Gearing Feedback PTS Thread

[recalcitrantIre]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:22 AM, Exly said:

Are the rules changing for item disintegration?  I tried disintegrating some 320 - 336 Nobel Decurion and Tionese gear but it was destroyed instead.  

that just means you dont have enough open inventory slots

[Lord_Malganus]

1 hour ago, TheRandomno said:

Also, it takes about 1600 OP-1 tokens to go from 340 to 344. That's 200 master mode chapters. I don't think farming KotFE chapter 2 on a stealther is "playing your way", if that's what the intention is with that.

It's giving the appearance anyone can get 344, but keeping it exclusive via a long tedious grind for a meager 4 ilvs.

[Lannadew]

My character transferred without tech fragments and conquest commendations. Is it normal?

[TheRandomno]

26 minutes ago, Lannadew said:

My character transferred without tech fragments and conquest commendations. Is it normal?

Yes

[Lannadew]

Thanks! I'll have to grind some tokens then

[chaharbagh]

Just do not get rid of the R4 gear vendors. The amount of NPCs that have been removed/discarded from the game is just ridiculous. Besides, those vendors also sell cosmetic shells.

Edited October 28, 2023 by chaharbagh

[Melon_Lord]

Allow Galactic Season Tokens to buy a stack of previous seasons' rep tokens

[fabsus]

On 10/28/2023 at 6:54 AM, TheRandomno said:

A lot of this seems fairly set in stone, so I'm not sure what's worth feeding back on.

Overall, the gearing system is still convoluted and complicated. It seems like a weird mix of "play your way" and "the best gear comes from the hardest content".

Until the launch of 5.0 we had the latter system. Then Galactic Command came and while it had its flaws, it was a decent way of letting people gear how they wished. This later turned into Renown in 6.0.

Now with 7.0, even with the removal of the daily tokens there are still several currencies. If you're expanding access to Rakata gear, what's the point of all of them?

Also, it takes about 1600 OP-1 tokens to go from 340 to 344. That's 200 master mode chapters. I don't think farming KotFE chapter 2 on a stealther is "playing your way", if that's what the intention is with that.

+1

also i wanna add, that if your want feedback about the gear changes, you should make it very easy to get them. so place a vendor next to them, giving you all you need to buy the gear. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by fabsus

[Trevenza]

Why not just put the 444 rating items on Hyde & Zeek and increase the amount of OP-1 Catalyst up to the iR of 444? 

[JackieKo]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:17 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

Question re: Master mode chapters.

If we run them as a group, will everyone in the group get 8 OP-1 Catalysts each? Or is only the lead player eligible for the reward? 

For 7.4, only the player running the chapter will get the OP-1 Catalysts. We are, however, looking into options to make them available to the entire group in a future update.

[csilvajonas]

Why not make the gearing system simple?

My feedback on this is that it ain't a good system, you could pretty much do this:
If bis gear is aimed for endgame players (both pve and pvp), get the token system out of R4 and put tokens on master mode bosses and pvp dailies/weeklies. It's a fair system and gets the right spot for those players imo. Keep the R4 system from first to 4th bosses and any boss after that gives a universal token. For pvp, you could make dailies drop first and second boss token, weeklies drop 3rd and 4th. Gearing should not be rocket science imo, a simple and fair system sounds much better for games, specially when you consider that some people will have 1 or 2 hours of gameplay on a week and will not have time to repeat content over and over (+ the fact that it gets boring, see what happened to DF/DP story mode farming). Keeping it like this will prevent people who only farm first bosses to get the best gear as well. Please consider that this complex system with 3 types of currency is not a good one and giving as a reward from other types of content is even worse (see what happened when you gave augments crafting materials as a ranked pvp reward, a lot of pve players doing pvp just for that)

[Toraak]

23 minutes ago, csilvajonas said:

Why not make the gearing system simple?

My feedback on this is that it ain't a good system, you could pretty much do this:
If bis gear is aimed for endgame players (both pve and pvp), get the token system out of R4 and put tokens on master mode bosses and pvp dailies/weeklies. It's a fair system and gets the right spot for those players imo. Keep the R4 system from first to 4th bosses and any boss after that gives a universal token. For pvp, you could make dailies drop first and second boss token, weeklies drop 3rd and 4th. Gearing should not be rocket science imo, a simple and fair system sounds much better for games, specially when you consider that some people will have 1 or 2 hours of gameplay on a week and will not have time to repeat content over and over (+ the fact that it gets boring, see what happened to DF/DP story mode farming). Keeping it like this will prevent people who only farm first bosses to get the best gear as well. Please consider that this complex system with 3 types of currency is not a good one and giving as a reward from other types of content is even worse (see what happened when you gave augments crafting materials as a ranked pvp reward, a lot of pve players doing pvp just for that)

Bad example of the Augment crafting materials. What that really got was PvE players Win trading to get those mats. That was definitely not good for the game, and why Bioware at the time made other ways to get those materials.

[Brittaany_Banks]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:37 PM, JackieKo said:

With 7.4 we’re going to begin expanding access to Artifact gear as well. OP-1 Catalysts are coming to your Master Mode Chapters. Players who take on these treacherous challenges will be rewarded with 8 OP-1 Catalysts per completion.

Look I get it. You are adding a reward for content that is rarely played outside of gaining achievements, so thank you for that BUT this reward is honestly a slap in the face. Reason being is a columi gear piece which is dropped from the easiest operations can be deconstructed for 8 OP-1s and you get 4-5 of them, as well as OP-1s from the bosses and if it is a weekly 65 OP-1s from completion of that. Rakata relics that can be dropped from the same operation deconstruct for 15 each and can be baited to drop from the boss by replacing your relic with a 306 rated one.

I understand the desire to keep the amount low so that these chapters don't wind up becoming the defacto best way to upgrade your gear but NOBODY and I mean NOBODY is going to farm nothing but Master Mode KOTFE and KOTET chapters for their Rakata upgrade process. I think at least 15 OP-1s is an adequate reward for completion of this content.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Brittaany_Banks
Clarified some points

[csilvajonas]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Bad example of the Augment crafting materials. What that really got was PvE players Win trading to get those mats. That was definitely not good for the game, and why Bioware at the time made other ways to get those materials.

I wasn't as clear as i thought on my phrasing. I meant that as an example of things that should not be done, as in "do not put gear/mats used for something as a reward to random content", like they're planning to do right now to put OP catalyst as a reward for master mode chapters. Makes no sense to get endgame gear from something that is not endgame content. The augment mats on pvp was a bad choice from them, neither pve or pvp players were happy with it. My suggestion to them is: just make it simple. I don't think gearing should be something you have to do for hours/weeks to get the best gear or a complex system where you need 2 or 3 types of currency to get. If gearing is what keeps people playing, they have a content problem. I'd go even further, knowing this ain't the topic, but i don't think we need new level caps in future expansions as well. Just focus on balacing everything to level 80 and bring more/new/exciting content (like set the goal for 1 new ops a year, 1 new pvp map, 1 flashpoint, get classes/specs to an optimal balance and stop messing with them). Idk, i just think it's a waste of real life resources to keep changing stuff like this, new gear, new level, when all i see on forums and discord communities are people asking for new content. It's a bad feeling to relearn classes every 4 years and sad when that's the only new content we get. Like, they don't have to make every new ops a masterpiece like gods from the machine. As long as it's not boring as dxun (2 bosses where you just have to run away from a group of adds is not fun) or broken like R4 (dead people in the frames, a tunnel full of adds so unbalanced that dying there is part of the mechanics), i think people will be happy (can't say what makes pvp players happy cause i don't play pvp)

Edited November 8, 2023 by csilvajonas

[SnakeSNMF]

Howdy there. I want to say this-- I think only eight per chapter is -very- lax when you take into consideration the amount of time to upgrade a single piece of gear. I'd wager that the numbers need some tuning. And I'd also suggest adding an option to trade PvP currency for OP-1 Catalyst as well, if the intention is to stick with allowing everyone to gear any way they'd please. Currently as it stands from what I've seen on the PTS-- That won't be the case.

 

Unless there is intentions to lower the requirement of catalysts per piece of gear, then-- Some numbers need to be changed in favor of the player. That's my two cents. Thanks!

[Toraak]

2 hours ago, SnakeSNMF said:

Howdy there. I want to say this-- I think only eight per chapter is -very- lax when you take into consideration the amount of time to upgrade a single piece of gear. I'd wager that the numbers need some tuning. And I'd also suggest adding an option to trade PvP currency for OP-1 Catalyst as well, if the intention is to stick with allowing everyone to gear any way they'd please. Currently as it stands from what I've seen on the PTS-- That won't be the case.

 

Unless there is intentions to lower the requirement of catalysts per piece of gear, then-- Some numbers need to be changed in favor of the player. That's my two cents. Thanks!

The problem is if they put to many Op-1 mats per chapter (which are infinitely repeatable), then it would give less incentive to people doing Operations. 8 per chapter is probably about the right amount to be honest.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Toraak

[DeannaVoyager]

7 hours ago, Toraak said:

The problem is if they put to many Op-1 mats per chapter (which are infinitely repeatable), then it would give less incentive to people doing Operations. 8 per chapter is probably about the right amount to be honest.

People who don't like ops (or other group content) won't do ops no matter what the incentive is. And people who like ops, will always pick ops instead of chapters. So I don't see a problem there. I like that people can choose the activity rather than get everyone funneled into same content and have them hate it. If someone is crazy enough to farm chapters for their Op-1, let them. They will also have to learn to play to get through some of them, I call that a win-win. 

[Toraak]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

People who don't like ops (or other group content) won't do ops no matter what the incentive is. And people who like ops, will always pick ops instead of chapters. So I don't see a problem there. I like that people can choose the activity rather than get everyone funneled into same content and have them hate it. If someone is crazy enough to farm chapters for their Op-1, let them. They will also have to learn to play to get through some of them, I call that a win-win. 

My point was more or less if you put the Op-1's at 20+ per chapter, even those that would raid would just spam the easiest chapter just to get the Op-1's from there and be fully geared within the week. Nothing wrong with giving other options however. That's why I said about 8 is probably close to where it should be. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Toraak

[TrixxieTriss]

On 11/9/2023 at 2:35 AM, JackieKo said:

For 7.4, only the player running the chapter will get the OP-1 Catalysts. We are, however, looking into options to make them available to the entire group in a future update.

Hopefully it won’t take 3+ months to incorporate this feature for the entire group. 

[Ardarell_Solo]

On 11/8/2023 at 5:29 PM, Brittaany_Banks said:

Look I get it. You are adding a reward for content that is rarely played outside of gaining achievements, so thank you for that BUT this reward is honestly a slap in the face. Reason being is a columi gear piece which is dropped from the easiest operations can be deconstructed for 8 OP-1s and you get 4-5 of them, as well as OP-1s from the bosses and if it is a weekly 65 OP-1s from completion of that. Rakata relics that can be dropped from the same operation deconstruct for 15 each and can be baited to drop from the boss by replacing your relic with a 306 rated one.

I understand the desire to keep the amount low so that these chapters don't wind up becoming the defacto best way to upgrade your gear but NOBODY and I mean NOBODY is going to farm nothing but Master Mode KOTFE and KOTET chapters for their Rakata upgrade process. I think at least 15 OP-1s is an adequate reward for completion of this content.

No, because OP-1 is group content reward and chapters are solo play. It's pretty neat they still let solo content drop group rewards, but it has to be less then. SWTOR is already very much tailored to solo players, but for the aspects of the game that are still centered around group play to remain relevant at all, there needs to be a reward advantage for playing in a group. Otherwise the game loses any incentive to do group play whatsoever in the long term.

[Toraak]

On 11/8/2023 at 11:29 AM, Brittaany_Banks said:

Look I get it. You are adding a reward for content that is rarely played outside of gaining achievements, so thank you for that BUT this reward is honestly a slap in the face. Reason being is a columi gear piece which is dropped from the easiest operations can be deconstructed for 8 OP-1s and you get 4-5 of them, as well as OP-1s from the bosses and if it is a weekly 65 OP-1s from completion of that. Rakata relics that can be dropped from the same operation deconstruct for 15 each and can be baited to drop from the boss by replacing your relic with a 306 rated one.

I understand the desire to keep the amount low so that these chapters don't wind up becoming the defacto best way to upgrade your gear but NOBODY and I mean NOBODY is going to farm nothing but Master Mode KOTFE and KOTET chapters for their Rakata upgrade process. I think at least 15 OP-1s is an adequate reward for completion of this content.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with your last paragraph. People were willing to spam Hammer Station for 12-24 hours a day when 6.0 hit. Farming the 1 or 2 easiest chapters on Master Mode on a Stealth character would definitely happen. I can already think of at least 2 chapters (Possibly 3) that would be farmed by the vast majority of players if each one Dropped 15 or more Op-1 mats.

Edit: No I won't say which chapters I'm thinking of. Those that have done the chapters on Master Mode would know the ones I'm thinking of.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Toraak

[DeannaVoyager]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

I wouldn't necessarily agree with your last paragraph. People were willing to spam Hammer Station for 12-24 hours a day when 6.0 hit. Farming the 1 or 2 easiest chapters on Master Mode on a Stealth character would definitely happen. I can already think of at least 2 chapters (Possibly 3) that would be farmed by the vast majority of players if each one Dropped 15 or more Op-1 mats.

Edit: No I won't say which chapters I'm thinking of. Those that have done the chapters on Master Mode would know the ones I'm thinking of.

There is a difference. Hammer Station spammers forced everyone who was using group finder to help them farm, and that ruined group finder so badly it's still not recovered. Chapters are solo content: if someone wants to put themselves through 24/7 farming of MM chapters, it's not my problem. It only becomes my problem if I'm dragged there too against my will, which is what happened with 6.x HS farming.

As long as what they are doing doesn't affect me, I don't care what other people do. Why does it bother you so much what other people choose to play? It's really none of your business.

[Toraak]

8 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

There is a difference. Hammer Station spammers forced everyone who was using group finder to help them farm, and that ruined group finder so badly it's still not recovered. Chapters are solo content: if someone wants to put themselves through 24/7 farming of MM chapters, it's not my problem. It only becomes my problem if I'm dragged there too against my will, which is what happened with 6.x HS farming.

As long as what they are doing doesn't affect me, I don't care what other people do. Why does it bother you so much what other people choose to play? It's really none of your business.

I did the HS farm during 6.x, but that wasn't for gear, but for the renown rank of 999. With that being said I did it Solo on Vet mode during the 3 month Double XP event during Covid.

 

At least that way wasn't punishing anyone else but me during that.

[SnakeSNMF]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:29 PM, Toraak said:

The problem is if they put to many Op-1 mats per chapter (which are infinitely repeatable), then it would give less incentive to people doing Operations. 8 per chapter is probably about the right amount to be honest.

Okay. Quick math, then.

8 per chapter. You need 600 to go from 324 to 344 for a single piece of gear. So, 600 divided by 8 is 75 times. You would need to run a single chapter 75 times for one piece of gear. For the amount of total gear, you'd need to run 1050 Master Chapters to upgrade all gear. Realistically, they're going to tune the fastest chapters to farm. They won't need to do so, though. Even at eight minutes, if you have to run 1050 chapters? You're looking at 8400 minutes. Or, a total of 140 hours. What about any of that is realistic or tenable to the player? The numbers need some work.

[Toraak]

14 minutes ago, SnakeSNMF said:

Okay. Quick math, then.

8 per chapter. You need 600 to go from 324 to 344 for a single piece of gear. So, 600 divided by 8 is 75 times. You would need to run a single chapter 75 times for one piece of gear. For the amount of total gear, you'd need to run 1050 Master Chapters to upgrade all gear. Realistically, they're going to tune the fastest chapters to farm. They won't need to do so, though. Even at eight minutes, if you have to run 1050 chapters? You're looking at 8400 minutes. Or, a total of 140 hours. What about any of that is realistic or tenable to the player? The numbers need some work.

question for you. They said rakata gear was being planned to drop from other content. They didn't specify which content.

 

So if BW made rakata gear more available from a solo activity (cough MM chapters would be a great opportunity), even at 8 per chapter, + DC'ing that piece per run your up to 23. Isn't that what your asking for anyway? We don't have enough information yet to say they need an increase at all.

 

Edit: at 23 per an 10-15 min run I'd farm that all day. It would be faster then forming up Ops groups and running ev/kp hm's or NiM Ops. Just the time wasted to form up would be better spent at that point.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Toraak