Itemization in 7.0

[TrixxieTriss]

 

Dear Raider,

I suspect you would not be ok with any other style of play offering higher quality rewards than the style you prefer. If the best gear came only from running laps around fleet, I'm confident you would complain that you have to do something other than raiding to get your gear.

 

Imagine if they had to play ranked pvp and win to gear 😉 Oh the cry’s of anguish would we hear

[JakRoanin]

Imagine if they had to play ranked pvp and win to gear 😉 Oh the cry’s of anguish would we hear

 

As a story player that is slightly less scary then what's happening now.

[Akushii]

Imagine if they had to play ranked pvp and win to gear 😉 Oh the cry’s of anguish would we hear

 

In case you forgot.... they did. Many raiders went into Ranked PvP to collect RPM, so they could craft full set of 300 augments. This was before you could even trade 10K fragments for those.

[Exly]

Better is better. Solo content isn't getting harder. But I am assuming the higher gear ceiling at the top end will also come with harder content whether that's flashpoint or OPs or something else. At the end of the day, it comes down to what content you are running and what you are trying to achieve. IF you want the gear, find a group and go get that gear. It's in the game, there is nothing stopping you from going after it.

 

It will probably surprise you but I am looking forward to getting gear through operations. I plan to work my way up from SM to HM and then to NiM ops with friends. That isn't the issue.

 

Instead the issue is whether I deserve to have better gear than any other player in the game. I don't think so. My money isn't any better than anyone elses, and my choice of activity shouldn't entitle me to better gear than the more casual solo player.

 

At the end of the day, that's how I see things.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Exly

[Akushii]

It will probably surprise you but I am looking forward to getting gear through operations. I plan to work my way up from SM to HM and then to NiM ops with friends. That isn't the issue.

 

Instead the issue is whether I deserve to have better gear than any other player in the game. I don't think so. My money isn't any better than anyone elses, and my choice of activity shouldn't entitle me to better gear than the more casual solo player.

 

At the end of the day, that's how I see things.

 

That's fair enough. I'll leave you with a parting thought. How many casual solo players do you reckon has a full set of 300 augments currently? Have they stopped playing the game or are unable to complete solo content because they can't get their hands on 300 augments and had to settle for 286 augments?

[Ulrah]

That's fair enough. I'll leave you with a parting thought. How many casual solo players do you reckon has a full set of 300 augments currently? Have they stopped playing the game or are unable to complete solo content because they can't get their hands on 300 augments and had to settle for 286 augments?

You mean the 300 augs I can buy off the GTN? The ones that everyone has access to regardless of play style?

 

. . .

[TrixxieTriss]

In case you forgot.... they did. Many raiders went into Ranked PvP to collect RPM, so they could craft full set of 300 augments. This was before you could even trade 10K fragments for those.

 

Right, you mean they wintraded with other raiders at off hours of the morning because they couldn’t beat the actual ranked teams

 

Imagine if they actually had to play solo ranked and win to gear up to play ops.

Edited November 6, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Akushii]

You mean the 300 augs I can buy off the GTN? The ones that everyone has access to regardless of play style?

 

. . .

 

Yes, I am talking about the 300 augs that cost 500-700 mil a piece. That will take upwards of 5-6 Billion credits for a 'casual solo' player to get a full set for one character. Oh wait, they can also farm 30K tech frags a week, in which case it will only take them about 2 months to craft 1 augment and about 6-8 months to get a full set. I must have missed all the casual solo players running around in these 300 augments.

 

Right, you mean they wintraded with other raiders at off hours of the morning because they couldn’t beat the actual ranked teams

 

Imagine if they actually had to play solo ranked and win to gear up to play ops.

 

Those that wintraded should be outright banned. The point being the 'system' was designed such that raiders may have to do Ranked PvP to get gear that is necessary for PvE. The system was bad, and everyone on both sides were unhappy. But everyone also settled down, and here we are. I suspect the same will happen going forward...

Edited November 6, 2021 by Akushii

[Ulrah]

Yes, I am talking about the 300 augs that cost 500-700 mil a piece. That will take upwards of 5-6 Billion credits for a 'casual solo' player to get a full set for one character. Oh wait, they can also farm 30K tech frags a week, in which case it will only take them about 2 months to craft 1 augment and about 6-8 months to get a full set. I must have missed all the casual solo players running around in these 300 augments.

It will cost a raider the same amount. Many have said they are ok with raiders getting gear faster (more rewards), so this is more fair than we are really asking for. The issue with the new system is a complete lack of access to BiS without raiding. We won't even be able to modify our gear...

 

If raiders are so elite, why do they need an advantage over the rest of us? Frankly, why are you not embarrassed to defend this? You are claiming you need an advantage...

[Gokkus]

People have been outraged by changes in SWTOR many times before. Usually I do not share their pessimism and I am not bothered that much by the changes or even like them.

 

This is the first time I agree with the outrage and fear the (quite serious) consequences. Right now I rather they don't release 7.0. I love new content and story yet I would rather wait another year for them if it means they would reconsider the new gearing system.

 

I spoke to one of my guild leaders recently and he honestly believes that when 7.0 hits, the guild will have to be run by a skeleton crew. This guild has been around since launch. That is worrying.

 

No the game won't die, but the update can make me lose my motivation to play. If that happens, I will unsub...after 10 years.

 

Allow me to get modable gear at max level. Lock it behind difficult solo missions or MM FPs, that's fine. But do not punish me for not having the time for OPS. Let OPS players have their superior augments or shinier armor. That is not a major driver for me anyway.

 

Gearing up to the max and the occasional min-maxing is an important goal since there are not enough story updates to keep me (or anyone) going. 6.0 gearing was not perfect, but it kept me busy plenty.

[Phaedruss]

The extent to which raiding requires better gear is entirely dependent on design. You can adjust the same encounter to have identical player difficulty at various levels of gear. A requirement of better gear for raids is a choice.

 

This is almost identically brought up on Vulk's website.

 

At the end of the day, it’s all imaginary anyway. BioWare has to balance content difficulty around some item rating regardless. They could choose to balance Operations around numbers achievable with 320-326 gear or they could require higher tiers of gear like what they currently plan to do for 7.0. BioWare could even choose to eliminate stats provided by gear altogether and just balance content around base stats and the content wouldn’t be any different.

(from Vulkk's website: https://vulkk.com/2021/11/03/how-endgame-gearing-will-work-in-swtor-7-0/ )

 

Imaginary is such a good word choice. The devs can balance this anyway they want, in no way does it have to be tied to gear. This is a choice, not a requirement for challenging/rewarding raids - and this info was held off from being shared with us until a month or so before the xpac drops. How did they think this was going to go over well with the community?

 

Delay the expansion. This clearly is not what the community wants... even a majority of the players you are trying to cater to have expressed they don't want this.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Phaedruss

[Jesseriah]

I don't share the pessimism about modding.

I think it was annoying in many ways and unhelpful to more unexperienced players since there were so many mods that you never actually knew what your BiS is (if you didn't look them up on the internet, which most of the people didn't even bother to do). It was unique to SWTOR, I get that, but I think its not mandatory to have.

[velvet_illusionZ]

why should we, the expierenced players have to suffer, cause some unexpierencend newbies don`t know how to gear and don't give a damn to invest the time to look it up-it ain't hard to understand. If new players don't bother to care about that, they will be gone in no time anyways and won't make the defs any money....on the other way around why should everyone else need to suffer cause the 1% hc/nim raiders need to feel superior....they aren't the ones keeping the game alive either. that is the stupidity this new gearing system is-catering to groups who aren't responsible for keeping the game going. don't gate gear behind content only 1% ever enjoy or play at all. give them extra cosmetics for their dedication but don't do this gearing nonesense which will cause more problems than anything else....

[Lakemine]

From what I have seen on the pts, you can upgrade gear from only level to the next but their are different gear types, and you can't upgrade from the low end type to the high end type. You can only increase levels within the type of gear that you have either equipped, or is in your bag.

 

So you can't upgrade to Rakata gear from Decurion. You can only increase the level of your Decurion gear until you reach the max level for that type of gear.

 

Also I hope people know that because of there being 4 different venders, you are going to have to keep track of 4 different armors sets to upgrade. (one for OPs, one for Conquest, one for FPs and one for PvP. PER CHARACTER.) THATS how complicated this system is. AND farm 4-5 new mats/currencies.

 

Very very VERY bad user experience.

[Lakemine]

Ok, but it will still be inferior to other gear sets that will also get an upgrade, so unless you do the content associated with other gear sets, you will always have inferior gear. It will be a little better, but that doesn't mean that it will be good.

 

Also the rating bump is by 2 rating points. So almost like....nothing?

[Lakemine]

The extent to which raiding requires better gear is entirely dependent on design. You can adjust the same encounter to have identical player difficulty at various levels of gear. A requirement of better gear for raids is a choice.

 

So this "raiders need better gear", as far as I can tell, really boils down to a need to not just feel superior to others (in a video game), but to also actually be superior (due to unfair gear advantage).

 

Dear Raider,

I suspect you would not be ok with any other style of play offering higher quality rewards than the style you prefer. If the best gear came only from running laps around fleet, I'm confident you would complain that you have to do something other than raiding to get your gear.

 

Selfish people do NOT like it at all when others get their "toys" as well. As to why the devs want to focus on that minority of a group and debase the majority I do not get all. Do they really spend more money for EA then the majority of us? That seems to be the only way I can think of as to why the devs seem to be focusing their attention on feedback based from the selfish sector of the game. It doesn't make sense.

[Lakemine]

Reading through this and other threads...

 

I would just like to point out that this is the most overwhelmingly negative feedback I have ever seen. I'll repeat a question that has been asked many times over the last few days:

Who are these changes for?

 

Find who benefits from these changes, and you will find who's feedback the devs are listening too and focusing on.

[Lakemine]

Imagine if they had to play ranked pvp and win to gear 😉 Oh the cry’s of anguish would we hear

 

Oh that would be GLORIOUS! lol

 

Got any popcorn to share? Although I do favor brownies

[Lakemine]

People have been outraged by changes in SWTOR many times before. Usually I do not share their pessimism and I am not bothered that much by the changes or even like them.

 

This is the first time I agree with the outrage and fear the (quite serious) consequences. Right now I rather they don't release 7.0. I love new content and story yet I would rather wait another year for them if it means they would reconsider the new gearing system.

 

I spoke to one of my guild leaders recently and he honestly believes that when 7.0 hits, the guild will have to be run by a skeleton crew. This guild has been around since launch. That is worrying.

 

No the game won't die, but the update can make me lose my motivation to play. If that happens, I will unsub...after 10 years.

 

Allow me to get modable gear at max level. Lock it behind difficult solo missions or MM FPs, that's fine. But do not punish me for not having the time for OPS. Let OPS players have their superior augments or shinier armor. That is not a major driver for me anyway.

 

Gearing up to the max and the occasional min-maxing is an important goal since there are not enough story updates to keep me (or anyone) going. 6.0 gearing was not perfect, but it kept me busy plenty.

 

This ^. 7.0 should be delayed. Its better to have a working HAPPY 11th anniversary, then a broken hated and reviled 10th anniversary.

 

Also the other worrying thing is the mass amount of incoming bugs. ON TOP of this negative feedback/outrage? Oh man......its going to be bad.

 

Also slightly off topic, but Battlefield 2042 launches on Nov 12th. Its an EA game as well. And the trailer that just dropped is dropped frame rates. The Beta was full of bugs and broken. The reason I bring this up, is that's a NEW game with TONS more devs and money funneled into it, how much more so do you think 7.0 will be broken?

 

Also the other reason I say to delay 7.0 is for the devs/employees. Trying to jam THIS amount of changes and new things into the end of the year? AND with this amount of negativity from players? It is not going to go well. Please please PLEASE delay 7.0. I think most others will agree. Yeah, there will be some who are upset that can't play "NEW SHINYS NOW!:mad:" but those are people just throwing tantrums and I highly doubt that they are the majority. I think the majority would be ok with a delay, too refine more of these changes, tweek them more and polish them up. AND the devs get more breathing room and don't need to stress over it WITH a time crunch on top of it.

 

Please delay, for both the players sake and the devs sake. I don't want to see this game end, and its a symbiotic relationship between us and the devs. Please don't make it toxic.

[Lakemine]

why should we, the expierenced players have to suffer, cause some unexpierencend newbies don`t know how to gear and don't give a damn to invest the time to look it up-it ain't hard to understand. If new players don't bother to care about that, they will be gone in no time anyways and won't make the defs any money....on the other way around why should everyone else need to suffer cause the 1% hc/nim raiders need to feel superior....they aren't the ones keeping the game alive either. that is the stupidity this new gearing system is-catering to groups who aren't responsible for keeping the game going. don't gate gear behind content only 1% ever enjoy or play at all. give them extra cosmetics for their dedication but don't do this gearing nonesense which will cause more problems than anything else....

 

I would slightly tweek the numbers. I feel its actually more like 3-5% that HM/NIM raid. (Meaning the newer ones like Rav, ToS, Gods and Dxun) if its other HMs (EV, KP, EC, DF, DP, TFB and SnV) it goes up it maybe around 20%. SO just a slight nitpick there. BUT you are still accurate, why should the small (most selfish. not ALL HM/NIM are jerks, just most are) selfish minority dictate how the majority else plays?

 

It is very sad indeed to see that mindset and world view infiltrate and infect the SWTOR devs. Hopefully the amount of negative feedback here shows what the majority think and they listen. (Even if history shows us other wise. "Those who forget history, are doomed to repeat it." ALWAYS. Its not an "if" or "maybe", ALWAYS.)

[TrixxieTriss]

This ^. 7.0 should be delayed. Its better to have a working HAPPY 11th anniversary, then a broken hated and reviled 10th anniversary.

 

Also the other worrying thing is the mass amount of incoming bugs. ON TOP of this negative feedback/outrage? Oh man......its going to be bad.

 

Also slightly off topic, but Battlefield 2042 launches on Nov 12th. Its an EA game as well. And the trailer that just dropped is dropped frame rates. The Beta was full of bugs and broken. The reason I bring this up, is that's a NEW game with TONS more devs and money funneled into it, how much more so do you think 7.0 will be broken?

 

Also the other reason I say to delay 7.0 is for the devs/employees. Trying to jam THIS amount of changes and new things into the end of the year? AND with this amount of negativity from players? It is not going to go well. Please please PLEASE delay 7.0. I think most others will agree. Yeah, there will be some who are upset that can't play "NEW SHINYS NOW!:mad:" but those are people just throwing tantrums and I highly doubt that they are the majority. I think the majority would be ok with a delay, too refine more of these changes, tweek them more and polish them up. AND the devs get more breathing room and don't need to stress over it WITH a time crunch on top of it.

 

Please delay, for both the players sake and the devs sake. I don't want to see this game end, and its a symbiotic relationship between us and the devs. Please don't make it toxic.

 

I second this for all the same reasons. I’m happy to wait a few more months. Maybe consider a 2022 March - May launch window after you walk back on some of these crazy ideas and also crush as many bugs as possible.

Edited November 6, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

.on the other way around why should everyone else need to suffer cause the 1% hc/nim raiders need to feel superior....they aren't the ones keeping the game alive either. that is the stupidity this new gearing system is-catering to groups who aren't responsible for keeping the game going. don't gate gear behind content only 1% ever enjoy or play at all. give them extra cosmetics for their dedication but don't do this gearing nonesense which will cause more problems than anything else....

 

Different circumstances of people Disabilities, and other health problems, time constraints, work obligations, family, and Real Life in general all impacts us in different ways. If we the subscribers pay monthly for the Devs to do their jobs gearing should not be gated. Granted, we should have more activities to earn the best gear. But we deserve it too!

[xwesler]

It was said in the first post that this thread would be watched and questions answered...

 

My question from page 5, as far as I can tell, still hasn't been answered and I thought it was a fairly simple one - are the legacy perks for Renown going to 1CC or not? If they are, which ones? Because I just had to pay 25+CC for each progressive 2% boost for my character *after* this announcement was made, to try and get a few classes to 100 before renown goes away.

[chaharbagh]

Will all the items in the Renown Stash be removed forever if we do not get them before 7.0?

 

I am still waiting for an official answer.

[Akushii]

It will cost a raider the same amount. Many have said they are ok with raiders getting gear faster (more rewards), so this is more fair than we are really asking for. The issue with the new system is a complete lack of access to BiS without raiding. We won't even be able to modify our gear...

 

If you had read the previous posts, I wouln't have to reiterate again. As time goes, new patches will drop and the ceiling of gear will be raised. Which means, the current max level may be unreachable to everyone on launch, but will be reachable in one of the following patch (even if it is 6 months from now).

 

If raiders are so elite, why do they need an advantage over the rest of us? Frankly, why are you not embarrassed to defend this? You are claiming you need an advantage...

 

I never said they needed an advantage. I even state that I myself will most likely not get these gear. I will most likely be running a lot of Flashpoints to gear up. I am simply saying that the reward should fit the work you put into it. An intern doesn't get to earn as much money as a 20 year senior manager at a company. The more work you put in, the better gear you should get. This applies to PvP as well, if you are doing Ranked PvP, you should have access to higher gear based on your Ranked PvP Rating. WoW and Final Fantasy 14 (the top two MMORPG in the world), has the same gearing system. Solo play gets you so much gear. Raiding and Rated PvP gets you higher gear. Most games that have gearing system does the same thing. The harder content that you are able to do, the better items that you get. This cannot be a foreign concept to anyone that has played more then a few games.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Akushii