Season 13 and the Future of PvP

[TrixxieTriss]

And it functions the exact same way. So it can't be abused in regs. You can always respawn and go attack someone to remove the vote. It's only useful to remove people that are actually afk in a corner or something.

 

But in ranked, people wait until you're dead to kick, and they usually have someone on the other team sit in stealth so that the round goes long enough for the kick to go through.

 

Yeah, it’s a pretty ****** thing to do. They should just remove it or make it so you can’t be kicked if dead or in the starting area.

[Raansu]

Since I am experiencing disconnections I am starting to get annoyed by this. Its not really my fault i get a DC and then i have to wait 15 min. Not to mention lose elo once the season is on the way. Cant the system detect a DC or a leave?

 

Why are you queuing while knowingly having network issues.....? Maybe you should fix that first.

[Lhancelot]

For every person that loves OPG, five others hate it. That's just how it goes.

[Raansu]

For every person that loves OPG, five others hate it. That's just how it goes.

 

Only because they are too lazy to learn how to play it.

[TrixxieTriss]

Only because they are too lazy to learn how to play it.

 

There is more to it than that. You can’t blame them for being too lazy to learn OPG when they won’t even play the simplest objective maps properly or respond to inc calls etc in maps like Nova Coast or Civil War.

 

The majority of the population in regs don’t care is they win or lose because there has been this concerted effort by the ranked community over the years to make regs not matter. So you can not really blame those “lazy people” for not caring when the ranked community tells us over and over on the forums and in matches that regs don’t count.

 

The problem is the attitude towards objective pvp. If we still had ranked objective pvp, we wouldn’t have this issue that trying to play objectives doesn’t matter. But because we don’t, the ranked crowd come into regs and farm numbers and pass on that bad attitude or behaviour to non ranked players who wrongly think the ranked guys are right.

 

It’s why we has such bad skill levels in regs and why there aren’t enough people to refill the numbers in ranked because they have no good role models to learn from. And if someone is trying to learn and asks questions, they get told to form numbers or people trying to help them get derided for playing the objectives,

 

Even I hate OPG and I know quiet well how to play it and I’m no objective noob who doesn’t understand tactics or strategy.

My sole reason for hating the map is no one plays properly, which is worse than them not playing other objective maps properly because OPG is 90% objectives and tactics. Those that win OPG by just death matching only win if the teams are heavily unbalanced in their favour. Otherwise you shouldn’t win OPG by death matching.

It’s another reason why I’ve come to dislike Hutt ball so much after it used to be my favourite. People just don’t care to play properly, so I don’t want to stay.

Edited July 26, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[DavidAtkinson]

It’s more than that. You can’t blame them for being lazy to learn OPG when they won’t even play the simplest objective maps properly or respond to inc calls etc in maps like Nova Coast or Civil War.

 

The majority of the population in regs don’t care is they win or lose because there has been this concerted effort by the ranked to community over the years to make regs not matter. So you can really blame those lazy people for not caring when the ranked community tells us over and over on the forums and in matches that regs don’t count.

 

The problem is the attitude towards objective pvp. If we still had ranked objective pvp, we wouldn’t have this issue that trying to play objectives doesn’t matter. But because we don’t, the ranked crowd come into regs and farm numbers and pass on that bad attitude or behaviour to non ranked players who wrongly think the ranked guys are right.

 

It’s why we has such bad skill in regs and why there aren’t enough people to refill the numbers in ranked because they have no good role models

 

No, dude...

 

People playing regs are mostly idiots and ranked community has nothing to do with it. And are ranked players wrong ? What exactly do you gain by winning in regs and what exactly do you lose ? Nothing at all... and that's why people don't care . There absolutely no consequence to their ineptness . By the way.. they aren't even trying to improve because why would they ? rewards are trash.. At least in ranked you get to buy some unique rewards if you play enough games.

 

In ranked the skill level is much higher because players are trying to win, while in regs, it doesn't really matter if you win or lose. This is plain fact.

 

Also, everything that is relevant to end game is at level 70, and this is why there is no reason to play lowbies and mids anymore. People just want to skip it and que up at level 70 totally oblivious of pvp mechanics .

[TrixxieTriss]

No, dude...

 

People playing regs are mostly idiots and ranked community has nothing to do with it. And are ranked players wrong ? What exactly do you gain by winning in regs and what exactly do you lose ? Nothing at all... and that's why people don't care . There absolutely no consequence to their ineptness . By the way.. they aren't even trying to improve because why would they ? rewards are trash.. At least in ranked you get to buy some unique rewards if you play enough games.

 

In ranked the skill level is much higher because players are trying to win, while in regs, it doesn't really matter if you win or lose. This is plain fact.

 

Also, everything that is relevant to end game is at level 70, and this is why there is no reason to play lowbies and mids anymore. People just want to skip it and que up at level 70 totally oblivious of pvp mechanics .

 

Don’t be so simplistic. The ranked community has been saying over and over for years that regs don’t matter. Eventually the “idiots” listen. Most of the good reg players or objective players have just stopped playing because we got sick of the scoreboard epeen heroes ruining the game. And so much of the attitude has come from ranked players like you saying it doesn’t matter if you win or lose.

 

I do agree there is more too it and it’s not 100% the ranked communities fault, but they do play a big part in why the attitude in regs is so poor.

Edited July 26, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[omaan]

Don’t be so simplistic. The ranked community has been saying over and over for years that regs don’t matter. Eventually the “idiots” listen. Most of the good reg players or objective players have just stopped playing because we got sick of the scoreboard epeen heroes ruining the game. And so much of the attitude has come from ranked players like you saying it doesn’t matter if you win or lose.

 

I do agree there is more too it and it’s not 100% the ranked communities fault, but they do play a big part in why the attitude in regs is so poor.

 

Regstar, stop blaming ranked players for problems in regs. On DM i rarely see ranked players in regs at all. 70% of ranked players on DM are not playing regs at all, other 30% playing it very rare. Instead of blaming "all-mighty, alpha-powered" ranked players who came from another planet (krypton) and ruining your precious games, we must gather together as a whole pvp community and show devs on their huge mistakes in pvp. Dead team ranked, Dsync, deserter issue in regs, broken trashball etc. Ranked players have nothing to do in number farmers in regs since a big part of regstars also prefer farming kills instead of going objectives same as many ranked participants prefer being bad in ranked ruining it.

Lack of proper rewards for winning regs is the reason many players doesn't even bother with trying to win. In ranked players get elo for winning, silver, gold and platinum which provides proper incentives for players to win rather than just to play for any outcome. What you get for winning in regs? Faster completion of daylie/weeklies? This is the same reason why team ranked is dead - no incentives (proper rewards) to form teams and queue it. They must return back mats and old quests as it was in season 10, and they must provide additional quests to regs which can be completed only by winning and provide good rewards for them.

Edited July 26, 2020 by omaan

[Nickodemous]

And it functions the exact same way. So it can't be abused in regs. You can always respawn and go attack someone to remove the vote. It's only useful to remove people that are actually afk in a corner or something.

 

But in ranked, people wait until you're dead to kick, and they usually have someone on the other team sit in stealth so that the round goes long enough for the kick to go through.

 

Just a question, what about guarding nodes in WZ's like Alderaan, Novare, and Hypergate? I have been kicked from a match maybe 3 times since launch. I do recall the one in ranked and it happened exactly who you described but, the 2-3 in regs, I just don't remember how they happened exactly. I want to say they occurred while I was guarding a node, it was attacked, and as kicked out when I respawned.

 

I may be wrong though and hope you are right. I would hate to see people abuse it.

[JediMasterAlex]

Just a question, what about guarding nodes in WZ's like Alderaan, Novare, and Hypergate? I have been kicked from a match maybe 3 times since launch. I do recall the one in ranked and it happened exactly who you described but, the 2-3 in regs, I just don't remember how they happened exactly. I want to say they occurred while I was guarding a node, it was attacked, and as kicked out when I respawned.

 

I may be wrong though and hope you are right. I would hate to see people abuse it.

 

I believe guarding a node prevents you from being kicked, but I'm not 100% sure. If you were guarding a node, someone started a vote to kick, then you got attacked and died without doing any damage yourself, it could kick you when you respawn. Attacking someone definitely clears the vote, but you getting attacked yourself does not.

Edited July 26, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

[Ardrossan]

There is more to it than that. You can’t blame them for being too lazy to learn OPG when they won’t even play the simplest objective maps properly or respond to inc calls etc in maps like Nova Coast or Civil War.

 

The majority of the population in regs don’t care is they win or lose because there has been this concerted effort by the ranked community over the years to make regs not matter. So you can not really blame those “lazy people” for not caring when the ranked community tells us over and over on the forums and in matches that regs don’t count.

 

The problem is the attitude towards objective pvp. If we still had ranked objective pvp, we wouldn’t have this issue that trying to play objectives doesn’t matter. But because we don’t, the ranked crowd come into regs and farm numbers and pass on that bad attitude or behaviour to non ranked players who wrongly think the ranked guys are right.

 

It’s why we has such bad skill levels in regs and why there aren’t enough people to refill the numbers in ranked because they have no good role models to learn from. And if someone is trying to learn and asks questions, they get told to form numbers or people trying to help them get derided for playing the objectives,

 

Even I hate OPG and I know quiet well how to play it and I’m no objective noob who doesn’t understand tactics or strategy.

My sole reason for hating the map is no one plays properly, which is worse than them not playing other objective maps properly because OPG is 90% objectives and tactics. Those that win OPG by just death matching only win if the teams are heavily unbalanced in their favour. Otherwise you shouldn’t win OPG by death matching.

It’s another reason why I’ve come to dislike Hutt ball so much after it used to be my favourite. People just don’t care to play properly, so I don’t want to stay.

 

100% this. I just saw a post in another thread by a self-identified ranked player insisting that playing like it's death matches in regs is always equally as useful or more useful than playing objectives. What a lulzy argument, and one you'd expect from elitists who don't GAF about regs anyway because "there's no reward." They don't know how to play objectives properly so they'll keep doing what they do in ranked and insisting that they're the best players on the team because of high kill count. If we lose the node or never grab the ball, it doesn't matter how many you kill!

 

And just on this whole "no reward" thing. I've tried Ranked a few times over the years and there is NO reward worth playing it on a regular basis. Regs is fun and now that they've increased CQ for it, it's viable for conquest again. Ideally, it should be like CXP was where you'd win a match and gain several levels but ultimately, I don't need a bunch of stuff to play competently and NOT be a poisonous brat to my team.

[septru]

The majority of the population in regs don’t care is they win or lose because there has been this concerted effort by the ranked community over the years to make regs not matter.

 

In all the psycho-analysis, conspiracy theories, and philosophizing that you guys do on the forums, did you ever think that the reason regs are bad is because the players that play them are bad.

 

It’s why we has such bad skill levels in regs and why there aren’t enough people to refill the numbers in ranked because they have no good role models to learn from.

 

Like seriously it isn't rocket science. If only bad players play regs, then the new regs players will live up to the bad players they learn from.

 

I just saw a post in another thread by a self-identified ranked player insisting that playing like it's death matches in regs is always equally as useful or more useful than playing objectives.

 

As a "self-identified ranked player" that solo que objs in regs, I can say that having the premade number farmers on your team is 10000x better than having the average retarded reg pug. Think about it this way, if the premade number farmers can wipe out the entire opposing team by themselves, it leaves the other 4 players to secure, guard, and hold the off-nodes. Your problem is that the other 4 people are usually the average retarded reg pug.

 

 

They don't know how to play objectives properly so they'll keep doing what they do in ranked and insisting that they're the best players on the team because of high kill count.

 

What an incredibly dumb statement. You really don't realize that ranked players have been playing regs for years. They learned, practiced, and got to the skill level that they are at by doing objs in regs. Most ranked players don't do objs anymore because there is literally 0 competition.

Edited July 26, 2020 by septru

[TrixxieTriss]

Regstar, stop blaming ranked players for problems in regs. On DM i rarely see ranked players in regs at all. 70% of ranked players on DM are not playing regs at all, other 30% playing it very rare. Instead of blaming "all-mighty, alpha-powered" ranked players who came from another planet (krypton) and ruining your precious games, we must gather together as a whole pvp community and show devs on their huge mistakes in pvp. Dead team ranked, Dsync, deserter issue in regs, broken trashball etc. Ranked players have nothing to do in number farmers in regs since a big part of regstars also prefer farming kills instead of going objectives same as many ranked participants prefer being bad in ranked ruining it.

Lack of proper rewards for winning regs is the reason many players doesn't even bother with trying to win. In ranked players get elo for winning, silver, gold and platinum which provides proper incentives for players to win rather than just to play for any outcome. What you get for winning in regs? Faster completion of daylie/weeklies? This is the same reason why team ranked is dead - no incentives (proper rewards) to form teams and queue it. They must return back mats and old quests as it was in season 10, and they must provide additional quests to regs which can be completed only by winning and provide good rewards for them.

 

Here we go. Thanks for proving my point

[TrixxieTriss]

I believe guarding a node prevents you from being kicked, but I'm not 100% sure. If you were guarding a node, someone started a vote to kick, then you got attacked and died without doing any damage yourself, it could kick you when you respawn. Attacking someone definitely clears the vote, but you getting attacked yourself does not.

 

I can confirm that guarding a node doesn’t protect you from being kicked. It’s happened to myself and others in my old pvp guild.

[Ardrossan]

I

What an incredibly dumb statement. You really don't realize that ranked players have been playing regs for years. They learned, practiced, and got to the skill level that they are at by doing objs in regs. Most ranked players don't do objs anymore because there is literally 0 competition.

 

Ah, I see. You're too good to play objectives.

 

lol this is some next level elitism I gotta say.

[KendraP]

Ah, I see. You're too good to play objectives.

 

lol this is some next level elitism I gotta say.

I mean on the one hand he had a point - I daresay most ranked players are perfectly capable of doing and winning warzones.

 

I will also grant him that the current level of players in warzones is utter garbage.

 

What I will strongly blame him and others who agree with him for is the conclusion: because warzones are full of trash they are perfectly entitled to "play their way" and further exacerbate the problem by refusing to play the match to win. How will any of the new players learn how to win a match if all that ever happens in them are supposed elite ranked players tunneling mid? So in effect, the behavior further aggravates the problem by espousing that proper play is to tunnel each other at mid.

 

TLDR: yes, most players suck. Yes, deciding to do ranked does not automatically make you forget how to win a warzone. But no, those 2 facts do not excuse not playing to win a match.

Edited July 26, 2020 by KendraP

[septru]

Ah, I see. You're too good to play objectives.

 

Thank you for completely ignoring most of my post and completely misconstruing the one part that you quoted.

 

How will any of the new players learn how to win a match if all that ever happens in them are supposed elite ranked players tunneling mid?

 

While I will always stop to teach a new player that asks for help, many don't. And why should they? Most players don't pay $15 a month to spend their time teaching new players in regs.

Edited July 26, 2020 by septru

[KendraP]

 

While I will always stop to teach a new player that asks for help, many don't. And why should they? Most players don't pay $15 a month to spend their time teaching new players in regs.

 

I read nothing about your post except the bit that the other poster quoted. I'm not saying you should stop and teach every new player, whether they ask you or not. Im saying there is value to new players in simply participating in a "good" match where both teams are actively trying to win. If they see someone, for example, call for help from a side node, and see someone go help that person, I dare imply that makes it more likely they emulate that behavior. Experience is, after all, the best teacher.

 

If they see 7 people tunneling at mid, I simply assume that the new player would emulate that behavior and thus not know proper play.

 

Which I might add, excacerbates the issue I keep seeing you guys in ranked moping about with people joining ranked not knowing how to play their class or follow a strategy. Maybe if they learned how to coordinate as a team from playing warzones, they would also be better at following your directions or even coming up with strategies when and if they decided to join ranked matches.

 

This why I say - the irritation is reasonable, doing ranked does not make you forget warzones, however, not playing to win a match does the community a disservice.

Edited July 26, 2020 by KendraP

[EnzoForMe]

Kind of unfortunate an OP showcasing a lot of good information about Season 13 was mostly ignored and I have to wade through this cesspool of a thread to try and see any interesting and relevant commentary. Most ranked players don't care about or read these pvp forums because they are flooded with posts from a small but vocal group whose myopic view of pvp borders on parody.

 

A note to the self-styled forum personalities: the never-ending posts you make about the same topics that spill into all threads ("premades", "ranked players not appreciating 300 IQ big brain objective play", "8v8 ranked is Mt. Olympus 4v4 ranked is little boy sandbox" etc.) don't make you an "influencer", no matter how much you want that to be true. Your clout doesn't extend beyond the echo chamber you've created with 5 other people.

 

So rather than pumping up that post count, maybe focus on improving your skillset to make the jump from success in regs > success in ranked and widen your perspective of pvp. Or stick to whatever narrative you've constructed that explains your shotcomings in a game you've spent so much time playing and continue to regurgitate the same old talking points.

 

If you're looking for ranked player feedback twitch channels and discords are the best ways (I especially recommend the Elite Ranked Cabal discord - bring a dead fish, three Number 2 pencils, and a screenshot of where the Evil Premade touched you to gain access, thank me later there's some juicy content in there). Season 13 starts Tuesday and I think these changes will make for a high participation level throughout the season in solo ranked. Group ranked still needs looking at in terms of incentivizing play, and fixing class balance so that more than a few dps specs and one tank spec can compete.

[JediMasterAlex]

This why I say - the irritation is reasonable, doing ranked does not make you forget warzones, however, not playing to win a match does the community a disservice.

 

You're definitely correct here. Sometimes their excuse is "I don't want to sit guarding a node, I want to actually pvp," in which case they should just queue ranked. If they don't want to actually play the game mode, ie, do objectives and win, I don't really get why they queue for regs in the first place. I share a lot of the frustrations about regs, so I usually don't queue regs and play ranked instead.

 

A note to the self-styled forum personalities: the never-ending posts you make about the same topics that spill into all threads ("premades", "ranked players not appreciating 300 IQ big brain objective play", "8v8 ranked is Mt. Olympus 4v4 ranked is little boy sandbox" etc.) don't make you an "influencer", no matter how much you want that to be true. Your clout doesn't extend beyond the echo chamber you've created with 5 other people.

 

So rather than pumping up that post count, maybe focus on improving your skillset to make the jump from success in regs > success in ranked and widen your perspective of pvp. Or stick to whatever narrative you've constructed that explains your shotcomings in a game you've spent so much time playing and continue to regurgitate the same old talking points.

 

I've been saying this for years, but some of them still seem to be convinced that ranked is a broken, unfun, toxic cesspool filled with degenerates. There's no convincing them otherwise even though they don't actually play ranked.

[Nickodemous]

Kind of unfortunate an OP showcasing a lot of good information about Season 13 was mostly ignored and I have to wade through this cesspool of a thread to try and see any interesting and relevant commentary. Most ranked players don't care about or read these pvp forums because they are flooded with posts from a small but vocal group whose myopic view of pvp borders on parody.

 

A note to the self-styled forum personalities: the never-ending posts you make about the same topics that spill into all threads ("premades", "ranked players not appreciating 300 IQ big brain objective play", "8v8 ranked is Mt. Olympus 4v4 ranked is little boy sandbox" etc.) don't make you an "influencer", no matter how much you want that to be true. Your clout doesn't extend beyond the echo chamber you've created with 5 other people.

 

So rather than pumping up that post count, maybe focus on improving your skillset to make the jump from success in regs > success in ranked and widen your perspective of pvp. Or stick to whatever narrative you've constructed that explains your shotcomings in a game you've spent so much time playing and continue to regurgitate the same old talking points.

 

If you're looking for ranked player feedback twitch channels and discords are the best ways (I especially recommend the Elite Ranked Cabal discord - bring a dead fish, three Number 2 pencils, and a screenshot of where the Evil Premade touched you to gain access, thank me later there's some juicy content in there). Season 13 starts Tuesday and I think these changes will make for a high participation level throughout the season in solo ranked. Group ranked still needs looking at in terms of incentivizing play, and fixing class balance so that more than a few dps specs and one tank spec can compete.

 

And you are not trying to be an "Influencer"? Don't make me laugh! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Lhancelot]

What I will strongly blame him and others who agree with him for is the conclusion: because warzones are full of trash they are perfectly entitled to "play their way" and further exacerbate the problem by refusing to play the match to win. How will any of the new players learn how to win a match if all that ever happens in them are supposed elite ranked players tunneling mid? So in effect, the behavior further aggravates the problem by espousing that proper play is to tunnel each other at mid.

 

This is well said, exactly what I was thinking as I read his post.

 

I do agree with his sentiment that regs are full of awful players now, worse than ever, however not playing the WZ as it's supposed to be played; objectively does ruin the match.

 

I do not agree with trolling the majority for some selfish need to just do what oneself feels like doing and that's all a group is doing when they make zero attempts to play any objectives in a regs 8v8 objective WZ.

 

Just because a team may have far superior skills doesn't give them some entitlement to wreck the entire match full of 12 other people who are entering the match to play the game as it's made to be played.

 

How people can get this selfish, and even worse, begin to enjoy doing this to other people really is beyond me. It's childish, so I assume it has to be bratty children. Adults who have developed some empathy and have formed solid consciences typically don't behave this way, even when living in the cloak of internet anonymity.

[Raansu]

Season 13 starts Tuesday and I think these changes will make for a high participation level throughout the season in solo ranked. Group ranked still needs looking at in terms of incentivizing play, and fixing class balance so that more than a few dps specs and one tank spec can compete.

 

It will be the same as always. The same 10 people in queue vote kicking others out of matches as they pretend solo ranked has any meaning to it (it doesn't)

[Nickodemous]

It will be the same as always. The same 10 people in queue vote kicking others out of matches as they pretend solo ranked has any meaning to it (it doesn't)

 

Agreed, instead of 100/200 playing, it now 10 who manipulate it for their own benefit and are intolerant of any others who try! It almost laughable. They sure like to preach about how great they and ranked are though! Exclude everyone to make yourself great....the new ranked!

 

At least there will be decent rewards for them now....***!

Edited July 27, 2020 by Nickodemous

[Ardrossan]

I've been saying this for years, but some of them still seem to be convinced that ranked is a broken, unfun, toxic cesspool filled with degenerates. There's no convincing them otherwise even though they don't actually play ranked.

 

Because it is. And yes I've played it, I've given it plenty of chances and I'm done giving it any more. The quoted attitude is reflected in this thread - the "cesspool" is ranked players who think they're too good to play objectives, who think everyone in regs is an r-word and then who wonder why no one wants to queue with them.

 

Aside from nightmare raiders, ranked is universally recognized in this game as the most toxic playing atmosphere. It's lulzy, Trump-level cognitive dissonance to blame that on the forum. The last time I critiqued Ranked here I was told to "git gud" which is always the ranked player's answer to accusations of toxicity: everyone complaining about them is a bad.

 

How people can get this selfish, and even worse, begin to enjoy doing this to other people really is beyond me. It's childish, so I assume it has to be bratty children. Adults who have developed some empathy and have formed solid consciences typically don't behave this way, even when living in the cloak of internet anonymity.

 

lol no. I mean maybe but no. The dregs of the internet are adults.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Ardrossan