Utility Changes coming in GU 5.6

[ottffsse]

Given that it seems a lot of classes not names sniper, merc or fury mara are getting the shaft, dps sorcs should be "fine" (on average).

 

The real issue - at least from an objective dps standpoint is that the sorc/sage dot spec (madness/balance) has inferior dps output when balancing around +5%/0%/-5% dps target categories when compared to IO Merc, Eng Sniper, and even Virulence Sniper. This is the result that it does a bit too little damage in the pre-execute phase - when a target is at above 30% health. Hatred/Serenity Shadow has the same problem when compared with other dps dealers in it's damage category. Please look into this and fix this for these two specs.

 

Madness/Balance - 9,76K dps max on 2.5 mil while other sustained rdps specs at 10k+

Serenity/Hatred - 10,3K max on 2.5mil target while other melee sustained doing 10,5K+

 

So the difference is about 250-300 dps.

[Letsjet]

Coming pack after years. I have all chacters,Subclasses lvls 60/70 (but both factions) that I will be leveling forom 60/70 to max. Invlusing the euperen server for 1.

 

With the upcoming class patch, I would by EXTATIC to know thoughts on that Classes/Subclesses would be right for solo leveling, and what Classes/Subclasses should be due for the next buff/nerf nex tim in 3-5 months!

 

Much, much thanks!

Letsjet

[ottffsse]

Coming pack after years. I have all chacters,Subclasses lvls 60/70 (but both factions) that I will be leveling forom 60/70 to max. Invlusing the euperen server for 1.

 

With the upcoming class patch, I would by EXTATIC to know thoughts on that Classes/Subclesses would be right for solo leveling, and what Classes/Subclasses should be due for the next buff/nerf nex tim in 3-5 months!

 

Much, much thanks!

Letsjet

 

Healing: Sage, 2nd option Mando

Tanking: Shadow is best, although Vanguard has uses still because of hydrolic overrides but Shadow is generally more solid all round choice

DPS: Mara sentinel mdps, sniper slinger rdps - ie bioware can't screw up all 3 subclasses of a pure dps class, 2nd choice would be probably vanguard mdps, sage rdps

 

notes: these are PvE biased choices as Vanguard dps is bad in PvP but good in PvE. Sage and Mando heals are good in both PvP and PvE. Tanks - Meh you don't really pure tank in PvP anymore but just run skank.

Edited November 4, 2017 by ottffsse

[Kirtastropohe]

Hey folks,

 

Here are some updated changes for Carnage and Combat from the dev team:

-eric

 

You've demonstrated you can alter intended changes when they are not right, now please stop the utility destroying of infiltration in the upcoming patch. Taking away our ability to have a 30% DR while stunned is brutal, especially given you already crushed us with your 5.5 nerfs.

[reppaz]

Eric

What about Powertechs?

 

They needed a suriviabillty buff instead you nerfed them? WHY!

[supertimtaf]

Eric

What about Powertechs?

 

They needed a suriviabillty buff instead you nerfed them? WHY!

 

Metrics said so

 

More seriously, seems like it was too much work to actually understand why dps class where taking too much damage and how to avoid it.

 

If we follow BW current balance system we currently have

->Ranged should deal less damage than melee :

Strange, melee usually have what we call a (or multiples) "Gap Closer" (an ability allowing them to move quickly to their opponent, often a jump or quick dash, sometimes a speed buff too).

So there shouldn't be any difference between ranged and melee, ranged should have almost the same number of escape than a melee have gap closer, in order to keep melee and ranged balanced in pvp (a ranged should be able to kite, slow or root, sure, but a melee should also be able to keep up). Oh, and Gap Closer should work properly too (#PhantomStride)

So give more/better (or fix) gap closer for melee class. With this fixed, there isn't any reason to make melee deal more damage than ranged, along with ranged dealing more damage than melee, since target swapping wouldn't be a problem anymore.

 

->DoT class should deal more damage than burst class on single target :

Strange too, DoT class usually have what we call a "DoT Spread", which allow them to deal damage on multiple target at the same time. A DoT spec shouldn't deal more damage than a burst spec on a single target. They should deal a tiny, tiny less amount of damage on single target but should outperform when it comes to multiples target. With the current meta decided by Bioware, DoT spec will deal more damage on a single target than a burst spec, leading them to literally crush any burst spec when it comes to multiple target. I think there has been a confusion somewhere, no ?

 

-> Ranged must be more resistant than Melee :

That is quite uncommon, as BW said it earlier this year, Melee does have an inherent disadvantage, because they must stick to their target in order to dps properly, hence making them more vulnerable to damage like cleaves or AoE who can be avoided easily by ranged dps. Keep in mind that in PvP, ranged dps can indeed kite their opponent while still using some ability to dps, something that a melee won't really be able to do.

Both Ranged and Melee are also very vulnerable to stun, which are everywhere in swtor, hence there shouldn't be any difference between ranged and melee regarding damage reduction while stunned. In short, Ranged shouldn't be more resistant and have better defensive options than a melee, both should have almost the same defensive option, with a little more coming to melee dps, due to the fact that ranged have multiples "escape" ability.

 

Yep, three reason as to why the balance system should be reworked so that every class can feel somewhat "equal".

 

Can we please have some insight from the class balance team about this ?

[reppaz]

Metrics said so

 

More seriously, seems like it was too much work to actually understand why dps class where taking too much damage and how to avoid it.

 

If we follow BW current balance system we currently have

->Ranged should deal less damage than melee :

Strange, melee usually have what we call a (or multiples) "Gap Closer" (an ability allowing them to move quickly to their opponent, often a jump or quick dash, sometimes a speed buff too).

So there shouldn't be any difference between ranged and melee, ranged should have almost the same number of escape than a melee have gap closer, in order to keep melee and ranged balanced in pvp (a ranged should be able to kite, slow or root, sure, but a melee should also be able to keep up). Oh, and Gap Closer should work properly too (#PhantomStride)

So give more/better (or fix) gap closer for melee class. With this fixed, there isn't any reason to make melee deal more damage than ranged, along with ranged dealing more damage than melee, since target swapping wouldn't be a problem anymore.

 

->DoT class should deal more damage than burst class on single target :

Strange too, DoT class usually have what we call a "DoT Spread", which allow them to deal damage on multiple target at the same time. A DoT spec shouldn't deal more damage than a burst spec on a single target. They should deal a tiny, tiny less amount of damage on single target but should outperform when it comes to multiples target. With the current meta decided by Bioware, DoT spec will deal more damage on a single target than a burst spec, leading them to literally crush any burst spec when it comes to multiple target. I think there has been a confusion somewhere, no ?

 

-> Ranged must be more resistant than Melee :

That is quite uncommon, as BW said it earlier this year, Melee does have an inherent disadvantage, because they must stick to their target in order to dps properly, hence making them more vulnerable to damage like cleaves or AoE who can be avoided easily by ranged dps. Keep in mind that in PvP, ranged dps can indeed kite their opponent while still using some ability to dps, something that a melee won't really be able to do.

Both Ranged and Melee are also very vulnerable to stun, which are everywhere in swtor, hence there shouldn't be any difference between ranged and melee regarding damage reduction while stunned. In short, Ranged shouldn't be more resistant and have better defensive options than a melee, both should have almost the same defensive option, with a little more coming to melee dps, due to the fact that ranged have multiples "escape" ability.

 

Yep, three reason as to why the balance system should be reworked so that every class can feel somewhat "equal".

 

Can we please have some insight from the class balance team about this ?

 

No no and no

 

Range should have less defensive buttons then melee cuz they can aviod 90% of damage, there advantedge is there range, melee usallay been target first "by tab targeting".

 

Melee get stunned more cuz stuns are 4-10 meters.

 

Iam not saying sorcs are OP but mercs are atm and even with the nerfs in 5.6 it is not enogh.

PTs utilities are really bad and need a fix, give 1 of mercs to PTs is a simple fix.

[supertimtaf]

No no and no

 

Range should have less defensive buttons then melee cuz they can aviod 90% of damage, there advantedge is there range, melee usallay been target first "by tab targeting".

 

Melee get stunned more cuz stuns are 4-10 meters.

 

Didn't I just said that ?

 

As for stun, I didn't talk about «who gets stunned more», I just said that both are vulnerable to it, because there is so many stun in swtor.

Melee don't always get stunned more, in fact in ranked it's the opposite. It all depends the situation.

[Kirtastropohe]

You've demonstrated you can alter intended changes when they are not right, now please stop the utility destroying of infiltration in the upcoming patch. Taking away our ability to have a 30% DR while stunned is brutal, especially given you already crushed us with your 5.5 nerfs.

 

No word on this, so I guess while sentinel/marauders got a horrible change altered, operation screwjob is full steam ahead for infiltration shadows. Seems fair....

[supertimtaf]

No word on this, so I guess while sentinel/marauders got a horrible change altered, operation screwjob is full steam ahead for infiltration shadows. Seems fair....

 

i think they are busy with the merge right now. I'm okay with that, but yeah, any info after that is welcome.

[Rion_Starkiller]

i think they are busy with the merge right now. I'm okay with that, but yeah, any info after that is welcome.

 

Probably right. Eric, Keith, the janitor, and the two squirrels on staff are extremely busy.

[BraverDre]

Sorcerer

Madness

• Deathmark stacks are now only consumed by your own periodic damage, and only your periodic damage gains a damage benefit from your Deathmark
  
• Madness (the passive skill) now grants you a 10% armor bonus while your Resurgence is healing you
  

DevNotes: Deathmark stacks were getting consumed by other Sith Inquisitor players’ periodic effects, so we redesigned it to only be consumed by the caster’s own periodic damage. Additionally, Madness needed some extra defensive options, so we gave the discipline a slight defensive boost after using Resurgence on themselves.

--

Lightning

• Convection now grants 5% damage reduction for Lightning Sorcerers while Deionized by anyone’s Static Barrier
  

DevNotes: The Lightning discipline was weak on defensive utilities, so we added 5% damage reduction for Lightning Sorcerers while Deionized by anyone’s Static Barrier.

 

-eric

 

this is not enough. You need to give us more defensives to survive in NiM ops and ToS Revan. Madness is underperforming. The class is useless in pve and pvp ranked. Why sorc players have to wait a year till u make the class playable and fun. 5.0 patch was a mistake and u should listent to us sorcs as well. There are not many players left who wanna play on this class.

Edited November 7, 2017 by BraverDre

[dabbinwax]

Hey Musco make the madness resurgence defense buff 15% instead of 10%.

[DDaMAGEr]

l would want to point at the fact, that DTPS hasn't been equalized yet. Are you planning doing something with Shadow/Assassin unintendedly overpowered no-brainer perks? l'm talking primarily about One with the Shadows/Phasing Phantasm, as well as duration increase for Resilience/Force Shroud, which affects also 2s Resilience, attached to Force Cloak by another perk. Together these utilities make Shadows/Assassins able to ignore mechanic.

Also Guardian/Juggernaut Reflect seems to be able to reflect things (melee damage, Karagga's puddle ticks), those aren't supposed to be reflected, and has mandatory utility to increase its duration as well.

Are you planning to do something with that, also Vanguards/PT are in strong need of one more DCD, not only for DPS, but also for tankrole.

[supertimtaf]

l would want to point at the fact, that DTPS hasn't been equalized yet. Are you planning doing something with Shadow/Assassin unintendedly overpowered no-brainer perks? l'm talking primarily about One with the Shadows/Phasing Phantasm, as well as duration increase for Resilience/Force Shroud, which affects also 2s Resilience, attached to Force Cloak by another perk. Together these utilities make Shadows/Assassins able to ignore mechanic.

Also Guardian/Juggernaut Reflect seems to be able to reflect things (melee damage, Karagga's puddle ticks), those aren't supposed to be reflected, and has mandatory utility to increase its duration as well.

Are you planning to do something with that, also Vanguards/PT are in strong need of one more DCD, not only for DPS, but also for tankrole.

 

Complaining about the shroud who allows to ignore mechanics is like complaining about Entrench allowing snipers to resist cc. As for your issues with the reflect, it's made for this purpose : reflect incoming attack.

For the other changes you want, I hope you can find something else to balance. Right now without the Phasing Phantasm, and especially after the 5.6 utility nerf, assassins are useless in wz, I'll assume that complaining in order to break even more a class isn't your goal, so I'll wait for you to explain how you could balance this properly if the devs take your changes into consideration

Assassins or Jugg aren't exactly the class that needs an ability to be removed or nerfed to the ground, this privilege belongs to merc and snipers. It seems only logical that while removing something «OP» by your standards, we would get something else not «OP» but at least worth using. Am I right ?

[supertimtaf]

We're a little more than ten days before the next update, and still no informations about if you still have some tweaks you'd want to share with us.

 

I'm guessing you're planning to release this as it it ? :/

[cool-dude]

It kind of looks like the people who balance this stuff is just doing whatever they want. I bet they all main mercs.

[nate_river]

So ok..

I never thought I would say something like this but... STOP MOANING ABOUT SORCS/SAGES DEFENSE AND SURVIVABILITY!!!! FFS we need more DMG on burst specs not more and more Def... I play sorc and sage over 5 years (including beta tests) I do PvP and PvE (Balance/Madness is still viable for NiMs) and I can say that defs and survivability of class is pretty nice so conclusion is that the most problems with sorcs and sages lies in currently players base because let be honest no matter how OP or UP your class is if u get globaled by most of opposite team players u will die anyway...

[reppaz]

Stop ignoring PTs, been broken for 1 year Edited November 16, 2017 by reppaz

[Aulus_Claudius]

Wow, this is like a litany of nearly every class change I've wanted for months. I know I don't say it often, but you guys really did a great job here!

 

Nerfing Commandos' defensives, giving all DPS specs AoE damage reduction on classes which have access to it, making Combat's armor reduction stack-based to prevent clipping, which made DPS dependent on a gamey, ping-based mechanic while simultaneously nerfing it a tad compared to Watchman, and fixing the "stealing" of stacks from DoT Sages and Shadows. Amazing.

 

I just wish you'd finally fix the burst Sage/Sorc bug which allows for unlimited instant casting of Telekinetic Wave and Chain Lightning.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Aulus_Claudius

[FerkWork]

Wow, this is like a litany of nearly every class change I've wanted for months. I know I don't say it often, but you guys really did a great job here!

 

Nerfing Commandos' defensives, giving all DPS specs AoE damage reduction on classes which have access to it, making Combat's armor reduction stack-based to prevent clipping, which made DPS dependent on a gamey, ping-based mechanic while simultaneously nerfing it a tad compared to Watchman, and fixing the "stealing" of stacks from DoT Sages and Shadows. Amazing.

 

I just wish you'd finally fix the burst Sage/Sorc bug which allows for unlimited instant casting of Telekinetic Wave and Chain Lightning.

 

They fixed the CL Exploit.

[Aulus_Claudius]

They fixed the CL Exploit.

Really? Okay, guess I was ignorant of that since I don't play much Sage/Sorc. I stand corrected. Then I guess they really have outdone themselves lately!

[supertimtaf]

Really? Okay, guess I was ignorant of that since I don't play much Sage/Sorc. I stand corrected. Then I guess they really have outdone themselves lately!

 

it really depends the perspective tbh. Except Combat/Carnage, who was expected to receive a fix, I don't see those changes made correctly for the most part. Sure, they intend to adress some issues, but don't do it at all, or create another in the end.

[DavidAtkinson]

it really depends the perspective tbh. Except Combat/Carnage, who was expected to receive a fix, I don't see those changes made correctly for the most part. Sure, they intend to adress some issues, but don't do it at all, or create another in the end.

 

Carnage changes are very good. Making a spec's damage depend on 3 second window was stupid, especially with 0 CC immunity.

[BraverDre]

u have to nerf operatives. its the most overpowered class in 4vs4 and 1vs1. Not even saying how they abuse roll on grass on Alderaan pvp map!!!! stop this madness!