Season 13 and the Future of PvP

[KingDeathII]

Eh excuse me, I for one am very glad that 4v4 isn't a part of the regular unranked warzones queue outside of said extremes

 

All it does is slap any 8 players into a map without any regard for role structure and the experience itself is just awful due to the general lack of knowledge of the players themselves.

 

If you want to play 4v4, just play ranked. That's literally what that is.

 

It's not about wanting to play Arenas. It's about diluting the ma rotation so that the majority of maps ARENT Huttball.

 

Right now most of the maps are Huttball so we get Huttball often. If you throw Arenas into that randomness, we get less Huttball.

 

The solution to less Huttball is to add Arenas into the queue rotation

[-Bob-]

I'm impressed with the feedback from Chris, I don't think that we've ever had this level of communication or transparency in the past. It's a welcome change.

Thank you.

[Evolixe]

It's not about wanting to play Arenas. It's about diluting the ma rotation so that the majority of maps ARENT Huttball.

 

Right now most of the maps are Huttball so we get Huttball often. If you throw Arenas into that randomness, we get less Huttball.

 

The solution to less Huttball is to add Arenas into the queue rotation

 

Did you even read the post in yellow?

 

They are making it so that it first rolls a type and then selects any map of that type. Meaning that the chance to get any huttball map is equal to the chance of getting a Voidstar/AHG/Capture point and in a lesser sense OPG.

 

The fact that there are more huttball maps will play exactly 0 role in how likely it is you will get one.

Not only that, they are taking all of the huttball maps out of the rotation completely except OG huttball, very soon.

[abhaxus]

First, thank you so much for this response to the criticism.

 

Hey Friends,

 

<snip>

 

Performance

 

We hear you that performance in warzones continues to be an issue, especially since the 6.0 update. In particular, you have all indicated performance in the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps are especially egregious.

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will remove the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps from rotation until we can solve the performance issues with those particular maps.

 

Longer term, we are profiling the root of performance issues in general (de-syncs, hitches, slide show experiences) across the board in order to provide you with a smooth, fun experience. No ETA on this, but we have already begun in earnest and are committed to fixing it.

Primarily the de-syncing issue is most noticeable when changing elevation with a speed boost ability- when a consular/inquisitor sprints up or down a ramp, or an operative rolls for example. Quesh and Vandin are most affected because of the large changes in height that are possible, and the fact that a player who becomes untargetable for several seconds can make a huge difference to the outcome of the objective play. Alderaan and Yavin also can suffer from this issue but it only affects the outcome of individual battles, rather than a player de'syncing and scoring as a result. I believe most "stealth caps" people complain about are de-sync issues as well (from players sprinting or rolling into the door and capping).

 

Hope that helps point in the right direction.

Preference

 

We hear you that you would rather choose which maps or modes to play, to avoid the ones you don’t like and play what is the most fun for you. In particular, Odessen Proving Grounds comes up often as one of the least popular modes, in particular in Unranked since it can be difficult to coordinate team play in a random queue situation.

Personally I think the issue with OPG is the RNG factor. The map is only fun when the RNG aspect ends up in balanced play. I think the fixes are pretty easy:

 

1) Make the active nodes rotate on a set pattern. First round, middle, north, and east. Second round, south and west. On the off round, make middle spawn a random battle mod.

a) This gives teams a strategic incentive to fight and hold mid, but in doing so, they are potentially at a disadvantage for grabbing south in the second round (but might get an activation mod in exchange).

b) A team that holds south will have an advantage getting mid the 3rd round.

 

2) Rather than have the battle mods rotate randomly at all 4 corners, have each corner spawn a set mod, which also rotates every round on a set pattern. Put the activation mod in the opposite corner from the active nodes each around (so by my schedule in (1), in first round, activation would be in southwest. Then North east in 2nd round). Put the deactivation mod in the same corner as the two active nodes. Again, this will give players the opportunity to make strategic choices.

 

These two changes will reduce the "lost player" element that can happen when you happen to be out of place between rounds. You'll always know where to go to find some action. You can make a choice to run to the right corner to pick up a certain mod. The mini-map can display what mod is in what corner, which will help with the learning curve. Anything is better than RNG.

So let’s talk a bit about the map rotation. Currently, and for some time now, we favor map variety over match type variety.

 

<snip>

 

In favoring map variety, each map has an equal chance to pop once a match is created.

 

One note about Arena maps - they are not in the regular rotation, and will only pop when there is insufficient population to support an 8v8 match. So you will most often see these in lower level brackets or when the queues have low population in general. An arena match should be relatively rare.

 

You should make 4 man groups in queue have a high weight to pop arenas when there are 2 or more groups in queue. I think the vast majority of groups would prefer this. There are a few groups that queue on SS with a focus on objective play, and they ruin the maps with quick "wins." Personally I believe 'average' players can handle getting farmed for DPS/HPS numbers as long as they feel they can win the objectives. But when they are getting beaten in 2 minutes in huttball or voidstar by a group that has heal/tank/2 dps, it's harder to enjoy themselves.

Back to map variety, you would be right to note if each map is equally weighted, you are three times as likely to get a Capture Point or Huttball match type than any other, since there are three times as many maps in those modes.

 

So if you’re a player who dislikes one particular mode, particularly if that mode is OPG, why should you be forced to play it?

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will adjust the map rotation to favor match variety over map variety. What this means is that you will have an equal chance to have a Capture Point, Huttball, Ancient Hypergates, or Voidstar match type pop.

 

The exception is OPG, which we hear from y’all is the least popular match type currently. We aren’t removing it completely from the rotation for now, but the likelihood that match type will pop will be very small. Longer term we will take a hard look and address the issues with OPG that makes it less popular.

 

This is huge, and thank you so much for listening to players. This will make a big difference on its own.

 

Longer term, we agree that a welcomed and healthy addition to the game would be the ability to choose which match types and/or maps you want or do not want to play. As with any new feature, this requires investigation and an assessment of the scope of work before we can commit to a timeframe, however that work has already begun. We are committed to this feature and will update y’all with more information, especially on timing, when we have it.

 

<snip>

 

-Chris

I submit for your consideration that ranked choice would be a great way to do this vs a basic filter, if the resources are available for it of course.

 

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to this thread. You might have a thankless job sometimes, but the reality is we are all playing this game because we enjoy it.

[Stellarcrusade]

OPG is my fav match, however the thing that ruins it is 2 things: 1.) Snipers can cancel a node and opponents can not do anything about it, and 2.) Friendly can cancel your teams controlled node. This is total bs when a friendly can ruin an entire match with one button press. (also unstoppable)

 

Fix these 2, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the OPG, and really, I'd be more likely to drop out of EVERY other wartype so I get to do at least 1 or 2 OPGs a night.

[KendraP]

So since it takes "investigation and assessment" to give players the capability to exclude maps they do not wish to play, does that mean the lockout gets delayed too?

[Raansu]

OPG is my fav match, however the thing that ruins it is 2 things: 1.) Snipers can cancel a node and opponents can not do anything about it, and 2.) Friendly can cancel your teams controlled node. This is total bs when a friendly can ruin an entire match with one button press. (also unstoppable)

 

Fix these 2, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the OPG, and really, I'd be more likely to drop out of EVERY other wartype so I get to do at least 1 or 2 OPGs a night.

 

Entrenched snipers with the node cancel mod drive me absolutely insane. They defintely need to fix that.

[zerglord]

You forgot big one, class balance, current balance is not good!!!

When can we expect next class balance?

Now that wins are even more important you will have only few classes in ranked, please fix this.

[Beyrahl]

I hope you guys include Yavin ruins in with Vandin and Quesh huttball. There are not only useless animations in Yavin but there are also a lot of camera issues.

For example on Vandin.

- There's a ship that comes in and lands then takes off at random times on both sides. You literally do not notice this unless you're intentionally hanging out there.

- There are animations of lava or fire explosions on the map floor all over, realistically we don't even see these unless again intentionally on the sides.

 

Quesh huttball

- Grapple up causes tons of desync.

- Multiple floors cause tons of desync.

- Inzone camping by ranged is abused heavily. (Unranked PvP is sometimes full of ranged only, this is a huge problem imo.)

 

Yavin Ruins

- There's literal butterfly or fly animations over by bushes for no reason.

- The trees are extremely overbearing causing camera issues.

- The walls for coming into mid cause a lot of camera panning issues removing UI elements.

- The corridors on the side are way too small in comparison of your character.

 

Now for Odessen, I'd say most people don't like the map because it lacks direction.

If the mods were set in place to spawn at the same spot no matter what and some mods got removed it'd give direction for fighting over those mods. But if nodes were also set in place and one node was removed it'd be far less running to nodes and much easier to have direction. I would totally enjoy this map more if the outside node that is nearly isolated off by itself was removed, or another node was removed but that'd require a good portion of the map to be removed it'd be much more enjoyable.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hey Friends,

 

Just wanted to follow up on some of the conversations happening around the changes we’ve talked about in this thread, and what action we’re taking over the short and long term to address a couple concerns.

 

First, let’s start by talking about the change that has driven the most discussion: The extension of the Deserter debuff to Unranked for those that leave a match early (coming in patch 6.1.2d).

 

The premise of this change is in-line with our goal of PvP being a fun, fair place to play. When a player leaves a warzone (or afk’s), they are affecting the experience for the other 15 players in the match. This sort of behavior artificially adds friction to the experience, and disproportionately affects the ‘fun’ and ‘fairness’ for everyone else. We will not support this behavior with our systems, but we must ask ourselves why players are motivated to use this type of action?

 

Well, y’all have been very clear and vocal about many of these reasons. So let’s get into it:

 

Performance

 

We hear you that performance in warzones continues to be an issue, especially since the 6.0 update. In particular, you have all indicated performance in the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps are especially egregious.

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will remove the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps from rotation until we can solve the performance issues with those particular maps.

 

Longer term, we are profiling the root of performance issues in general (de-syncs, hitches, slide show experiences) across the board in order to provide you with a smooth, fun experience. No ETA on this, but we have already begun in earnest and are committed to fixing it.

 

Preference

 

We hear you that you would rather choose which maps or modes to play, to avoid the ones you don’t like and play what is the most fun for you. In particular, Odessen Proving Grounds comes up often as one of the least popular modes, in particular in Unranked since it can be difficult to coordinate team play in a random queue situation.

 

So let’s talk a bit about the map rotation. Currently, and for some time now, we favor map variety over match type variety.

 

We categorize match types into 5 categories, plus arenas:

• Capture Point
  
  • Alderaan Civil War
    
  • Novare Coast
    
  • Yavin Ruins
    

  [*]Huttball

  • Nar Shaddaa (Original map)
    
  • Quesh
    
  • Vandin
    

  [*]Odessen Proving Grounds (OPG)

  [*]Ancient Hypergates

  [*]Voidstar

 

In favoring map variety, each map has an equal chance to pop once a match is created.

 

One note about Arena maps - they are not in the regular rotation, and will only pop when there is insufficient population to support an 8v8 match. So you will most often see these in lower level brackets or when the queues have low population in general. An arena match should be relatively rare.

 

Back to map variety, you would be right to note if each map is equally weighted, you are three times as likely to get a Capture Point or Huttball match type than any other, since there are three times as many maps in those modes.

 

So if you’re a player who dislikes one particular mode, particularly if that mode is OPG, why should you be forced to play it?

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will adjust the map rotation to favor match variety over map variety. What this means is that you will have an equal chance to have a Capture Point, Huttball, Ancient Hypergates, or Voidstar match type pop.

 

The exception is OPG, which we hear from y’all is the least popular match type currently. We aren’t removing it completely from the rotation for now, but the likelihood that match type will pop will be very small. Longer term we will take a hard look and address the issues with OPG that makes it less popular.

 

Longer term, we agree that a welcomed and healthy addition to the game would be the ability to choose which match types and/or maps you want or do not want to play. As with any new feature, this requires investigation and an assessment of the scope of work before we can commit to a timeframe, however that work has already begun. We are committed to this feature and will update y’all with more information, especially on timing, when we have it.

 

Miscellaneous

 

A couple of other topics that were asked about:

 

The currency for the remaining Replica Rewards will not be Season specific tokens, but the non-seasonal Ranked PvP Reward Tokens. We will also convert this currency into a Legacy currency in a future update, so feel free to earn tokens on whichever character you like until then.

 

We intend to bring back Replica versions of the remaining mounts as well. Stay tuned for the rollout plan there.

 

Thanks again for engaging in discussion around these topics. I look forward to updating everyone on our progress in the future!

 

-Chris

 

Hi Chris,

 

Thank you for listening and replying to our concerns. More communication helps us understand you are listening to the players. It’s more appreciated than you might realise.

 

While I dislike OPG and hope it never pops when I play, I’m not sure our forum feed back is enough to go on with regards to how many people like or dislike it. I can only assume you have other metrics of how many people leave those matches when it pops? And if that’s the case, it might be a good to share so it doesn’t divide the community on the forums.

 

I think with the removal of Vandin and Quesh until they are fixed, you won’t need to introduce those new queue pop measures until you are ready to introduce those two maps again. Because removing them means we go back to 7 map variety.

If you then implement this changed system while Vandin and Quesh are being fixed, it will be a variety of 4-5 (5 being the reduced OPG pop).

That essentially means that Voidstar, Hypergates and Original Hutt Ball (OHB) will pop about 3/4ths of the time. And Civil War, Nova Coast and Yavin will share 1/4th of the pops. And within a week of that, you will have people raging here that Void Star, Hypergates and OHB pop too much.

And while we are on this, I personally don’t think Nova Coast should be lumped in with Civil War and Yavin, it’s a totally different map. Please consider making Nova Coast it’s own type, the same as Hypergates and Void Star have their own category.

 

My feed back would be to hold off on changing the queue pops until you reintroduce the fixed Quesh and Vandin maps. In the meantime, you can trial the deserter lock out without skewing the metrics more or making more people leave who may not have left. Small steps here might be better than one giant step that muddies the metrics.

 

My preference is when you have the system to let people semi choose maps and are ready to add those other two maps back, then you could add the 15 min lockout. But if you are determined to add the lockout timer in 6.1,2d, don’t go all in with the way queue pops.

 

Another question I hope you can answer. What’s happening with vote to kick? And how will this affect the 15 minute lockout?

Ie, if you get kicked by a bunch of trolls, will you then be locked out for 15 minutes?

 

 

 

Lastly, while you are working towards making positive changes to pvp, it seems you’ve mostly avoided the elephant in the room. Which is people not engaging in objective play to win and just farming numbers on the scoreboard and not caring if they win, which often leads to losses because they are being selfish. This wouldn’t be such an issue if it was just one or two people, but it’s normally the majority of the team running in a gank group to see who can get the most stats.

People farming numbers and not trying to win is the NUMBER ONE reason I quit mid match. I don’t care and will stay if another team is better and I’m losing as long as my team is trying. But when I see the majority of my team farming numbers and not trying to win, I will leave those matches even if we are winning.

 

It would be good if you can look at other measures to encourage winning besides rewards, ie, like hiding personal dps, defence, healing and kill stats on the scoreboard for 8v8 objective matches so that only the player can see them, not the whole team. But leave objective points and medals viewable to all and give them an overhaul to represent player contribution. This would help eliminate people farming numbers to look good instead of trying to win (because the rewards are still not that great for winning).

 

You also need to consider how premade’s are affecting matches more than they used to under the current skill balancing you have in place (because it’s broken and has never worked properly).

Either remove premades for good (which is extreme and not my preference) or make it so premades only get put against other premades or reduce the size of premades to 2 man size.

Edited July 17, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[Sappharan]

It would be good if you can look at other measures to encourage winning besides rewards, ie, like hiding personal dps, defence, healing and kill stats on the scoreboard for 8v8 objective matches so that only the player can see them, not the whole team. But leave objective points and medals viewable to all and give them an overhaul to represent player contribution. This would help eliminate people farming numbers to look good instead of trying to win (because the rewards are still not that great for winning).

 

Those numbers would still get out, but I think it would do a lot to curb that kind of unnecessary and frustrating behavior. I have seen, all too often and from both sides of it, that some players get in there and just farm the other team. I have ONLY queued solo for years, and I have been on teams recently where we were the victims, and teams where the team cared nothing for winning, just for farming. I dunno...but that might help.

 

You also need to consider how premade’s are affecting matches more than they used to under the current skill balancing you have in place (because it’s broken and has never worked properly).

Either remove premades for good (which is extreme and not my preference) or make it so premades only get put against other premades or reduce the size of premades to 2 man size.

 

I think this would stop the above pretty effectively. Thus far my suspicions of who is on a premade and who is not comes to how the team is performing and whether they're focusing on objectives. Farming for kills occasionally can be forgiven...but when you experience it several matches out of an evening it is less than ideal.

 

Dunno what the solution is, but I like your thinking.

[merovejec]

Hey Friends,

 

Just wanted to follow up on some of the conversations happening around the changes we’ve talked about in this thread, and what action we’re taking over the short and long term to address a couple concerns.-Chris

 

That is great Chris, what the people here most appreciate is a discussion with the Devs! Thank you!

 

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will remove the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps from rotation until we can solve the performance issues with those particular maps.

 

I am a bit sad about this since I like both of those maps and I especially like huttball. Its sad for me that this new content is so not appreciated by the community. I am pretty sure there are many players who also like these maps, but they are just not here on forums to say it. I hope we will see these maps again soon!

 

 

The exception is OPG, which we hear from y’all is the least popular match type currently.

 

Again the same issue! I mean this map is great and I really love to play it, mainly in lowbies. Its a competely different mode than all the rest, the map is well developed etc, its simply great! Its sad that its not so appreciated by the community.

 

We will also convert this currency into a Legacy currency in a future update, so feel free to earn tokens on whichever character you like until then.

 

This is great news! Thank you for that too!

 

Keep it up Chris!

[frennky]

Performance

 

We hear you that performance in warzones continues to be an issue, especially since the 6.0 update. In particular, you have all indicated performance in the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps are especially egregious.

 

Yes, for me performance is the main issue with pvp.

 

Preference

 

We hear you that you would rather choose which maps or modes to play, to avoid the ones you don’t like and play what is the most fun for you.

 

Map vote system is a very nice idea. But you could also introduce pvp events.

Something like this: every other week on Friday you get 2 hours of only arenas popping, some other day for huttball only, etc. You incentivize people to queue during that time by doubling rewards, or introduce new reputation + vendor.

 

Miscellaneous

 

A couple of other topics that were asked about:

 

The currency for the remaining Replica Rewards will not be Season specific tokens, but the non-seasonal Ranked PvP Reward Tokens. We will also convert this currency into a Legacy currency in a future update, so feel free to earn tokens on whichever character you like until then.

 

Finally. Everything should be Legacy wide.

[Beyrahl]

Can we please also fix the ghost gcd problem? Mainly warrior being impacted, I don't know why it's a thing but it affects literally anyone who has decent APM or runs into someone laggy. I'm tired of hitting buttons like lance/gore or Furious strike and the animation playing 2-3 times before it actually goes off locking me out of a GCD each time.

[Gelious]

The extension of the Deserter debuff to Unranked for those that leave a match early (coming in patch 6.1.2d).

 

The premise of this change is in-line with our goal of PvP being a fun, fair place to play. When a player leaves a warzone (or afk’s), they are affecting the experience for the other 15 players in the match. This sort of behavior artificially adds friction to the experience, and disproportionately affects the ‘fun’ and ‘fairness’ for everyone else. We will not support this behavior with our systems, but we must ask ourselves why players are motivated to use this type of action?

 

You have got to be kidding me. Really, deserter debuff for unranked? Keep that **** in ranked only please.

 

And it's not about me affecting 15 people experience, its the other way around: its those other people ruining game for me.

 

Like when I play huttbal and enemy team scores 3:0 in first 60 second, because no one on my team is remotely capable of stoping them or just plainly dont give a ****, because deathmatching in the middle is more fun.

 

Like when I play Civil War or Yavin, and enemy gets 2 guns and sends 3 people to node I solo guarding, because my team is bad beyond belief and has no clue what to do.

 

LIke when I play Voidstar and the first door gets planted in first 30 sec because no one was looking after it.

 

I get it, you have no way to stop baddies and deathmatchers from playing the match and ruining it. But at the very least dont force me to stay with them.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Gelious

[bladech]

Hey Friends,

 

Just wanted to follow up on some of the conversations happening around the changes we’ve talked about in this thread, and what action we’re taking over the short and long term to address a couple concerns.

 

First, let’s start by talking about the change that has driven the most discussion: The extension of the Deserter debuff to Unranked for those that leave a match early (coming in patch 6.1.2d).

 

The premise of this change is in-line with our goal of PvP being a fun, fair place to play. When a player leaves a warzone (or afk’s), they are affecting the experience for the other 15 players in the match. This sort of behavior artificially adds friction to the experience, and disproportionately affects the ‘fun’ and ‘fairness’ for everyone else. We will not support this behavior with our systems, but we must ask ourselves why players are motivated to use this type of action?

 

Well, y’all have been very clear and vocal about many of these reasons. So let’s get into it:

 

Performance

 

We hear you that performance in warzones continues to be an issue, especially since the 6.0 update. In particular, you have all indicated performance in the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps are especially egregious.

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will remove the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps from rotation until we can solve the performance issues with those particular maps.

 

Longer term, we are profiling the root of performance issues in general (de-syncs, hitches, slide show experiences) across the board in order to provide you with a smooth, fun experience. No ETA on this, but we have already begun in earnest and are committed to fixing it.

 

Preference

 

We hear you that you would rather choose which maps or modes to play, to avoid the ones you don’t like and play what is the most fun for you. In particular, Odessen Proving Grounds comes up often as one of the least popular modes, in particular in Unranked since it can be difficult to coordinate team play in a random queue situation.

 

So let’s talk a bit about the map rotation. Currently, and for some time now, we favor map variety over match type variety.

 

We categorize match types into 5 categories, plus arenas:

• Capture Point
  
  • Alderaan Civil War
    
  • Novare Coast
    
  • Yavin Ruins
    

  [*]Huttball

  • Nar Shaddaa (Original map)
    
  • Quesh
    
  • Vandin
    

  [*]Odessen Proving Grounds (OPG)

  [*]Ancient Hypergates

  [*]Voidstar

 

In favoring map variety, each map has an equal chance to pop once a match is created.

 

One note about Arena maps - they are not in the regular rotation, and will only pop when there is insufficient population to support an 8v8 match. So you will most often see these in lower level brackets or when the queues have low population in general. An arena match should be relatively rare.

 

Back to map variety, you would be right to note if each map is equally weighted, you are three times as likely to get a Capture Point or Huttball match type than any other, since there are three times as many maps in those modes.

 

So if you’re a player who dislikes one particular mode, particularly if that mode is OPG, why should you be forced to play it?

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will adjust the map rotation to favor match variety over map variety. What this means is that you will have an equal chance to have a Capture Point, Huttball, Ancient Hypergates, or Voidstar match type pop.

 

The exception is OPG, which we hear from y’all is the least popular match type currently. We aren’t removing it completely from the rotation for now, but the likelihood that match type will pop will be very small. Longer term we will take a hard look and address the issues with OPG that makes it less popular.

 

Longer term, we agree that a welcomed and healthy addition to the game would be the ability to choose which match types and/or maps you want or do not want to play. As with any new feature, this requires investigation and an assessment of the scope of work before we can commit to a timeframe, however that work has already begun. We are committed to this feature and will update y’all with more information, especially on timing, when we have it.

 

Miscellaneous

 

A couple of other topics that were asked about:

 

The currency for the remaining Replica Rewards will not be Season specific tokens, but the non-seasonal Ranked PvP Reward Tokens. We will also convert this currency into a Legacy currency in a future update, so feel free to earn tokens on whichever character you like until then.

 

We intend to bring back Replica versions of the remaining mounts as well. Stay tuned for the rollout plan there.

 

Thanks again for engaging in discussion around these topics. I look forward to updating everyone on our progress in the future!

 

-Chris

 

Sorry, but drawbacks of extending deserter to unranked warzones outweighing advantages (yes, to answer the question if we need deserter in unranked we need to compare advantages and disadvantages):

1. You said that in longer term you will fix de-syncs, hitches, slide show experiences which ruin certain matches completely (e.g. Huttball). Yet you couldn't fix it for 8 years despite the fact of dozens if threads written on forum complaining on de-syncs, hitches, slide show problems. I highly doubt you will succeed it fixing it. At least bring deserter to unranked ONLY AFTER YOU ACTUALLY FIX de-syncs, hitches, slide show experiences YET NOT BEFORE THAT (which means never, heh)

2. You didn't say anything about another reason which forces players to quit matches - premades. Due to hidden elo matchmaking system which actually failed highrated, experience players with high hidden elo are always matched up against full-grouped premades. Definitely no one wants to play with low-skilled players against full premade groups.

3. You can't really judge which maps are favored and which are disliked. There are many players who enjoy OPG and even huttball. Closing/restricting/blocking them would be unfair. Much better is to either not provide deserter so players could quit what they dislike or allow us to chose maps to play

4. There is no need to bring deserter into unranked since there wasn't much complains on it. After reading tonnes of threads i noticed that players complained only about leaving SOLO RANKED MATCHES yet almost no one complained about leavers in unranked which only proves that advantages of not having deserter in unranked outweigh disadvantages.

 

About team ranked - i know at least 14 players who quitted swtor due to lack of team ranked matches. These are only those i know about and i bet there are many, many more of those who left swtor because of current state of team ranked. These are potential subscribers, CM buyers, event and story participants. If you really care about population in swtor (which is very, very important) you will provide proper quests, incentives and rewards to revive team ranked as it was in season 10.

[Raansu]

You have got to be kidding me. Really, deserter debuff for unranked? Keep that **** in ranked only please.

 

And it's not about me affecting 15 people experience, its the other way around: its those other people ruining game for me.

 

Like when I play huttbal and enemy team scores 3:0 in first 60 second, because no one on my team is remotely capable of stoping them or just plainly dont give a ****, because deathmatching in the middle is more fun.

 

Like when I play Civil War or Yavin, and enemy gets 2 guns and sends 3 people to node I solo guarding, because my team is bad beyond belief and has no clue what to do.

 

LIke when I play Voidstar and the first door gets planted in first 30 sec because no one was looking after it.

 

I get it, you have no way to stop baddies and deathmatchers from playing the match and ruining it. But at the very least dont force me to stay with them.

 

I'm starting to see a pattern with people getting mad about the leaver penalty. It seems like all of you want 100% win rates and games handed to you on a silver platter while you go off and number farm while blaming others for number farming.

 

There's gonna be good matches and bad matches. Take the good with the bad and move on.

[-Ashton-]

Can we please also fix the ghost gcd problem? Mainly warrior being impacted, I don't know why it's a thing but it affects literally anyone who has decent APM or runs into someone laggy. I'm tired of hitting buttons like lance/gore or Furious strike and the animation playing 2-3 times before it actually goes off locking me out of a GCD each time.

 

 

Couldn't agree more, this is the single biggest problem competitive pvp has in swtor. Ghost cd's have been here since release and unaddressed. They have cost me many ranked games and plenty of deaths in regs.

 

I blame the ****** engine and its ability to process graphics/textures/player animations. It's so infuriating and should be fixed 8 years ago.

[-Ashton-]

Can we please get clarification on the following:-

 

If I lm in que for regs for say 5 minutes. Join a war zone pop and I'm a backfill for a leaver. If the game is an obvious loss (4-0 hutball/3 cap nov/3 cap ald). If I decide to not participate and leave, would I get a 15 min deserter punishment?

Edited July 17, 2020 by -Ashton-

[malyj]

Hey Friends,

 

 

First, let’s start by talking about the change that has driven the most discussion: The extension of the Deserter debuff to Unranked for those that leave a match early (coming in patch 6.1.2d).

 

The premise of this change is in-line with our goal of PvP being a fun, fair place to play. When a player leaves a warzone (or afk’s), they are affecting the experience for the other 15 players in the match. This sort of behavior artificially adds friction to the experience, and disproportionately affects the ‘fun’ and ‘fairness’ for everyone else. We will not support this behavior with our systems, but we must ask ourselves why players are motivated to use this type of action?

 

 

-Chris

 

If you actually listened to the community or played your own game you would realize that not having the deserter debuff in regs actually increases the experience of all the players compared to decreasing it. You would also realize that the main reason people leave mid match, when it could be argued that it diminishes the experience for the other players, is because of team balance. This is because you allow 4 man premades to stomp on pugs. Several suggestions have been mentioned in this thread to alleviate this issue that you seem to have overlooked when coming up with your out of touch response that leaving regs needs to be addressed. Most matches result in one team demolishing the other team because you put no effort into trying to meaningfully balance the teams. All you guys do now is recycle old garbage with worse performance. Your trash civil war reskin has worse performance than queshball, but again you don't play your own game so you wouldn't know that.

 

I get called a hacker all the time in huttballs because people see my character glitching around after rolling up or down in elevation because this is more believable than how trash the developers of the game must be for this is somehow part of the game. If only they knew how long it has been in the game, then they would really be shocked. Fix team balance and game performance issues before you feel like you need to blame and punish the players for wanting to leave a match.

 

Preemptively unsubbing, you have proven time and time again you are not worth the money.

[Lhancelot]

Honestly I have no problem with a quitter debuff... the only caveat being that we can choose the WZs we queue for.

 

If I choose a WZ, and then leave it then by all means I deserve a quitter debuff.

 

However, if I do not choose the map and get OPG or Huttball for the 15th time in a row I should not get punished for leaving a WZ when leaving these.

 

As far as premades, yada yada, I don't care, personally I can handle losing in PVP.

 

IMO a player ought not be leaving a WZ just because they got blown up by the other team in the very first round. Just because someone starts to lose doesn't mean they ought to jump out the WZ, that's my point here.

[BallisticKaine]

Hey Friends,

 

Just wanted to follow up on some of the conversations happening around the changes we’ve talked about in this thread, and what action we’re taking over the short and long term to address a couple concerns.

 

First, let’s start by talking about the change that has driven the most discussion: The extension of the Deserter debuff to Unranked for those that leave a match early (coming in patch 6.1.2d).

 

The premise of this change is in-line with our goal of PvP being a fun, fair place to play. When a player leaves a warzone (or afk’s), they are affecting the experience for the other 15 players in the match. This sort of behavior artificially adds friction to the experience, and disproportionately affects the ‘fun’ and ‘fairness’ for everyone else. We will not support this behavior with our systems, but we must ask ourselves why players are motivated to use this type of action?

 

Well, y’all have been very clear and vocal about many of these reasons. So let’s get into it:

 

Performance

 

We hear you that performance in warzones continues to be an issue, especially since the 6.0 update. In particular, you have all indicated performance in the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps are especially egregious.

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will remove the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps from rotation until we can solve the performance issues with those particular maps.

 

Longer term, we are profiling the root of performance issues in general (de-syncs, hitches, slide show experiences) across the board in order to provide you with a smooth, fun experience. No ETA on this, but we have already begun in earnest and are committed to fixing it.

 

Preference

 

We hear you that you would rather choose which maps or modes to play, to avoid the ones you don’t like and play what is the most fun for you. In particular, Odessen Proving Grounds comes up often as one of the least popular modes, in particular in Unranked since it can be difficult to coordinate team play in a random queue situation.

 

So let’s talk a bit about the map rotation. Currently, and for some time now, we favor map variety over match type variety.

 

We categorize match types into 5 categories, plus arenas:

• Capture Point
  
  • Alderaan Civil War
    
  • Novare Coast
    
  • Yavin Ruins
    

  [*]Huttball

  • Nar Shaddaa (Original map)
    
  • Quesh
    
  • Vandin
    

  [*]Odessen Proving Grounds (OPG)

  [*]Ancient Hypergates

  [*]Voidstar

 

In favoring map variety, each map has an equal chance to pop once a match is created.

 

One note about Arena maps - they are not in the regular rotation, and will only pop when there is insufficient population to support an 8v8 match. So you will most often see these in lower level brackets or when the queues have low population in general. An arena match should be relatively rare.

 

Back to map variety, you would be right to note if each map is equally weighted, you are three times as likely to get a Capture Point or Huttball match type than any other, since there are three times as many maps in those modes.

 

So if you’re a player who dislikes one particular mode, particularly if that mode is OPG, why should you be forced to play it?

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will adjust the map rotation to favor match variety over map variety. What this means is that you will have an equal chance to have a Capture Point, Huttball, Ancient Hypergates, or Voidstar match type pop.

 

The exception is OPG, which we hear from y’all is the least popular match type currently. We aren’t removing it completely from the rotation for now, but the likelihood that match type will pop will be very small. Longer term we will take a hard look and address the issues with OPG that makes it less popular.

 

Longer term, we agree that a welcomed and healthy addition to the game would be the ability to choose which match types and/or maps you want or do not want to play. As with any new feature, this requires investigation and an assessment of the scope of work before we can commit to a timeframe, however that work has already begun. We are committed to this feature and will update y’all with more information, especially on timing, when we have it.

 

Miscellaneous

 

A couple of other topics that were asked about:

 

The currency for the remaining Replica Rewards will not be Season specific tokens, but the non-seasonal Ranked PvP Reward Tokens. We will also convert this currency into a Legacy currency in a future update, so feel free to earn tokens on whichever character you like until then.

 

We intend to bring back Replica versions of the remaining mounts as well. Stay tuned for the rollout plan there.

 

Thanks again for engaging in discussion around these topics. I look forward to updating everyone on our progress in the future!

 

-Chris

 

Still the deserter 15 minute lock out is not needed in unranked, UNTIL you address the ability to not be grouped with players that are on your ignore list. If i have ignored players in PvP it is due to toxic behavior or lack of participation. We all know too that the kick option in and 8v8 match is a joke and doesn't work like it should. It doesn't need multiple people to due it for it to take effect. By the time most people do it that player could have been hit with an AoE in their hiding hole area. I leave matches currently when I am grouped with certain players due to how they play or behave. I SHOULD NOT be penalized for leaving a match since I will not play with them. This is why the ignore player in PvP needs to happen just like in Group Finder.

[SlimPikinz]

 

What we’re doing about it: In the short term, in the upcoming patch 6.1.2d, we will remove the Vandin and Quesh Huttball maps from rotation until we can solve the performance issues with those particular maps.

 

Longer term, we are profiling the root of performance issues in general (de-syncs, hitches, slide show experiences) across the board in order to provide you with a smooth, fun experience. No ETA on this, but we have already begun in earnest and are committed to fixing it.

 

 

Please also makes map adjustments to all Huttballs.

 

-Disable stealth in endzone or add acid in endzone

-Since Operative roll through fire can't be balanced properly, make fire and acid traps insta kills ignoring Roll, Rocket Out, Blade Blitz. It's exhausting watching a single Operative carry a Huttball match 6-0 because of Roll.

-Disable Phase Walk between endzone and the first set of traps on each catwalk.

 

With the silly amount of movement and teleport abilities now in the game, the maps have been far outgrown.

[BallisticKaine]

Entrenched snipers with the node cancel mod drive me absolutely insane. They defintely need to fix that.

No that does not need to be fixed. If you insist on that being fixed then the god bubble on sorc/sages need to be fixed too. They shouldn't be able to god bubble if they have a red. Which then they can't be interrupted after the bubble ends. Just like stealthers can't stealth with a MOD. So if you want one fixed you need all these fixed

[Raansu]

Still the deserter 15 minute lock out is not needed in unranked, UNTIL you address the ability to not be grouped with players that are on your ignore list. If i have ignored players in PvP it is due to toxic behavior or lack of participation. We all know too that the kick option in and 8v8 match is a joke and doesn't work like it should. It doesn't need multiple people to due it for it to take effect. By the time most people do it that player could have been hit with an AoE in their hiding hole area. I leave matches currently when I am grouped with certain players due to how they play or behave. I SHOULD NOT be penalized for leaving a match since I will not play with them. This is why the ignore player in PvP needs to happen just like in Group Finder.

 

No, just no.

 

That feature would be abused so hard its not even funny.