Premades are hurting pvp participation

[Raansu]

Yes, I'm going to believe Musco who is a BioWare employee more than you.

[Amunra-amunray]

Yes, I'm going to believe Musco who is a BioWare employee more than you.

 

you do not have to believe me... and you can believe a blogger who doesnt program over me any day, but you cannot deny what is actually transpiring do your own statistics before just believing what some says at face value...

 

and please stick to the topic and provide proven results to support your argument and refrain for attacking the messenger...

[Savej]

Grouping up isn't an exploit.

The game already prioritizes group vs group when it can.

The pvp community is way too small to split them off.

Premades are only 4 players.

There's nothing to address because its not a problem.

 

The game is 10 years old. They are never going to remove groups from unranked warzones. Deal with it or move on. Or better yet, group up yourself and realize premades were not the problem as you continue to still get farmed.

 

You don't think an unfair system is a problem. Got it.

 

And lol - I've seen it all, done it all, been the farmee and the farmer. I'm not one that gets my kicks farming helpless players, not my idea of fun. I will stop q'ing if I'm on either side. Many people do. That's the point. Preventing groups from q'ing regs would increase pvp participation in this game.

 

Just because you aren't having a problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

 

As for Musco, I don't think he deliberately lies but I could quickly list at least half a dozen things he's been wrong about over the years.

[Nickodemous]

You don't think an unfair system is a problem. Got it.

 

And lol - I've seen it all, done it all, been the farmee and the farmer. I'm not one that gets my kicks farming helpless players, not my idea of fun. I will stop q'ing if I'm on either side. Many people do. That's the point. Preventing groups from q'ing regs would increase pvp participation in this game.

 

Just because you aren't having a problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

 

As for Musco, I don't think he deliberately lies but I could quickly list at least half a dozen things he's been wrong about over the years.

 

Getting farmed by a premade is almost laughable now. There is no such thing as a pvp guild. I am at a loss here, who exactly is grouping to farm you? I can honestly say that you have never farmed me.

 

I wish you all actually knew what it was like to be "farmed". "Farming" other players in pvp now is a joke....it simply does not happen.

[Raansu]

You don't think an unfair system is a problem. Got it.

 

And lol - I've seen it all, done it all, been the farmee and the farmer. I'm not one that gets my kicks farming helpless players, not my idea of fun. I will stop q'ing if I'm on either side. Many people do. That's the point. Preventing groups from q'ing regs would increase pvp participation in this game.

 

Just because you aren't having a problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

 

As for Musco, I don't think he deliberately lies but I could quickly list at least half a dozen things he's been wrong about over the years.

 

There's nothing remotely unfair about it.

[Kleevescorruptor]

Here lets try this on and see who bites. Well over half of the PvP community groups together and are called premade. So yeah get rid of premades and see pvp never pop hell see it go away completely. Because of these posts some premades are simple unguilding so you can't see they are in same guild and still group together to make you think they are solo. They should not have to do this to group together. Most premades as most have said are just friends playing together which is the whole purpose of an MMORPG you want to be a solo player go play a solo game that simple. MMORPG's are made to have people group together play together to say take grouping out of a part of the game is just plain stupid seeing one more time this is an MMORPG which means play together group together to get things down easier. How about solo players are aloud to que would that be fair? same thing right saying grouped player cant queue why not say solo players cant queue. This whole topic about premades is dumb to its core. The main problem is the very few that just don't care if they win or lose and just farm numbers over wins. They come as solo players and premades. You know how many times I queue solo and win a lot! Just get better at the game that is it. Spend time on a training dummy. Parse yourself get better that what most of them do fine tune their rotations read all the tool tips in their combat trees. learn the game. People that complain about premades just don't spend the time the so called premades do to get better at the game they talk to each other help each other get better. Go make friends its an MMORPG.

[MERCBERSERK]

Here lets try this on and see who bites. Well over half of the PvP community groups together and are called premade. So yeah get rid of premades and see pvp never pop hell see it go away completely. Because of these posts some premades are simple unguilding so you can't see they are in same guild and still group together to make you think they are solo. They should not have to do this to group together. Most premades as most have said are just friends playing together which is the whole purpose of an MMORPG you want to be a solo player go play a solo game that simple. MMORPG's are made to have people group together play together to say take grouping out of a part of the game is just plain stupid seeing one more time this is an MMORPG which means play together group together to get things down easier. How about solo players are aloud to que would that be fair? same thing right saying grouped player cant queue why not say solo players cant queue. This whole topic about premades is dumb to its core. The main problem is the very few that just don't care if they win or lose and just farm numbers over wins. They come as solo players and premades. You know how many times I queue solo and win a lot! Just get better at the game that is it. Spend time on a training dummy. Parse yourself get better that what most of them do fine tune their rotations read all the tool tips in their combat trees. learn the game. People that complain about premades just don't spend the time the so called premades do to get better at the game they talk to each other help each other get better. Go make friends its an MMORPG.

 

this might have been the only rational comment in this entire thread

 

The main problem is the very few that just don't care if they win or lose and just farm numbers over wins. They come as solo players and premades.

 

...until that, right there.

[Amunra-amunray]

You don't think an unfair system is a problem. Got it.

 

And lol - I've seen it all, done it all, been the farmee and the farmer. I'm not one that gets my kicks farming helpless players, not my idea of fun. I will stop q'ing if I'm on either side. Many people do. That's the point. Preventing groups from q'ing regs would increase pvp participation in this game.

 

Just because you aren't having a problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

 

As for Musco, I don't think he deliberately lies but I could quickly list at least half a dozen things he's been wrong about over the years.

 

I do not want groups to be prevented from the queue... I want them to not be prioritized in unranked matches and have their own queue... therefore they would have to go up against other groups... you do not go into a team match playing 8 v 4 or 4 v 1 but they have built the match queue to do just such a thing... and have admitted it openly.

 

The notion that the queues will slow if you had a group match and solo match queue is preposterous cause more people would queue if there was a solo match queue maybe they wouldn't queue so much if there was a group match queue but that is the price you pay that solo queuers are paying now for the selfishness that is being allowed or the favoritism that is being allowed for groups over non groups. Further, Star Wars is about one to one conflicts resolustions not an army of heroes vs Villains. The armies were using ranged tech classes overseen by those and only a few times in all the movies do you see many jedi fighting many sith force light saber users etc...

 

So to build the theme of the game is to spit on the essence of what Star Wars means. The art of the duel which died to the favoritism of allowing groups to be seen as better over the rest of the game...

 

And to see it otherwise mean you enjoy perpetuating a broken system they refuse to change for the better...

 

People who dont queue for pvp anymore would begin again if they know there is higher chances they will win over losing and would queue more if wins only was removed. No excuse under the sun would make that perception void from the truth and reality of which is unranked warzones... and a prime example is why too few queue for ranked pvp except a tight niche of people... and you have to tell up for the matches to even populate...

 

and if the queues are faster because of groups being in match queue then the slow queues would be the solo match queues so why be against it... further makes no sense to leave the match queues the way they are

Edited March 6, 2022 by Amunra-amunray

[Raansu]

I do not want groups to be prevented from the queue... I want them to not be prioritized in unranked matches and have their own queue... therefore they would have to go up against other groups... you do not go into a team match playing 8 v 4 or 4 v 1 but they have built the match queue to do just such a thing... and have admitted it openly.

 

This sounds like you're referring to lowbies which.....lol just stop. Lowbies died and never recovered after the implementation of galactic command and the removal of warzone comms. The only thing that matters now is level cap warzones sadly. Lowbies is always going to be an unbalanced mess due to the way too high level gaps now on top of the fact that no one queues for it thanks to past changes making queueing for lowbies pointless.

 

The only way to fix lowbies is to essentially remove it. Change pvp to have everyone have a pvp loadout section and anyone from level 1-80 can queue into the a single bracket since everyone will be level 80 with all their skills unlocked.

 

The notion that the queues will slow if you had a group match and solo match queue is preposterous cause more people would queue if there was a solo match queue maybe they wouldn't queue so much if there was a group match queue but that is the price you pay that solo queuers are paying now for the selfishness that is being allowed or the favoritism that is being allowed for groups over non groups.

 

And pray tell how would you split them? A "premade" is only 4 players. Its only half a team.

 

And no, its not preposterous because it would absolutely slow the queue times down. PvP in this game is extremely small, and the amount of premades vs solo players is even smaller. The only ones being selfish here are the solo players who think every warzone loss must be only because they faced a premade that likely wasn't a premade so we should punish all the people that run in a "premade" of 2-4 people to essentially never be allowed to play because that "premade queue" would never pop.

 

So to build the theme of the game is to spit on the essence of what Star Wars means. The art of the duel which died to the favoritism of allowing groups to be seen as better over the rest of the game...

 

Now you're just babbling.....

 

And to see it otherwise mean you enjoy perpetuating a broken system they refuse to change for the better...

 

Maybe because its not broken?

 

People who dont queue for pvp anymore would begin again if they know there is higher chances they will win over losing and would queue more if wins only was removed. No excuse under the sun would make that perception void from the truth and reality of which is unranked warzones... and a prime example is why too few queue for ranked pvp except a tight niche of people... and you have to tell up for the matches to even populate...

 

Your losing streak would be the same regardless of what they do to "premades" because you likely only run into a real "premade" once or twice a night as is anyways.

 

and if the queues are faster because of groups being in match queue then the slow queues would be the solo match queues so why be against it... further makes no sense to leave the match queues the way they are

 

The opposite would happen.....

Edited March 6, 2022 by Raansu

[Csjbo]

So to build the theme of the game is to spit on the essence of what Star Wars means. The art of the duel which died to the favoritism of allowing groups to be seen as better over the rest of the game...

No matter what you think of the game or whatever the meaning of Star Wars is supposed to be....SWTOR is an MMO. Therefore, game modes that encourage forming groups in order to accomplish goals are exactly in line with the genre itself.

[Amunra-amunray]

Add a Group and Solo match Queue to unranked warzones and all will be satisfied. Groups will not be made priority over solos, solo wont get farmed as easily. Groups would have to compete against groups as team matches are intended.

 

I want valid and legitimate excuses as to why this is done for ranked and not unranked warzones and if its cause it would slow the queues from popping i beg to differ cause those who left pvp would return to playing if balance was restored.

 

So you can continue to avoid the actual reason this needs change or you can allow the perpetuation of a broken system.

 

No need to have wins only for warzones no other content is like this... Ranked that may be another thing entirely but I do not queue ranked and wins only remaining here might be a good thing....

 

But not in a training arena such as unranked warzones where the queues consistently and i have done the math placed low geared and weak stated players against great stated players and groups with full class spectrum teams

 

this is not balance and is only fair to a small amount of the entire subcriber base and has been something that for a very long time has been discussed and should not be ignored or demeaned or frowned upon or attacked for this options any further...

[TheRealExozone]

Add a Group and Solo match Queue to unranked warzones and all will be satisfied. Groups will not be made priority over solos, solo wont get farmed as easily. Groups would have to compete against groups as team matches are intended.

 

I want valid and legitimate excuses as to why this is done for ranked and not unranked warzones and if its cause it would slow the queues from popping i beg to differ cause those who left pvp would return to playing if balance was restored.

 

So you can continue to avoid the actual reason this needs change or you can allow the perpetuation of a broken system.

 

No need to have wins only for warzones no other content is like this... Ranked that may be another thing entirely but I do not queue ranked and wins only remaining here might be a good thing....

 

But not in a training arena such as unranked warzones where the queues consistently and i have done the math placed low geared and weak stated players against great stated players and groups with full class spectrum teams

 

this is not balance and is only fair to a small amount of the entire subcriber base and has been something that for a very long time has been discussed and should not be ignored or demeaned or frowned upon or attacked for this options any further...

 

This. Groups should fight groups and random solo players should fight random solo players. It's not rocket science.

[Amunra-amunray]

This. Groups should fight groups and random solo players should fight random solo players. It's not rocket science.

 

I am not sure if you agree with me or disagree... and further if groups in unranked warzones are not the issue then why fight so hard to keep them from having to fight other groups and not farm trainees going it solo?

[MagikFingerz]

And no, its not preposterous because it would absolutely slow the queue times down. PvP in this game is extremely small, and the amount of premades vs solo players is even smaller. The only ones being selfish here are the solo players who think every warzone loss must be only because they faced a premade that likely wasn't a premade so we should punish all the people that run in a "premade" of 2-4 people to essentially never be allowed to play because that "premade queue" would never pop.

 

This is simply another problem, to which the reasonable solution is to grow the PvP playerbase, through the use of better incentives or something else. More players would, assuming the matchmaking system is somewhat decent, lead to more balanced matches in a non-premade queue. Too few PvP participants is actually a huge problem and should be addressed, not just to ensure more even matchups and enable two types of queues, but to avoid the whole gamemode from dying (as you point out has happened with lowbies).

[SymbolismNZ]

The problem is people inside premades don't realise how stupid and ****** it is to come up against one that's organised, has all the right composition to be OP and completely dominates everyone they come across because for them it's like playing a single player game on easy mode so of course it seems fun

 

Then you see them start begging for people to queue.

 

The game will die due to poor match making, class imbalances that are never fixed and the min/maxxers who spend 10 hours a day finding the quirks in the game to dominate.

 

The key to PVP now? Stop queuing entirely if you're sick of it. It will die a death.

[Zoidrinali]

People were complaining about premades when I last played 5 years ago....and 5 years later now I've stepped my toes back into the game I find people are still complaining about premades?

 

Amazing, I guess some things never change.

 

Putting it simply people like playing with friends, it's that simple. Now some people will be better at the game than others...and with pvp, as with many things in life, those people who know their class tend to find other people (naturally) who also know their class. Have a group of people who know each other and enjoy playing with each other and you have a premade. It's the kind of thing that happens in many forms of life not just here in a game.

 

When I last played I used to group up with some friends from Lord of the Drinks on the Red eclipse server, one of many pvp guilds on the server. We simply used to group up with whatever class we fancied using at the time, if someone had to do a weekly on their a character they would switch to it. Sometimes we would change as well just for a change (we all had multiple classes), sometimes we wouldn't so it'd just be the one to change.

 

By saying one of the solutions would be to ban premades you're telling people they're not allowed to play with friends which for an MMO....would be highly irregular, extremely bizarre and defeating the purpose of an MMO in the first place.

[Amunra-amunray]

People were complaining about premades when I last played 5 years ago....and 5 years later now I've stepped my toes back into the game I find people are still complaining about premades?

 

Amazing, I guess some things never change.

 

Putting it simply people like playing with friends, it's that simple. Now some people will be better at the game than others...and with pvp, as with many things in life, those people who know their class tend to find other people (naturally) who also know their class. Have a group of people who know each other and enjoy playing with each other and you have a premade. It's the kind of thing that happens in many forms of life not just here in a game.

 

When I last played I used to group up with some friends from Lord of the Drinks on the Red eclipse server, one of many pvp guilds on the server. We simply used to group up with whatever class we fancied using at the time, if someone had to do a weekly on their a character they would switch to it. Sometimes we would change as well just for a change (we all had multiple classes), sometimes we wouldn't so it'd just be the one to change.

 

By saying one of the solutions would be to ban premades you're telling people they're not allowed to play with friends which for an MMO....would be highly irregular, extremely bizarre and defeating the purpose of an MMO in the first place.

 

PEOPLE can play with friends all they want.... but they should be playing with others who also like playing with friends.... You are still missing the mark..... Groups should only fight groups and solos should only fight solo

 

If they cannot handle having to do it.... or if they are worried about the queues slowing then don't queue group and play solo... but again the game is intended for all subscribers to have fun not a niche group of people who enjoy abusing the queue system to their advantage... why does ranked have a solo and group queue and unranked doesn't makes no sense.. and i bet tons of in game credits the premade complaints would vanish if there was a group and solo match queue in unranked. and or if groups were not given priority at all and were properly randomized in the match queue... but they are not changing it cause the like the advantage of having a "golden eye gold gun" as it were.... farming trainees...

 

Additionally there is no reason that there shouldn't be an 8 man ranked group match queue...

 

No reason and it should be implemented a group and solo match queue in unranked warzones. and let the friends play with friends against other friends... and let those who solo have their fun too...

 

But again they only care about a certain section of all their subscriber's wishes it seems...

[ReinhartRussian]

PEOPLE can play with friends all they want.... but they should be playing with others who also like playing with friends.... You are still missing the mark..... Groups should only fight groups and solos should only fight solo

 

If they cannot handle having to do it.... or if they are worried about the queues slowing then don't queue group and play solo... but again the game is intended for all subscribers to have fun not a niche group of people who enjoy abusing the queue system to their advantage... why does ranked have a solo and group queue and unranked doesn't makes no sense.. and i bet tons of in game credits the premade complaints would vanish if there was a group and solo match queue in unranked. and or if groups were not given priority at all and were properly randomized in the match queue... but they are not changing it cause the like the advantage of having a "golden eye gold gun" as it were.... farming trainees...

 

Additionally there is no reason that there shouldn't be an 8 man ranked group match queue...

 

No reason and it should be implemented a group and solo match queue in unranked warzones. and let the friends play with friends against other friends... and let those who solo have their fun too...

 

But again they only care about a certain section of all their subscriber's wishes it seems...

 

How about just 1 little option:

Check / Uncheck mark with words "Click to opt out of group PvP ques" small option that you can toggle on and off.

[afwhoefuwov]

Perhaps have 2 modes: premade only vs PUG? Premades is fun because you are playing with your friends, who know your playstyles and preferences. PUG tests how effective you can work with other players who you never play with. Before any of you cry "just go group with friends", well I do have a premade group with my friends, but what happen when none of your friends are online? Then you will be grouped with PUG. It wouldnt be fair for a PUG against a premade.

 

Not against premade, but it needs to be its own category otherwise it's unfair. And yes, I have a premade with my friends and I say that it is unfair.

Edited March 18, 2022 by afwhoefuwov

[Darththirdeye]

Removing premades won't solve your issue of losing back to back. You will only focus the bad gameplay towards another scapegoat(game mechanic). 8 solo qued players that are playing together are able to beat a premade time after time. I been on both sides of the fence. Focus your hatred towards improving the PvP community on better gameplay and obj/focus target game style

 

**To the newer players.** SWTOR has already fixed the premade issue. It was possible to que a 8 man premade in regular warzones back in the day. There are plenty of examples of 8 solo que players that have beat a premade of 4 players time after time.

 

Overwatch is the same way. Solo players won't go against full premade of 6 players but will face against a premade of 4 players

[ReinhartRussian]

Removing premades won't solve your issue of losing back to back. You will only focus the bad gameplay towards another scapegoat(game mechanic). 8 solo qued players that are playing together are able to beat a premade time after time. I been on both sides of the fence. Focus your hatred towards improving the PvP community on better gameplay and obj/focus target game style

 

**To the newer players.** SWTOR has already fixed the premade issue. It was possible to que a 8 man premade in regular warzones back in the day. There are plenty of examples of 8 solo que players that have beat a premade of 4 players time after time.

 

Overwatch is the same way. Solo players won't go against full premade of 6 players but will face against a premade of 4 players

 

It will solve the issue. Stop lying. Just by nature of premades usually they have 1 extra healer or a tank on a team. Lets talk about coordination.

 

It is easier to kill a healer when you are coordinating CCs with another DPS vs a complete pug. Now add that premades have a tank and other team does not then all over sudden on any objective fights premades have a SEVERE advantage in team fights.

 

Take Huttball and tell me if premades have even playing field here? Coordinated premades in Huttball is probably even a bigger discrepancy.

 

Stop implying that SOLO que players are a trash tier and they are losing only because they are not "gud" enough. We all know that is a lie. I actually players in premades are mechanically worse than solo quers, because they always rely on pocket healer or a tank.

[Darththirdeye]

 

Take Huttball and tell me if premades have even playing field here? Coordinated premades in Huttball is probably even a bigger discrepancy.

 

I literally told you in another forum. I was literally in a Huttball match last night against a premade. It was a easy GG against the said premade. Non obj play and tunnel focus is the main problem with pvp, not premades. Turn your focus trying to improve the pvp community

 

Your head would explode if it was 8 man premades like back in the day.

 

Are you on the OW forums complaining about premades too?

[ReinhartRussian]

I literally told you in another forum. I was literally in a Huttball match last night against a premade. It was a easy GG against the said premade. Non obj play and tunnel focus is the main problem with pvp, not premades. Turn your focus trying to improve the pvp community

 

Your head would explode if it was 8 man premades like back in the day.

 

Are you on the OW forums complaining about premades too?

 

Are you seriously constructing your argument based on that one time experience?

 

LMAO. You know how many games I had with a tank Operative and a sorc healer. Both operative or sorc camped our based either by being stealthy or putting out a portal and all they did was carried and passed on flags. Don't even argue that Premade has no advantage in Huttball, if they didn't they would not be running it.

 

Argument of WELL IT WAS A LOT WORSE BACK THEN so you should feel happy is invalid. Solo quers want an equal footing when it comes to Unranked QUEs.

 

Tell me why are you so up against facing equal odds against another premade and let solo QUE unranked have their own separate bracket? If your premades do not have any advantage then go que against other premades and let the rest of Solo Quers be in their own unorganized ques.

 

Premades have a tremendous advantage over unorganized solo ques from both team composition and objective play. If premades are number farming it is also not fun to face against.

 

Premade players are not better than solo que players just more organized.

Edited March 18, 2022 by ReinhartRussian

[Amunra-amunray]

FINALLY someone who understand the truth of the broken unbalanced queue system that was created... Edited March 21, 2022 by Amunra-amunray
mis quoted

[ReinhartRussian]

https://imgur.com/a/9D5Z0Tm

 

 

Picture worth 1000 words. This is why it is aggrivating to que vs premades. They are not good players and win only by virtue of having better comp and being slightly better than average player.

 

10 Deaths and I still ran circles around terrible *** premade. We still lost because the rest 7 players could not do anything.

 

This happened 17 times in a row. I kid you not 17 losses in a row because of premades. Couple of my friends quit the game because of this, and right now more and more people that I know that are solid PvPers are completely opting out of Unranked / PvP or game in general.

 

The game right now rewards ZERG Premades not skilled gameplay.