6.1.4 Conquest Feedback

[SmorgishBorg]

INVASION TARGETS INVASION TARGETS INVASION TARGETS - 3 Worlds isn't enough for guilds to conquest for during the week.. The overwhelming amount of conquest only MILL GUILDS and COAL MINES make the system the way it is Untenable, Unbeatable, and NOT for every guild . 6-10 Invasion Targets would bring LIFE into the conquesting areas of the game and more players interested in getting there own teams there goal. No one likes a forced conquest, and having to be in guilds you don't want to be in for some achievements and titles is not how you bring life or social gaming out in newer guilds, or guilds focused on other aspects. MORE INVASION TARGETS on the conquest weeks will bring more people out, to there own guilds to work on getting them what they need to get there ships built and titles for the players that have NO interest in being just a random conquesting set of numbers for a guild that isn't their home.

 

I've said it since 3.0, got forum warnings for saying it... and now I'm saying it again... MORE INVASION TARGETS!!

[Crystal_Mind]

All Bonus Series Missions will now only appear when the planet in question is an invadable planet for that specific Conquest.

 

I know this is a tiny, easily-overlookable thing, but am I reading this correctly? The bonus series missions that they just made repeatable are now only to be playable when that planet cycles through conquest?

 

This takes us back to an old chronology problem: some of the bonus series (looking at Taris and Balmorra, for example) take place immediately after their planetary arcs. Back in the 4.0 era, all the bonus series got bumped up to level 60, effectively removing them from the leveling process. 6.1.1 was great because it brought them back as useful content for all players, both those leveling characters and those seeking repeatable objectives for conquest. Now, I take my time with class stories, and I happen to enjoy sidequests, so it's been nice that they can be picked up at the "appropriate" time in the story. If I read this correctly, that will no longer be an option. Unless a toon happens to be running Balmorra the same week that Balmorra is on the invadable planets list, they have no ability at all to do the bonus series. It's just another conquest daily.

 

Trying to follow the logic here. You want more people to play them, so you make it a repeatable objective. But the impact isn't as hoped, so... you gate them behind conquest weeks? So it must not be about the bonus series at all; you're just trying to diversify conquest objectives based on what's already in the game. To which I say that this choice seems like a significant step backwards. By tying the bonus series directly to planet invasions, you remove them from one playstyle experience (solo-story play), and give them exclusively to another (conquest-as-endgame play).

Edited September 23, 2020 by Crystal_Mind
misword

[casirabit]

When it comes to that 500k haul you pulled in 2.5 hours yesterday..what made it so much less fun when compared to stuff you've been doing on live servers? You don't like to be more tied to completing the weekly missions or what? You mentioned Iokath..what else?

 

And correct me if wrong, were you not the one throwing a fit because you couldn't do your favorite activity and now you have the nerve to complain about someone else saying they didn't like something. I think there is a saying for that......

[Revenaught]

Well you have buffed everything I don’t do by half or more. You have nerfed almost everything I do by around half. You want my opinion on it all. BITE ME! How’s that? As part of a very small guild who doesn’t find opportunity to do large group activities about all I have to do for end game content is earn conquest rewards to work on the marathon that is small guild ship expansion. You have now just said we don’t value you or your play style. You might as well just remove points for anything other than operationS and pvp and convince me to leave now instead of dragging things out. Maybe it’s time to find another game to spend time and money on.

[Stradlin]

You are projecting your own preferences onto someone else, and then questioning that person's preferences.

You seem to be responding to someting I never said. It is very useful to do that when hungry enough for something to argue.

 

He mentioned that despite getting a ton of points on test server, it is less fun and more annoying. So I asked why. What made it less fun and more annoying? How what he did on TC differs from what he considers the norm.. It is a valid and useful thing to talk about here. I do not know the exact ways how his routine on live server differs from what he did on TC. So I asked. I'm not sure what in it buys some epic rant about how we like the things we like. I assume projection def makes the currency here.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

And correct me if wrong, were you not the one throwing a fit because you couldn't do your favorite activity and now you have the nerve to complain about someone else saying they didn't like something. I think there is a saying for that......

 

 

" What I did on TC was less fun and more annoying that how I play on live"

" How was it less fun and more annoying?How did it differ?" < - - You consider this a bad and out of place question to ask on Test Center forums? Wanting to find out what has chnaged for him is`..precisely how much less constructive than your own posting about your personal TC boycot? I guess you were just very needy to get to do some pecking.

 

 

I guess the big deal here is having to do a weekly area instead of jumping aroumd, doing heroic here another there? I totally get it, latter is bit more fun imo. I don't personally see a huge difference between them as activities, but heroic tourism with more options and more sceneries is a bit better.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Stradlin

[xordevoreaux]

I know this is a tiny, easily-overlookable thing, but am I reading this correctly? The bonus series missions that they just made repeatable are now only to be playable when that planet cycles through conquest?

You read right.

 

Look on the bright side: You'll be able to get your laundry done and wash and wax your car waiting in line while everyone hogs the same few conquest objectives.

Edited September 23, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[Sarfux]

I'm glad you are making adjustments relative to the content, and are rewarding higher challenging things or longer things, and then taking some points off of the things like taxi or stuff like that. I'm VERY GLAD you didn't listen to the complainers of the conquest overhaul you guys recently did, and just nerf everything across the board like they wanted. Thanks for taking the time to actually observe REALISTIC changes, and not just listen to certain people on this forum that have been wanting you to nerf everything

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

^ - You actually tested stuff? Darev seems to be doing pretty well:

 

 

 

 

Spending 2.5 hours/day by being busy mostly with planetaries/daily areas and their orbiting weeklies earns 250k conq for a solo player who knows what he is doing. You recon it too little? How much do you think you should get per hour?

 

I did actually test stuff, yes. You don't need to test stuff anyway to see the nerfs to heroic missions, go back and look at previous numbers I posted and in the OP. Heroic missions no longer appear for all planets, so the daily objectives you think planetaries have aren't actually there. On this week, of the non starter/core planets and daily areas, only Corellia has objectives. In addition, with these changes and the full SH bonus, you're looking at 8k points total for a heroic mission, and that's with every objective (the new Heroic Missions, Defeat Enemies I since II was removed for these planets, and the generic Heroic Mission and Bonus Mission objectives). Once you've done the two generics, that cuts in half to 4k. And with the limitations this week, there are a total of 7 planets to do these objectives on, not all of which are open to each character since it's mostly comprised of starter/core planets. Once you're done with those planets, there are no objectives at all. So if you want to go do something on Tatooine, for instance? Too bad. This is an extreme nerf.

 

I did some quick math, the amount of planetary objectives has, at the very least, been cut in half. There's roughly 57 including all daily areas and planetary heroics, and that is mostly comprised by daily areas. The daily areas can be fun, but they fulfill a different aspect of the game for me. I like heroics because they take me back to the game's base planets (the iconic ones, Tatooine, Hoth, Alderaan, Tython, etc) and tend to connect more with the class stories than the dailies do. Some heroics have voiced cutscenes, something most dailies definitely don't have. Even if you think they serve the same purpose, though, they no longer come anywhere close to each other in rewards. Dailies offer almost everything heroics do, but heroics are far less rewarding with Conquest points now. You'd be better off spending that time doing dailies.

 

As I said previously, I'm glad harder/group/pvp content got buffed. I do some of that content on occasion and it's nice to see it getting good Conquest rewards too, and even the stuff I don't do should still be good for those that like it. That buff, however, did not need to come alongside nerfing heroics into the ground and making an entire subset of content obsolete. The whole goal of this rebalancing, according to David himself, is "offering additional avenues for players to participate in Conquests without feeling like they have to choose Conquests over an activity that they want to participate in." Except for heroics, because now when you do heroics, you have to choose them over Conquest, because they're so unrewarding for Conquest with these changes you could be doing almost anything else and getting more points. There were ways to do this that still nerfed heroics but didn't nuke them from orbit. But Bioware did as Bioware does, they heard complaints that heroics were too good and utterly destroyed them as a result.

[Sarfux]

" What I did on TC was less fun and more annoying that how I play on live"

" How was it less fun and more annoying?How did it differ?" < - - You consider this a bad and out of place question to ask on Test Center forums? Wanting to find out what has chnaged for him is`..precisely how much less constructive than your own posts about some TC boycot? I guess you were just very needy to get to do some pecking.

 

 

I guess the big deal here is having to do a weekly area instead of jumping aroumd, doing heroic here another there? I totally get it, latter is bit more fun imo.

 

you are hilarious. you were throwing a FIT all of these months because they wouldnt listen to you or nerf conquest across the board, because you had some obsession with the way you played, and felt the changes were too much. And you attacked and used psychological tactics in the form of the way you talk, to talk down to others who did like it a lot. And now that they are actually changing it realistically to the point where it's more points for harder things, and less points for easier things, you make it seem you LIKE you are the one that pushed them there, or had a hand in it. lol. where do you people come from?

 

Get over yourself Stradlin. The universe or the game doesn't revolve around you.

[Sarfux]

I did actually test stuff, yes. You don't need to test stuff anyway to see the nerfs to heroic missions, go back and look at previous numbers I posted and in the OP. Heroic missions no longer appear for all planets, so the daily objectives you think planetaries have aren't actually there. On this week, of the non starter/core planets and daily areas, only Corellia has objectives. In addition, with these changes and the full SH bonus, you're looking at 8k points total for a heroic mission, and that's with every objective (the new Heroic Missions, Defeat Enemies I since II was removed for these planets, and the generic Heroic Mission and Bonus Mission objectives). Once you've done the two generics, that cuts in half to 4k. And with the limitations this week, there are a total of 7 planets to do these objectives on, not all of which are open to each character since it's mostly comprised of starter/core planets. Once you're done with those planets, there are no objectives at all. So if you want to go do something on Tatooine, for instance? Too bad. This is an extreme nerf.

 

I did some quick math, the amount of planetary objectives has, at the very least, been cut in half. There's roughly 57 including all daily areas and planetary heroics, and that is mostly comprised by daily areas. The daily areas can be fun, but they fulfill a different aspect of the game for me. I like heroics because they take me back to the game's base planets (the iconic ones, Tatooine, Hoth, Alderaan, Tython, etc) and tend to connect more with the class stories than the dailies do. Some heroics have voiced cutscenes, something most dailies definitely don't have. Even if you think they serve the same purpose, though, they no longer come anywhere close to each other in rewards. Dailies offer almost everything heroics do, but heroics are far less rewarding with Conquest points now. You'd be better off spending that time doing dailies.

 

As I said previously, I'm glad harder/group/pvp content got buffed. I do some of that content on occasion and it's nice to see it getting good Conquest rewards too, and even the stuff I don't do should still be good for those that like it. That buff, however, did not need to come alongside nerfing heroics into the ground and making an entire subset of content obsolete. The whole goal of this rebalancing, according to David himself, is "offering additional avenues for players to participate in Conquests without feeling like they have to choose Conquests over an activity that they want to participate in." Except for heroics, because now when you do heroics, you have to choose them over Conquest, because they're so unrewarding for Conquest with these changes you could be doing almost anything else and getting more points. There were ways to do this that still nerfed heroics but didn't nuke them from orbit. But Bioware did as Bioware does, they heard complaints that heroics were too good and utterly destroyed them as a result.

 

Dont bother getting into it with him. He's just looking for an argument. He's arrogant, over the top and wants to look like he knows all and is right all the time. I know his kind ALL to well. Just tell him off and move on. Make him think he's the god of the universe. He has to live with that thought, we don't

 

I'm glad bioware is making REALISTIC changes and not just nerfing things across the board for the sake of the complainers.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

I'm glad bioware is making REALISTIC changes and not just nerfing things across the board for the sake of the complainers.

 

This is my issue. They nerfed heroics into the ground, way harder than necessary. Heroics are now completely obsolete for level 75 characters.

[casirabit]

Well you have buffed everything I don’t do by half or more. You have nerfed almost everything I do by around half. You want my opinion on it all. BITE ME! How’s that? As part of a very small guild who doesn’t find opportunity to do large group activities about all I have to do for end game content is earn conquest rewards to work on the marathon that is small guild ship expansion. You have now just said we don’t value you or your play style. You might as well just remove points for anything other than operationS and pvp and convince me to leave now instead of dragging things out. Maybe it’s time to find another game to spend time and money on.

 

You might try WoW. I was surprised when I went to try it to find a lot more solo things than it originally had a few years ago. Not sure if that is your cup of tea or not, just a suggestion.

[xordevoreaux]

You might try WoW. I was surprised when I went to try it to find a lot more solo things than it originally had a few years ago. Not sure if that is your cup of tea or not, just a suggestion.

 

I'm still in a guild in Everquest 2 that I was leader of for 7 years. Wonder how my guildies would feel about exchanging tossing lightning and rocks for tossing ice shards and fireballs.

[RikuvonDrake]

Guess what? I enjoy doing dailies. I enjoy doing the planet bonus missions (well, most of them) and I enjoyed being able to hop around and do different planets as the whim struck me. Most of the time I enjoy doing heroics. I did not enjoy doing heroics when those heroics were limited to the planet that was being invaded because there were way too many people competing for the same objectives even if you grouped up with others. I do not like that they're changing back to that, it's far too limiting.

 

Nothing BioWare says or does is going to make me participate in Ops or PVP. Even if they make them required for main story progression (because in that case I quit the game entirely). Really all they had to do was up the points for those activities to help out the people who enjoyed doing those activities. They did not need to touch solo content points.

 

honestly, I don't care what content you do, if you like doing dailies then do them, if you don't like doing operations or pvp then don't do them, I don't see how these changes to conquest has any effect on what you like or don't like doing. perhaps at the end of the day you will have a few hundred less conquest points and if that really ruins your day I would advice you rethink what makes you happy

[Stradlin]

 

As I said previously, I'm glad harder/group/pvp content got buffed. I do some of that content on occasion and it's nice to see it getting good Conquest rewards too, and even the stuff I don't do should still be good for those that like it. That buff, however, did not need to come alongside nerfing heroics into the ground and making an entire subset of content obsolete. The whole goal of this rebalancing, according to David himself, is "offering additional avenues for players to participate in Conquests without feeling like they have to choose Conquests over an activity that they want to participate in." Except for heroics, because now when you do heroics, you have to choose them over Conquest, because they're so unrewarding for Conquest with these changes you could be doing almost anything else and getting more points. There were ways to do this that still nerfed heroics but didn't nuke them from orbit. But Bioware did as Bioware does, they heard complaints that heroics were too good and utterly destroyed them as a result.

 

Yeah agreed. It keeps feeling as if BW treated conq points as some rare natural resource. As if BW were somehow unable to hand it out in great quantities for just about every playsytle. There is no need to nerf Y just in order to buff X. Elevating GSF and rest of the multiplayer exclusive content so it is in the same ballpark with solo stuff would have been enough. It doesn 't require a nerf of anything to do that.

 

I'm guessing BW figured they...

A) ..Had to buff multiplayer exclusive stuff cause let's face it: disparity was utterly obscene.

B) ..Also felt that due to [reasons], they do not want to buff multiplayer content SO MUCH that it'd get anywhere near where planetaries are now. So they buffed multiplayer by half and nerfed planetaries by half.. As resullt, stuff meets in the middle. Yet to test anything properly on TC but I'm guessing planetaries remain quite a bit better still. I'm betting numbers are in the same approximate ballpark though.

 

 

 

It is kinda frustrating way to to do things.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Stradlin

[JediJoy]

This is patently false based on the information provided. You think changing the Objective per week adds variety. It does so with respect to time series variation, but not cross-sectional. We are not fools.

 

Literally every recent change Chris has proposed / implemented since taking over as Design Director I have opposed. This is no different.

 

I don't need to go to the PTS. I am quite capable of reading and math and believe these changes are etched in stone based on precedent (w/ exception being one SH). But so we're clear, you are not adding variety; rather, quite to the contrary, you are pigeon-holing.

 

Dasty

 

Dasty has spoken; it is the way.

 

Devs, WTH??? just no. flat out no. This is going to kill small guilds and solo players. Restrictions to the way people like to play will only hurt your profit line in the end. I quit when 5.6 hit. I just came back to the game and was starting to enjoy myself via conquest.

 

Ive already purchased WoW's new expac. Dont force my hand. I want to stay with Swtor, but you have to give me a reason to stay. These changes are not it. These changes will force more people to leave the game.

[Revenaught]

You might try WoW. I was surprised when I went to try it to find a lot more solo things than it originally had a few years ago. Not sure if that is your cup of tea or not, just a suggestion.

 

I do have a WoW account. I hadn’t planned on getting the upcoming expansion but I’m beginning to waver on that decision. I have the same problem there though, just not a lot todo endgame if your not part of a large active guild.

[casirabit]

Dasty has spoken; it is the way.

 

Devs, WTH??? just no. flat out no. This is going to kill small guilds and solo players. Restrictions to the way people like to play will only hurt your profit line in the end. I quit when 5.6 hit. I just came back to the game and was starting to enjoy myself via conquest.

 

Ive already purchased WoW's new expac. Dont force my hand. I want to stay with Swtor, but you have to give me a reason to stay. These changes are not it. These changes will force more people to leave the game.

 

I have the new expansion. I was toying with having both subs but with this. Now I just need to convince my guild, which will probably be easier thanks to this mess.

[Shinian]

I don't play WOW but I have loads of single player games I could be doing.

 

Changes to group content are fine but this is bad for solo players.

 

Especially if they're limiting several objectives to below 50. It's absurdly easy to get leveled past 50 these days, so even people still doing story content will be locked out of a lot of conquest points. I don't think they have thought this through.

 

Also, having only the starter planets open to level 50+ conquest will make them hell for new characters.

[DavidStaats]

Hi all!

 

First and foremost thank you all for the feedback!

 

Here are some of the major points of feedback I am seeing:

 

• Feedback regarding locking Planetary Heroic Objectives to their planet being an available planet to invade. You would like to see these available at all times.
  
• Feedback regarding locking Planetary Defeat Enemies to their planet being an available planet to invade. You would like to see these available at all times.
  
• Feedback regarding solo based Objectives being overly reduced.

 

Our goal with locking Heroic and Defeat Enemy objectives to their planets was two fold; we wanted to create some variability to Conquests from week to week, while also working to streamline the increasing number of Objectives a 71+ player has.

 

Our Objective balance goal is to bring the points a player can obtain per minute more in line across all Objectives. Unfortunately this means that some of the more accessible and easy to complete objectives had to have their points reduced. One of the main points of feedback regarding point reduction we are seeing is directly related to the Defeat Enemies objectives.

 

We are discussing the above feedback and considering options for our 6.1.4 release of Conquests.

 

Again, thank you all for the continued feedback!

[Crystal_Mind]

honestly, I don't care what content you do, if you like doing dailies then do them, if you don't like doing operations or pvp then don't do them, I don't see how these changes to conquest has any effect on what you like or don't like doing...

 

Normally I wouldn't disagree with this sentiment, but specific objections--beyond sheer point accumulation--have been listed in this thread. Namely: queue times on invasion targets (especially for heroics), and the removal of the bonus series outside of their planetary invasion week.

 

I don't go out of my way for conquest, but some people do. For a seemingly significant chunk of the playerbase, conquest is endgame, and by limiting (and removing...) certain planetary objectives, it changes the environment in which those objectives are pursued. Now, instead of all the players who run heroics for conquest being spread across the galaxy map, they'll be funneled into just a couple planets, and that has ramifications.

 

...Most of the time I enjoy doing heroics. I did not enjoy doing heroics when those heroics were limited to the planet that was being invaded because there were way too many people competing for the same objectives even if you grouped up with others. I do not like that they're changing back to that, it's far too limiting

 

Point balancing is one thing. This is another.

[DarkTergon]

I've said it before, the devs / community managers, have a pool going to see who can piss of the most people. I think chris just took first place.... Edited September 23, 2020 by DarkTergon

[Stradlin]

Now I've seen first hand how many planetary missions been dropped from the menu. There still remains many more than I ever care to do in a day but I totally get its annoying for those who liked doing a ton of planetaries for conquest.

 

Giving around 100 of these to people and then taking so many away few months later is frustrating. Gating good conq behind weekly missions of old daily areas is a step backwards I think.Spamming few missions of each planet and then changing the scenery is more fun and versatile than returning to Y4 and Cz for weekly every day.

 

Yet, if this exact patch had been released instead of 6.1.1, everybody would have been quite happy I bet.

 

 

I think it'd be a good idea to utilize those "do X heroic missions on Planet Y" -missions you always get when initialöly porting to planet and mission terminal via activity finder. Nice fat pile of completing that would be nice.Replacement/alternative to old weekly areas.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Stradlin

[juliushorst]

Needless changes.