RadehX Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Recouping their losses in just over a year would be really really bad. They would be much better off simply investing that $300 million. That would easily be considered a failure. Also, you did not even consider taxes or overhead and cost of operation for the "little over a year" to simply break even. A company making a profit 1 year after launch is an AWESOME success. I take it you don't work in the investment industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadCapper Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Games that people write off as failures have went on to make millions while the people saying they are failures still work at Mcdonalds if they have a job at all. Why bother taking those opinions seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Games that people write off as failures have went on to make millions while the people saying they are failures still work at Mcdonalds if they have a job at all. Why bother taking those opinions seriously? And seeing as how you have not made millions, we shouldnt take your opinion seriously and still listen to theirs. Doh! Your opinion does not override theirs, nor theirs yours. Its an opinion based on personal likes and expeirences. No one can tell another that their opinion about a game is wrong, it would be like telling someone they are wrong for not liking the taste of a food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geglad Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) I actually have it on good authority that the sun will rise tomorrow. Until 21 December, then it will rise in the West! That's why the Mayan calendar ended, they had to account for the change in the rotation of the Earth. Bah - its old news now to me! I been stocking the cupboard in my studio for years, ever since I moved out of that basement... Its been rough, but I am prepared. If the world flips spin, I will be ready. Have chow to last me a long time! I am just glad at least one other person understands the severity of this situation. Our interpretation of the signs of the oncoming end-times is completely objective, I mean look at the evidence! This message must be passed on to save the masses! Sally forth Mandrath! But I really dont think you have any evidence the sun will rise tomorrow! I am calling shen...what have ya. Dang. I have to go! I forgot to buy tea again. I like tea, or at least I think I still do...wont know for certain until I buy some and try it again. Huh? -Lad Ps - what is a hume? Nm - tea! Edited January 28, 2012 by Geglad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertK Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Translated: I am grinding my QQing skills. Gringing QQ skills. HA! thats actually hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artilleryshell Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 sorry that you're still in delusion. Don't worry, it wont last much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) ... Engrossing plotline is subjective and basically what you said is that no MMORPG ever made had a good storyline...which again, is subjective to the individuals opinion. Fact, is not an opinion or subjective. ... Experience is always subjective, and is fact, not opinion. Opinion is different from what you appear to believe. Some opinions are better than others: that is why businesses pay subject-matter experts to consult. In my experience, SWTOR has the best writing of any MMO I have played. Hmm... I have to hedge that: Best developer studio-sourced story. JRRTolkein is, after all, a heavyweight. What story have you seen in any MMO you think is as good as these? Edited January 31, 2012 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samvan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What determines SWTOR's failure..... Let's see. There we go. Can I /thread this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What determines SWTOR's failure..... Let's see. There we go. Can I /thread this? Your toon has nice hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altumus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I like this game, I'm not going to write a book - I'm not going to say anyone that has issues with the game should not - but for right now, my partner, myself, and a good handful of my friends really enjoy the game. This could change When I don't like the game anymore - is it even a failure then? Not really, because it entertained me for at least a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What determines SWTOR's failure..... Let's see. There we go. Can I /thread this? Could you deconstruct what happened there? Which parts of failure were BioWares responsibility, in your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balrizangor Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) i dont care who considers it a failure. it aint fun for me This is the first time I have seen an honest, non-complaining answer about the game that is negative, for this, I truly do applaud you. I have not understood why people that are not having fun are so hopeful that the game fails, just quit if you don't like it. Atleast this poster has the right of it, he doesn't care if it succeeds or fails, it just isn't fun for him. For me, it is still fun and I still have things to do, when that changes, I will probably cancel (and I promise everyone, I will not come to the forums during my last month to whine about the game, I will just move on, quietly, like we all wish others would do =) ) Edited January 31, 2012 by Balrizangor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Games like WoW only remain because of their ability to bring in new players, not keep original players, or retain players after a certain amount of time. SW: TOR will be different in 2 years...after 5 years, even more so. Failure is in the mind of the console player who wants instant gratification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Experience is always subjective, and is fact, not opinion. Opinion is different from what you appear to believe. Some opinions are better than others: that is why businesses pay subject-matter experts to consult. In my experience, SWTOR has the best writing of any MMO I have played. Hmm... I have to hedge that: Best developer studio-sourced story. JRRTolkein is, after all, a heavyweight. What story have you seen in any MMO you think is as good as these? The Argent Dawn and Argent Crusade, and of course DK--short as it was. [Monster, murederer, (dodge tomatoes), hisss] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knyghtprowler Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 warhammer online also sold around a million copies within a week, that cost less to make than the old republic. Look how that turned out. b-i-n-g-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) So exactly what has determined that SWTOR will fail and/or die? What massive MMO expertise do you bring to the table that allows you disregard the above facts? What makes SWTOR a failure? Because you or many of you have decided to quit playing? I hate to break it to you but SWTOR will still be alive and well for years to come whether you are here or not. I am not saying this game is a failure, but if i were to speak about its failures then i would measure those against the aims and objectives that Bioware themselves outlined for this game when they were describing the type of MMO they were creating and the rhetoric they continue to use about the kind of game they hope this will be. That in addition to the established best practices of the existing market. Based on that, this game does have some concrete failings thus far, but we cannot call it an overall failure because it also has some qualified successes. Those who fail to acknowledge the limited failures are as bad as those who will not accept the successes, in my opinion. Neither position is constructive for moving the game forward. Edited January 31, 2012 by AKfourtyseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samvan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Could you deconstruct what happened there? Which parts of failure were BioWares responsibility, in your view? Maybe the entire graphic/game engine? I can render 720p video and meantime play BF3 on medium with steady 25-30 fps. But I can't do Open World PVP in SWTOR? What's up son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaalix Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I keep seeing all these threads in this forum and the running theme is that SWTOR is going to fail is failing has already failed. The time lines for these failure projections range from 2 weeks to 6 months to a year, but what determines if SWTOR is a failure? 1. EA/Bioware lost money due to high development costs ($300 million) so SWTOR is a financial failure! The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions 2. The game will fail because tons of people are unsubscribing and SWTOR will just die from lack of players! The fact is not every game is WoW, every game doesn't need 11 million players to stay alive. There are plenty of MMOs that not only survive but thrive with only a few hundred thousand players and are in no danger of being shut down. Star Wars Galaxies lasted over 8 years with a rather small player base compared to WoW. Even if 90% of all the current SWTOR players quit it still would not die. If you judge the success or failure of a MMO on whether it knocks WoW off the MMO mountain then every MMO is a failure in your eyes. SWG sold over a million copies too but only cost 15 million to make so it could stay afloat a lot longer than this can with no subscribers, and this game lost a huge chuck and will continue to lose a huge portion of subscribers everyday. 3. SWTOR is failing so bad it will be Free To Play in "X" weeks/months! The fact is a game going Free To Play doesn't constitute a failure. In fact most MMOs that switch from a subscription based business model to a Free to Play + Microtransactions business model see a surge in their player base. Examples being LOTRO and DC Universe Online, which is a perfect example as it had a great release then lost most of it's subscribers in the first few months then late last year they went free to play + microtransactions and then gained over 1 million new players. Farmville works on a free to play + microtransactions model and has a player base of over 110 million players with an average 32 million players playing online at any given moment. Zynga makes over $500 million a year just from Farmville. A game being or becoming free to play hardly constitutes a failure in fact it is probably just the opposite. Those games are failures and you can lump ddo in there too along with aoc. As soon as a game goes free to play you admit failure as a gaming developer. All those free to play games are complete and utter garbage as well. You won't see F2P in this game but you will see all that awesome armor that was taken out in beta put back in and purchasable through micro transactions. Its just a matter of when.. So exactly what has determined that SWTOR will fail and/or die? What massive MMO expertise do you bring to the table that allows you disregard the above facts? What makes SWTOR a failure? Because you or many of you have decided to quit playing? I hate to break it to you but SWTOR will still be alive and well for years to come whether you are here or not. Whether or not this game survives for years to come, it has failed because it is obvious to anyone who saw heavy servers and ques go to standard and light within 5 weeks. 90% of the servers are dead and dieing fast. Considering these servers only support 5000 total players on both empire/republic sides, its not too hard to figure out that 0-500 = light 500-999 = standard 1000-2500 = moderate and 2500 to 4999 = heavy then 5000=full and ques ensue. I've been in discussion with someone who setups up the back ends and servers for mmo's and this is standard protocol according to him. Some games do support more per server but its rare and stability is top priority when setting them up. But getting back to the point. 90% of these servers in NA are reading standard and light populations... You can actually go from area to area and count roughly how many people are logged in and the time I did it, it was less than 500 on a Saturday evening. That is pathetic and screams failure. To be perfectly honest, this game has failed to capture the majority mmo crowd. It has retained some but mostly I think whats left over as far as demographics are concerned, is just a single player bioware/kotor/star wars diehard group of players. The minority if you will. It may be that they can keep this game supported and going but its highly unlikely. Upcoming games will crush whats left of this game population and that is a sad fact because I wanted this to be my mmo for well into the future. But its not really an mmo since the mmo parts of this game fail to capture my attention and interest. They wasted way too much time on story and cut scenes and the rest of the game is suffering badly. They made a crucial error in thinking most of us will be coming back once they fix the game but I lost all faith in bioware. Its no longer the bioware of old and is simply EA/Mythic. Both companies do not know how to make an mmo as far as I'm concerned and are dragging whats left of biowares name threw the mud with this mediocre compilation of mass failure. Another thing to note is how the forums drastically calmed down since the first month players left. That right there should be a huge indicator to actually how many people left. Either you people are not overly aware of all these little signs that have come to pass regarding this game or you just see what you want to see regarding the current state of this game. Or it could be you're all mostly EA shills working forum damage control. Either way, the writing is on the wall for many of us. Bioware needed to admit its failure. Pull the game offline and refund every single one of us. Port the game to gamebyro engine and hire better personal to fix core design flaws that plague the current incarnation of this game and fix all the imbalances with pvp. If you didn't hit 50 in this first week or 2 you can't compete with what little end game this game is offering. When all the single player gamers get to end game, at the 3-4 month mark, watch for another mass exodus. People are no longer predicting failure. It's already come to pass. We can also put blame on Lucas Arts. They forced the NGE on sony after blizzard released wow and out of sheer greed they forced a piss poor design on what was left of that games population. It in effect killed the game and spawned this garbage we see before us. A complete wow rip off done very poorly. At least if your going to steal and mirror wow, do it right or don't do it at all. If you know your swg history and lucas's sheer lust for money, you will realize they had a big part in this failure and they got what they deserved.. Another failed star wars mmo that will never compete with the triple A mmo's like eq2, wow or rift.. Thers just way too many left brained thinkers revolving around things like games where its a right brainer who will make you a truly amazing and innovative game. I don't expect many of you to understand the dynamics behind all this but its blatantly obvious to me. Edited January 31, 2012 by rakkiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Maybe the entire graphic/game engine? I can render 720p video and meantime play BF3 on medium with steady 25-30 fps. But I can't do Open World PVP in SWTOR? What's up son? We used to turn off names (DAoC) for a noticable improvement in graphics performance for big fights is all. YMMV Edited January 31, 2012 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpeeGamers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Warhammer Online also sold around a million copies within a week, that cost less to make than The Old Republic. Look how that turned out. Are you kidding? Not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicSaint Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I keep seeing all these threads in this forum and the running theme is that SWTOR is going to fail is failing has already failed. The time lines for these failure projections range from 2 weeks to 6 months to a year, but what determines if SWTOR is a failure? 1. EA/Bioware lost money due to high development costs ($300 million) so SWTOR is a financial failure! The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions 2. The game will fail because tons of people are unsubscribing and SWTOR will just die from lack of players! The fact is not every game is WoW, every game doesn't need 11 million players to stay alive. There are plenty of MMOs that not only survive but thrive with only a few hundred thousand players and are in no danger of being shut down. Star Wars Galaxies lasted over 8 years with a rather small player base compared to WoW. Even if 90% of all the current SWTOR players quit it still would not die. If you judge the success or failure of a MMO on whether it knocks WoW off the MMO mountain then every MMO is a failure in your eyes. 3. SWTOR is failing so bad it will be Free To Play in "X" weeks/months! The fact is a game going Free To Play doesn't constitute a failure. In fact most MMOs that switch from a subscription based business model to a Free to Play + Microtransactions business model see a surge in their player base. Examples being LOTRO and DC Universe Online, which is a perfect example as it had a great release then lost most of it's subscribers in the first few months then late last year they went free to play + microtransactions and then gained over 1 million new players. Farmville works on a free to play + microtransactions model and has a player base of over 110 million players with an average 32 million players playing online at any given moment. Zynga makes over $500 million a year just from Farmville. A game being or becoming free to play hardly constitutes a failure in fact it is probably just the opposite. So exactly what has determined that SWTOR will fail and/or die? What massive MMO expertise do you bring to the table that allows you disregard the above facts? What makes SWTOR a failure? Because you or many of you have decided to quit playing? I hate to break it to you but SWTOR will still be alive and well for years to come whether you are here or not. None of the above: For me what turned me away was the game is a single player game much more than an MMO. 1 month after release and every world I go to (minus Fleet) seems to be desolate, I see an average of maybe 4 or 5 people in an hour. Ask for help with an Heroic , it will take awhile to get 3 more people for that. (Shii Cho server) I stopped playing single player games back when Morrowind was new and I completed it. Lets see Bioware fix this problem. I'm not getting the impression this company can do anything in a timely manner and I don't see it being a huge success as a single player game. Will it close the servers down? No. Will its population decrease until a server merge is necessary? Pretty likely. Swtor has problems , they are significant and wide spread through out the game . People are losing confidence ( threads like these are becoming more common place ) that BW can address and fix the serious ones fast enough to keep people happy. It's all about damage control for BW and the way I see it, it's struggling . It is upsetting even more of the customer base as time goes by due to BW's response & reaction time being as laggy & inconsistent as their game. Some people will stay no matter what because it appeals to them on some level but for the average player and the super gamer this game wont hold them for very long. The average player will leave because it doesnt offer a whole lot besides leveling characters to see the story line. The super gamer wont stay because the game breaks in some new fashion from day to day Edited January 31, 2012 by GothicSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) ... If you didn't hit 50 in this first week... What kind of player would rush to 50 without checking to see whether there was much to do at level cap? It isn't right to blame Bioware for your lack of foresight. People are no longer predicting failure. It's already come to pass. Interesting. I'm still having a blast. Have you ever wondered whether maybe you might be playing it wrong? Maybe you should adapt to a different game environment instead of trying to port the way you played the game you left. But of course not: what was I thinking. I'm enjoying the game and you are not, therefore I must be delusional and you are playing perfectly. Well, at least I am getting my money's worth and smile more. Edited January 31, 2012 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicSaint Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What kind of player would rush to 50 without checking to see whether there was much to do at level cap? It isn't right to blame Bioware for your lack of foresight. Interesting. I'm still having a blast. Have you ever wondered whether maybe you might be playing it wrong? Maybe you should adapt to a different game environment instead of trying to port the way you played the game you left. But of course not: what was I thinking. I'm enjoying the game and you are not, therefore I must be delusional and you are playing perfectly. Well, at least I am getting my money's worth and smile more. It's alright to blame a paying customer to have foresight into an unknown aspect of a game, rather than a company that spent millions in producing the game keep it interesting at level 50? I want a beer to go with that pretzel logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHChrist Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If it is like most trends, this game will last until the next big name MMO comes out. Most likely GW2...WoW might have been able to pull in a lot with a cool expansion but Panda bears ruined it. This is now officially a fill-in-the gap MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelestrialFox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If it is like most trends, this game will last until the next big name MMO comes out. Most likely GW2...WoW might have been able to pull in a lot with a cool expansion but Panda bears ruined it. This is now officially a fill-in-the gap MMO. You will find same failing in every MMO you go to until you stop looking at future games as if they were made to your exact specifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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