Credit Economy Initiative beginning with 7.2.1

[ZUHFB]

1 hour ago, microstyles said:

Credit sellers would find a way around it. They could use mail or have the credit buyer put up 1b meat trees on the GTN.

this also already happened, while I cannot remember the exact name, there is a decoration from gree event that for whatever reason is not bound and was used to transfer large quantities of credits. Why that specific thing? And who? I have no idea, I just know that lamp made me 2b when 2b were still a lot. 

[microstyles]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

Mail is tracked and unusual GTN purchases can also be detected in the game logs. Bioware has the tools they need, they just need to prioritize it

Sure but the same could be said for trades right now, correct?

1 hour ago, DWho said:

You need to take down the buyers as well (make it a bigger risk to buy credits)

Yeah I've wondered why bioware doesn't do this. It would be easy easier than trying to stop sellers, and buying stuff from third parties is already against their TOS I believe. 

I'd like to see that as part of their economy changes. Something like "We haven't taken much action against players buying from third parties over the years, but starting <date> we will start cracking down." 

Even if they do literally nothing after that I think that would make a lot of people think twice, at least for a while.

[Asacledhae]

3 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

You might not remember how the game was back then. QT credits will be nothing and taxi was not the issue. What made the credit sink back then was you had to pay to learn your skills and every level up of them. So when you reached level 50 back then,"endgame" depending on how much you did you barely could learn all the skills and had maye 10k credits left or had to play more time as level 50 to learn all the skills.

People making a big fuss over a very few credits of qt makes no sense, when those ideas will do nothing for inflation for ACTUAL players and not bots

Oh I do remember, trust me. All those "penalties" were one of the many reasons (alongside broken gameplay) that ended up in the mass exodus of the majority of players, before the first server merging. I even remember the queues you had in order to enter the game, and how broken those were.

Yes, I will keep making a fuss out of that cost, simply cause it's unfair, and punishes people for actually playing the game. The real problem is the gold sellers, and how they inflate the GTN, in order to keep running their business. THAT is what BioWare has to stop instead of punishing gameplay.

 

My friend, I have examples of people who simply log into the game, for casual play, Role Play, Exploration, and they don't have enough credits to spare, simply cause they find "endgame" repetitive and tedious to do. I play this game since early access, and trust me, I'm not someone who has 500 billion credits to my account. I go by with what I get from story mode/solo flashpoints. So yes, this affects me as well, cause unlike these inflators, i do NOT have credits to spare.

With all those added prices, do you think people will keep playing the game, or move on to something else? SWTOR isn't exactly a spring chicken anymore, is it!

[Achnaattwo]

21 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

What does the Ceevo amount matter? It’s supposed to be an achievement to hit 10 million. If people just get someone to transfer them 10 million to get it, it’s not really an achievement, is it 😉

it can only be achieved by Subscribers  anyway.  just saying 😑

who wants 9 million+ go to escrow ? that's more expensive to get back

=-=-=-=-=-

Kinda late to adding more cost to Travel. Who ever came up with this idea must believe everyone has billions. Not realizing some players just play the game.

I mean it looks like they're trying to get rid of Solo players, non-subscribers, and players that don't Play the GTN/Traders

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, microstyles said:

Sure but the same could be said for trades right now, correct?

Yeah I've wondered why bioware doesn't do this. It would be easy easier than trying to stop sellers, and buying stuff from third parties is already against their TOS I believe. 

I'd like to see that as part of their economy changes. Something like "We haven't taken much action against players buying from third parties over the years, but starting <date> we will start cracking down." 

Even if they do literally nothing after that I think that would make a lot of people think twice, at least for a while.

How do we know they don’t take down the buyers too? 

[OlBuzzard]

23 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

How do we know they don’t take down the buyers too? 

The same way that we know that credit sellers have been taken care in the first place!

I sense that dark, sinister creature dressed in black moving about unabated ...  looking coldly over his domain to be!  The darkest of times or not? Wisdom?  Or foolishness and folly?

Time will be its own master in decerning what will come!  How do we shape the matter in the end?

Edited February 16, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[DWho]

38 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

How do we know they don’t take down the buyers too? 

The very first thing players who get punished by Bioware do is go to Reddit or Discord and proclaim their innocence and tell everyone how unfair it was that they were singled out for punishment for something "everyone" does. People confess to all sorts of things on Discord and are especially proud if they get away with it. If Bioware wanted to nail a lot of the hackers and cheaters, a couple of nights on the right Discord channel would give them plenty to punish. There is no ban on naming and shaming there.

[TrixxieTriss]

18 minutes ago, DWho said:

The very first thing players who get punished by Bioware do is go to Reddit or Discord and proclaim their innocence and tell everyone how unfair it was that they were singled out for punishment for something "everyone" does. People confess to all sorts of things on Discord and are especially proud if they get away with it. If Bioware wanted to nail a lot of the hackers and cheaters, a couple of nights on the right Discord channel would give them plenty to punish. There is no ban on naming and shaming there.

Surely they must take down some low hanging fruit buyers who don’t spill their guts online cause they’re ashamed 🤷🏻‍♀️ Otherwise, where is the deterrent?

If BioWare aren’t doing this, then they are also part of the credit seller problem 🤦‍♀️

Of course BioWare won’t confirm or deny players being banned because they have this strange policy to protect cheats in swtor 🤷🏻‍♀️

Where just about every other game I play calls out the cheats (not necessarily by name) because it acts as a deterrent to stop the majority cheating the system (be it hacks or currency buying). 

If BioWare had followed a similar system of saying we caught “X” number of credit buyers, hackers or exploiters this month/quarter. And banned them & took all their stuff, it would have acted as a deterrent & they would have had less people doing it over time & not required many resources to police it. 

It’s the one BioWare policy that’s always baffled me. Even to the point of banning players trying to bring attention to those that cheat. Like BioWare actively protected the cheats by silencing everyone else. Just 🤯

[OlBuzzard]

15 minutes ago, DWho said:

The very first thing players who get punished by Bioware do is go to Reddit or Discord and proclaim their innocence and tell everyone how unfair it was that they were singled out for punishment for something "everyone" does. People confess to all sorts of things on Discord and are especially proud if they get away with it. If Bioware wanted to nail a lot of the hackers and cheaters, a couple of nights on the right Discord channel would give them plenty to punish. There is no ban on naming and shaming there.

Somehow, I doubt the depth of their ignorance in the matter.  But rather a number of choices along the way have yielded yet another unexpected harvest.  This time:  not of good will and kindness but rather a sorely distasteful bumper crop filled with the agony of many looking for answers that, in reality, may not so easily found by now!

It almost goes without saying that knowledge without sound application does not yield wisdom.  Hopefully, the solution that we will see will be more than just penance done by the masses to atone for the conduct of others.  It needs to be rather an appropriate, decisive action meant to effectively diminish the impact of said actions which has created this mess in the first place.  In the end ... hopefully, in the course of things the resolution will at last prevent things from getting out of hand in the future!

Just my $.02 for now!

[TrixxieTriss]

5 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Somehow, I doubt the depth of their ignorance in the matter.  But rather a number of choices along the way have yielded yet another unexpected harvest.  This time:  not of good will and kindness but rather a sorely distasteful bumper crop filled with the agony of many looking for answers that, in reality, may not so easily found by now!

It almost goes without saying that knowledge without sound application does not yield wisdom.  Hopefully, the solution that we will see will be more than just penance done by the masses to atone for the conduct of others.  It needs to be rather an appropriate, decisive action meant to effectively diminish the impact of said actions which has created this mess in the first place.  In the end ... hopefully, in the course of things the resolution will at last prevent things from getting out of hand in the future!

Just my $.02 for now!

I don’t know if you did it on purpose. But that post was poetic 🤩

[OlBuzzard]

18 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I don’t know if you did it on purpose. But that post was poetic 🤩

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7XfyyKYxnU

[Blakinik]

I'm going to ask a pointed question because I think we need a pointed answer.

@EricMusco and @JackieKo - Could you tell us how many credits are "out there" and how many are generated per hour / day / minute / second / whatever time frame?

Reason I ask is that I read Eric's response and he is saying its credit generation.  YES - that is part of the problem, but it is PART OF THE PROBLEM.  The other part is the fact that the transfer payments primarily through CM sales from P2P is enabling those at the top to stay at the top causing an ever growing death spiral of inflation.  You mentioned that there is an abundance of credits being generated but don't say how much.  Would love to know the scope of the problem.

BTW - I get he problem you are facing too.  If you do anything to buck the top tier (aka "Whales") of CM purchasers, they likely have a disproportionate impact on revenue generation on that revenue stream.  I'm sure that is also a significant portion as it feels like you are moving more reasons for subs to less incentives to sub (aka raising credit limits, expansion of content, etc.).  All that I am fine with btw - just saying is I get the problem you are facing and the hosed either way you move problem.

I noticed you seemed to be opposed to 1-off high credit amount credit sinks, but what actions are you taking in other to bring about some parity in rich vs poor in the game?  I'll be 100% honest in that I have bene playing since the start of the game and I only have a few billion credits.  I use the word "only" because I can tell you even at that level It feels like I am still poor.  If I feel poor over the 1 billion mark when I see prices out there, what does someone starting that is trying to save for a new stronghold feels like?  I seriously wonder how many people just cut the losses and go move onto some other game...

[OlBuzzard]

I do not believe that this is RICH vs POOR..  Although both have been caught in the middle and the one now frowns upon the other.  Both are being used.  Neither will be helped at our current perception and reaction.  The focus on the resolution needs to reflect more on the causation ... not aimed at those caught on either side of the division.

While this may seem somewhat cryptic ... it is not! 

Can frustration lead to suffering too?

[microstyles]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

How do we know they don’t take down the buyers too?

Good question, I suppose I don't. I assume they don't because if they did people might think twice about buying and putting their accounts at risk. Given how crazy the credit inflation has been I figured people were buying with impunity. I could be wrong tho.

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

If BioWare had followed a similar system of saying we caught “X” number of credit buyers, hackers or exploiters this month/quarter. And banned them & took all their stuff, it would have acted as a deterrent & they would have had less people doing it over time & not required many resources to police it. 

Something like this would be great. Hopefully they have something planned.

[TrixxieTriss]

59 minutes ago, microstyles said:

Something like this would be great. Hopefully they have something planned.

In the 11 years of this game I can only remember a handful of times they’ve reported on banning players & that was several years ago to do with credit exploits. So I can’t see them changing course & doing this even if they have banned some for credit buying. Of course I’d love BioWare to prove me wrong on this. 

[OlBuzzard]

21 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

In the 11 years of this game I can only remember a handful of times they’ve reported on banning players & that was several years ago to do with credit exploits. So I can’t see them changing course & doing this even if they have banned some for credit buying. Of course I’d love BioWare to prove me wrong on this. 

The answers seem illusive.  But they are not!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=babylon+5+ambassador+kosh+you+have+forgotten+something&view=detail&mid=FF23BF10B983817F9192FF23BF10B983817F9192&FORM=VIRE

The truth points to itself!  Inside of the question ... you will also find the answer!  The power, the authority and (as much as anything) the ability.

 

[elimatorxv]

there should not be a cost on quick travel nor stronghold travel period.

[Gibonski]

1 hour ago, elimatorxv said:

there should not be a cost on quick travel nor stronghold travel period.

It is not about traveling to stronghold. It is the switching of planets that will cost you, which is absolutely normal. if you travel from Fleet to say Alderaan, it costs you a certain amount.

 

It will now cost you to exit area from Alderaan stronghold to Alderaan, if you travelled to it from different location, like Fleet for example. If you exit to fleet there will be no cost. At least that is what @EricMuscoexplained.

[Heliask]

There is a fundamental issue. Devs seem to think that the game generates too many credits. That may be or have been so, but it's certainly not the case with basic story and exploration gameplay. You don't get rich with missions. You get rich by selling some stuff in a economy hyper inflated. But only some players buy and sell, not all. Hence it's particularly unfair to hit casual players hard for a fortune in generated credits they don't have. 

The solution to control prices is simply to deflate them by offering necessary items at decent prices via vendors (many more basic crafting mats for instance could be sold by the Fleet vendor), and create credit sinks, whatever they might be, for the fortunate players. You can't have prices going crazy if you got the poors covered with some big obvious vendors for basic and safe appreciation of the game in all its aspects, and rich taken care of with big enterprises to fund. 

"But credit sinks are not eternal" : yes, you will have some who have accomplished everything, but then again they won't be able to fool the market if enough items have controlled prices. 

Another solution would be to make it possible to buy other currencies with credits. It could definitely remove lots of credits from the game in order to get some items. These items would get more common. Prices would decrease. 

[Heliask]

Deleting 100 k on everyone every week is a very good credit sink. Of course, it is also an excellent way to make many humble players leave, as you seem to have noticed. Or they will turn to cheating, paying to win, speculation, as anyway the system will have proven how biased and unfair it is and people won't certainly respect it anymore that they do now. 

 

As for crafting, a mere look at the GTN on my server the Leviathan is enough to rethink about how "free " it is. Of course one could argue that every good feature in this game should be reserved to people who don't have a life other than farming or to people who buy credits. But I know for a fact and from experience that NPCs vendors can and do rein in the GTN prices. 

 

[Heliask]

If it is dead then it should be merged. If it's not, surely the goal is to keep it alive. That's what me and others are doing. We don't need your contemptuous input. We need people who care about the game, all its players and all its servers.

 

And besides, i also have a legacy level 50 on Malgus, so I know well how the economy worked there. I'm not here to be insulted by people who confuse toxicity and arrogance with helpful advice and warnings. 

[Traceguy]

6 hours ago, Heliask said:

Another solution would be to make it possible to buy other currencies with credits. It could definitely remove lots of credits from the game in order to get some items. These items would get more common. Prices would decrease. 

This shouldn't even be a problem. Get rid of the asinine currencies and use credits. Get rid of tech frags. Goodbye paying 3500 tech frags for an implant upgrade, and hello 35,000,000 credit price tag.

 

abolish: FP-1s, OP-1s, CQ Comms, DRMs, R4 tokens, Tech Frags... Use credits! We have inflation because bioware doesn't let us use our credits in end game. Once you're in endgame, 99% of your purchases are done using a currency other than credits.

ETA: Get rid of the scrap currencies. Open the Jawa traders to credit trades.

Get rid of the Legacy Birthright Kits, open those vendors up to credits. You can't even get a LBK these days anyways.

Get rid of the LS/DS tokens. Open those vendors up to credits.

Get rid of or just flat out sell GS tokens.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Traceguy

[Traceguy]

8 hours ago, Gibonski said:

It will now cost you to exit area from Alderaan stronghold to Alderaan, if you travelled to it from different location, like Fleet for example. If you exit to fleet there will be no cost. At least that is what @EricMuscoexplained.

I don't have the except number, but let's say for the sake of things the Alderaan stronghold costs $10,000,000 to unlock. I think after that many credits, you deserve to go to Alderaan for free. Let's pretend the current cost to QT to Alderaan is 2000 credits. Buying the Alderaan SH would be the equivalent to paying to travel to Alderaan 5,000 times.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Traceguy

[WHTJunior]

48 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

I don't have the except number, but let's say for the sake of things the Alderaan stronghold costs $10,000,000 to unlock. I think after that many credits, you deserve to go to Alderaan for free. Let's pretend the current cost to QT to Alderaan is 2000 credits. Buying the Alderaan SH would be the equivalent to paying to travel to Alderaan 5,000 times.

I mean, you're not actually teleporting there, right? There's upkeep on your ship, fuel, food, etc, for the trip there. That's how I see the travel costs. In the scenario for Strongholds, though, Eric does give the initial jump to SH a free pass, because you could then pop back to where you were, as if you didn't actually travel there. Once you decide to go to a planet, though, travel costs would apply.

[VegaMist]

20 minutes ago, WHTJunior said:

I mean, you're not actually teleporting there, right? There's upkeep on your ship, fuel, food, etc, for the trip there. That's how I see the travel costs. In the scenario for Strongholds, though, Eric does give the initial jump to SH a free pass, because you could then pop back to where you were, as if you didn't actually travel there. Once you decide to go to a planet, though, travel costs would apply.

So, it becomes false advertisement (or at a minimum, bait-and-switch). When we acquired strongholds (which many did using CC), being able to use it for travel was one of the perks. And now they are proposing to change the rules. And with QT charges, they will affect mostly the new and poor players financially, but the pop-up, asking if you want to proceed every time you try to use it, will annoy the hell out of everyone. No wonder so many people reacted negatively. Really hoping Bioware takes a notice and doesn't go through with these changes (though considering their track record, that hope might be in vain).