Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Syas]

you are applying real world economics to game economics in GAME economics money simply disappears to money sinks.... so the economy can string past usable limits.

 

Assuming that the average income does not make those money sinks trivial, which pre-nerf Slicing did, hence the adjustment...

[VioletZero]

Enter the "gold" farmers due to the "fix".

 

You are beating a dead horse and refuse to acknowledge it, it seems. Have you tried slicing before?

 

You have to remember that this is a game that most people play for fun. Having little money ingame means delaying skill/gear purchases and so forth. That's not fun.

 

Is this really the best argument you guys have? It creates gold farmers?

 

Honestly, that is weak. Especially considering how easy it is to ignore them.

[Branstorm]

Seems to me that this is just like the economy IRL atm <.<

[Vibal_Magus]

No, I mean specifically vendoring.

 

What I mean by "Printing money" is making money out of no where. Where as selling things on the GTN, the money comes from someone.

 

Post nerf, people won't be making money off of mission skills. Which is how it should be.

 

And you do not make money off of the other gathering mission by vendoring the materials harvested. If you vendor them, the system removes more money than it generates, inflation just went down.

[knightnvy]

Assuming that the average income does not make those money sinks trivial, which pre-nerf Slicing did, hence the adjustment...

 

It really didnt

[SpaghettiMonster]

No, I mean specifically vendoring.

 

What I mean by "Printing money" is making money out of no where. Where as selling things on the GTN, the money comes from someone.

 

Post nerf, people won't be making money off of mission skills. Which is how it should be.

 

Getting things from missions that sell on the GTN is not much different than getting credits from longer missions with higher risk from pre-nerf slicing. Sure it took slightly less effort, but other skills had better potential for return. It's not just "printing money". Unless all crew missions are "printing items".

[Obi_Ron]

Enter the "gold" farmers due to the "fix".

 

You are beating a dead horse and refuse to acknowledge it, it seems. Have you tried slicing before?

 

You have to remember that this is a game that most people play for fun. Having little money ingame means delaying skill/gear purchases and so forth. That's not fun.

My point is that the gold farmers will be with us either way.

 

And I think both sides of the argument have had their turns at that horse.

 

Yes, I have a slicer. My income has gone down, but it's not the end of the world. I still make money at it, and there are still many other ways to make money in this game.

[Vibal_Magus]

With Treasure hunting, you can oftentimes come out on top after vendoring. To answer your question. Sorry, I had to get one of my guildies to test it a couple times to be sure.

 

It is not near as dramatic as slicing was, but it is still a profit. And this is purely vendoring, let alone selling items on the GTN (which apparently is very difficult to do post-nerf, so I am discounting that for the time being).

 

Hmmmn, curious to see if treasure hunting is the exception. A L4 Archaeology (12min, 690cr buy in) yielded 60cr worth of vendor material.

 

Also, ofentime? Or significant turn around?

[Oxylogged]

What everyone here fails to understand is that while it was nice that slicing was providing everyone money, me included, it was driving up inflation. In real terms this means that eventually we would reach hyper-inflation, were money/credits holds very little buying power, or in effect making the virtually worthless. This would be due to the over-abundance of money/credits due to everyone using slicing. Therefore, while slicing may have been driving the economy short term it was not a sustainable system as eventually your credits would be worth nothing.

 

This should have been obvious to people, it was quiet cleat that a massive nerf was about to happen to slicing.

[Pansophist]

Is this really the best argument you guys have? It creates gold farmers?

 

Honestly, that is weak. Especially considering how easy it is to ignore them.

 

No one is voicing their opinions against the gold farmers due to them spamming general/trade channels.

 

They are voicing their opinions against them because for most people, spending IRL money on in-game money just to keep up with the curve is not, well, financially sound.

 

People who do not mind gold farmers either

a) Don't mind purchasing gold and encourage the farmers.

b) Don't mind spending large amounts of time in-game to keep up.

 

Neither option is desirable for the casual player.

 

Hmmmn, curious to see if treasure hunting is the exception. A L4 Archaeology (12min, 690cr buy in) yielded 60cr worth of vendor material.

 

Also, ofentime? Or significant turn around?

 

It was not significant gains. But it is still 'printing money' as these people keep attempting unsuccessfully to preach against.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Pansophist

[VioletZero]

Getting things from missions that sell on the GTN is not much different than getting credits from longer missions with higher risk from pre-nerf slicing. Sure it took slightly less effort, but other skills had better potential for return. It's not just "printing money". Unless all crew missions are "printing items".

 

Actually, there's a HUGE difference between getting goods from mission skills and getting money.

 

And now, since people can't just print money anymore, nobody's mission skills are going to be profitable. And that's how it should be.

 

Profits should come from gathering from nodes for ANY crew skill.

[pryt]

Does vendoring items you get from missions yield more than what you paid?

 

No, but when I look at 'Thermoplast Flux' for example. This stuff can be bought for 400cr/unit from the NPC, or it can be gathered through a mission in Scavenging, which yields ~40 of it. Now do the math and multiply 400 with 40. Got it? Just bad if you did not choose Scavenging but Slicing and you need to buy the material for crafting in the GTN or NPC. There was a reason that Slicing yielded that much money, but even the developers seem to have forgotten the reason. Though it's clearly visible.

 

So Slicing had to be adjusted, but other stuff still 'saves' a lot of money by doing the missions. It's a difference if I pay 16,000 credits for 40 materials to continue crafting or pay ~2k on a rich yield mission and get it for a minimum of the price.

 

You know how much fun it is to get the purple materials off missions in Underworld Trading or Investigation or whatever without the Missions Slicing provided? How wonderful cheap they were on the GTN and how the WHOLE community had a profit? Someone seems to see only 'free credits' and that's all ... time is money, Sliced missions save time and so money ... but why do I write that ... go cry more. Some simply don't see the greater profit for the community, just the small thing that somone made more money than themselves and so they went into nerdragemode and yelled: nerf nerf! And BioWare listened and nerfed.

 

 

And I need to add it again: repairing epic items after you've died a few times = you will cry, believe me!

Edited December 29, 2011 by pryt

[VioletZero]

No one is voicing their opinions against the gold farmers due to them spamming general/trade channels.

 

They are voicing their opinions against them because for most people, spending IRL money on in-game money just to keep up with the curve is not, well, financially sound.

 

People who do not mind gold farmers either

a) Don't mind purchasing gold and encourage the farmers.

b) Don't mind spending large amounts of time in-game to keep up.

 

Neither option is desirable for the casual player.

 

I don't actually spend large amounts of time "keeping up."

 

Maybe you should consider not getting everything right away.

[Zakkana]

Seems to me that this is just like the economy IRL atm <.<

 

There is no such thing as a money sink in the real world. What functions as one is money being put into savings/investments but it never disappears. When you repair your gear, fly somewhere, buy something from a vendor and so forth, that money disappears forever.

[Pansophist]

I don't actually spend large amounts of time "keeping up."

 

Maybe you should consider not getting everything right away.

 

Hit level 50. Then come back.

 

Edit: I do not mean this as a slight or a flame. I only mean it because, at level 50, keeping up is a huge part of the game when your repair bill costs 50k+ after 5 deaths.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Pansophist

[ryancwn]

Actually, there's a HUGE difference between getting goods from mission skills and getting money.

 

And now, since people can't just print money anymore, nobody's mission skills are going to be profitable. And that's how it should be.

 

Profits should come from gathering from nodes for ANY crew skill.

 

The problem with that is you get tons of money from selling mats (not those mats that are easy to get but those mats that are rare and hard to get and use by high lv crafter) while slicing is still getting net lost. The profit from other crew skill is uncapped while slicing is capped.

[Alegebra]

Everyone keeps dancing around the main issues with flames and whatnot. But here it is all layed out:

 

1) The slicing nerf was NEEDED. No one really disputes this.

2) The nerf was too much

3) The nerf was done, from all appearances, based on forum noise

4) They focused on this instead of addressing issues like UI problems, Guild/Party Chat breaking, memory leaks and a whole other host of problems that would be more of a concern than slicing itself.

5) The nerf is being judged at a time where the player base and server economies are new.

 

Did I miss any others?

 

 

I'm terrified that the slicing nerf represents the way Bioware is going to handle issues in the future. From all appearances it looks like there was plenty of warning in Beta about slicing and no action was taken. Most agree that the nerf was due, but I think most are surprised as to the extent of it and the fact that there are still flaws in slicing.

 

I hope Bioware sees that such a dramatic change has a strong impact on the player base. This could have been avoided pre-launch and could have been handled much better.

 

And in internet-time it is taking them forever to comment on it...

[Volki]

You don't have a need for them now. Gold farmers are relative. A non-inflated market normalizes just as well as an inflated market. The difference is a non-inflated market provides multiple avenues for reasonable wealth growth, where an inflated one really only provides a few.

 

Whether you have 100 credits and want something that is 1000 or you have 100000 and want something that is 1000000; Gold Farmers are Gold Farmers. The difference is 1000 credits is easier to get through static means than 1000000.

 

You dare to doubt my claim that I need gold farmers now

 

While your understanding of economics does you well in the real world, this is a game and I was able to afford buying mats, gear and skills before (not all mats I wanted, but enough). I'm now much, much more careful with my credits and that makes for a dull game for me. I have to delay having fun. Others may like delaying fun, I don't know

 

The question would be: How many people playing the game actually like the nerf? Let Bioware send an email to every player.

[zaroleq]

Bioware...say something...please!!

[SpaghettiMonster]

Actually, there's a HUGE difference between getting goods from mission skills and getting money.

 

And now, since people can't just print money anymore, nobody's mission skills are going to be profitable. And that's how it should be.

 

Profits should come from gathering from nodes for ANY crew skill.

 

Why should it be this way exactly? Because that's what you want? So basically this comes down to everyone should play how you want them to play? If this was the original intention slicing would never have been created in the first place, unless BW is incompetent.

[Repefe]

Actually, there's a HUGE difference between getting goods from mission skills and getting money.

 

And now, since people can't just print money anymore, nobody's mission skills are going to be profitable. And that's how it should be.

 

Profits should come from gathering from nodes for ANY crew skill.

 

How fun is that ... running around like mindless droid collecting nodes ^^ that's MMO gameplay of the future.

[Branstorm]

There is no such thing as a money sink in the real world. What functions as one is money being put into savings/investments but it never disappears. When you repair your gear, fly somewhere, buy something from a vendor and so forth, that money disappears forever.

 

Oh. I just meant that everyone is fighting over what we should do and not getting anything done

[Obi_Ron]

How fun is that ... running around like mindless droid collecting nodes ^^ that's MMO gameplay of the future.

Doesn't this pretty well describe most MMOs, including the-MMO-that-shall-not-be-named?

[Zakkana]

Why should it be this way exactly? Because that's what you want? So basically this comes down to everyone should play how you want them to play? If this was the original intention slicing would never have been created in the first place, unless BW is incompetent.

 

Just like World of Warcraft eh? complete with whines "Taurens steal herb nodes! People with 310% flying take all the nodes, give it to me for free!" and so forth?

[supersonicks]

Why should it be this way exactly? Because that's what you want? So basically this comes down to everyone should play how you want them to play? If this was the original intention slicing would never have been created in the first place, unless BW is incompetent.

 

Are you saying he's incompetent as well? hah! Anyway, IMO they should tune slicing back up a bit or provide a definition of the skill and create a necessity for it (>craft crits), else drop and take another skill.

Edited December 29, 2011 by supersonicks