Revoke EA/BioFails Rights to Star Wars

[kodrac]

The movie did so well because of the story of friendship and struggle and scifi space action and drama, not because of the Force. Both those movies broke records in their days and it wasn't because of Jedi vs Sith story or force lightsabre fights, People didn't go for those reasons,

 

Exactly! It wasn't until AFTER Vader used his Force powers and a semi-lightsaber duel with Luke did we start to want more of the Force and want to know more about Jedi (Yoda and the cave helped too). To say the original trilogy is about Jedi vs Sith is a leap and it's only because of Lucas' overall story. The original audience didn't have those preconceptions.

Edited September 5, 2017 by kodrac

[DarthDymond]

The movie didn't even mention the sith. Tarkin even referred to Jedi as being a religious order that Darth was the last of.

This is one of the things that I always want to bring up whenever someone goes on about what Star Wars is "really" about. You can argue the underlying concept was there from the start, but the word "Sith" doesn't even appear in any of the original movies at all. It only existed in the promotional material like the toy packaging (and maybe the novelization), and even then it was solely in calling Darth Vader "Dark Lord of the Sith" - an appellation which, at that time, had no context or indication of what it meant (including whether it had anything to do with him being a fallen Jedi).

 

When Timothy Zahn was breaking the story for the Thrawn Trilogy, his early pitch included having the Noghri be "the Sith" as an answer to what the heck that term meant - a reasonable interpretation at that time of Vader's title meaning he was the Lord over a group called the Sith, rather than necessarily being a "Sith" himself (e.g. Sauron could reasonably be called "Lord of the Orcs" even though he isn't an Orc). It wasn't until Dark Horse comics put out some of their miniseries in the 90s - something like 15 years after A New Hope - that the Sith definitively became the antithesis to the Jedi, and that role wouldn't be solidified as part of the G-Canon until Phantom Menace came out in '99, 22 years after Star Wars premiered.

 

For people who love Star Wars primarily because of the Force mythology and Jedi vs Sith - I'm right there with you, that is by far my personal favorite aspect of the universe. But Star Wars as a whole is a much bigger tent than that, one of the reasons it is so successful is because some people latched on to Luke, while other people latched on to Han, while other people latched on to Vader, while other people latched on to Leia, etc., etc., etc. The fantasy was big enough for everyone - and Rogue One, the X-Wing novels, the Crimson Empire comics, the Republic Commando game, the Tales of the Bounty Hunters short stories, all of that is just as much a part of the I.P. as the Force-focused stories.

Edited September 5, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Vember]

Well, agree to disagree To me, Jedi and Sith are what make Star Wars, the rest of it is sci fi trope. Which isn't a bad thing by any means, but those two are what separate it from the rest.

 

Something tells me, that without Jedi and Sith, Star Wars wouldn't have anywhere near the following that it has had through the years.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Vember

[KerryK]

I have to agree its totally in the wrong hands

[bdatt]

Not in the first movie. Go back and watch the original before G.L got his hands on it and remastered it. The movie is about the rebel struggle to overcome impossible odds in the face of destruction. The Force and Jedi were a small side story.

 

I don't know what led to its commercial success, since I was born in 1978. But to say the force was a small part???

- Discussions between Obi Wan and Luke on Tat, references to the dark side

- Jedi mind trick on the stormtroopers

- The whole training aspect on the Falcon

- Obi Wan on the Death Star (tricking stormtroopers and fading into the force for sake)

- Obi Wan using the force to speak to Luke during the attacks on the Death Star

- "The force is strong with this one" -- Vader

- "The force will be with you, always" -- ObiWan

- Others?

 

The force is like in the whole movie and the only reason the rebels won (every non force user missed the exhaust vent). The lightsaber fights were weak sauce though.

 

Yes the Sith have been elaborated on since then, but they can only build so much back story in one movie.

 

Edit: so I agree Star Wars is about the force (light vs. dark) and by inference Jedi vs. Sith.

Edited September 5, 2017 by bdatt

[casirabit]

While you think it may be easy for them to revoke rights to Star Wars, it is not. EA has rights and a contract and you can't just break a contract without legal problems.

[Tsillah]

I do think they have done more harm than good for the Star Wars IP.

I think that may be somewhat of an overestimation. I have this feeling that the average Star Wars fan has never even heard of SWTOR.

 

It's also not canon, so it's in the side track of things as it is. What I do think is that any chances of KotOR and SWTOR to become canon may have been shot by the less than great reception overall. In the end it's more that BW is struggling more and more to be a convincing entity. Perhaps they are focusing on Anthem so much because they need something new and shiney to distract from their current lowpoint. ME:Andromeda (although it's really not a bad game), certainly marks the lowpoint in the BW history at the moment.

 

I also think it's recoverable even as bad as it's been but I don't think EA or bioware are willing to put in the money, time or talent to make it happen.

So in the end I'd be OK with that you asked above.

It seems to be a general situation that management in any sort of company is more interested in investing into something new than some that's already out there. General is it may be, it's not a very customer centric approach and it does make the assumption customers will come back regardless.

 

There are a couple of SW games in development that are coming out starting next year I suppose. EA is probably banking on that more than SWTOR. Of course they need SWTOR to stay alive for at least a while longer to cover the development gap till something new comes out. But hey, it's not BW making those other games.

 

I really think SWTOR had a lot of good things going for it but it's not in a good spot at the moment. I do hope that 6.0 will be the return to Star Wars for this game. Eternal Command and Galactic Command were doomed to fail from the start, because people weren't asking for a one-size-doesn't-quite-fit-all story line and certainly not a story where most character classes feel rather out of place.

 

People have the right to think it's awesome that their Trooper or Bounty Hunter can become Emperor/Empress but it's just objectively bull.

 

My agents, smugglers and assassins/shadows also would never want to be that much in the limelight.

 

And my dark side characters (most of them basically), would not even consider becoming an alliance commander. Even the title is offensive to them. Not even sure if it's the alliance or commander part that's the worst.

 

Now to revoke the rights to SW for BW...well, I don't think EA will want them to make another SW game any time soon. EA however has other games on the way by different developers and we'll see what that brings us.

 

Personally I am fine with acting like KotFE and KotET never happened and go back to a Star Wars story again. Unfortunately they shook up the entire galaxy with this stuff so they won't be able to write it out of the main story line overall sadly. So I don't think that rights will be revoked, but I think the consequences are already unfolding.

 

A shame, because the game also has really good things in it.

[orangenee]

But it's a stand alone movie.

I've been a massive SW fan since I saw the original in 1977. IMO, I would say Rogue One is in the top three of all the movies.

Just go into it as if it's not a SW movie and you'll be pleasantly surprised how it works.

 

It may well be right now, but there'll be a collection at some point. Disney doesn't miss a beat.

 

I'm ready to be pleased by what I see but I won't be surprised if I'm not.

 

Also I have a dark secret, I didn't much like Empire Strikes Back.

[xordevoreaux]

Good for you.

 

I think it's counterproductive as hell. The game needs work, I don't think anyone would argue that but wanting another house to take over? That IS a recipe for failure.

 

I agree. Switch horses midstream and the game drowns. Just ride it out.

[Andryah]

While you think it may be easy for them to revoke rights to Star Wars, it is not. EA has rights and a contract and you can't just break a contract without legal problems.

 

Pretty much. The thing the OP fails to grasp is that the license between EA and Disney is much broader then just SWTOR.

 

EA has an exclusive license agreement to produce SW IP games (other then some mobile games, which Disney has first rights of refusal on) that runs well into 2023. This is via a 10 year (and renewable) license between the two corporations for EA to have first right of refusal on any SW based game... canon or not.

 

Unless/Until EA and Disney mutually agree to an early termination of that agreement... the OPs demands are simply a waste of electrons in the internet. He can bark and harp until his face turns blue... but this license agreement is very unlikely to terminate early (which is what would be required). In fact, it is much more likely that in 2022.. the two corporations will ink an additional extension of the contract (probably at least 5 years at a time).

Edited September 5, 2017 by Andryah

[Ahbal]

I understand your frustration, but trust me when I say this: Handing it over to another company will make matters far worse. If there are any Halo fans on here, you would know. When 343 took over Halo, they changed it so much. They were completely out of touch with the fanbase.

 

Bioware made this game, they have done the communication and they know what the fans want. The problem is resources! They cannot make another Makeb style expansion purely due to that one word. EA is cutting from bioware month by month! Be happy the game has not been shut down yet.

[fushnchips]

While you think it may be easy for them to revoke rights to Star Wars, it is not. EA has rights and a contract and you can't just break a contract without legal problems.

 

Yes this is very true

[scardera]

I second this. Biofail screwd up S-W licence so bad they should never touch another s-w game ever Edited September 6, 2017 by scardera

[merovejec]

The problem is that they are making more games than SWTOR. As you can see the Battlefront seems to be very good and the phone apps are popular too.

 

The only problem is the way they handled this game

[Atantre_Chants]

great, just because you do not like something you want to spoil it for everybody. Forget making suggestions to improve it, just blow the whole thing.

Here is a counter-suggestion. Why don't you just quit the game if you do not like it and let the rest of us get on with it?

[olagatonjedi]

Like the title says.

 

These guys are an embarrassment to the franchise.

Cant please everyone, nor should they. Its an impossible task, and Ive seen games do a lot worse. Swtor is your typical mmo, not worse or better. It doesn't do anything exceptional, or anything horrible, imo. When you start doing that stuff, you lose many more players because instead you run the risk of completely losing customers. Small changes most customers are willing to live with, despite verbal outcry thats used as a fishing technique to see what players can get away with. Typicsl psychobabble stuff, like children do stuff they know they shouldnt to see if the parents will let them get away with it, then try something a little worse, and check again. Mmo customers complain until they get a buff to their class, and once they do, they do it again, even if the game is balanced. Give an inch, and you set the precedent. The recent nerfs, imo, are a good way for BW to show they are listening, but wont be bullied. Holding strong to their plan is a key to making a successful game, with some (not many) small adaptations based on feedback.

Edited September 6, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[Costello]

While it may appear a little strong, the sentiment maybe right.

 

How many more poor updates can the game survive? How much further can they take the awful betrayal filled story of an utter chump who just follows Lana and Theron around can the story take? How little content can they put out and still deny the game is in maintenance mode?

 

After a while anyone routing for the game starts to look like an idiot, while I'm sure the few people still working on it tell their friends they are drug dealers and pimps rather than live with the embarrassment that they are part of the BW team.

 

People hope the game will be special again and yet it appears that the future is putting out the minimum content with a weekly cartel market sale. While when things are broken or don't work they are ignored and hoped that people forget, while any dev post asking for feedback is instantly ignored, just have a look at the posts of GSF, when it turned out the fix wasn't offer a few more credits it like everything else in the game became too much like hard work to fix.

[Foambreaker]

While it may appear a little strong, the sentiment maybe right.

 

How many more poor updates can the game survive? How much further can they take the awful betrayal filled story of an utter chump who just follows Lana and Theron around can the story take? How little content can they put out and still deny the game is in maintenance mode?

 

After a while anyone routing for the game starts to look like an idiot, while I'm sure the few people still working on it tell their friends they are drug dealers and pimps rather than live with the embarrassment that they are part of the BW team.

 

People hope the game will be special again and yet it appears that the future is putting out the minimum content with a weekly cartel market sale. While when things are broken or don't work they are ignored and hoped that people forget, while any dev post asking for feedback is instantly ignored, just have a look at the posts of GSF, when it turned out the fix wasn't offer a few more credits it like everything else in the game became too much like hard work to fix.

 

If they didn't have the Star Wars brand this game would have been closed a long time ago.

[Foambreaker]

I agree. Switch horses midstream and the game drowns. Just ride it out.

 

You think it is going to get better?

 

This is how software works. After the release the skilled employees quit, because they are skilled and have better opportunities.. The ones that are left are the ones you secretly wish would quit but they won't, instead they take over by attrition and they produce endless crap, because they were never the ones with skills in the first place. To make matters worse this shop is in Austin which is a tiny software island in a desert of low tech. Hiring is a nightmare. So then they "promote from within" until every key employee is basically doing OJT. Finally they drive down revenues until they can't afford to hire top talent, even if that top talent would want to work for them, which they don't because word has gotten around about the shop.

[Totemdancer]

Well, agree to disagree To me, Jedi and Sith are what make Star Wars, the rest of it is sci fi trope. Which isn't a bad thing by any means, but those two are what separate it from the rest.

 

Something tells me, that without Jedi and Sith, Star Wars wouldn't have anywhere near the following that it has had through the years.

 

That's rubbish. Star Wars had a massive following after the first movie and Empire solidified it. Out of that first trilogy, it is Return of the Jedi that is usually relegated to third place.

Those of us who grew up on Star Wars were hooked before Empire came out. By the time the prequels came about there was a whole new generation who were then weaned on the Jedi Sith tales of the prequels. Most of those new generation didn't even see the originals until they'd seen the prequels.

But I can tell you there was way more of my generation at the opening of Phantom Menace than younger people of your generation. We all went in Cos Play. And while there were those who dressed as Obi One and Darth, there were way more of us dressed as Leia, Han, Chewie, Storm Troopers and other Imperial types.

Star Wars has the biggest fan base of any IP. Most of that fan base has been around since the Empire days, well before Return of the Jedi.

I'm not sure if you've ever hear of the 501st legion. If you haven't look it up. It's a world wide group of Cos Play fans and there are chapters in every country and lots of cities and regions have their own detachments. We've been around since 1997, which was well before the Sith vs Jedi prequels. The scale of this fan base is part of the success of Star Wars and I doubt the prequels would have ever been made without it.

To say Star Wars wouldn't have near the following without the whole Jedi vs Sith is codswalop. Any true fan who grew up in the original Star Wars movies era will tell you exactly the same thing. The Force is part of Star Wars, but it's not what holds fans to Star Wars or what makes it great.

I respect that you love that part of it, but you are very wrong about it only being successful because of it.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Totemdancer

[TUXs]

I agree. Switch horses midstream and the game drowns. Just ride it out.

What has it been doing? I'll maintain that nobody would be doing a worse job than Bioware is. SWTOR just doesn't matter to EA...Bioware Austin is only around for another year if Anthem is a success...they don't care about SWTOR.

 

To any other developer, SWTOR would be a flagship game...to EA it's disposable.

[Totemdancer]

What has it been doing? I'll maintain that nobody would be doing a worse job than Bioware is. SWTOR just doesn't matter to EA...Bioware Austin is only around for another year if Anthem is a success...they don't care about SWTOR.

 

To any other developer, SWTOR would be a flagship game...to EA it's disposable.

 

Sad, but so true. EA just don't treat swtor with the respect it should have.

[Totemdancer]

Pretty much. The thing the OP fails to grasp is that the license between EA and Disney is much broader then just SWTOR.

 

EA has an exclusive license agreement to produce SW IP games (other then some mobile games, which Disney has first rights of refusal on) that runs well into 2023. This is via a 10 year (and renewable) license between the two corporations for EA to have first right of refusal on any SW based game... canon or not.

 

Unless/Until EA and Disney mutually agree to an early termination of that agreement... the OPs demands are simply a waste of electrons in the internet. He can bark and harp until his face turns blue... but this license agreement is very unlikely to terminate early (which is what would be required). In fact, it is much more likely that in 2022.. the two corporations will ink an additional extension of the contract (probably at least 5 years at a time).

 

Actually they dont have exclusive rights. There are other games that have been released recently and more to come. These aren't EA game studios,

[Totemdancer]

The problem is that they are making more games than SWTOR. As you can see the Battlefront seems to be very good and the phone apps are popular too.

 

The only problem is the way they handled this game

 

Yeah, I have three SW iPad games, but only one is from EA.

[Totemdancer]

If they didn't have the Star Wars brand this game would have been closed a long time ago.

 

That is very true, people wouldn't have stuck around for 5-6 years, I know I wouldn't. Actually I would never have even started to play the game if it wasn't Star Wars,