Utility Changes coming in GU 5.6

[supertimtaf]

AoE DR on tanks wouldn't necessarily be bad for PvP maybe, but for PvE it's just ridiculous as quite a decent portion of damage taken by tanks counts as AoE, it was one of the reasons Assassin tanks were by far the best tank in PvE when 5.0 dropped.

 

Exactly, that's the reason why I'm not against every tank having this aoe damage reduction.

This would make them more «equal» and wouldn't be this bad for a role that is clearly underrated right now

[Darthanimus]

So now slingers and snipers get about 26k heals from the defensive safeguards and shield reserves. That is one enemy move (with a crit) in a war zone. You may as well remove it as in ranked it is a useless utility now. I for one main a slinger and sniper and now I cannot go my main toon cause of this massive nerf, the DPS nerf was hard going, now this. The class is ruined and as ineffective as it was before 5.0. Change is to 2% if you are really intent on reducing heals gained, but 1% is insane, what the hell are you thinking. I know you (devs) do not play warzone, you haven't the slightest clue on how it all works.

 

What triggers me most is that all your tweaking here and tweaking there makes you look indecisive and by extension unprofessional. So tired of the constant anger I feel at your silly changes and the lack of insight into your own game. You all should be made contractually to play swtor for a minimum amount of time per week as to know what the hell you're doing.

 

I am hugely mad at the new changes.

[ArcTrooperElite]

Dude what are you even talking about. Eric said there would be no DPS lost. You have to use feminist math.

 

40% of Sent/Mara Players do 20% less damage, 60% of Sent/Mara Players 10% more damge overall no change in damage for the Sent/Mara Class.

 

I really, REALLY hope you're being sarcastic here. If not you don't even remotely have a clue what you're talking about. You should go write post about how you want to romance arcann or a hutt or whoever and let the adults talk.

[jarodx]

Are idiots working on the game?

Change of combat spec are so ridiculous. Do you know how work yours game?

Now I can us 3 or 4 skills in Precision window.

You want say dmg 2 skills in precision (new) is same dmg 3-4 skills in precision (now).

Really?

What do you expect from rednecks?

Edited October 29, 2017 by jarodx

[Draekier]

Hey folks,

--

Marauder

Carnage

• Ferocity is now stack-based with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds, affecting Devastating Blast, Gore, Vicious Throw and Massacre, and consuming a stack each time they are used
  

DevNotes: We noticed a disparity between damage output on the Carnage discipline from players that could successfully “clip” a Vicious Throw in a Ferocity window and those who couldn’t, due to factors outside of their control like server latency. Clipping lead to being able to use 3 abilities affected by Ferocity during the original 3 second window instead of 2. To remedy this, we changed Ferocity to be stack based, with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds. Additionally, Ferocity now only affects certain abilities, making it possible for players to use a less optimal ability during the window without sacrificing a stack Ferocity.

 

Although this will look like a DPS loss, Carnage’s target DPS has always been calculated without “clipping” in mind, so this change should effectively normalize Carnage’s DPS to our target.

 

Thanks!

 

-Eric

 

Abilities that land after the "ferocity" buff is activated (clipping) and abilities that are activated just before ferocity ends are both affected by ferocity. Because of this "4" abilities can be buffed in a single ferocity window when carnage's berserk is used, though this requires a lot of practice to be done reliably. Due to this nature of ferocity, "3" abilities can be buffed in a ferocity window when the carnage berserk is not utilized without clipping. Because of this, your proposed changes to carnage will be a massive nerf because carnage is being dropped from 7 buffed abilities every two ferocity windows to 4 buffed abilities every two ferocity windows.

 

Another issue i have with these changes is that it removes the exciting and original play style of carnage and replaces it with button mashing. If you must make a change to the carnage discipline, at least change it to something thats interesting to play. Be creative. We have enough stack based classes .

 

I would advice you hold off any changes until you are completely familiar with how the carnage discipline works.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Sorcs/Sages will still have their 30% stun DR. That's the only ranged class I play. What about snipers & mercs?

 

Maybe ranged are keeping it? but all dps melee is losing it?

 

The weird thing about all these changes to utilities/ abilities is that they usually happen all at once with new level cap and new version/expansion. (ex: 6.0 and level 75). Is BWA going to change everything again in early 2018 with 6.0?

Edited October 29, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[supertimtaf]

Sorcs/Sages will still have their 30% stun DR. That's the only ranged class I play. What about snipers & mercs?

 

Maybe ranged are keeping it? but all dps melee is losing it?

 

This is also weird considering that melee dps were far from being super resistant (Powertech and Jugg weren't that OP in the curent PvP meta). I can only assume they are going to put back these utility as a whole instead of separating both effect like that... At least, I really hope so, otherwise they'll have to explain it with really, really good arguments.

[Hoppinswtor]

Do this instead:

 

Powertech

In addition to its other effects, the Hitman utility now reduces the damage taken from area of effect attacks by 30% for the Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype disciplines, and reduces the damage taken while stunned by 30% for the Shield Tech discipline.

Kolto Surge is a passive for both Pyrotech and AP and resists all damage for the first 2 seconds. Pyro also gets Stabilized Armor.

Rail Shot and Magnetic Blast range are increased to 15 meters by default.

 

Sorcerer

Instawhirl is now a Skillful Tier utility, swapping places with Dizzying Force. Increase accuracy debuff of Dizzing Force to 30 percent to compensate for the higher tier.

Madness

Deathmark stacks are now only consumed by your own periodic damage, and only your periodic damage gains a damage benefit from your Deathmark

Madness (the passive skill) now grants you 10% DAMAGE REDUCTION (screw armor rating BS) while your Resurgence is healing you

Whirlwind can no longer be broken by your affliction, though it can still be broken by Creeping Terror and Demolish.

DevNotes: Deathmark stacks were getting consumed by other Sith Inquisitor players’ periodic effects, so we redesigned it to only be consumed by the caster’s own periodic damage. Additionally, Madness needed some extra defensive options, so we gave the discipline a slight defensive boost after using Resurgence on themselves.

--

Lightning

Convection now grants 5% damage reduction for Lightning Sorcerers while Deionized by anyone’s Static Barrier

Polarity Shift grants two stacks of Corrupted Healing; consume one stack to cast a Dark Heal instantly and with 30 percent increased potency.

Whirlwind can no longer be broken by your Affliction, though it can still be broken by Crushing Darkness.

DevNotes: The Lightning discipline was weak on defensive utilities, so we added 5% damage reduction for Lightning Sorcerers while Deionized by anyone’s Static Barrier. It also needs some love in the off healing category, so we adjusted that.

--

Assassin

All specs get a passive 30 percent AoE damage reduction. Deathmark fix for hatred also applied. For Hatred, deflection's cooldown will be reduced by 30 seconds. For Deception, the cooldown for Shroud will be reduced by 15 seconds.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Hoppinswtor

[ottffsse]

Hey folks,

 

As we alluded to in the roadmap, we are planning a host of utility changes in Game Update 5.6 coming on 11/28. Instead of splitting them up by Class we decided to just deliver all of them to you at once. Below you will find every utility change that is currently planned:

 

Sorcerer

Madness

• Deathmark stacks are now only consumed by your own periodic damage, and only your periodic damage gains a damage benefit from your Deathmark
  
• Madness (the passive skill) now grants you a 10% armor bonus while your Resurgence is healing you
  

DevNotes: Deathmark stacks were getting consumed by other Sith Inquisitor players’ periodic effects, so we redesigned it to only be consumed by the caster’s own periodic damage. Additionally, Madness needed some extra defensive options, so we gave the discipline a slight defensive boost after using Resurgence on themselves.

--

Lightning

• Convection now grants 5% damage reduction for Lightning Sorcerers while Deionized by anyone’s Static Barrier
  

DevNotes: The Lightning discipline was weak on defensive utilities, so we added 5% damage reduction for Lightning Sorcerers while Deionized by anyone’s Static Barrier.

--

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Eric could you test to see if 1.) on Madness the 10% armor bonus proc can be changed to 10% damage reduction proc that would be more useful. - would not mind if it is a lesser % as long as it is flat damage reduction and not armor bonus.

2.) On lightning, some slight additional proc to make dark heal an instant activation - maybe like hoppi above suggested that during after activating either mental alacrity/polarity shift or force speed dark heal may be cast instantly once.

 

Such changes would be overall more useful for madness - as a lot of damage in PvP ignores armor anyways, and on lightning it probably needs a just a tiny bit more than the 5% armor reduction on deionized. - a second effective option to heal instantly from time to time while while still being able to kite/ and dps. Thanks!

Edited October 29, 2017 by ottffsse

[Hoppinswtor]

Eric could you test to see if 1.) on Madness the 10% armor bonus proc can be changed to 10% damage reduction proc that would be more useful. - would not mind if it is a lesser % as long as it is flat damage reduction and not armor bonus.

2.) On lightning, some slight additional proc to make dark heal an instant activation - maybe like hoppi above suggested that during after activating either mental alacrity/polarity shift or force speed dark heal may be cast instantly once.

 

Such changes would be overall more useful for madness - as a lot of damage in PvP ignores armor anyways, and on lightning it probably needs a just a tiny bit more than the 5% armor reduction on deionized. - a second effective option to heal instantly from time to time while while still being able to kite/ and dps. Thanks!

 

10 percent DR might seem a little extreme on the surface because you can have 100 percent uptime on Resurgence. However, it's a big dps loss to do this: you'd have to re-apply Resurgence every 9 seconds, compared to every 20 seconds for Deionized (and in PvP you'll be spending a GCD every ~20 seconds to bubble yourself regardless of your spec, so Lightning doesn't really lose any GCDs to these buffs.) The tradeoff seems fair if the switch is made from armor boost to DR: madness would lose a few GCDs to take advantage of its defensives, but would get a better defensive buff, and those dots will be ticking as they kite anyway. 10 percent armor boost is complete garbage though; it should absolutely be DR.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Hoppinswtor

[onidakken]

casters shud only cast. range shud only range mellee shud only melee healers shud be the ONLY heals. rest is just more unbalance in an already unbalanced pvp.

[giorgo]

casters shud only cast. range shud only range mellee shud only melee healers shud be the ONLY heals. rest is just more unbalance in an already unbalanced pvp.

 

U wot?

[KaellSolaris]

Hey folks,

 

Sentinel

Combat

• Precision is now stack-based with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds, affecting Clashing Blast, Lance, Dispatch, and Blade Rush, and consuming a stack each time they are used
  

DevNotes: We noticed a disparity between damage output on the Combat discipline from players that could successfully “clip” a Dispatch in a Precision window and those who couldn’t, due to factors outside of their control like server latency. Clipping lead to being able to use 3 abilities affected by Precision during the original 3 second window instead of 2. To remedy this, we changed Precision to be stack based, with 2 stacks lasting 10 seconds. Additionally, Precision now only affects certain abilities, making it possible for players to use a less optimal ability during the window without sacrificing a stack of Precision.

 

Although this will look like a DPS loss, Combat’s target DPS has always been calculated without “clipping” in mind, so this change should effectively normalize Combat’s DPS to our target.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

As it was said by many people, can we have a third stack if we used Precision while Zen is active ?

 

also Cyclone Slash not in the list but blade rush is ?

[KittyKat_Karrot]

Most likely this change won't impact you since it's evident you either don't play sniper, are unable to read or lack understanding of the class. This is a small buff to Snipers as it's rare that your dots crits more than 50% of the time.

 

He's talking about the massive nerf to ballistic shield heal talent dude rofl

[ottffsse]

10 percent DR might seem a little extreme on the surface because you can have 100 percent uptime on Resurgence. However, it's a big dps loss to do this: you'd have to re-apply Resurgence every 9 seconds, compared to every 20 seconds for Deionized (and in PvP you'll be spending a GCD every ~20 seconds to bubble yourself regardless of your spec, so Lightning doesn't really lose any GCDs to these buffs.) The tradeoff seems fair if the switch is made from armor boost to DR: madness would lose a few GCDs to take advantage of its defensives, but would get a better defensive buff, and those dots will be ticking as they kite anyway. 10 percent armor boost is complete garbage though; it should absolutely be DR.

 

It is balanced like I did many tests on madness/balance after 5.3 energy adjustments and I know that spamming resurgence to keep 100% uptime on it will slowly deplete your resources - unless all you want to do is spam force lightning to get energy back in between. But if you are doing your full rotation, bubble yourself and someone else a bit and spam resurgence it will eventually drain your resources. So having it is straight up DR would not be bad as you can maintain resurgence uptime 100% up to a certain point anyways - like 1,5-2min before you become overextended.

[BlevatToshnit]

Frankly, i have expected that obfuscate utility will be nerfed too. Since it grant actuall immortality for 6 seconds against all classes and specs, if it apllied directly to the target (and for most specs which cant hit marauder while obfuscate is active, even if it's apllied not on them), i think soon we will see that marauder become new FOTM, and everyone around will complain about them.

[omaan]

Some dps classes like sorcs will still have their 30% stun reduction buff whilst devs took it from meele classes. And combat team still thinks that they are competent? This game is doomed

[reppaz]

Some dps classes like sorcs will still have their 30% stun reduction buff whilst devs took it from meele classes. And combat team still thinks that they are competent? This game is doomed

 

They dont play this game!

Range has 30% stun reduction and not melee LOL.

 

Melee are the ones that are getting stunned the most, cuz range can stand 30 m away and aviod 90% of stuns,

 

Jugg, PT and Sin should have 30% stun reduction only.

Combat team is a joke, fix your game.

[supertimtaf]

They dont play this game!

Range has 30% stun reduction and not melee LOL.

 

Melee are the ones that are getting stunned the most, cuz range can stand 30 m away and aviod 90% of stuns,

 

Jugg, PT and Sin should have 30% stun reduction only.

Combat team is a joke, fix your game.

 

That's the issue here yeah. Most of the changes here aren't logical for players, and I think were made by peoples who didn't play the game, peoples who just looked at the code or whatever :/

 

10% armor bonus for madness ? They are in light armor, this won't change a thing

No more damage reduction when stunned for melee class ? I hope you remove the ability to use cc in PvP then, because any premade that knows a bit about hardswap will tear through any wz now.

Oh, and mercenary got to keep the 60% heal on kolto surge also, it's not like 10% will change anything, there isn't many difference because in both case the heal bonus is too strong to be bypassed except when you have three dps bursting hard on the same guy...

Also strange to see no changes at all to ruthless aggressor, who was the main utility that needed a slight tune down. I also like how they didn't wanted to completely remove the self heal on ballistic shield. ^^

The more indicative though is the 2 stack only for ferocity (who doesn't affect sweeping slash), which clearly reflect the little knowledge about the spec. ^^'

[reppaz]

--

Mercenary

Trauma Regulators now heals for 4% per stack instead of 5% and stacks 10 times instead of 15

The heal from Kolto Overload given by Kolto Surge can only heal the Mercenary up to 60% of their maximum health instead of 70%

Trauma Regulators is a now a Heroic utility and Kolto Surge is now a Legendary utility

DevNotes: The Mercenary’s defensive options were too good, so we reduced the effectiveness of Trauma Regulators and Kolto Surge.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL :eek:

 

This dosnt change anything, merc still will be OP.

3 oh **** buttons while in good mode, dpsing at the same time LOL.

 

Sorc while using barrier cant attack, mercs dosnt have any side effects while using there oh **** buttons.

Edited October 30, 2017 by reppaz

[Kirtastropohe]

Once 5.5 happened, as I've said many times, I totally lost any enthusiasm for PvP in this game, but I pinned some hopes that the utility adjustments would help. They've helped alright, but not in a way the devs would like. Now that I've seen the list, I am totally cured of my desire to play, period.

 

These utility changes are so awful. I would really love to hear the Devs give explanations that make any sense, aside from the basic "we felt this was overperforming or this was underperforming". I'd love to see it, because there's no way they can justify them, especially taking away DR when stunned for shadows. How freaking hard is it to understand that you have taken the already all too often occurrence of being stunned a ton, and now made it all the most frustrating for the classes that going to be stunned the most, and just gave us shadows even more of a death sentence than your 5.5 nerfs already had?

 

I don't like saying bad and negative things, especially knowing that people are trying to do the best they can. I still want to believe they are, but I must admit, stuff like this shakes my faith that they are. We are told the people who make these changes do in fact, PvP, but how can that possibly be? These utility changes, as is BW standard operating procedure, go to far to punish some classes and not enough in removing obviously broken OP crap for others.

 

Instead of addressing valid concerns and moving towards having some faith restored by your player base, you have and will further alienate us and drive even the most passionate ones, such as myself, to a point where we question why we put ourselves through the unfun of playing your game.

[Samoth_Nomad]

Eric, can you talk with the team about this change please? This doesn't just look like a DPS loss, it is, for all Combat players. Not just those who clip. Blade Barrage isn't a less optimal skill, it's always used under Precision and yet isn't included in the new Precision stacks. Ataru Form Strikes are also left out of the Precision window, which is a DPS loss, especially when Blade Rush is used during the Precision window. There's no reason whatsoever to leave those two things out. Cyclone Slash being left off also hurts, especially since it's given a buff to cost less Focus when using Zen.

 

Moreso than that, unless there's a utility change to add an extra stack to Precision in some way (or perhaps Zen could do that, but it's not listed here), you've effectively reduced the number of attacks Precision can affect for all players since with Zen, getting 3 attacks in a Precision window doesn't require clipping at all and is fairly easy to do. So that is a straight up DPS loss for most Combat players.

 

I understand the desire to eliminate clipping. If it's not intended and it's affecting the DPS targets for the class, alright. That's fair enough. I can live with that. This goes beyond eliminating clipping, though, and straight up kills part of the class by significantly diminishing its bread-and-butter buff. It removes Zen's interaction with Precision (unless Zen gives it an extra stack or something, again, not shown here so I'm assuming it doesn't) and reduces the amount of attacks possible within Precision for all Combat players, especially with the current effectiveness of Alacrity.

 

If I may, Eric, please pass this suggestion to the team for a potential compromise: Make Zen add 1 additional stack to Precision (so, back to 3 abilities when using Zen, as is currently possible without clipping). Add Blade Barrage and Cyclone Slash as abilities that use up stacks and gain the benefits, as is currently the case. Make Ataru Form Strikes gain the benefits of Precision without using stacks, but either lower Precision's new duration a bit to prevent abuse on that (which would likely be a DPS loss anyway but I imagine it's still something that would need to be kept in mind) or make it a buff that applies when Precision is activated that has a shorter duration more similar to Precision's old duration.

 

I tried to be reasonable with these suggestions, because I seriously don't want to see this change go live in its current state. It would severely damage Combat in a way that isn't at all necessary if clipping can be removed without doing so. I think all of the suggestions would be doable in the current system and would effectively achieve the goals of this change without nerfing Combat overall due to the various oversights I listed above.

 

Thank you.

 

I second this post. Please reconsider your proposed changes. You are effectively killing the class I have played since launch. This is not hyperbole. It is glaringly obvious that whomever is in charge of these changes, has never learned how to properly play the spec. Also, we have this stat called alacrity. Since 2.0, it's been common knowledge that combat/carnage benefits from alacrity. Did your combat balance guy take this stat into account when he decided that only 2 strikes should fit into precision? Because like almost every player has already posted, we can currently fit 3 without clipping, with or without zen(which, along with alacrity, you seem to have forgotten exists). What you guys have stated for reasoning makes no sense and is not reflected in reality. While I agree that our AoE is a bit OP, this change will also turn our AoE into a wet noodle. Cyclone should be included but perhaps with a slight nerf to it's dmg.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Samoth_Nomad

[giorgo]

I second this post. Please reconsider your proposed changes. You are effectively killing the class I have played since launch. This is not hyperbole. It is glaringly obvious that whomever is in charge of these changes, has never learned how to properly play the spec. Also, we have this stat called alacrity. Since 2.0, it's been common knowledge that combat/carnage benefits from alacrity. Did your combat balance guy take this stat into account when he decided that only 2 strikes should fit into precision? Because like almost every player has already posted, we can currently fit 3 without clipping, 4 with zen. No clipping involved. What you guys have stated for reasoning makes no sense and is not reflected in reality.

 

Actually, the only way to fit 4 abilities in ferocity is with clipping, but that is all. In every other scenario 3 abilities are standard WITHOUT CLIPPING. So I don't know how the devs came to the idea that 2 stacks will do.

Honestly I think this is just a random,lazy and untested attempt to fix clipping.

[supertimtaf]

Once 5.5 happened, as I've said many times, I totally lost any enthusiasm for PvP in this game, but I pinned some hopes that the utility adjustments would help. They've helped alright, but not in a way the devs would like. Now that I've seen the list, I am totally cured of my desire to play, period.

 

These utility changes are so awful. I would really love to hear the Devs give explanations that make any sense, aside from the basic "we felt this was overperforming or this was underperforming". I'd love to see it, because there's no way they can justify them, especially taking away DR when stunned for shadows. How freaking hard is it to understand that you have taken the already all too often occurrence of being stunned a ton, and now made it all the most frustrating for the classes that going to be stunned the most, and just gave us shadows even more of a death sentence than your 5.5 nerfs already had?

 

I don't like saying bad and negative things, especially knowing that people are trying to do the best they can. I still want to believe they are, but I must admit, stuff like this shakes my faith that they are. We are told the people who make these changes do in fact, PvP, but how can that possibly be? These utility changes, as is BW standard operating procedure, go to far to punish some classes and not enough in removing obviously broken OP crap for others.

 

Instead of addressing valid concerns and moving towards having some faith restored by your player base, you have and will further alienate us and drive even the most passionate ones, such as myself, to a point where we question why we put ourselves through the unfun of playing your game.

 

This.

 

I second this post. Please reconsider your proposed changes. You are effectively killing the class I have played since launch. This is not hyperbole. It is glaringly obvious that whomever is in charge of these changes, has never learned how to properly play the spec. Also, we have this stat called alacrity. Since 2.0, it's been common knowledge that combat/carnage benefits from alacrity. Did your combat balance guy take this stat into account when he decided that only 2 strikes should fit into precision? Because like almost every player has already posted, we can currently fit 3 without clipping, 4 with zen. No clipping involved. What you guys have stated for reasoning makes no sense and is not reflected in reality.

 

And also this.

 

In both of those case, we need more explanations, more details rather than the horrible "we felt that those changes are an improvement instead of a nerf" or "2 stacks will be enough, trust me, I'm a dev".

 

I strongly suggest any dev reading this topic to reflect on the multiples statement made by the majority of the players here. Sure, they do not represent the entire playerbase of this game, however, most of the critics here were decent, well thought and well made. Furthermore, they stayed the same for an entire year.

You should definitely refocus and reflect on those critics for a bit, the change Musco posted are not, and cannot be, what will be made for 5.6 simply because most of them do not improve much or they simply make things worse.

This is clearly not thought well enough, especially since this was requested and confirmed since last year.

 

If you guys need some help or suggestions made by actual players, along with request that where made since last year, you should maybe look at post like this one along with the multiple post that players made since last year.

 

Oh, and... We are not acting like spoiled kids or whatever (even if I'm sure some of the devs may think so ), but this is far from the quality and balance we were promised for these changes. Utility balance was more than fine in 4.0 , what went wrong for 5.0 ? And what makes it so difficult to fix ?

[PlagaNerezza]

I'm sure there is a ton of madness sorc's smiling on this. Lowered dcd's for everyone but sorc. deathmarks stacking. sounds like fun.