Itemization in 7.0

[Ruinus]

I've been playing this game heavily since the beginning of this year (1600h clocked on steam) as a 100% solo player and the current gearing system was a revelation to me. I absolutely love it. I never felt worse or left out, everything I do slowly brings me closer to best gear. I found it refreshing compared to MMOs like WoW. I'm really sad to hear that it is going away. It seems there will be no path to gear my characters other than conquest which will put me at pretty low irating where I won't even be able to mod things. I will probably stay subbed to see the story but I'm afraid that if those changes go through there won't be much to keep me playing afterwards. Edited November 4, 2021 by Ruinus

[TheVoyant]

One thing I don't understand is people's hate of amplifiers...

Why would you hate on an easy to acquire 10%-20% damage boost? Or more defense, healing, clearing content faster with alpha strike builds, etc.

 

The fact people are cheering at an additional nerf I find odd.

Edited November 4, 2021 by TheVoyant

[Sounders_Fan]

If you read the statement pvp has ilvl lock ( different from bolster, according the Chris it's coded from 0) even if you don't pve, you still be BiS for pvp doing only pvp. Pve players won't have any advantage over PvP players in PvP

 

I did read the statement and because bolster works so well they are now doing it in reverse.....

 

bolster has never worked that well to minimize the gear gap in PVP; why should I expect this reverse bolster or squish to work any better?

 

and BTW; the statement said that they want the content that requires the most players to complete to get the best gear; operations take 8 players; "regs" pvp requires 16 players. so by that logic PVP should get the best gear, not operations

[afwhoefuwov]

One thing I don't understand is people's hate of amplifiers...

Why would you hate on an easy to acquire 10%-20% damage boost? Or more defense, healing, clearing content faster with alpha strike builds, etc.

 

The fact people are cheering at an additional nerf I find odd.

 

I think it is because of the RNG and the high costs to roll. It took me close to 20 million to roll an Armor Penn amplifier, and that was only 1.00% Armor Penn. They could just make amplifiers less RNG.

[Sounders_Fan]

One thing I don't understand is people's hate of amplifiers...

Why would you hate on an easy to acquire 10%-20% damage boost? Or more defense, healing, clearing content faster with alpha strike builds, etc.

 

The fact people are cheering at an additional nerf I find odd.

 

amplifiers are a stupid credit sink that relies to heavily on RNG;

[Sounders_Fan]

Dear Bioware:

 

4. Players get discouraged when they're PvP'ing and fight alongside/against players with higher item ratings, even if there's an effective cap (most players won't be aware of it)

 

most players I know do not trust that the "cap" will actually be effective. I know I don't trust that it will work.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

One thing I don't understand is people's hate of amplifiers...

Why would you hate on an easy to acquire 10%-20% damage boost? Or more defense, healing, clearing content faster with alpha strike builds, etc.

 

The fact people are cheering at an additional nerf I find odd.

 

It's not odd. Amplifiers were a heavy RNG based credit sink. You could roll 5 times and get that gold amp you want, or 100 times and never get it.

 

I did get the combat amps for my specs, but I've also been playing the game for years and craft so I'm rolling in credits. Players who are newer, or just have left time to spend in the game, don't have those credits to waste on what is essentially gambling.

 

Amps were a credit sink, but the wrong sort.

 

... although even with amplifiers it's looking like 6.0 was a much more casual and alt-friendly gearing system then 7.0 will be.

[JakRoanin]

amplifiers are a stupid credit sink that relies to heavily on RNG;

 

We need credit sinks desperately but the RNG and the benefits of Amplifiers were shoddy and awful the only thing I am happy about in this gear system is that they are gone. The rest of it is painful (literally) disappointment for disabled solo players.

[limenutpen]

I did read the statement and because bolster works so well they are now doing it in reverse.....

 

bolster has never worked that well to minimize the gear gap in PVP; why should I expect this reverse bolster or squish to work any better?

 

and BTW; the statement said that they want the content that requires the most players to complete to get the best gear; operations take 8 players; "regs" pvp requires 16 players. so by that logic PVP should get the best gear, not operations

 

Bolster never worked well. It never did. The only think bolster managed well is HP, the rest was a mess.

Even the augment part which they say is capped is not atm. Go and test it and see for yourself.

[Akushii]

I am perfectly happy with the new Itemization. the old Renown system was terrible. I hit 306 gear on Day 4 of the expansion. Within a few days after that I had full set of my set bonus gear and had min-maxed gear for my main. Took me 1-2 more weeks to get gear for most of my other classes.

 

This is at least some sort of challenge with hopefully more gear still to come with patches. I am sorry for the solo players that you won't be able to get NiM gear. But do you really need it? The game is already too easy. You can one-shot most mobs in the game and solo many Heroics in under a minute. For those that are new here, most of the Heroics were designed for 2 or 4 players. Back in the days, you actually needed to group up to do some of them. Not just run in and kill everything within minutes.

 

If you want better gear, work harder and do harder content.

 

(Queue the outrage.)

Edited November 4, 2021 by Akushii

[Yupicahey]

Hey folks,

We'll be keeping an eye on this thread to answer questions that may have not been answered in the post.

Thanks!

-eric

 

So, this post was left to quite late if the expansion is indeed coming by Holiday 2021. Feels like you'd want feedback from the players on something this important with a bit more time to tweak it before the release?

It might be early days but I'm really hoping to see some response from the Community team considering the feedback that's been poured by the players in these 20-odd pages (at the time of writing).

Are you monitoring just to "answer questions" or are you also monitoring the feelings of the user base?

Are you monitoring these feelings anywhere else as I feel I really want to make myself heard in terms of dissatisfaction with some of the changes.

If some change to the scope and systems is to be done, even after the expansion release, it would be great to hear about it in advance, if the expansion does end up putting me off, I might miss the announcement reverting some of these ill-conceived (and apparently not feedback based?) decisions.

Going through the posts here it's not easy to see the math of how overwhelming ill-received some of these changes are, so I'm just asking for an official reply to this.

Thanks for reading!

[Lord_Arawn]

I am perfectly happy with the new Itemization. the old Renown system was terrible. I hit 306 gear on Day 4 of the expansion. Within a few days after that I had full set of my set bonus gear and had min-maxed gear for my main. Took me 1-2 more weeks to get gear for most of my other classes.

 

This is at least some sort of challenge with hopefully more gear still to come with patches. I am sorry for the solo players that you won't be able to get NiM gear. But do you really need it? The game is already too easy. You can one-shot most mobs in the game and solo many Heroics in under a minute. For those that are new here, most of the Heroics were designed for 2 or 4 players. Back in the days, you actually needed to group up to do some of them. Not just run in and kill everything within minutes.

 

If you want better gear, work harder and do harder content.

 

(Queue the outrage.)

 

It's easy for you to put it in those terms without knowing what each other's life is like, if they actually have so much time to spend on a game. The new Itemization in 7.0 is discriminatory and electic, I doubt that only players with time available and who really like to play in Operations will be able to keep the game, as many lone or casual players will leave or unsubscribe, just like me. This change is a regression to the game, not welcome for most players.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Lord_Arawn

[casirabit]

I am perfectly happy with the new Itemization. the old Renown system was terrible. I hit 306 gear on Day 4 of the expansion. Within a few days after that I had full set of my set bonus gear and had min-maxed gear for my main. Took me 1-2 more weeks to get gear for most of my other classes.

 

This is at least some sort of challenge with hopefully more gear still to come with patches. I am sorry for the solo players that you won't be able to get NiM gear. But do you really need it? The game is already too easy. You can one-shot most mobs in the game and solo many Heroics in under a minute. For those that are new here, most of the Heroics were designed for 2 or 4 players. Back in the days, you actually needed to group up to do some of them. Not just run in and kill everything within minutes.

 

If you want better gear, work harder and do harder content.

 

(Queue the outrage.)

 

Explain what you believe is harder content? Have you tried to do the Master Story content with basic gear or do you even try to do that? I have and it requires better gear. You may ask why I do that and not operations and simple fact I can go through that at my pace and if I get interrupted by my mom (who is bed-ridden) or a telephone call I don't get yell at by a group of people that want to "hurry and finish something."

[Exly]

I am perfectly happy with the new Itemization. the old Renown system was terrible. I hit 306 gear on Day 4 of the expansion. Within a few days after that I had full set of my set bonus gear and had min-maxed gear for my main. Took me 1-2 more weeks to get gear for most of my other classes.

 

This is at least some sort of challenge with hopefully more gear still to come with patches. I am sorry for the solo players that you won't be able to get NiM gear. But do you really need it? The game is already too easy. You can one-shot most mobs in the game and solo many Heroics in under a minute. For those that are new here, most of the Heroics were designed for 2 or 4 players. Back in the days, you actually needed to group up to do some of them. Not just run in and kill everything within minutes.

 

If you want better gear, work harder and do harder content.

 

(Queue the outrage.)

 

Think about it. In order to get the top tier gear, you need to clear the content that provides it. That means that you don't need the gear to complete that content, and the only benefit of getting it is that it makes the content easier to clear the next time. Does that mean that you shouldn't have it because you don't really need it?

[Revenaught]

Think about it. In order to get the top tier gear, you need to clear the content that provides it. That means that you don't need the gear to complete that content, and the only benefit of getting it is that it makes the content easier to clear the next time. Does that mean that you shouldn't have it because you don't really need it?

 

^^^^^^^^^^ This

[JakRoanin]

Explain what you believe is harder content? Have you tried to do the Master Story content with basic gear or do you even try to do that? I have and it requires better gear. You may ask why I do that and not operations and simple fact I can go through that at my pace and if I get interrupted by my mom (who is bed-ridden) or a telephone call I don't get yell at by a group of people that want to "hurry and finish something."

 

That and people shouldn't get "less" when they pay $15 a month to subscribe just like MM players. If they cut my sub price I'll be less upset.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

Think about it. In order to get the top tier gear, you need to clear the content that provides it. That means that you don't need the gear to complete that content, and the only benefit of getting it is that it makes the content easier to clear the next time. Does that mean that you shouldn't have it because you don't really need it?

 

^ So much this.

 

I think this everytime some arrogant raider claims 'you don't need gear to do non-NiM stuff'. (Just to clarify, I have nothing against raiders, just the arrogant elitist types who put down non-NiM raiders). Give NiM raiders sweet cosmetic loot or titles or toys to show off, not gear.

 

I'd argue that it's the less skilled players that benefit from gear more than the skilled players. If you're a little slower with your reflexes, or a little off with the rotation then having better gear helps you make up for that.

 

Even if you are skilled, then having better gear makes you that little bit better so if you get a pug group for MM fp you can make up for group members that's are a little bit less than great at their class/role. Every change for gameplay in 7.0 is shaping up to make things less pug friendly.

[TrixxieTriss]

^ So much this.

 

I think this everytime some arrogant raider claims 'you don't need gear to do non-NiM stuff'. (Just to clarify, I have nothing against raiders, just the arrogant elitist types who put down non-NiM raiders). Give NiM raiders sweet cosmetic loot or titles or toys to show off, not gear.

 

I'd argue that it's the less skilled players that benefit from gear more than the skilled players. If you're a little slower with your reflexes, or a little off with the rotation then having better gear helps you make up for that.

 

Even if you are skilled, then having better gear makes you that little bit better so if you get a pug group for MM fp you can make up for group members that's are a little bit less than great at their class/role. Every change for gameplay in 7.0 is shaping up to make things less pug friendly.

 

Don’t forget people that have ping or connection issues. They should try playing some of the hardest solo content with 300ms ping and say gear doesn’t matter.

[Sounders_Fan]

^ So much this.

 

I think this everytime some arrogant raider claims 'you don't need gear to do non-NiM stuff'. (Just to clarify, I have nothing against raiders, just the arrogant elitist types who put down non-NiM raiders). Give NiM raiders sweet cosmetic loot or titles or toys to show off, not gear.

 

I'd argue that it's the less skilled players that benefit from gear more than the skilled players. If you're a little slower with your reflexes, or a little off with the rotation then having better gear helps you make up for that.

 

Even if you are skilled, then having better gear makes you that little bit better so if you get a pug group for MM fp you can make up for group members that's are a little bit less than great at their class/role. Every change for gameplay in 7.0 is shaping up to make things less pug friendly.

 

the best reward I ever got from a raid; exclusive raid reward mounts. the Tank mount from EC and occasionally the rakata gear from EV are the only items from my time raiding that I even use anymore.

 

the gear rewards may be nice; but those will all be obsolete eventually; sometime quickly.

[Baletraeger]

the gear rewards may be nice; but those will all be obsolete eventually; sometime quickly.

 

Literally guaranteed to be obsolete at the start of the next expansion. The cosmetic rewards and the achievement date are the only things that have any lasting value

Edited November 4, 2021 by Baletraeger

[Meiran]

Ok, my gears will be unusable, but I ask who will return the money spent to leave them in their maximum state? I used my money, the result of my work, to buy Cartel Coins, buy items and sell them on gtn, just to get my gears at the most. With this decision, will Bioware reimburse the money spent?

 

Nothing. Gear is regularly made obsolete. Every time we get a level increase, whatever you currently have becomes worthless. Been this way for 10 years, and if you wanted to spend real money, that's on you. Sorry, but I kinda agree with the rest of your post, just not this bit.

[Akushii]

Think about it. In order to get the top tier gear, you need to clear the content that provides it. That means that you don't need the gear to complete that content, and the only benefit of getting it is that it makes the content easier to clear the next time. Does that mean that you shouldn't have it because you don't really need it?

 

Most raids (with some exceptions), have easier difficulty bosses in the beginning and harder last boss (Styrak, Brontes, Revan, Terror etc.). Which means, that you don't need to the gear to clear the first few bosses, but you most likely will for the last boss. Most prog teams in a system like this (like it is in ALL the top MMORPG), will farm the first few bosses to get the gear, that will be needed to clear the last 1-2 bosses. The gear from the last boss will not matter much. Instead the last boss usually has a vanity item like mounts, decos, titles etc. So yes, the raid provides gear that is required to make progress through the raid. After the first clear, it becomes easier and easier to do reclears with higher gear, so you can get the vanity item for everyone on the team. Check out games like FFXIV and WoW.

 

It's easy for you to put it in those terms without knowing what each other's life is like, if they actually have so much time to spend on a game. The new Itemization in 7.0 is discriminatory and electic, I doubt that only players with time available and who really like to play in Operations will be able to keep the game, as many lone or casual players will leave or unsubscribe, just like me. This change is a regression to the game, not welcome for most players.

 

I don't understand this. If you don't do OPs, you can still get gear up to 330 through the upgrades. ONLY the new Operation and only in Master Mode, can you get up to 334. They have also mentioned that in future patches the ceiling will shift. So in future update, even solo players will be able to go up to 334 gear, while Operations will go up to probably 338 gear. Solo players are only going to be a little behind. If you want the gear faster, do the harder stuff. By the way, I'm not going to be doing NiM version of the operation, so my personal ceiling will probably be 332 at the beginning. The difference between my gear and yours will probably the same as having an additional augment.

 

Explain what you believe is harder content? Have you tried to do the Master Story content with basic gear or do you even try to do that? I have and it requires better gear. You may ask why I do that and not operations and simple fact I can go through that at my pace and if I get interrupted by my mom (who is bed-ridden) or a telephone call I don't get yell at by a group of people that want to "hurry and finish something."

 

This point is completely mute. Master Story is tuned with earlier expansion, where the top tier gear WAS available to everyone. There is no Master Story with the upcoming expansion, so the highest gear will not be necessary. I don't know how they will tune the old Master Story, but I am assuming the required gear for Master Story will be available IN Master Story or otherwise. That is, I am assuming it will be tuned at around 330 gear or less. If I am wrong, then the devs should change that. Plus as I mentioned earlier, the ceiling for gear will change. Meaning 334 gear (and higher) will eventually be available to everyone. At least that is what I understand from the post. Meaning ALL content in game will become easier and easier with each patch.

[Lord_Arawn]

Nothing. Gear is regularly made obsolete. Every time we get a level increase, whatever you currently have becomes worthless. Been this way for 10 years, and if you wanted to spend real money, that's on you. Sorry, but I kinda agree with the rest of your post, just not this bit.

 

I think I didn't express myself very well, an item of yours becoming obsolete due to new ones appearing, you having to change them again to evolve is normal and expected. The problem is that with this new expansion my gears will lose their properties and I won't be able to improve their status. It's a step backwards.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Lord_Arawn

[TrixxieTriss]

I think I didn't express myself very well, an item of yours becoming obsolete due to new ones appearing, you having to change them again to evolve is normal and expected. The problem is that with this new expansion my gears will lose their properties and I won't be able to improve their status. It's a step backwards.

 

Exactly!!!

Not only that, but if you enjoy customising your stats, you can only get access to that vendor if you do operations and open up the max lvl gear. Otherwise you are stuck with cookie cutter builds that you can’t customise.

I don’t understand why Bioware are limiting customisation of peoples stats to only the highest tier.

And we will have to lose stats like alacrity and crit at the expense of having unnecessary accuracy on healers (generally) or on Sorc’s in pvp.

The Ops guys are fine with the changes and think we are all whinging because they say we don’t need the highest lvl gear.

But they fail to understand that the only way we can customise our gear will be if we obtain the highest lvl gear from ops. Which is F#*$ing ridiculous. :mad::mad:

Especially after the last expansion where Bioware went absolutely crazy with way tooooooooo many mod, armor and enhancement types.

They’ve literally gone from one extreme to the other. Too many last expansion to none this expansion.

Why the hell can’t we have an in-between option so that there are as many Mod types as the lowbie vendors have and are available for us to optionally upgrade instead of Bioware deciding cookie cutter stats on unmodable gear.

How much of an ask is that? I think it’s totally reasonable and expected by the players because that’s the way it’s been for 8 years.

If Bioware can do that for the ops guys, then they can bloody do it for everyone else too

That’s one of the main reasons people who don’t do ops are mad. That and the resetting of weeklies that will have our gearing tied to it.

Edited November 5, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Estelindis]

There are a sum total of three changes I like with 7.0:

 

1) Being able to play a different class in an existing story.

2) Weapons being added to costume designer.

3) The tagging changes.

 

As someone with the Collector's Edition that's played since release, a long time subscriber, I absolutely HATE EVERYTHING else about 7.0. Literally everything! The more I read about it the more I dread it!

Pretty much this. Like another poster, I do also like the remnant gear from alliance crates being added to collections. But that's it. I don't like losing abilities we've had for years. I have enjoyed amplifiers and don't like losing those. I would love to be positively surprised, but the more news comes out, the less keen I feel.

 

As a great villain once said:

 

"Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super, (evil laugh) no one will be." - Syndrome

 

It's like applying a cheat code to video game to have your character be the highest level and the best gear. You'll certainly feel your adrenaline pumping from excitement for the first day or so, but eventually it will then quickly begin to lose the satisfaction. Why? Because it took nothing to get where you are now. Getting gear should feel satisfying and well earned. Gear should feel as exciting as it is, because of the challenges you have to face to proclaim such grandeur. The whole reason why sets such as Rakata, Dread Guard, Dread Master, or Revanite were sought after in the first place, was because of hardships you had to endure to obtain these sets.

 

In 6.0 I saw people in full 306, still the highest rated gear, in the first week. I soon followed within the next. It felt like I had nothing to look forward to from doing the higher difficulties other than the occasional mount, maybe some titles, and bragging rights. To me, asking that everyone under the moon having access to the highest gear possible, with having to do very little work for it, just seems self-centered when you consider conquest gear can go up to 338 currently on PTS if you work for it. That should be plenty you need to get you to handle your story and conquest, as well as enough to transition into some group content if you decide that's the route you want to take.

 

If you want to continue to claim that 6.0 is their best iteration of gearing, or that how gearing is going to be handled is not to your preference, go ahead. Do your thing. But don't blindly go putting development down for wanting to try to improve the gearing and social experience with what they're attempting to do. No one's immune to criticism, but try to be objective with it.

. I do much prefer 6.0 gearing because (imo) it wasn't about getting to 306 but about getting all the various possible set bonuses and tacticals, which offered a lot of variety and took a lot of time if you wanted to try everything. But if you just wanted to get a small number of items and play at the highest rating in a relaxed way, you could. I feel like gating the top rating of gear behind particular content, which a lot of people don't want to play, is doing a disservice to the majority of players. You can easily say "you don't need the gear if you're not doing the content." But plenty of people like pursuing a goal just for the sake of it. Consider achievements. That's a whole category of things people don't need but like getting anyway. Just saying "no, you don't need X, so you're wrong to want X, so you can't have it" is, to me, such a wild take... when we are playing a video game... something that literally no one needs. It is precisely just for fun. With the idea of "play your way" (even if that wasn't precisely what we got in all instances), we had an emphasis on every kind of fun being rewarded with gear. I think that was great and I'll be sad to see it go. Edited November 5, 2021 by Estelindis