Utility Changes coming in GU 5.6

[omaan]

How many people play Ranked?

 

In unranked, it does not matter. People play for the fun of it. They'll play whatever's fun to them.

In PvE, this could very well work. In solo PvE, most definitely. I've a hunch it'll work just as well in group PvE.

 

It's just Ranked. While nobody should be ignored by a company...a question begs itself. Should they prioritize obnoxiously loud 5% over the other 95%? Not to mention that hardcore PvPers have been known to ruin MMOs.

 

So, if the change works in ~90% of content...you know. What's the logical thing to conclude?

 

I actually agree with Combat arguments(it changes it too much, the fact I like the change's irrelevant right now). But PT / Guard / Shadow? Come on! They are giving us versatility and things we asked for and someone's still crying! So much about "gratitude".

 

Dps pt is a full garbage in both ranked and unranked. Just make a dps pt, and try regular warzones.. you wont last even 2 minutes. It dies faster than you can notice it

Edited October 28, 2017 by omaan

[Henyk]

Don't kill combat sentinel!

[Cuiwe]

Dps pt is a full garbage in both ranked and unranked. Just make a dps pt, and try regular warzones.. you wont last even 2 minutes. It dies faster than you can notice it

 

Sorry, don't care about PvP here. If I wanted to PvP...there are games specialized in that. Even Star Wars too! There's one coming out in like a month or something.

 

So, no, I don't care how something feels in PvP. I already said: "The new AoE Defensive Utils should give both AoE and Stun dmg redux".

[WindOfDeath]

First and likely last post on the forums as a carnage mara since 1.0 i came to say this:

Carnage changes are complete BS and will make the spec a detriment to your team as rage and annihilation will be much higher dps in both pve and pvp.... good job combat balance dude!

That is all, have a good day.

[Costello]

Hey folks,

--

Marauder

Carnage

• Ferocity is now stack-based with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds, affecting Devastating Blast, Gore, Vicious Throw and Massacre, and consuming a stack each time they are used
  

DevNotes: We noticed a disparity between damage output on the Carnage discipline from players that could successfully “clip” a Vicious Throw in a Ferocity window and those who couldn’t, due to factors outside of their control like server latency. Clipping lead to being able to use 3 abilities affected by Ferocity during the original 3 second window instead of 2. To remedy this, we changed Ferocity to be stack based, with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds. Additionally, Ferocity now only affects certain abilities, making it possible for players to use a less optimal ability during the window without sacrificing a stack Ferocity.

 

Although this will look like a DPS loss, Carnage’s target DPS has always been calculated without “clipping” in mind, so this change should effectively normalize Carnage’s DPS to our target.

 

 

-eric

 

So what you are saying is that in no part of hitting the target dps was berserk or any alacrity used to maximize attacks in the ferocity window.

 

Either the combat balance person is useless and doesn't know what they are doing, which probably is the case as they use a test dummy to hit the target and then think 5% is fine to off set time off target.

 

The Combat person doesn't know about Berserk or Alacrity in which case what gear is being used to test these number.

 

Or your lying about the class still being able to hit the target dps cause they never managed to fit more than 2 attacks into that window when if your using alacrity and beserk you would bloody well hope to.

 

So hows about putting it at 3 stacks to it continue to function as it has before.

[thepilk]

Sentinel

Combat

• Precision is now stack-based with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds, affecting Clashing Blast, Lance, Dispatch, and Blade Rush, and consuming a stack each time they are used
  

DevNotes: We noticed a disparity between damage output on the Combat discipline from players that could successfully “clip” a Dispatch in a Precision window and those who couldn’t, due to factors outside of their control like server latency. Clipping lead to being able to use 3 abilities affected by Precision during the original 3 second window instead of 2. To remedy this, we changed Precision to be stack based, with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds. Additionally, Precision now only affects certain abilities, making it possible for players to use a less optimal ability during the window without sacrificing a stack of Precision.

 

Although this will look like a DPS loss, Combat’s target DPS has always been calculated without “clipping” in mind, so this change should effectively normalize Combat’s DPS to our target.

 

The new change to Precision seems to omit our AOE rotation. Is there anyway Sweeping Slash/Cyclone Slash could be added to the abilties that benefit from Precision/Ferocity?

 

Carnage/Combat's high end AOE rotation involves using Zen (ideally) to pour out multiple Sweeping/Cyclone Slashes during the penetration window.

This is because the window extended the buff to off hand hits, and the Ataru auto-proc that the spec applies to all targets in Cyclone/Sweeping slashes. In the new version, not even the base AOE will benefit.

 

Using Cyclone Slash and procs with precision is pretty important to Combat Sentinels ability to manage adds and put AOE damage out.

 

Also, no benefit to Ravage/Blade Barrage during Precision? That occasionally falls into the rotation and no longer works.

[thepilk]

Also, is there any plan to adjust the Ataru stance bonus (3% alacrity increase), the Zen Alacrity charges, and the Alarcity amounts in Sentinel gear?

 

This change to Precision/Ferocity seems to reduce any major importance Alacrity stacking has on the performance now.

Edited October 28, 2017 by thepilk

[giorgo]

Also, is there any plan to adjust the Ataru stance bonus (3% alacrity increase), the Zen Alacrity charges, and the Alarcity amounts in Sentinel gear?

 

This change to Precision/Ferocity seems to reduce any major importance Alacrity stacking has on the performance now.

No way they thought all of this before making this change to carnage.

You ask too much from the combat balance guy

[BraverDre]

I am happy with these changes for madness class. All what madness needs now is a very small damage boost so we can reach 9,8-10k on a 2,5mills dummy like other sustained rDPS can. Edited October 28, 2017 by BraverDre

[thepilk]

No way they thought all of this before making this change to carnage.

You ask too much from the combat balance guy

 

I presumed not, just figured Id ask to put it out there.

[alexroof]

When they don't even realize that you don't need to clip to hit 3 abilities into ferocity, feels bad. Going from 7 abilities in every 2 ferocities to 4 is so painful.

 

The most awful thing is actually, if you take the clipping with it in the case of dispatch-ferocity-masterstrike (intended) - clashing blast and lance with blade rush. you got castrated by 3 dmg outputs like procz ataru, bladerush, dispatch.

i think about 800-900 dps loss. but that is just a wild guess of mine.

 

Carnage it was fun with you but now you r ****ed

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Dude what are you even talking about. Eric said there would be no DPS lost. You have to use feminist math.

 

40% of Sent/Mara Players do 20% less damage, 60% of Sent/Mara Players 10% more damge overall no change in damage for the Sent/Mara Class.

 

I don't know where you got those numbers, but it isn't difficult for Combat to get 3 abilities into a Precision window right now without clipping. It's actually consistent, happens every time, due to how important alacrity is right now and the buffs Combat already gets to it due its stance passive and Zen buff. Even without Zen I'm fairly certain it's possible to get 3 abilities in without clipping. So this is a damage nerf, flat out. Ataru Form Strikes being left out is also a straight up damage nerf.

 

There's no way to spin this change as a buff without ignoring how Combat is played. The entire point is to fit more abilities into Precision. It's always been that way and 3 has been easy to achieve for a while due to the all the alacrity buffs Combat gets.

[Ansultares]

So, instead of giving 30% DR while stunned to guards/jugs, they're going to take it away from PTs and sins.

[Phaedruss]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9454769#post9454769

 

Small list of suggestions for 5.6 Balance/Madness Sage/Sorc.

Please give it a read and leave feedback!

[Darthanimus]

Snipers and slingers ruined. I am very unhappy.

[RikuvonDrake]

Snipers and slingers ruined. I am very unhappy.

 

Most likely this change won't impact you since it's evident you either don't play sniper, are unable to read or lack understanding of the class. This is a small buff to Snipers as it's rare that your dots crits more than 50% of the time.

[ForjKlahaa]

I don't post often on these forums, but I feel I need to lend my voice to this.

 

My two favorite specs to play in this game are Deception and Carnage.

 

I'm in the same boat. I almost gave up on this game when I started playing back in 3.0 because I couldn't find a spec I enjoyed or was any good at. Then everything seemed to slot into place and I found a home with these two specs. They're the only two I would ever consider bringing into group content and now they've been gutted.

 

I don't claim to be the best player by a long shot and I could never clip reliably in real combat but I CAN fit 3 abilities into the ferocity/precision window with high enough alacrity. It doesn't even need to be that high (you don't need BiS) and you don't need to be under berserk/zen to do it.

 

As if I wasn't worried enough about doing well in group content, now I'll be laughed out of the instance.

 

And Eric/Keith/whoever, I'd just like to say that completely changing a spec between expansion releases is a nightmare for those of us that rely on guides to help them play their class well. The old ones don't get updated and nobody is writing new ones. I don't have the capacity/tools to figure out optimal rotations and all I can do is make an educated guess.

 

You come up with these highly complex specs with 30+ abilities (It's getting ridiculous really) that are meant to be used under a mountain of various buffs that all start and fall off at different times and you expect the average player to figure it all out based on tool tips alone. Well I guess you don't because you know that in the past the community has picked up the slack and written the guides for you - except that they're not anymore because everyone is leaving because nothing new is on the horizon to draw them back - and then you go and overhaul classes so completely that the old guides are basically useless.

 

It's irresponsible and it's stressing me out. I hope you get this fixed before 6.0 (if it ever comes) because I doubt I'll be back til then. I'm only really here to save my character names; although I'm not sure even that was worth the £9 sub. I really loved this game but every time I pick it up lately, it just feels old and tired and too expensive (if you want to enjoy the the only new content - the CM packs) and now this... It's not worth it for me.

[AdjeYo]

Why DR when stunned for tanks though? It's dps specs that can really use the stunned damage reduction in pvp, why not make it stunned DR for all specs and additionally AoE DR for dps specs? It's not like any of these specs are overperforming in pvp. Sins are mediocre at best and already have the stunned DR. Juggs and Pt's are trash in pvp, just give them the stunned DR too.

[TheLadySeydlitz]

On madness I think the resurgence buff is actually better as it is lower cooldown than the other abilities - and if any defensive tweak is needed it is only for PvP anyways not PvE with that spec. single target DPS output well yeah - that could use some love but numbers# on internal metrics are probably getting inflated on this spec because of all the fluff damage it puts out.

 

the lightning adjustment is very clunky that I agree - they need to get that buff on an off-the gcd ability at the very least. And the overall defensive buff is probably too slight for their squishiness compared to the even after these adjustments stronger DCDs of Mercs and Snipers.

 

I agree that Resurgence is a better place than UP for the buff, and that it's needed more for PvP than PvE, but if that's the case then it should be a utility. Why attach it to something that'll be used in one game mode and not the other? That's what utilities are for. Which is why I suggested proc'ing it off Force Leech (or something else in the rotation with a 10sec-ish cooldown), so that it's useful in both modes without having to force it.

Though I suppose that could make it a bit too easy to use and maintain uptime with, but on the other hand, constantly using Resurgence could also lead to force points issues in sustained situations, so it might be a case of weighing up when to use it rather than mindlessly spamming it.

 

I also agree that the Lightning buff isn't fantastic. Neither is the Madness buff, incidentally, what good is 10% armour when Sorc's have very little armour anyway? Nevermind the fact that armour rating doesn't mean a whole lot, I mean, PT's and Jugg's have heavy armour, and they're two of the squishiest dps specs.

 

Even though an extra 5% DR isn't much, it isn't hard to maintain a high uptime on De-ionized, GCD issues aside, so we can't expect too much from it. Though considering Lightning already has extra DR from Lightning Bolt stacks, I don't see why we need more. In fact, if they want to give us more DR, sticking with the LB stacks would be easier, just up the max of 3 stacks to 5 or 6. Or leave it at 3 stacks, but increase the 3% DR from each stack to something like 5%. And maybe increase their duration from 10secs to 15 or 20.

[Exocor]

Goodbye rofl PT @Brontes. It was fun as long as it lasted. Time, to come back to Snipers, Annis, Mercs and welcome to Furys (). Gonna try Hatred...

 

Oh, and for what have I learned and practiced Combat/Carnage in the last 4 months?

 

---

 

So, enough whining and some small suggestions here:

 

PT: Make the Prototype Armor-utility triggering through all incoming damage, not just ciritical stuff. Also, give the Cooldownreduction of Energy Shield to Pyrotech. If not, give AP the same dcd on deaggro (sonic missile) as Arsenal has on its deaggro. Give Pyrotech the same dcd on sonic missile as Innovative Ordnance has on its deaggro.

Or, if you don't want to consider these defensives buffs, give us the good kolto, that Mercs have. Or a lower cd on energy shield. Or a higher base damage reduction with some buffs on certain abilitys. Or.... just give us something to survive incoming damage.

 

Carnage: Give us 3 stacks of ferocity, or, give us one additional stack of ferocity, if activated under Berserk via setbonus.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Exocor

[nyrkverse]

I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind the removal of stun dr from melee dps and failing. What exactly are they trying to fix here? They consider PTs and Sins too survivable in PvP (ikr? )? Juggs don't have it so they want to put all the melee, tanking capable, classes on equal footing? (just give it to Juggs then? ) Or did Brontes call them to complain PTs and Sins weren't hurt enough by her final tantrums? "Look, Keith, I'm already at my wits' end with those insufferable shrouding freaks making a mockery of my beatiful arcing assaults, you gotta give me something here!".

[AdjeYo]

I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind the removal of stun dr from melee dps and failing. What exactly are they trying to fix here? They consider PTs and Sins too survivable in PvP (ikr? )? Juggs don't have it so they want to put all the melee, tanking capable, classes on equal footing? (just give it to Juggs then? ) Or did Brontes call them to complain PTs and Sins weren't hurt enough by her final tantrums? "Look, Keith, I'm already at my wits' end with those insufferable shrouding freaks making a mockery of my beatiful arcing assaults, you gotta give me something here!".

Here's what I think happened:

They wanted to give AoE DR to the dps specs, but not to the tank specs (because it was quite ridiculous when sin tanks had it), but then the utility did nothing for tanks. So for some idiotic reason they decided to split out the stun DR and give it to tanks only, even though tanks hardly need it. Because Bioware

[supertimtaf]

Here's what I think happened:

They wanted to give AoE DR to the dps specs, but not to the tank specs (because it was quite ridiculous when sin tanks had it), but then the utility did nothing for tanks. So for some idiotic reason they decided to split out the stun DR and give it to tanks only, even though tanks hardly need it. Because Bioware

 

Honestly right now I don't think the aoe DR on tank would be that strange. In PvP an engineering sniper can easily ruin a tank with his plasma probe, or even a good madness sorcerer. This would help a lot on fight with guarded target.

Imo both dps and tank needs the two buffs.

The funniest thing though is how they said that Hatred defenses weren't that good, and they managed to make it worse by taking away the 30% DR when stunned

 

I seem to recall that somebody predicted that as «the worst scenario possible»

Edited October 29, 2017 by supertimtaf

[AdjeYo]

Honestly right now I don't think the aoe DR on tank would be that strange. In PvP an engineering sniper can easily ruin a tank with his plasma probe, or even a good madness sorcerer. This would help a lot on fight with guarded target.

Imo both dps and tank needs the two buffs.

The funniest thing though is how they said that Hatred defenses weren't that good, and they managed to make it worse by taking away the 30% DR when stunned

 

I seem to recall that somebody predicted that as «the worst scenario possible»

 

AoE DR on tanks wouldn't necessarily be bad for PvP maybe, but for PvE it's just ridiculous as quite a decent portion of damage taken by tanks counts as AoE, it was one of the reasons Assassin tanks were by far the best tank in PvE when 5.0 dropped.

[Glocko]

A few more rounds of nerfs and maybe all classes will be on the PT and JUGG level.