Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Pansophist]

Everyone keeps dancing around the main issues with flames and whatnot. But here it is all layed out:

 

1) The slicing nerf was NEEDED. No one really disputes this.

2) The nerf was too much

3) The nerf was done, from all appearances, based on forum noise

4) They focused on this instead of addressing issues like UI problems, Guild/Party Chat breaking, memory leaks and a whole other host of problems that would be more of a concern than slicing itself.

5) The nerf is being judged at a time where the player base and server economies are new.

 

Did I miss any others?

 

Level caps.

[Obi_Ron]

The way slicing was there would be no need for gold farmers...

Sure there would. Players would still want to buy things on the GTN. The hyperinflation caused by slicing would have increased player wealth, but also increased prices correspondingly. As a result, the kind of players who wanted to cheat by buying gold would still have a reason to do so.

[Obi_Ron]

I strongly disagree. Why would I need to buy credits from gold farmers if I have enough to fix my items, buy gear/skills, etc?

See my response to knightnvy, above.

[Vibal_Magus]

What do you call the other gathering professions? We've been down this road before, and everyone still comes back to 'printing money zomg'.

 

Other gathering professions do the same thing. You can argue that they yield items that you can utilize, but I vendor them. What am I doing? I'm generating/printing money.

 

Good argument.

 

Other gathering professions require another player to want/need the thing you have, slicing did not. I would like to see that changed.

 

Slicing DID print money, that was it's primary draw. I would be curious to see how many people broke the 1, 5, and 10 million marks in the first week with a crew skill other than slicing.

[Unojc]

I'm curious, with the nerf done to slicing, how will it change you're buying/spending habits?

 

As one who is still leveling I absolutely refuse to buy anything from anyone now. Not sure how that will be at 50. In fact with how most of the crafting professions are and how many vendor items are better than 400 crafted items, I'll be taking nothing but gathering professions and selling/hoarding. No buying for me.

[SpaghettiMonster]

Does vendoring items you get from missions yield more than what you paid?

 

Don't you mean does selling items you get from missions on the GTN yield more than what you paid? At first maybe not, but as crafting matures certainly there is more potential for greater profit. Sure the market isn't there now, but as things normalize other gathering missions have greater potential for profit than slicing did prenerf. Slicing needed to be adjusted, but it's broken if it yields no potential. What's the point in spending credits in a skill that is nothing but a sink? There has to be some sort of reward. If other gathering skills have no reward at the end of the stick to drag you along, then they are broken too.

[Zakkana]

Level caps.

 

Level caps would be a great fix. WoW used to have them too (not sure if they still do) where every 75 points you needed to go back to your trainer and learn the next level. Do that, and put a level minimum attached to it.

 

I also suggested in the previous thread increasing mission time, increasing mission cost, and slightly decreasing payouts.

[Volki]

Sure there would. Players would still want to buy things on the GTN. The hyperinflation caused by slicing would have increased player wealth, but also increased prices correspondingly. As a result, the kind of players who wanted to cheat by buying gold would still have a reason to do so.

 

And now that they have no money they won't? I had no need for gold farmers before. I have a need for them now. Comprehend?

[knightnvy]

See my response to knightnvy, above.

 

Its not a particularly correct one, we need money changing hands and lets face it the money sinks and crafting missions take too much money out of the system. Slicing was a way to get it back in. My guildies got a lot of extra money i wasnt using and I baught lots of stuff I really didnt need.

 

The really bad part of all this is... it was done with out testing and a FAST reaction to a problem that needed a thought out solution. If they were stalling for time so that this didnt potentially become game breaking then they should have communicated that.

 

 

It really boils down to communication before you mess with someones game.

[Obi_Ron]

And now that they have no money they won't? I had no need for gold farmers before. I have a need for them now. Comprehend?

The economy won't have "no money." The amount of money in the economy just won't be increasing at the rate it was before the slicing fix.

[supersonicks]

I strongly disagree. Why would I need to buy credits from gold farmers if I have enough to fix my items, buy gear/skills, etc?

 

Some people would rather pay real $ for game money for a few reasons. Depends on how much one values effort and time w/ consideration to your spending ability (irl), of course.

[Pansophist]

The economy won't have "no money." The amount of money in the economy just won't be increasing at the rate it was before the slicing fix.

 

Get to level 50. Be broke. Enjoy not being able to sell your crafted items for much more than 5k credits (~10% of your repair bill)

Edited December 29, 2011 by Pansophist

[Zakkana]

Its not a particularly correct one, we need money changing hands and lets face it the money sinks and crafting missions take too much money out of the system. Slicing was a way to get it back in. My guildies got a lot of extra money i wasnt using and I baught lots of stuff I really didnt need.

 

Exactly. My plan was to have my slicer finance my other three characters.

 

Not to mention we get a lot of useless stuff from these missions. Like what am I supposed to do on a Republic Synthweaver with a Sith-Only pattern?

[Syas]

And now that they have no money they won't? I had no need for gold farmers before. I have a need for them now. Comprehend?

 

You don't have a need for them now. Gold farmers are relative. A non-inflated market normalizes just as well as an inflated market. The difference is a non-inflated market provides multiple avenues for reasonable wealth growth, where an inflated one really only provides a few.

 

Whether you have 100 credits and want something that is 1000 or you have 100000 and want something that is 1000000; Gold Farmers are Gold Farmers. The difference is 1000 credits is easier to get through static means than 1000000.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Syas

[Unojc]

And now that they have no money they won't? I had no need for gold farmers before. I have a need for them now. Comprehend?

 

All of the sudden WoW just lost a bunch more subs and Swtor gained a bunch more. Chinas economy just got better.

[Pansophist]

All of the sudden WoW just lost a bunch more subs and Swtor gained a bunch more. Chinas economy just got better.

 

I used to joke about WoW being affiliated with gold sellers.

 

Think about it. If they received a something as small as a 15% return from the gold market.

 

I didn't think this way of Bioware, but with EA's latest business practices I could certainly see them reaching into that market for extra funds.

 

Cause a need for credits, pump the gold selling market in China, invest, profit. Oh, then you can ban a limited number of accounts to make it look like you're doing something about it and force them to buy the game again...more profit.

 

Win-win for China and EA

[knightnvy]

You don't have a need for them now. Gold farmers are relative. A non-inflated market normalizes just as well as an inflated market. The difference is a non-inflated market provides multiple avenues for reasonable wealth growth, where an inflated one really only provides a few.

 

Whether you have 100 credits and want something that is 1000 or you have 100000 and want something that is 1000000; Gold Farmers are Gold Farmers. The difference is 1000 credits is easier to get through static means than 1000000.

 

you are applying real world economics to game economics in GAME economics money simply disappears to money sinks.... so the economy can string past usable limits.

[Obi_Ron]

Its not a particularly correct one, we need money changing hands and lets face it the money sinks and crafting missions take too much money out of the system. Slicing was a way to get it back in. My guildies got a lot of extra money i wasnt using and I baught lots of stuff I really didnt need.

 

The really bad part of all this is... it was done with out testing and a FAST reaction to a problem that needed a thought out solution. If they were stalling for time so that this didnt potentially become game breaking then they should have communicated that.

 

 

It really boils down to communication before you mess with someones game.

I'm not going to claim the nerf doesn't need adjustment; it may well need adjustment. Nor am I going to defend BW/EA's communication on this issue, which I agree was poor. However, I do agree with them that a fast and hard nerf was needed to prevent unreasonable amounts of credits from continuing to pour into the ecomony.

[Dorkfrey]

I'm curious, with the nerf done to slicing, how will it change you're buying/spending habits?

 

As one who is still leveling I absolutely refuse to buy anything from anyone now. Not sure how that will be at 50. In fact with how most of the crafting professions are and how many vendor items are better than 400 crafted items, I'll be taking nothing but gathering professions and selling/hoarding. No buying for me.

 

From my *personal* experience... it's suddenly become *much* harder to sell things.

 

I used to be able to sell enough, to re relatively easily, and work on making better recipes, and then selling those and enjoying crafting.

 

Yup, a small nerf to it might have been a step in the right direction, but this massive kneejerk from BW makes me very tempted to go to a different game. It's like WoW, but worse, because I'd expected better of Bioware.

 

Now, it's an effort to hawk stuff - and it's much more competetive. Which, fine - is one thing.. but - meh, feels like WoW all over again, and I can't be arsed with that.

 

It's like - for the lowbies, who had silly money, they were buying shinies to play with. This is fine. For the high ends who had the same amount of money, they were not really that well off at all - but were ticking over.

[Sterrius]

so using the spreadsheet as base with 2 companions working 24/7 at c5 lockbox i get 1080 creds each hour?

 

I will need 100 hours to make 108k creds. All the time i spend to improve my character from lv1 to 50.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Sterrius

[VioletZero]

Don't you mean does selling items you get from missions on the GTN yield more than what you paid? At first maybe not, but as crafting matures certainly there is more potential for greater profit. Sure the market isn't there now, but as things normalize other gathering missions have greater potential for profit than slicing did prenerf. Slicing needed to be adjusted, but it's broken if it yields no potential. What's the point in spending credits in a skill that is nothing but a sink? There has to be some sort of reward. If other gathering skills have no reward at the end of the stick to drag you along, then they are broken too.

 

No, I mean specifically vendoring.

 

What I mean by "Printing money" is making money out of no where. Where as selling things on the GTN, the money comes from someone.

 

Post nerf, people won't be making money off of mission skills. Which is how it should be.

[Volki]

The economy won't have "no money." The amount of money in the economy just won't be increasing at the rate it was before the slicing fix.

 

Enter the "gold" farmers due to the "fix".

 

You are beating a dead horse and refuse to acknowledge it, it seems. Have you tried slicing before?

 

You have to remember that this is a game that most people play for fun. Having little money ingame means delaying skill/gear purchases and so forth. That's not fun.

[knightnvy]

No, I mean specifically vendoring.

 

What I mean by "Printing money" is making money out of no where. Where as selling things on the GTN, the money comes from someone.

 

Post nerf, people won't be making money off of mission skills. Which is how it should be.

 

Disagree strongly

[decadosleepless]

Well, one thing is important...credits = money. And money ARE printed in real life.

 

Anti-slicers are trying to make work modern economy...with barter-style trade systems.

 

In real life - you make money by making product. You boss pays you for your work... and he sells product to other "product maker" who got his printed money from his own boss. This makes economy running. Printed cost, stable inflation...printed money.

 

Now, you are in SWTOR going into barter trading system. Amount of credits = printed money will be very, VERY diminished. Because in SW TOR you are making product, but you are not paid for it. (!!!) You must sell your product. But there are other product makers who need money too.

 

In real life, maker 1 would change his Mod 1 for maker 2´s barrell 2. Not in SWTOR.

 

Here, you have limited amount of money printers - mobs, repetable missions. But, you have also a lot of additional expenses - skills, repairs and mission costs. In final, amount of printed money = credits, probably wouldnt be enough for spending on your products. In this state of game it isnt. Prices of expenses aside of AH are too high.

 

And because your printers were disabled by too harsh nerf (understand me, slicing should be nerfed...but not executed) and becuase you cant change product for product... AH is going to be stucked in strong paying inability from many players. Because everyone wont be running mobs again and again and again...

[Pansophist]

No, I mean specifically vendoring.

 

What I mean by "Printing money" is making money out of no where. Where as selling things on the GTN, the money comes from someone.

 

Post nerf, people won't be making money off of mission skills. Which is how it should be.

 

With Treasure hunting, you can oftentimes come out on top after vendoring. To answer your question. Sorry, I had to get one of my guildies to test it a couple times to be sure.

 

It is not near as dramatic as slicing was, but it is still a profit. And this is purely vendoring, let alone selling items on the GTN (which apparently is very difficult to do post-nerf, so I am discounting that for the time being).