp in this game, it can be overcome but there is an inherent disadvantage especially for non stealthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshwake Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 1. EA/Bioware lost money due to high development costs ($300 million) so SWTOR is a financial failure! The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions Recouping their losses in just over a year would be really really bad. They would be much better off simply investing that $300 million. That would easily be considered a failure. Also, you did not even consider taxes or overhead and cost of operation for the "little over a year" to simply break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barathos Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 To me a failed MMO is when... 1) The game hasn't really broken any new ground. It's basicly a WoW replica without the 7 years of development.2) The population is low. This is big for me, cause I like to group a lot, so if there aren't a lot of people to group with... well... problem3) When I get to end-game, will it be like WoW? Or can I do other things besides the usual dungeon / pvp grinds to get gear?4) Does the primary feature in the MMO bore me after awhile? (Rift's rifts, for example.) That's how it fails for this individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadehX Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You make me lawl hard good sir. Thank you Constructive answer. Clearly you're unable to answer in a constructive manner and answer the questions, and rather resort to pointless one-liner troll posts. The thread title is "what determines SWTOR's failure?". All you contributed was "it has already failed (fact)". That's not even a real answer, it's a simple troll rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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