Premades are hurting pvp participation

[MERCBERSERK]

https://imgur.com/a/9D5Z0Tm

 

 

Picture worth 1000 words. This is why it is aggrivating to que vs premades. They are not good players and win only by virtue of having better comp and being slightly better than average player.

 

10 Deaths and I still ran circles around terrible *** premade. We still lost because the rest 7 players could not do anything.

 

This happened 17 times in a row. I kid you not 17 losses in a row because of premades. Couple of my friends quit the game because of this, and right now more and more people that I know that are solid PvPers are completely opting out of Unranked / PvP or game in general.

 

The game right now rewards ZERG Premades not skilled gameplay.

 

this picture is a picture of exactly 0 words because the image is so low in quality nothing is legible in the image. on top of being a screen shot of a screen shot. do you not know how to use a computer?

[ReinhartRussian]

this picture is a picture of exactly 0 words because the image is so low in quality nothing is legible in the image. on top of being a screen shot of a screen shot. do you not know how to use a computer?

 

I think its your eyes man. Everyone could see numbers. Basically same story - outperformed terrible premade, did more damage and objective play with 10 deaths, only to lose at the end.

[MERCBERSERK]

naw, apparently imgur works like **** on mobile. it displays the image fine on pc though. what server is this? malgus?

[TmoneyTime]

https://imgur.com/a/9D5Z0Tm

 

 

Picture worth 1000 words. This is why it is aggrivating to que vs premades. They are not good players and win only by virtue of having better comp and being slightly better than average player.

 

10 Deaths and I still ran circles around terrible *** premade. We still lost because the rest 7 players could not do anything.

 

This happened 17 times in a row. I kid you not 17 losses in a row because of premades. Couple of my friends quit the game because of this, and right now more and more people that I know that are solid PvPers are completely opting out of Unranked / PvP or game in general.

 

The game right now rewards ZERG Premades not skilled gameplay.

 

This isnt a premade problem its a matchmaking problem. You had at least 4 players that didn't belong in this level of game. That's not the premades fault that's the game not taking into account any type of skill for queuing.

Edited March 20, 2022 by TmoneyTime

[Amunra-amunray]

This isnt a premade problem its a matchmaking problem. You had at least 4 players that didn't belong in this level of game. That's not the premades fault that's the game not taking into account any type of skill for queuing.

 

Its as simple as this... GROUPS should not be fighting SOLOs PERIOD!

 

SOLO should not be fighting GROUPs...

 

Anything else is strictly trying to tweak a program to comprehend balance of good skilled players and groups vs those with low gear solo and no groups... the balance will never be there....

 

Enough player play the game for these queues to exist... the same should also apply to Galactic Star Fighter... but it still doesn't seem to work out that way.....

 

The rest is just hot air!

[Darththirdeye]

https://imgur.com/a/9D5Z0Tm

 

 

Picture worth 1000 words..

 

You are correct. A picture are worth a 1000 words, yet they don't benefit you in anyway. Let's break this down.

For you posted a screenshot of the top dps in a Huttball. IN HUTBALL. That means nothing.

You had the 2nd lowest objs on your team. Which would seem you are more interesting farming numbers then objs.

You claim your teammates did nothing. Yet, most of them had more obj points then you. Were you number farming in a hutball only to expect a win cause you had high dps yet low obj points?

Your team lost in a tie. The match wasn't a lost cause of a "premade". It almost shows the alternative, that a non premade almost beat a "premade" even with a teammate was number farming.

Every comment you made about premades are now invalid after seeing this.

 

Side question: I see you have one loss in your daily GSF quest. Did you lose to a premade too? Should I look at GSF forums and see you complaining about premades there too??

[Floplag]

Its as simple as this... GROUPS should not be fighting SOLOs PERIOD!

 

SOLO should not be fighting GROUPs...

 

Anything else is strictly trying to tweak a program to comprehend balance of good skilled players and groups vs those with low gear solo and no groups... the balance will never be there....

 

Enough player play the game for these queues to exist... the same should also apply to Galactic Star Fighter... but it still doesn't seem to work out that way.....

 

The rest is just hot air!

 

No, its not that simple either.

What is needed is better match making.

if you put a group on one side you should put stronger solo players on the other.

People think too much in absolutes anymore... none of this is as simple as breaking the community we have into how many queues? The goal is to balance the matches, regardless of composition.

[Amunra-amunray]

No, its not that simple either.

What is needed is better match making.

if you put a group on one side you should put stronger solo players on the other.

People think too much in absolutes anymore... none of this is as simple as breaking the community we have into how many queues? The goal is to balance the matches, regardless of composition.

 

Why does no one understand ....

 

A group match queue for group players only

and a solo match queue for solo player only

 

And, YES! it is that simple....

 

The rest is still just hot air....

[Podrik]

Why does no one understand ....

 

A group match queue for group players only

and a solo match queue for solo player only

 

And, YES! it is that simple....

 

The rest is still just hot air....

 

It really is that simple but the people that play in premades, be it just group with their friends or carefully thought out comp don't want that to happen. They want to be able to stomp the non premades, that's why they don't want this to change. You can sometimes see a premade leave because there's another premade in the match and they know they're better. They just rather take the 15 mins wait than get a loss on their stats.

 

I don't really have a problem with premades, I'm used to them from my years in wow and you can beat almost any premade if you just decide to work together, someone has to lead and give instructions tho...

 

My problems with swtor pvp lies elsewhere.

[TmoneyTime]

Why does no one understand ....

 

A group match queue for group players only

and a solo match queue for solo player only

 

And, YES! it is that simple....

 

The rest is still just hot air....

 

No it isn't that simple. Lets put it this way. Lets rank each player on a scale of 1 to 100.

 

Group only Que:

Team 1

Player 1 23

Player 2 21

Player 3 40

Player 4 60

Total 144

 

Team 2

Player 1 80

Player 2 87

Player 3 85

Player 4 20

Total 272

Team 2 will rolf stomp Team 1. This is what your suggesting just que up groups together. Now players that are not very good will never que together thus eliminating the mmo concept. The only advantage of this is for solo quers who need to be carried.

 

In reality this is what needs to happen

 

Premade Team 1

Player 1 80

Player 2 75

Player 3 85

Player 4 40

Total: 280

 

Solo Que Team 2

Player 1 83

Player 2 72

Player 3 86

Player 4 49

Total:290

 

There should be a slight offset to the solo que team to have a higher rating vs the premade. We could toy around with how much the offset would need to be, but in general this is how it should work.

 

Currently on live we have this:

 

Premade team 1

Player 1 85

Player 2 76

Player 3 70

Player 4 60

Solo player 70

Solo Player 60

Solo player 20

Solo player 50

Total 491

 

Solo team 2

Player 1 95

Player 2 30

Player 3 35

Player 4 36

Player 5 60

Player 6 50

Player 7 40

Player 8 25

Total 371

 

120 point delta between the teams that could equate to team 1 having 2 more above average players then solo team 2. if we use 50 as our average player skill.

 

Its only based on how to make the quickest match. I am almost certain there is no class or skill match making. It is just who ever is in que and then randomly splits the teams up for fastest matches. Technically speaking the premade actually has a higher chance to get the better solo que players due to how random probability works with set in stone numbers.(Lots of math mostly boring.)

Edited March 22, 2022 by TmoneyTime

[Floplag]

Why does no one understand ....

 

A group match queue for group players only

and a solo match queue for solo player only

 

And, YES! it is that simple....

 

The rest is still just hot air....

 

We do not have the player base for this, you do that your looking at massive queue increases... dont over complicate it as youll get nothing.

There is no issues with groups in with solos as long as its more balanced that is it currently.

[waisting]

Premades are helping pvp participation. Letting people play with their friends encourages them to queue.

[Ravenschild]

Premades have been a thing at launch and after 7.0 seem absolutely necessary to be able to complete the weekly in a timely manner. I stepped away from the game for four years and came back last November. I didn't pvp all that much until recently and I can tell you it is a skill thing more than anything else.

 

All the bad habits I saw in pvp when I left the game in lowbies, I am seeing in end game 8v8's. No calls, guarding directly on the cap ,mezz breaking,etc. I am not the best out there,I am not even good, I am just competent (and admittedly am terrible at arenas). It isnt difficult to do the thing, but nobody seems to want to. I have watched the entire team go to cap a point in everything from Alderaan and Yavin to Hypergate. I have watched everyone guard one side in Void Star. At least back in the early days with 8v8 kickball ranked, they made certain people knew what to do.

 

This is one of the biggest arguments in favor of premades. At least then you arent as likely to have to play 20 matches or more to get the weekly done.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Ravenschild

[MotorCityMan]

Tired of these posts.

 

Here are the facts:

You can make your own pre-made in about 2 matches. If your good at pvp and invite people that performed well after the match you can make a premade almost instantly. I have never had a problem getting a group together when I want.

 

Most of the time premades are just friends messing around not really taking things seriously or a group of players that do well in pvp and want to increase the chances of not playing with useless teammates. Quite frankly if your good at pvp finding a group is stupid easy.

 

Queuing Solo is really your choice. Lots of times I que solo because of laziness and still have a positive winrate.

 

99.9% of the time this is a learn to play issue. Quite frankly most people can't pvp that well. You have no ideal how much trolling I do in a warzone. Where I let people get me to 1/4th health before I attack or just stand there and let them wail on me, because they are clicking, backpedaling, or have no concept of how their class works. The average knowledge and application of the SWTOR player base is low.

 

Might sound harsh but its the truth.

 

And I am even more tired of dismissive 'git gud' posts like this.

 

For those of us that are 'not gud' but still enjoyed trying in pvp, previously there was 50% reward compensation for the weekly. Now there is none and no reason for pugs to be cannon fodder for premades. Which is exactly what the OP was saying in their post.

I would recommend queues for group queue or solo queue, (as ranked pvp is designed), but not both group and solo together in the same queue. It would improve the experience for all players.

Edited March 24, 2022 by MotorCityMan

[Toonicker]

Premades are very very very annoying! we really need 2 different que's Edited March 24, 2022 by Toonicker

[Amunra-amunray]

premades are very very very annoying! We really need 2 different que's

 

And I am even more tired of dismissive 'git gud' posts like this.

 

For those of us that are 'not gud' but still enjoyed trying in pvp, previously there was 50% reward compensation for the weekly. Now there is none and no reason for pugs to be cannon fodder for premades. Which is exactly what the OP was saying in their post.

I would recommend queues for group queue or solo queue, (as ranked pvp is designed), but not both group and solo together in the same queue. It would improve the experience for all players.

 

exactamundo!

Edited March 24, 2022 by Amunra-amunray
added a quote

[TmoneyTime]

And I am even more tired of dismissive 'git gud' posts like this.

 

For those of us that are 'not gud' but still enjoyed trying in pvp, previously there was 50% reward compensation for the weekly. Now there is none and no reason for pugs to be cannon fodder for premades. Which is exactly what the OP was saying in their post.

I would recommend queues for group queue or solo queue, (as ranked pvp is designed), but not both group and solo together in the same queue. It would improve the experience for all players.

 

There's no logic at all in this statement. You just said I'm bad but don't want to get better, so I should get rewarded.

 

Pvp is a competitive mode. Match making is the problem not premades. If the game would not look for the fastest que but skill based matchmaking, none of it would matter. Biodady won't do this because I'm betting they have some metrics that say players will only wait x amount of time for an pvp pop. Bad players will still get ran over without premades.

Edited March 24, 2022 by TmoneyTime

[Toonicker]

There's no logic at all in this statement. You just said I'm bad but don't want to get better, so I should get rewarded.

 

Pvp is a competitive mode. Match making is the problem not premades. If the game would not look for the fastest que but skill based matchmaking, none of it would matter. Biodady won't do this because I'm betting they have some metrics that say players will only wait x amount of time for an pvp pop. Bad players will still get ran over without premades.

 

And what you say makes no sense either, I see GOOD and BAD players getting Steam Rolled, the problem is even 1 or 2 GOOD players in a match can only do so much.

 

Me personally I'm sick to death of having to go through 10 matches or more for 1 win, after the 5th I just start raging. I pay for this game I don't want to have to blow 8 hours for a win because some greedy arse is on the other side bringing his friends in. I've tried the build your own group aproach but I can only usually get them interested about once a week. SO THEY NEED OPTIONS! WHY ARE PEOPLE SAYING NO TO OPTIONS? why? because you're having fun steam rolling with no compition thats why.

[MERCBERSERK]

And what you say makes no sense either

 

makes no sense? doesn't really matter if it makes sense to you or not. he's right, it's the fact of the matter. you guys are so irrational.

 

I see GOOD and BAD players getting Steam Rolled, the problem is even 1 or 2 GOOD players in a match can only do so much.

 

that's right, 1-2 good players can only do so much against 4-8 good players. premade or not, it is of little consequence.

 

Me personally I'm sick to death of having to go through 10 matches or more for 1 win, after the 5th I just start raging.

 

it sounds like you just don't like pvp. if you don't like it you have two options; either stop pvping or stop paying your sub, no one is making you pvp. tim was correct, pvp is competitive. the actual pvpers (people who pvp because they enjoy it) do not care about the rewards. i could never receive a single reward in a warzone and i would still play, because i enjoy pvping, the reward is pvping in itself, not tech fragments or thyrsians. you would probably win far more often if you concentrated on your performance in said warzones instead of blaming the game for all your losses.

 

I pay for this game I don't want to have to blow 8 hours for a win because some greedy arse is on the other side bringing his friends in.

 

this has absolutely nothing to do with greed whatsoever, they have every right to pvp with their friends. it is you who are self-projecting and being greedy by trying to tell them all that they shouldn't pvp with their friends when in fact that's exactly what they should do.

 

I've tried the build your own group aproach but I can only usually get them interested about once a week. SO THEY NEED OPTIONS! WHY ARE PEOPLE SAYING NO TO OPTIONS? why? because you're having fun steam rolling with no compition thats why.

 

people probably aren't interested in grouping with you because you're not a good player. i'm not trying to be mean, it's just the most likely reason as to why you're having issues getting people to play with you. again, if you focused on your own performance this would be a nonissue.

 

people are not saying "no to no options", SWTOR DOES NOT HAVE THE POPULATION TO SEGREGATE QUEUES people have already stated this in this and almost every other pvp thread a million times, because it's the fact of the matter. and even if swtor did have the population it still wouldn't be a thing because people should be able to queue with their friends.

Edited March 25, 2022 by MERCBERSERK

[Toonicker]

makes no sense? doesn't really matter if it makes sense to you or not. he's right, it's the fact of the matter. you guys are so irrational.

 

 

 

that's right, 1-2 good players can only do so much against 4-8 good players, premade or not, it is of little consequence.

 

 

 

it sounds like you just don't like pvp. if you don't like it you have two options; either stop pvping or stop paying your sub, no one is making you pvp. tim was correct, pvp is competitive. the actual pvpers (people who pvp because they enjoy it) do not care about the rewards. i could never receive a single reward in a warzone and i would still play, because i enjoy pvping, the reward is pvping in itself, not tech fragments or thyrsians. you would probably win far more often if you concentrated on your performance in said warzones instead of blaming the game for all your losses.

 

 

 

this has absolutely nothing to do with greed whatsoever, they have every right to pvp with their friends. it is you who are self-projecting and being greedy by trying to tell them all that they shouldn't pvp with their friends when in fact that's exactly what they should do.

 

 

 

people probably aren't interested in grouping with you because you're not a good player. i'm not trying to be mean, it's just the most likely reason as to why you're having issues getting people to play with you. again, if you focused on your own performance this would be a nonissue.

 

people are not saying "no to no options", SWTOR DOES NOT HAVE THE POPULATION TO SEGREGATE QUEUES people have already stated this in this and almost every other pvp thread a million times, because it's the fact of the matter. and even if swtor did have the population it still wouldn't be a thing because people should be able to queue with their friends.

 

you can fill these lines full of your bull all you want, you'll never convince me though. BTW I read about 3 lines before I realized it wasn't even worth reading.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Toonicker

[TheRealExozone]

Premades have been a thing at launch and after 7.0 seem absolutely necessary to be able to complete the weekly in a timely manner. I stepped away from the game for four years and came back last November. I didn't pvp all that much until recently and I can tell you it is a skill thing more than anything else.

 

All the bad habits I saw in pvp when I left the game in lowbies, I am seeing in end game 8v8's. No calls, guarding directly on the cap ,mezz breaking,etc. I am not the best out there,I am not even good, I am just competent (and admittedly am terrible at arenas). It isnt difficult to do the thing, but nobody seems to want to. I have watched the entire team go to cap a point in everything from Alderaan and Yavin to Hypergate. I have watched everyone guard one side in Void Star. At least back in the early days with 8v8 kickball ranked, they made certain people knew what to do.

 

This is one of the biggest arguments in favor of premades. At least then you arent as likely to have to play 20 matches or more to get the weekly done.

 

That's a very selfish way of looking at it. Basically without premades the average amount the vast majority of players would need is 7 or 8 matches to get the 4 wins. But with premades you have a smaller group only needing 4 matches, and a larger group needing more matches to get the 4 wins due to the auto-losses against premades.

 

However I really don't care about that, what I care about is that matches with a premade are so lobsided it saps all the fun out of that match even when you are on the team with the premade. I honestly don't understand why people even queue up as a premade vs randoms, but they sure as hell aren't true pvp'ers as we are looking for a challenge in PvP, that's the whole point of it; fighting intelligent opponents with the victor being decided by a combination of luck/skill/class balance. If you just want to stack things so much in your favor that you can roll over everything you may as well just farm npc's as it amounts to the same thing.

Edited March 24, 2022 by TheRealExozone

[MERCBERSERK]

you can fill these lines full of your bull all you want, you'll never convince me though. BTW I read about 3 lines before I realized it wasn't even worth reading.

 

of course i'm not going to convince you, i already stated that you're irrational. it's not worth reading to you because you don't care about facts or rationale, and you're not responding to any of it because you can't respond to rationale with biased delusions and you know it.

[MERCBERSERK]

That's a very selfish way of looking at it. Basically without premades the average amount the vast majority of players would need is 7 or 8 matches to get the 4 wins. But with premades you have a smaller group only needing 4 matches, and a larger group needing more matches to get the 4 wins due to the auto-losses against premades.

 

However I really don't care about that, what I care about is that matches with a premade are so lobsided it saps all the fun out of that match even when you are on the team with the premade. I honestly don't understand why people even queue up as a premade vs randoms, but they sure as hell aren't true pvp'ers as we are looking for a challenge in PvP, that's the whole point of it; fighting intelligent opponents with the victor being decided by a combination of luck/skill/class balance. If you just want to stack things so much in your favor that you can roll over everything you may as well just farm npc's as it amounts to the same thing.

 

false, false, false, and false. even if there were no premades the same people who complain about them would still get farmed just the same.

[Toonicker]

of course i'm not going to convince you, i already stated that you're irrational. it's not worth reading to you because you don't care about facts or rationale, and you're not responding to any of it because you can't respond to rationale with biased delusions and you know it.

 

Good now get lost! thanks! I accept that.

[Samcuu]

Premades are the best, I usually queue solo but if u get against a premade with a good heal/tank you can farm some nice numbers. Idk I don't see an issue with premades all that much. If they are interested in farming, you can usually win the wz cuz they won't touch objectives. I agree about the match making thing tho, it's poor and I think the issue could be improved if it was fixed. Most premades don't want to kill bads they want to come up against another premade because the matches are a lot more fun. Good players don't want to farm meat shields out of wzs imo, idk I might be wrong tho 😂😂