Thats fair i am just about where the game is going but i would not call a boom for a few weeks then practically dead is considered healthy. And its only 1 of many issues with the system. But at the end of the day you are right it doesn't matter anymore.

I just dont think separating group queue is ever gonna be possible it just leads back to the same issue which is group queue will be dead. Atm if you are in a group at least on SF you will generally get matched against a premade. My and my friends often 2-3 stack and its often against a similar group composition. At the end of the day this isn't a competitive game like other games are. It doesn't have the playerbase to sustain so much queue stratification. Just keep everyone in the same thing like it is now and just play. Because 4 dps vs 4 dps also gets super old after a while, overcoming different comps adds variety to the game. Is the dice gonna roll in your favor sometimes and sometimes it won't. But just reverting back to the old systems still doesn't solve the issues the old system had. And we don't need a elo system just give people tokens for winning that you only get for winning and let them spend it on stuff easy. If you win more then you lose you will eventually be able to get some stuff. And the game already tried to use rewards as the main motivator to get people into ranked, it didn't work then and it won't work now. Ironically despite all that has happened giving people stuff they can actually earn and feel like they can earn has brought more people into the arena queue and they actually stay in queue for some time. Some might even say they get better the more they play.

I don't think the game ever truly had a healthy time for ranked. I mean when you know everyone in the queue by name 2 weeks into the season is never a good sign. And since there wasn't any cross server queues so you could just go were the competition was the least get your rewards and call yourself good. Also this goes for pretty much any role based game using ELO for ranked is a huge flaw. In games were pure mechanical skill are the deciding factors (fighting games, games like CS, Valorant, Halo etc.) it tends to work better. But in role based games you can lose because someone on your team decided to get globaled, or your jungle decides to never gank, or the rein doesn't put up a shield can cause you to drop. And unless you got a large player pool like LoL, were there is a very good chance that everyone in every role is gonna be pretty close to skill it just leads to a bad experience. TBH it was ineivtable for it to stop being supported, and if we are being honest since they got rid of it this is the most consistent I have been able to actually play arenas in a long time. And they are not all washes I have ran into some very solid players and the more I win (sitting 78% win rate on merc, 67% AP PT, 60% on sin tank, 65% PT tank, 58% on sniper Engi and Marks) we get stiffer competition. But at least we can play arenas and only arenas which is alot more fun the warzones to me at least. I know not every player will agree but removal of ranked didn't decrease my enjoyment of the game at all. At the end of the day i like how the game plays, I enjoy pvping in it, I don't need a flair or a reward to do so. I got my personal stats i can keep trying to improve spec to spec. Now would it be nice to have something for winning alot yes sir I would love it. Dont get me wrong, but I am gonna rush back a super long queues for ranked arenas nah. If two players or guilds really want to determine who is better there are other avenues for that you don't need a leaderboard that people manipulate to tell you who is good. Also it shows in a match who is good, there are plenty of people running around with flairs that clearly win traded for them getting their butts kicked by people who they thought less of and its quite funny to see it alot of the times. Not all of course I am sure someone will be like I dominate the queue etc. but yeah if you are just that much better then most players you should? That is the reward for the time you put in.

I am just addressing the point that people group for various reasons. If you dont want to group up at all, that is perfectly fine and your personal choice. But this notion that the matchmaking basically never works, generalizing why people play in premades, etc. is what i am referring to. Like every pvp video game has matches in which a snowball occurs even really competitive one. And all people are doing is remembering the 1-2 matches out of 10 and saying add more queues, split the playerbase more and more. And after playing literally over 150+ games this weekend in and out of premades most of the time it put against one. And when there wasn't one it put us against duos and trios but the matchmaking time was longer when that happened. When i queued solo most games were against other solo players and the pops happened very quickly. I have nothing against someone play solo, i play solo as well on most days of the week. All I didn't like or disagreed with is the notion that the only reason people premade is to get easy wins. And its more annoying when its being said by people who even if they were in a premade would still get farmed because most of the time you have to fight other premades.

Typical Trix. Their favorite thing to do is take a stance by making a generalization of an entire group of players but then when someone makes any form of generalization of the demographic they fall into its victim complex time. Or its taking their subjective opinion and passing it off as fact. But it has to it must be that people just want easy wins. It could not be: 1. People enjoy playing with their friends. (how barbaric right? People have friends to queue with?) 2. People like to syngergize roles and classes in a role based game. (What team work in synergy between classes what? never!) 3. They want to give themselves the best chance to win (trying to win? in a game based on competition were one wins and the other loses?) 4. Or maybe they took the time to utilize the social features designed to group people up and play together and made friends and now want to do things with their friends. (no way they used guild chat to get a group going? What crazy). But no no they just want to farm easy wins. Couldn't be that people play the game for a variety of reasons its just the one that suits my narrative aint that right trix? Idk man at this point its like beating a dead horse. Bioware has made their stance clear on this issue, they have made multiple updates reinforcing it and majority of the players tbh do not care. People are still queuing, guilds are still making events and groups around the content. Through the whole weekend both arena and warzone queues were popping well into the night. At some point there is a just deal with it. And if you think a premade gives you such a huge advantage then why not make one? Like if you spent half the time you spent on the forums complaining actually putting a group of like minded people together you would have your own premade. Then you might actually realize that when you do queue a premade that it actually pits you against another more often then you think. And then you are gonna realize something else, they are still gonna farm you. Because while you complained about the 2k dps you pull every match there were players actually getting good at the game and learning to play it. No matchmaker is gonna save you from that.

That is how businesses work yes. But The point he is making is that people didn't leave the queue in mass and nor did they stop paying. I doubt majority of players were like ewww i get rewarded for participating yuck I am so done. Especially in a system where there literally weren't any rewards for more then half a decade. So yeah, you have every right to spend your money how you want and I am pretty sure you have to be subbed to post here unless that changed but doubt it. But as someone who queues for both arenas and warzones the queues are doing just fine on SF.

I was thinking the same thing. Like the dude is just trying trigger people.

Lets get into this as well 1. Steam charts are not accurate at all for swtor. Most people actually use the launcher because well thats how its always been for them. It really doesn't. ESO is also a bad example because ESO has always been on steam, so when it cultivated its PC player base steam was a very popular method. 2. IDK pvp had survived this long with premades I am sure it will carry on. This health of pvp has no backing what so ever because we have always had premades and every other game does. Not letting people premade just gives players another reason to pick a different multiplayer game over swtor if we are just being real. Funny you bring up ESO, so believe it or not ESO actually has a super tiny pvp community. And the community is split between arenas and cyrodil. So Arenas tried getting rid of premades because the devs caved and listened to crying on the forums the que was literally dead over night. I am not exaggerating it went from 3 min avg queue time to 15-25 min. They reverted this change because it turns out majority of players play both solo and in groups. When their friends are on they group up when they are not they queue solo. That is something we never talk about, players dont belong in one camp or the other they shift through them often. 3. Zero evidence? You mean how basically every game lets premades and solo players play together? There is actually evidence that your change hurts pvp communities and doesn't let them develop because there wouldn't be a reason to group with other pvpers. This is horrible for a mmo. You want to know what makes pvp stickier when someone finds a group they like to play with log on and have fun. This is pretty common knowledge through data for various games look it up. Community investment = long term player and that player is more likely to become a sub. This is not rocket science. 4. Sure I think they could add some form of competitve mode or even event I am not opposed to that. I would love a thing like trials of osiris from destiny where maybe its turned on the weekends and it pushes players queue up. 5. So if you sit and AFK you will probably lose your games so there are plenty of negative effects. You will generally progress your gear slower, you complete your weeklies slower which means you get less tech frags, which means either less gear, less OEM's and less RPM's which means less augs or less making money. And for some players they give it their best and its not enough but participation rewards keep them coming and not feeling as bad. 6. We lost our vote kick privlage long time ago when we abused to kick players we didn't like, wanted to harrass and tank elo on, or just straight up bully. Sorry player policing is a joke. They already tried it and yeah it turned out to be bad for obvious reasons. 7. There is this weird notion that the ranked pvp community pvp's more then the rest of the game. Alot of ranked players also would get their elo and cheat there way to it really fast and just dip for the season and pop on here and there for a ranked queue. You know who was actually keeping pvp alive literally everyone else pvping in the other queues. And he i played ranked i enjoyed it but i am not going to pretend like we were this beating heart of pvp. In fact as a community we were very toxic and made it very hard for players to get into ranked. We made our own little guilds with the 5-6 people we like to play with and thats it, you never really saw a guild recruiting and teaching or building up a ranked squad. There was no such thing as a learning ranked team and so here we are clearly the data told them its not worth it. I miss it for sure but I also understand why its gone. 90% of the pvp player base didn't have to change a thing for seasons they queued up for warzones like they always did and now they get stuff for it. 8. I actually like the new trees. You know what got really old, every dps having a ton of dcds. Its a class based game and alot of the classes were really creeping into being their own trinity. Now I have to think about what I want to bring and such but honestly balance is just opinion and best for a different thread.

1. So now it goes from dont worry everyone is gonna quit. In other posts you have said it like its already happened i guess we are moving goal posts again. Because thats what honestly has been constantly said since 2012. It really gets old. 2. No response? Really? So they made adjustments to premade queue timers. Thats called a response sorry they didn't write a personal forum post just for you and maybe the 10?15? other people who post about it. They made changes to requirements for medals, adjusted point distros on maps, and even made seasonal changes to objectives. This is probably the most responsive they have ever been, 3. There are plenty of solo players who understand that they are solo and have been going against premades since launch. They don't care they have fun playing the game. You dont speak for all solo players. And the new players man if swtor is turn off for you as a new player then literally every other mmo is. This is such a strawman argument. WoW you need minimum of 4 addons, and go against premades. ESO you have to grind out a champion points system for your build, get the right set, learn the meta that changes every 3 months. Its also has different rules for cyrodil and arena. Like seriously if you ever turned on another mmo swtor has one of the lowest barriers to entry for pvp. 4. And as another person has brought up, companies look at data to determine when to make a change and clearly people enjoy playing the season. I just got out of 9 back to back warzones with a variety of different people and a total of 15-30 seconds between each pop. I don' think its dead in fact at this time of night it should be very quiet. Have you ever considered that maybe you are in the minority? 5. Also have you ever considered that you and those that constantly complain might not be that good at the game? Blame every loss or failure on premade when the other side probably doesn't have one. It couldn't be your play no not at all never couldnt be. Because here is the reality 99% of the time there isn't a full 8 stack in queue, According to you right, majority of the players are solo, and then we add on to the variable of a group being 8 people deep is low. Most premades run 4-5 people. Sometimes even less. So we really need stop pretending like there is this army of 8 player teams just rolling around all day everyday. 6. Step outside of your bubble, alot of big social guilds have started getting pvp nights and stuff together. Jesus I saw a club imperial premade in queue and they did alright. I see rp guilds getting together to get some pvp in. And these are people who never really cared to pvp and they are actually trying and turns out enjoyed themselves. So maybe that is what Bioware is seeing, increase social interaction = more commited players. In most cases a player is likely to stick to a game where they can find a group of players to play and now PvP has become something people are looking for groups for. Thats not a bad thing for this type of video game. There are multiple PvP guilds actually recruiting in SF. Maybe those data points is what bioware sees. You also have PvP popping off on twitch all the time some of the most viewed twitch streamers are queuing for pvp arenas and warzones and they are having fun. They play with alot of their viewers and have blast. It feels like alot of the times you just ignore every positive thing, its one thing to be critical but this is not being critical. You are just so in love with your narrative that you didn't stop to think maybe its not that bad. 7. Keep predicting it will die, or the pop will drop off. As long as the rewards are nice enough for people to play they will stay engaged. People stayed engaged when there was nothing. Remember that literally we got nothing for playing regs for years and years. To say people will stop playing when there is actually something to get is insane and makes no sense. If we could play all these years with nothing and now get something I think we will be fine.

I am addressing the conversation centered around solo queue and how it won't solve anything. The point I was trying to make is it doesn't matter if the pop is high or its low they generally follow the same matchmaking processes across the gaming sphere. And adding more variables to a queue only hurt a game with a smaller population. Will matchmaking feel better with more players yeah. Its a an unfortunate thing were the skill gap in a smaller pop game is going to feel worse. There isn't really a solution without put a certain group of people in a super long queue.

Tbh yeah but we can stop pretending like droves of people stopped playing. There wasn't this mass exodus of players because the reality was majority of the pvpers have been playing with 0 rewards for years. Oooo a battle pass came out so they all finally quit? Not even all the people who played ranked left, I literally see many of them not just once in a while but literally everyday in both queues. But I hope you find your solo queue game, I am sure its out there somewhere.

So here is the massive difference: 1. Nobody is saying you have to group up. 2. Bioware has given you the social tools to find people to play with and choosing not to use them i am afraid is on you. 3. Your solution basically leads to groups sitting in queue and not getting to play with their friends in a multiplayer role based game. 4. Your solutions have been attempted by other MMO's and have resulted in complete and utter failure. (ESO reverted those changes and FF14 still is a solo pvp experience). You can keep queueing solo but there needs to be an understanding that hey I am at a disadvantage here. Idk why this game has to make a unique system for regs to have separate queues this experience is literally the norm because getting people into matches in a descent time is super important. If my friends have 2 hours a night to play and 30-40 min is spent in a queueing we are going to play something else. Disincentivizing player to group and create social connections in an mmo is really silly from the dev team part. How is a pvp community supposed to start when everything is solo. If you want to keep playing solo do it, but why should I be punished for using the systems provided in finding a group to play with. Especially when you play tank like me or healer we are in a support role. Support roles are not as fun when you cant communicate with someone you are trying to support. There isn't a single matchmaking system on planet earth that is perfect or close to it. But you can tell the difference here when you queue as a group. We already have longer queue times and it tries to match people up. Was doing arena all weekend and we consistently matched with the 2-3 other premades in queue, was a pretty good time. Warzones I think is where it gets tougher. Its trying to do what it can with players its got. We are 2 seasons in and the queues are not dead and pop frequently at various points of the day, you literally can watch streamers at any time get matches in arena and warzones. I am still waiting for some data to be presented by you from another game that shows hey this is the way to go. Every role based game mixes solo and premades. - Valorent - Ranked is one queue and so is regs - Overwatch - Same thing - WoW - has solos and premades in BG queue (ranked has seperate queues but that is ranked not regs) - ESO - tried to do what you are asking for and pvp literally died to the point they had to revert it. - FF14 - Is solo queue pvp, do we even have to bring this joke of a pvp system up. - CoD, Halo, Gears of War - Premades and solo's in the same queue. - Destiny 2 - Ranked and regs solos and premades in the same queue (they even are advocating from removing sbm). So i am waiting for why should this game be any different? No data says thats the way to go at all. And those that did walk that path turned around.

I agree with you, i am just saying the shift makes sense. And ultimately we don't know how the backend of things look, maybe there was some issue that ranked brought up and there is alot that could have been going on internally. But I right there with you i think there is defiantly something they can do.

I think it makes sense why they went the full opposite direction. Which is lets reward people who are pvping anyway. It is kind of nice that we do get rewards for doing pvp before we literally got nothing outside of valor stuff. And this is the first of many steps it feels like, they now have pillar they want to maintain and when you have limit resources you are gonna go were the players are not where they could be. When you step back and break it down - We got rewards for participating in pvp - A new arena map - Adjustments to medals and maps - A season system that is actually keeping a cadence. Granted this might not be all perfect for everyones tastes as this forum has shown. But PvP is definitely on the radar in a way it has basically never been in a very long time. But to start it seems they are going with well lets make a system that benefits the most amount of players and honestly that is something they did. Matchmaking, premades etc. are all just levers that also got adjusted but maybe not where it needs to be but it is wild to see the map getting point changes. That I don't think has ever really happened. And is change gonna be super fast probably not, PvP is not the only group of players who have demands from the dev team so this position makes sense.

I agree on the missions front. But I don't think this makes the game any less desirable for me and alot of solid pvpers that play the game. Even WoW has been struggling at keeping a rated population. Yesterday at prime time I was a in a 30min bg queue before i got a pop for rated. Thats coming from a cross server queue top dog mmorpg. And even in their community you see discourse about 3v3 not being as popular as it was before. What I think would be cool is some sort of competitive system that is not like the old ones. MMO's are just not league of legends or dota. And they don't have to be, but what I think the genre could use is a shake up on aspirational pvp content which i do think the game could use and matter of fact almost every mmo could use a shakeup in. But it is nice to see more people getting involved in PvP. I have seen alot of players who never touched it actually enjoying it. And in terms of pops they are practically always going you literally see streamers on various servers at various times of day get pop after pop even for arena queue. But now that the some more people have been pulled in, some of those people might seek aspiring things to do. But only time will tell we are literally only on the 2nd season about to go into 3rd.

In fairness even when there was a ranked mode 99% of the player Bases attitude towards pvp wasn't any different. There was a point where winning warzones was how you progressed through the dailies and weeklies but there was huge outcry about that. So every time there is an incentive to win backlash often gets it changed. But comparing games like Rocket League and World of Tanks is not really a equal comparison because those games are sold on the idea of pvp. SWTOR on the other hand has a much larger PVE component in comparison. But rated was not in a healthy place for this game and didn't change how most players interacted with PvP. Those skill players the quit weren't even enough to keep a solo queue consistently popping through out a season so to say if they all were around matchmaking would be better or fixed is just not true. I think the reality is that SWTOR atm is just not that kind of game and if we are being really honest about it, it hasn't been in sometime. In terms of rated as well I think as a ranked community we didnt also do a great job growing our community. The vote to kicks, talking really insane amount of trash, telling people to never queue up. All that really didnt help. Not to mention the constant win trading and cheating that yes even very good players were taking part in. We often did not make guilds were people could join and get better it was either get gud or bugger off. I think its really easy to say Bioware should have done more but when you only have 30 people in queue and a good chunk of them are falling into bad behavior categories like what do you do? And I know alot of people especially ranked players may not like to hear that. With that said I do think there needs to be some system that rewards people for at least winning games. I dont see a place where a traditional ranked system exsists just because well there isn't interest then and there probably wouldn't be now. But it would be nice to get a currency, a level, or something that goes up with wins and down with loses through the season that is less harsh then traditional elo. Or maybe something more so along the lines of trials of osiris in destiny where players can compete to get wins in a row in a solo queue or something that is available at certian times. I think there is alot of interesting solutions out there that we could possibly see with time.

I would say yes and no to this. I do think the game can be a bit more challenging but that isn't going to happen for any mmo. Like they have all gotten easier at least swtor makes you level unlike ESO which brings everything down to you. But honestly that wouldn't really do much in pvp. For PvE yeah i think it would do wonders but PvP you have to learn all the class interactions, comp interactions, priority system of not just yours but everyone elses class. And games don't give someone the mindset of oh I want to get better. That really comes from the player, there are plenty of resources available to learn. I do think there is an answer out there for the learning issue but tbh I have yet to really see a game do it well. But SWTOR from a rotation and class perspective is not all that complicated. But I have never met a player in any game who was like "yeah i got good just by playing" to really get good at a game you gotta visit 3rd party for any game. I get the sentiment but usually someone who wants to get good puts the effort in. And if you dont well you wont. At this point I have just accepted that its just how gaming it is. And until something comes around and actually revolutionizes getting casual players into that mindset i am just gonna enjoy it for what it is. If someone logs in everyday and PvP's but doesnt get better and is still enjoying themselves all power to them its part of being in a social environment. But to kinda pull it back to the OP post about new players being pushed away. At this point if SWTOR is too complicated of an MMO to get into or inaccessible as a new player then that goes for literally every MMO. 1. WoW - You need an array of addons just to get all the right info, you then need to learn all the classes in's and out's with 0 tutorial help with your trait tree or skill priority. You also need to learn the details of every stun rotation since DR is a big part of that game. (this is probably one of the hardest pvp games to get into with all the addons and player skill gap). 2. ESO - You have make a build. Thats really hard for a new player and not only that you have to understand how to make the build or go to a 3rd party site to find one. You need to farm for all the right set bonus items and understand how it all comes together. The game literally teaches you almost nothing and since you can basically build for any role in any direction this gets very complicated. Unlike other games as well you will literally do no dmg to players with a bad build and then they will turn and 2 shot you. 3. GW2 - Action based/tab game but also has alot of build diversity. You literally can hop in at max level pvp at level 10 since gear doesn't matter but that is alot to take in and has alot of complexity to it. 4. New World - Once again an MMO that you will get 1 tapped if you don't build right or do 0 dmg if you build wrong. Have to grind up a water mark and literally can get locked out of WAR pvp if you don't know the right people. I could go on but what I am trying to say is that MMO's are generally complicated games to get into and especially legacy games that have been around for a long time. Should through destiny 2 up there, have you seen how complicated that game has gotten Guns + Armor + Mods + Aspects + Fragments + Ability choices + Exotic Choice + Stat Prio like jesus. But its kinda part of being an older game. None of these games teach a new player how to excel at the end-game. So to hold SWTOR to this standard of find a way is baffling. When getting into a new MMO PvP system getting your butt kicked is part of the process. Even in all those games a new player gets stomped by lack of knowledge, premades, etc. Can bioware add new tutorial systems and such sure. Is it going to raise the skill level of players...probably not. The will to get better comes from the player. All of these games are very easy to learn if the you put effort in. But if someone is willing to look stuff up for those games they can for SWTOR as well.

I think you are miss understanding what I am trying to say. I am not trying to advocate to ignore obj. I am saying the reason why player behavior is the way it is, because players join WZ to fight other players at its core. It is the main feature that ability to fight other players that seperates from literally the rest of the game. So yeah players that are good at spawn killing you or just farming for kills are gonna do it. They don't need a reward, they don't need a flair, or a queue. This behavior is in every game. There really isn't a solution for it. But if your team isn't good at killing people reaching the win condition does get harder. 99% of the time if those teams really wanted to meet the win condition they would when you see them all leave without capping it that is just their choice as a player. Idk how you can argue that being good at killing other players doesn't help you reach the win condition. If i kill all the player on a node we would most likely take the node. And even if that death squad is death matching and winning fights well there are only 8 people on the map maybe the remaining players should idk cap something? If their team is spending most of the match dead. But at the end of the day there isn't anything you can do about that player behavior. I am not saying that other parts liek capping nodes are not part of PvP, I am saying they are not the core reason people play PvP. I have never heard like said someone say "Man i really love the act of capturing a node on alderaan" or "God man did you see how awesome it was to watch me plant the bomb". No what people get hyped about "Bro watch me global this sorc" or "My mans lets double carb and delete this team." Those are things are important but those guys you see deathmatching thats what they are here for. They are here to fight other players, thats it. They want to show I can beat you at fighting you. Idk why that is such a controversial point. TBH idk what you can truly implement to change that behavior. I just kinda deal with it and move on, or join a group and change the course of the fight ourselves. But i also think the issue is well over blown. Alot of matches people just lose because well losing is part of the game.

Well for one you might be right about rated solo warzones maybe not. But there are also alot of players who just the idea of being rated is a turn off. This game has a very casual player base and i don't think rated arenas matter to alot of the player base even people who log into to pvp. Could it work sure but that is up to bioware. Now thanks for the insult you seem like such a reasonable person. I guess you can disagree with my assessment on PvP with all the facts you have lined up in your post or lack there of. But I think it is a pretty solid assumption to say what brings people into PvP is the ability to fight other players. I have never once heard someone say "Wow I just love capping and holding an objective." Objectives themselves add depth and purpose to the PvP experience. Fighting other players while also having to defend an objective is a bit more interesting then just killing. It gives you something to position around, makes maps more interesting, keeps the battles moving etc. Now you use the sports example well, I would make the argument that scoring in football gives the tackling and plays depth. But at its core its about showing off athleticism at various positions. And the UFC and War analogy at the end. Umm we are playing a game called star wars. You literally interact with 80% of the game with killing things. Is it really that much of a stretch to say in a PvP environment "Defeating other players is the core part of the PvP experience." It doesn't seem like a crazy thing to me. So in the context of this video game yeah it kind of is a war and we are literally shooting lightning, missiles, stabbing, and brutally killing each other. That is literally the entire gameplay loop of PvP. And those objectives get you and me to the same spot so we can do that. Also there is no need to insult someone or talk down to them I am just sharing my opinion like you are. At the end of the day our definitions of things don't matter since we don't make the game. Just so we don't lose the plot: 1. I do think that a ranked wz mode would be interesting to see if it works. 2. I do think that skill is a big issue in the premade shouting match that happens between the same 10 people on these forums. 3. Literally every other PvP game has these same issues. All I am saying from someone who plays alot of pvp not just in swtor but in alot of other mmo's as well. Just like you I am just sharing opinions and trying to enjoy the game.

reguardless if they are just damage farming, it doesnt matter if the players cant even do their rotation. Death ball onto the obj, death ball off of it its the same situation. You can farm the other team in literally any game if you are just that much better. We had ranked in the game and it was still an issue back then people complained up 4 stacks, but many peoples arguments do come from a place hey i got rolled match making be better. But the reality is that there is not enough players to keep breaking people out into queues and then even within those queues the skill disparity between players is very high. At least with the new changes they are encouraging people to death match at the obj. But no matter how you slice it the core of pvp is going to be about being better at killing the other player. And I am sorry if you are pulling insane insanely low dps its not gonna happen. We had rated, and it was pretty dead, were their people who enjoyed it yes I was one of them. But I won't pretend like it was in this amazing spot where I could just queue get matches, if my schedule irl throttle even a little you literally wouldn't get a pop. And even back then there were still people damage farming in warzones, there were still premades running around, etc. There isn't an actual solution to the issue. You know how you stop a team from farming? You kill them. Its that simple. And if you can't well then they are just better and that is how pvp just works. This isn't swtor specific, this is literally any pvp game. And a vast majority of people are not gonna wait super long queue times for those "perfect" matches which won't even be perfect matches. You got 2 hours to play in the evening you gonna sit in queue for most of it or hop on a game thats gets you in a game. Most people are just gonna want to get into the game. And as a solo player the power to inflict full change is going to be limited. It comes down to guild up and group up, and get better then them. Or at least get good enough to put up a fight if all else fails. "The good ones" ignore the objectives because people who love to pvp just hop onto pvp. They want to watch your hp bar hit 0. Objectives are really there to facilitate PvP not to prevent it. You can get farmed on obj or right outside the spawn but that is just PvP. Get farmed at your last point in WoW BG, Outside your keep in ESO or Arena Spawn, Spawn camped in GW2, in destiny etc. Pick the game and a team that is better at killing which is the core of the game is kill them and do it well. Its like if in PvE people started getting mad at people wanting to cheese a mechanic. "I want the experience of the mechanic" you would look silly saying that to the tank because the core of the experience is to beat the boss. And if there is a method to do it better players will take it. Yes the boss is not a player but the point I am making is that if you are not good at the core of the activity or want to participate in the core of an activity you are gonna have a bad time. And for PvP its killing other players and it turns out if you group up and communicate it gets easier to do that. Same thing for PvE yeah you can pug nim tfb but chances are it will go alot smoother if you are in a coordinated group.

There is also I think alot of L2P issue that gets ignored. No one likes to hear it but the reality is literally every single mmo hell practically every multiplayer game is like this. In WoW premades roll pure solo teams, ESO its the zergs and organized guilds, in GW2 its the groups as well, if we even shift genres you seen a team in cod or halo doing call outs, destiny premades are gonna do well. It is funny that we treat this like a special case for swtor. PVP is a place where there is a good chance you are gonna get rolled if you are just not up to snuff in play. Your win-rate is a reflection somewhat of you. I am talking about the players pulling 2-4k dps like every game. This is not a premade issue this is a skill issue. You will get rolled even if it was all solo queue because alot of the people in those premades take the game way more seriously then you do. For example when i solo queue i swap targets to people who have popped their dcds, arent guarded, cc the healer, and beat all the back peddling scrubs that are in queue. In fact, if you take premades away i am going to have a much easier time of it, when in eso made their battlegrounds solo queue only i had a field day on my nightblade, I could pick apart a whole team right next to each other in seconds while they did little to no dmg to me. (they ale reverted this change after like 6 months because solo queue actually killed the pvp experience). Players really need to look at themselves at some point. Because a solo queue isn't going to fix your 2k dps. Even when up against a premade and losing i am still able to finish within the top 3-5 people in dps and thats on a arsenal merc. Did I lose yes, but then i look at my team who have taken way less dmg then me and are all pulling 2-3k its like no wonder we lost. More players need to step up and learn the game. A matchmaker cant fix this problem with the player population we have, hell even WoW has the exact same issue. But can a matchmaker be better sure, but right now the issue the game is having is we have players who are really good and players who are really bad. We don't have alot of "average" players at the game which makes matches feel lobsided. Also learning the game does not make you hardcore. There is this idea that learning what the cooldowns are makes you this hardcore sweaty when that is just learning the basics of the game. PVP is not a turn your brain off mode 100%, you have to engage and at some point. Even if its only 30% of your brain and once you learn it well you can use less of the brain. But man there are some people who have been playing for 10 years and still pop all their cds at once and back peddle so idk.

On pts i got a 28.7k parse so i would say thats not too bad. Definitely better then it was before. But to say the changes aren't even close its like...what do you want arsenal to parse at?

So i am just gonna ignore all of the insulting and just comment on this. So while the gearing systems may not be perfect in the game and defiantly can be better, this idea that people are turned off by content kinda makes no sense. 1. Crazy new grinds? Like what 2 battle passes? A gear grind that if anyone has played more then one mmo would know is actually not that bad. Like in FF a returning player has to play over 150+ hours of story at this point to just reach the end-game. Also their gear is very very simplified, there are no specs or build diversity. WoW hehe grinding out mythic+ is tough and alot of work. So this idea that SWTOR has this like standout grind is kinda silly. Like if that is a turn off then the MMO genre as a whole must be turn off at this point. Even in GW2 you gotta put in some pretty good effort for ascendent gear, in ESO you have to grind sets and champion points, in new world you have to get that water mark up. So i doubt someone who turns on the game is like ahhhh a battle pass back to my WoW grind. Also those games make you re grind every raid tier swtor does not. 2. PvP in other mmo's is also a grind. If you are not geared in WoW you gonna feel it. FF...pvp hhahahah okay. ESO dont have the right sets, potions, and glyphs have fun doing 0 dmg to that dragonknight with major protection buff, GW2 (this game has literally 0 gear grind so give you that one), New World you will get bodied if you dont grind. Sorry you have to participate in the game to gear up for pvp just like other games. Yeah you will feel the pain when you have less gear then others thats just how rpg's work. 3. SWTOR is no where near a lifer mmo. There aren't crazy grinds that require hour hours and hours of grind. You can literally get into a HM EV or KP run every week and make solid progress. But reaching 336 is super easy and you only have to do it once and then you get the mods. But if you are that deep in you should have been learning the systems. I do think the gearing isn't perfect but its not a no life grind by any means. You could even argue that it should more content to do before lockouts. 4. And look if those people got turned away by these things well then most mmo's should also turn them away. If you decide to dip for long periods of time you are gonna fall behind to some degree that is the nature of these games sure there are some catch up mechanics here and there but you are gonna have to put in the leg work. This game is already pretty chill and casual.

halted offensive got a buff, stormwatch has 100% up time now, and now they got another buff to lightning flash. I would say they gotta a pretty solid buff.

Its almost like its not the defacto pve choice. Having movement speed was really nice to avoid mechanics, reposition etc. But to say its the defacto pve choice is not accurate as another poster has said. If you like to take it in PvE thats awesome and nothing wrong with that. But to say its "the pve choice" is not true. There are many fights where movement speed is clutch and you have to move alot. Great you time the mechanic perfectly or i can just be faster and get another shot in etc. Or i am playing engineering and i already have enough aoe cleave. If adds are a huge issue on a pull there are plenty of ability mods on the tree i can swap to for that pull but i am having to move alot more then cleaving adds down tbh. But thats the magic of tree right. But its not a auto pve pick for many people.