7.0 'expansion' = pure disaster ...We told You so ! .....and you where stubborn

[LJ_Gibbs]

The unsub button is right at the bottom of the page. You have to scroll right down to see it. Of course they made it as hard as possible to find it, but it is there.

 

Mine wasn't there until I deleted the saved credit card on my account. So, in part, OP was right.

[Totemdancer]

Mine wasn't there until I deleted the saved credit card on my account. So, in part, OP was right.

 

Must have changed it since yesterday when I unsubbed mine. Didn’t Blizzard pull some sort of rubbish like this after their last expansion to stop people unsubbing? You had to ring CS to cancel your sub?

Edited February 18, 2022 by Totemdancer

[robwettengel]

Until further notice, I will not be purchasing anymore CC.

 

I am willing to see this whole cluster as a result of the continuing pandemic, but only to an extent. However, there are still some questions that need to be answered, which I doubt we will ever get answers for at this point.

 

When was it decided to prune abilities, thereby triggering the need to rebalance the entire game?

 

Because of the buggy shape of the new content with needing to go to Fleet to be able to then click on the now-visible launch button for the next phase of the Manaan content. Further evidence is the Elom FP's map which wouldn't even indicate an approximate area for where the keystones could be found. These glaring errors obviously reveal that QA was primarily focused on ensuring that the old content was properly rebalanced. This could also explain why the new content was so short, as the longer the new content was the likely greater number of bugs there would be because, obviously, most of their resources were being invested in rebalancing all of the prior 7.0 content.

 

The time of the Devs was mainly backward-looking to conduct the rebalancing and playtesting--they likely went through several iterations of internal testing that we will likely never be made privy to until they put their finished product up on PTS for us to experience.

 

We were told that the reasons for the ability pruning was because of Time-To-Kill being too long in PvP.

 

First, we were just told this without any hard data to back it up. So they give themselves this staggering about of rebalancing work to do instead of possibly taking an easier route: separate PvE and PVP. We already know that the game engine can block certain abilities from being used in WZ's (rocket boost for example). Why couldn't the same have been done for Force Slow and other defensive abilities? Instead, the Devs just axed them. I mostly only play Sorcs so my primary class wasn't hit that badly, but I am aware from the PTS and now live that other classes really took it on the chin.

 

Say Power 1 does X damage / lasts for X seconds in PvE. Why can't it do Y damage / last for Y seconds in PVP? Is it an engine limitation? If certain abilities can be disabled from being used, the ability to have abilities act differently in PvE and PvP already exists. Why can't it be expanded so not only is rocket boost unable to be used in PvP but DCDs have their duration reduced by X% just in PVP? Isn't this a lot easier to do than having to rebalance the whole game?

 

Why is the gearing system still being radically overhauled?

 

The game is a decade old. Shouldn't we have a gearing system set in carbonite by now? PICK A DAMN METHOD AND KEEP IT! We go from 6.0 where gear rained down upon us to 7.0 where there is no loot but XP rains down on us and you go from 75 to 80 running the short story on Manaan. By now we should have had a set system and the only task necessary would be to determine how many new gear tiers there would be with each lvl cap increase, what their stats would be and getting the art department to design the icons for them and adding new vendors onto Fleet somewhere. Why do the Dev's just want to pile on more and more needless work? Did they come up with these changes or were they foisted upon them by higher-ups at BW, and/or EA?

 

I recall many of us cautioning them on PTS that they don't have enough time to have everything adequately tested. For goals of such ambition, the Devs should have gotten to work on refiguring the gearing system (yet again. Who truly knows why?) and game relancing because of removing abilities two years ago. They have also spoken of a graphical upgrade--going over all the old content and upping the textures and whatever (I am a historian, not a programmer) to get them up to the quality 6.0+ content. More backward-looking development time. I wouldn't be expecting much more story until Q4.

[Raansu]

Must have changed it since yesterday when I unsubbed mine. Didn’t Blizzard pull some sort of rubbish like this after their last expansion to stop people unsubbing? You had to ring CS to cancel your sub?

 

Its probably a browser issue. Its in the bottom right where its always at for me.

[Totemdancer]

Even the media is dumping on swtor and they are usually pretty positive towards the game.

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/star-wars-the-old-republics-legacy-of-the-sith-expansion-has-gone-down-like-the-holiday-special/

 

I tried posting this pcgamer link on Reddit under r/games and it was removed because they said it broke the rule of using sensationalised title. Even though it used the exact title that pcgamer gave it and apparently that is within the rules.

 

Upon trying to repost it under a different title, it says that links can’t be double posted even though the original has been removed it is blocking this article from being put on Reddit,

 

Starting to wonder if EA/Bioware are using their influence to run damage control on other platforms like Reddit and steam. If so, it won’t be long till they start deleting our posts here too.

 

Edit: lolz, someone found a work around and posted it from the Australian version of pcgamer. Let’s see how quickly that one gets removed.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Totemdancer

[Rolodome]

Starting to wonder if EA/Bioware are using their influence to run damage control on other platforms like Reddit and steam. If so, it won’t be long till they start deleting our posts here too.

The thing about reddit is it's technically not supposed to have staff from games like this running subs, but it's not like anyone can stop a mod from taking instructions under the table. Plus there are so many power tripping mods on that platform, it's easy to believe such a thing could be the actions of one rather than company influence, which would make it even easier to hide if there was company influence, since people will tend to just assume it's a power tripping mod.

[SternSgtRex]

The release of this 'expansion' really does seem to be the final indication that SWTOR is dying a slow, painful, and seemingly inevitable death. I have some truly awesome memories from this game and it's the best MMO I've ever played... but it's not the game it used to be. Star Wars is as popular as it as ever been but SWTOR seems to be on the same path of being abandoned to time as other MMOs before it, replaced by the bright and shiny new thing, whatever that may be.

 

What I would give to go back to late 2014 when this beauty came out...

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Shadow_of_Revan?file=Shadow_of_Revan_art.png

[Totemdancer]

 

What I would give to go back to late 2014 when this beauty came out...

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic:_Shadow_of_Revan?file=Shadow_of_Revan_art.png

 

I prefer 2012, but I would like that too.

 

Discussion is picking up in r/games on Reddit :

[Lady_Constance]

In a world where FEELINGS mean more than facts there was never any chance that the ProGGieZ were gonna listen to a bunch of "UzerZ". Sad. .. This was a reasonably fun game with a great set of stories. Okay, enough commiseration. Facts of my experience on one of my maxed out (306 IL) t00nZ. ==> Literally every fight I had the lag went into the red and the game slowed to a point that I would be in jeopardy of surviving. That wasn't just boss fights, though those were worse (lag holes got up to 22 seconds in a couple of cases). Fights with trash was the same way. Now having said that the wife was able to play through and seemed okay. We both have the same Anti-Virus and we are on a mesh network (router) with 300 up and 300 down. I got past the UI changes. I didn't care for them much, but I did finally figure them out (no help to the game itself - Thanks VULKK. IMHO people who alter a known interface should AT THE VERY LEAST provide a link to some kind of an overview how the replacement interface works. After speaking further with the wife she did have problems, but they were different from mine. After going over them it was mostly (again IMHO) because she was ranged and I was melee. Now the story was indeed compelling and perhaps that is what really has me upset. I was given a glimpse of something quite enticing and then provided with a painful experience which ultimately denied me the chance to complete that story. Bottom line - they have 2 weeks to get this ... "mess" cleaned up. If not, well, I guess I can cancel two subscriptions and my wife and I can do something else with our time. perhaps even something productive.

 

Please learn to section your wall of text.

[JojoKasei]

At this point I'd settle for a revert to the old UI (all windows and icons and else, no tricks!) as well as not forcing players to choose between important abilities. Make the choices stuff AROUND those, like "which of those abilities do you want to buff?", not "which of those three you had previously and all used do you want to keep?". They did this in the lower levels for some core attacks and I really like it. Then fix the bugs.

That's all I am asking for, personally.

[Rolodome]

Sometimes you just got to grow up and accept the changes.

Tell that to the people getting migraines from the new UI, you thoughtless _

[Raansu]

I prefer 2012, but I would like that too.

 

Discussion is picking up in r/games on Reddit :

 

OP's reply to the top post on that thread

 

The “new” poorly design UI, the changed font and overly highlighted borders that are smaller are actually causing some players physical stress with migraines, headaches and eye strain.

 

This is me to a T. It hurts my eyes and actually makes me a little dizzy/nauseous if I look at the inventory window for too long. Its absolutely awful with its black box surrounded by a ridiculously high contrast border. What was wrong with the old inventory window? I don't understand why they thought they needed to change the UI at all. The old window looked perfectly fine and fit the theme of the game well and was easy to look at. Everything is just a confusing *********** mess now and hurts to look at.

[Calidge]

The really interesting thing is the number of people offended by the complaints. Apparently, someone is standing behind them and forcing them to read the complaint threads.

 

If you're happy with the game, by all means, play away.

 

Insulting people you disagree with.... well, the BW apoiogists are running true to form.

[Jedi_riches]

OP's reply to the top post on that thread

 

 

 

This is me to a T. It hurts my eyes and actually makes me a little dizzy/nauseous if I look at the inventory window for too long. Its absolutely awful with its black box surrounded by a ridiculously high contrast border. What was wrong with the old inventory window? I don't understand why they thought they needed to change the UI at all. The old window looked perfectly fine and fit the theme of the game well and was easy to look at. Everything is just a confusing *********** mess now and hurts to look at.

Yeah the new inventory menu makes me feel terrible too, the old contrast was much better.

[ChaosIsGolden]

What do you expect from the TikTok generation? It's all "look at me". 😂

 

 

Not really, I've been playing games since FF7, and sorry, but I expect a certain level of quality. 7.0 is pretty on que for Anthem's quality of release. This tells me MELE was a fluke or made by a group at Bioware that cared, and even that wasn't perfect since modders have perfected it.

[midianlord]

Just as an aside....

 

....

 

Where are all the simps/defenders/White knights/call em what you will?

 

They seem strangely quiet this time around. Well, a lot quieter than they normally used to be, at least.

 

I wasn't around for SW: Galaxies' NGE, but the EVE Online Incarna debacle and the slow but sure death-by-Dunning-Kruger of Wildstar, along with a dash of FFXIV 1.0 are all of a sudden fresher in my memory than they've been in a long time.

 

The dual classes are the only genuinely good thing from this expansion, and that's mostly because I can use stealth on my mains to clear all the unending stupid trash mobs *********** everywhere in this game...But this "expansion" doesn't even allow that:

 

Scripted spawn, at range, pulls you into combat even when cloaked, because we all loved that so much in KotFEET, right? Right? Um...Guys? Right, guys?

 

The dev-acount shilling was kinda pathetically amusing though, at least. I kinda miss that, tbh. Like an old familiar social disease.

Edited February 18, 2022 by midianlord

[kirorx]

WOW. so much salt and whining. I have played on and off for years and I am enoying the new SWTOR. I have had zero issues so far with 5 chars. I am not saying there are not problems, but there are far too many kiddies complaining on this forum.

 

If you want to quit because of the change, just quit. Coming on to this forum and turning on the virtual tears and drama just makes you look a bit childish. If the game was left the way it started, it would stagnate and go off. Seems alot of people do not like change, tough

 

It's good to grow and evolve. Sure, they maye be some changes that you do not like. Sometimes you just got to grow up and accept the changes.

 

I agree with you to a point; but having played both storylines now and in each one the last boss keeps Bugging out and sending my character through the floor, some of the complaints are valid. When a bug is preventing you from completing the storyline and there is zero communication from the Devs, that is a problem.

[Spexius]

When a bug is preventing you from completing the storyline and there is zero communication from the Devs, that is a problem.

They do update the list of known bugs, and it grows and grows ...

 

Quite a lot of these bugs you can see very fast yourself without doing much. That is the type of bug which should be catched by any developer as part of development, before it even hits testers of any kind.

[Calidge]

That is the type of bug which should be catched by any developer as part of development, before it even hits testers of any kind.

 

We ARE the testing group for SWTOR.

 

And the word is "caught," not "catched"

[Saacius]

Definitely an NGE tier update, an absolute disaster in every aspect.

 

Classes feel worse to play, the story was terrible, the UI is genuinely the worst I've ever seen in my 20 year history of mmos, the "HUGE STORY FIGHT" epic moment was broken with bugs, some players haven't even been able to get into game and BioWare is sitting quietly in a corner with no word on any of this watching the community burn lmao.

[Giberelina]

I am a pvper. As such, I can live with the pain in my eyes from the new UI, I don't care that the story is short, or other disasters of this expansion.

 

The main problem that we cannot get back from is all the ABSURD ability pruning. All these skills were the most fun to play with in pvp, and they removed it, why....? Because they think players are too stupid to use them? I don't know why, it doesn't make sense. Now the game looks like is going to be a generic asian MMO with 5 dps awesome buttons and nothing more.

It is pretty boring, I don't play SWTOR for this, I like CCs, gap closers, kitting, objectives, etc. If I wanted to be playing a mindless game I would be playing these new shinny action based MMOs.

 

But I guess there is no love for what SWTOR used to be, not from current Bioware anyway.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Giberelina

[Raansu]

I am a pvper. As such, I can live with the pain in my eyes from the new UI, I don't care that the story is short, or other disasters of this expansion.

 

The main problem that we cannot get back from is all the ABSURD ability pruning. All these skills were the most fun to play with in pvp, and they removed it, why....? Because they think players are too stupid to use them? I don't know why, it doesn't make sense. Now the game looks like is going to be a generic asian MMO with 5 dps awesome buttons and nothing more.

It is pretty boring, I don't play SWTOR for this, I like CCs, gap closers, kitting, objectives, etc. If I wanted to be playing a mindless game I would be playing these new shinny action based MMOs.

 

But I guess there is no love for what SWTOR used to be, not from current Bioware anyway.

 

Ability pruning for the most part is pretty stupid. They can reduce this game down to 3 skill and the clickers and general bad players will continue to be bad, but sadly we have to suffer for it.

[Nee-Elder]

Ability pruning for the most part is pretty stupid. They can reduce this game down to 3 skill and the clickers and general bad players will continue to be bad, but sadly we have to suffer for it.

 

Bingo ^ , and therein lies the deeper problem imo: How do you "balance" a 10-year-old game when so many humans now are imbalanced ? (both in skill & mindset)

 

Answer: You can't , so don't even bother trying to cater toward the lowest common denominator. The game is already instanced AND riddled with transient F2Players (which isn't so much "Free" To Play as it is free-to-PAY-for-shiney-CARTEL-Market-Re-Skins x infinity) , so instead they BioWare should've just left combat & gearing in 6.0 mode and focused strictly on content ....whilst doing true "expansion" by enhancing GSF & CRAFTING.

 

But that's not what happened. So now, the choice is simple: adapt or un-$ub.

[Calidge]

Ability pruning for the most part is pretty stupid. They can reduce this game down to 3 skill and the clickers and general bad players will continue to be bad, but sadly we have to suffer for it.

 

Unfortunately, this translates well to a mobile platform.

[DarkIntelligence]

I've been going through this thread and can't help but just echo what everyone else has said. I don't know what else to say except to copy and paste my message to BioWare when I canceled my subscription earlier today.

 

"I am one of the original SWTOR players, created a forum account 2 years before the game even launched, ordered the collector's edition and played since the first day of early release. I have long since soured on the game after the debacle that was KOTOR and the subsequent life-support mode that the game has since been on. That said, in spite of my many and justifiable misgivings as well as my supreme disappointment at the delay of the "expansion" (I put it in quotations because 2 hours of story content is hardly an expansion) I nevertheless decided to give it a try. Well suffice it to say I am at a loss for words to describe my profound disappointment with the end product you put out.

 

From virtually any perspective, besides the CGI trailer, Legacy of the Sith is an unmitigated disaster. The UI changes are horrendous and utterly and completely unnecessary not to mention objectively much worse than what they replaced. The whole thing screams "we did this and put zero effort in it just so we can say we did something and hope to justify our paychecks" frankly it looks like the alpha version of a game from 20 years ago. A far cry from the "modernization and streamlining" you promised 7.0 would deliver. The "expansion" launch was rife with bugs and continues to plague the game days later. The story was too short and felt like the barebones of something much larger that for whatever reason was not finished. The increase in the level cap and changes to gearing felt completely unnecessary and simply like a forced reset of player power and progression only to get us back on the pointless hamster wheel grind because you can't provide us with meaningful content. This brings me to the biggest selling point on the "expansion" the so called combat styles which were deceptively marketed as being able to play your character any way you wanted when in reality it was just a decoupling of the story from the class.

 

Bottom line, the Legacy of the Sith has been an abject failure."

 

Could have gone on and on but they limit you to only 2000 characters. The game has been left to rot on the vine for far too long and they have time and again shown no interest in reviving it. Choosing instead to peddle what bitter, rotten fruit remains by endlessly repackaging and recycling old content and I for one want no part in it. I would much rather keep the fond memories I have of the good old days and sadly lament what could have been.