What did you do to the Tier 4 Command Crate RNG??

[Exly]

Let's not confuse NEEDing something with WANTing something.

 

Sometimes you need things if you are going to get what you want. In this game, if you have 236, 242, or and gear less than 248, and you are doing the best that you can, you need better gear if you want to do better.

 

Sure, some people are bad, and they might be able to improve by getting instruction, practicing more, and so on, but even if they don't do that, they will do better with better gear.

 

I know that NiM raiders like to have a monopoly on the best gear in the game, but I am not a NiM raider. I do enjoy HM raiding, but my guild is small, and it is not stacked with the best players in the game so my 8,200 dps on the Stryak fight (pre nerf) is something that I need to do if I want to clear the content.

 

The thing is that I am not the best player in the game, and I need really good gear to do as well as I do. Yes I need that gear because I want to clear the content, but that does not mean that my need is not real, or that I am confused by the difference between what I need and what I want.

[Khiriath]

Let's not confuse NEEDing something with WANTing something.

 

Good point. But then let us look at the needs.

 

Here are the max DPS output(assuming you don't win the RNG lottery with crit but what could be on average expected) of all classes post 5.2. Note it hasn't been adjusted down yet for the various nerfs:

https://torcommunity.com/guides/miscellaneous/class-rankings

 

Here some helpful people have done the math to figure out the DPS checks for every NiM boss:

http://yourcompanion.clanwebsite.com/372356/topic/50-nightmare-checks-jpq

 

Note that say NiM Styrak requires over 9k sustained DPS. That is with the various mechanics that reduce your DPS like the Kell Dragon spin. Even before the nerfs there were several classes that could only get over 9k DPS in full 248 gear and with a perfect rotation devoid of human error on a dummy without limiting mechanics.

 

For those classes to be able to clear content they will realistically need full 248 gear and a very expensive consumable known as Crystal of Nightmare Fury.

 

So yes there is actual and real need. For those of us who enjoy progression raiding and attempting harder endgame content with our friends this gear grind to be able to realistically play portions of the game is frustrating in the extreme.

 

I would like to point out that the recommended gear for NiM is 236, but let's be honest most classes can't put out the necessary DPS in 236.

 

I get that people playing PvP don't want to die to fast as that takes away enjoyment from the game. However, people playing PvE want to be able to clear PvE content on their favorite class. Why does one have to suffer for the other? Why are classes being nerfed out of NiM viability for the sake of PvP? Why do PvE bosses have some ridiculously high DPS checks that simply aren't achievable by many classes, and very few classes in the recommended gear?

[Nothing_Shines]

Because BW have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Half of them don't even play the game and those that do only PVP. Always robbing Peter to pay Paul. Always nerfing from orbit and then leaving classes destroyed for 6 months. Introduce a horrible RNG gearing system everyone said would be a nightmare and then making a Frankenstein's monster of it as they slowly try and backtrack to where we were in 4.0, but constantly messing up and angering one group or another.

 

I have zero faith in BW's ability to do anything like balance classes or the rate of gear acquisition. Zero. I've stopped running all MM content on all but one toon and largely ignore CXP. Complete waste of time getting zero rewards for playing the content I enjoy. Refuse to PVP solely because I know BW wants me to.

 

You don't get to tell me what to play, BW, or what I like.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Nothing_Shines

[Kaveat]

First, we have made no adjustments to the drop rate of items from Command Crates since we introduced Tier 4

 

Considering the drop rates on T4 introduction / implementation vs a very short time later, and since, I take this statement with a vary large grain of salt. The evidence to the contrary being that there was a significant reduction in 248 drop rates within 2 weeks of T4 being implemented, and still exists to this day. Wither this change was intentional or an "unintended consequence" is heavily debated, but given the overall track record, I am sure you can guess where the general population is laying their bets.

 

If you see that there seems to be a change in what you are experiencing at some point, throw that in bug reports and we can look into it.

 

We have been, and until now, the complaints have been ignored. Given the lack of response, many took this as admission by silence that it was stealth changed and yet another ******* to the players.

 

Second, it is definitely our intent that 248 Legendary items are pretty uncommon from Command Crates but keep in mind that you can consistently get them from other sources. You can upgrade into one from using Unassembled Components or get them as drops from Master Mode final bosses and Veteran Gods From the Machine. This happened as part of our shift to make Galactic Command more supplementary to your gearing.

 

"Uncommon" is laughably vague at this point, especially as those that do not PvP STILL have no recourse to viable upgrade paths, and the ones that do drop are mostly repeats of gear already obtained. Way to thin the PvE population even further with such lackluster attention to the PvE players.

 

And as for the "gearing" from master mode OP's, that is laughable since you get "sniper pants" in a group with zero snipers more often than not. Open thine eyes and wake up to the fact that NO ONE does MM for gear.

 

Not to mention the "revamped" loot tables were a poor attempt to push content, which has failed in its apparent goal. It only succeeded in annoying the general population.

 

However, as with all things, please keep feedback coming! We are always open to making further changes where and if they are needed.

 

Other MMO's do not have nearly this much issue or misattention given to what should be a very straight forward process to gearing. How about we stop trying to reinvent and further complicate the wheel, and go back to some more conventional gearing methods and processes. Save the "easy button gearing" for a month or three before 6.0 releases, then everyone can enjoy their welfare epic's.

[merovejec]

You've succeeded in making them VERY rare Eric...that doesn't make it a good policy though. And until UC's are doubled from WZ's and prices cut in half, and UC's become available from sources other than just PvP, it's really not at all realistic to gear that way. RNG is still the #1 issue with gearing right now, and you've really got to address that elephant going forward.

 

My sentinel and Merc got 5 248s each from crates, so im fine with the drops. I geared the rest with just 242s upgraded to 248s.

[scardera]

the game right now is a total mess operations should drop ''unnasembled'' so people who dont want to pvp ''since pvp in this game is completely broken'' can upgrade 242 gears your system make no sense and your game is not fun. The new contend is not fun Iokath is a failure the new boss are boring and im already playing other games while my sub lapse.

[xRohanx]

Let's not confuse NEEDing something with WANTing something.

Thank you for trying to tell me what I really need, but I know better.

.

I would like to point out that the recommended gear for NiM is 236, but let's be honest most classes can't put out the necessary DPS in 236.

 

I get that people playing PvP don't want to die to fast as that takes away enjoyment from the game. However, people playing PvE want to be able to clear PvE content on their favorite class. Why does one have to suffer for the other? Why are classes being nerfed out of NiM viability for the sake of PvP? Why do PvE bosses have some ridiculously high DPS checks that simply aren't achievable by many classes, and very few classes in the recommended gear?

This.

[SentinelThain]

The whole CXP thing is a mess.RNG should NEVER be included in gearing.As a beta/founder who quit for a long time I found the old system of coms to be better.The time you put in was actually rewarded with what you needed.

Atm time put in is no guarantee of reward,it's down to rng.I'm lucky this week because I'm off,so far I've opened 100 crates and got 2 248's.The system is crap.A massive timesink and NOBODY I know likes it.

I'm mainly a pve guy who dabbles in pvp,but being forced to pvp is the wrong way to go about things,instead of rng from crates how about command tokens?Like the old system.

Anything is better than the current lottery we have now.Oh and I've said it before,if in the next road map you are planning on more GC tiers,I'm gone and this time for good.I've had enough of GC crap,I really have.

[Glzmo]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to address some of the questions / concerns here in the thread. First, we have made no adjustments to the drop rate of items from Command Crates since we introduced Tier 4 and rebalanced the drops from Tier 1-3. If you see that there seems to be a change in what you are experiencing at some point, throw that in bug reports and we can look into it.

 

Second, it is definitely our intent that 248 Legendary items are pretty uncommon from Command Crates but keep in mind that you can consistently get them from other sources. You can upgrade into one from using Unassembled Components or get them as drops from Master Mode final bosses and Veteran Gods From the Machine. This happened as part of our shift to make Galactic Command more supplementary to your gearing.

 

However, as with all things, please keep feedback coming! We are always open to making further changes where and if they are needed.

 

-eric

I certainly have to say that once you get into Tier 4, the crates seem to be way less rewarding than it already is (crates with random drops should have never been added, you should get tokens and be able to buy whatever you want and need with them) and it's even less motivating to continue the grind and remain subscribed.

It's also incredibly frustrating that it seems some pieces have a much higher chance to drop than others. The chance should be the same. I was lucky to have gotten a 248 lightsaber in my first Tier 4 crate, but after that most crates didn't contain any 248 pieces, although I got 4 248 belts and 3 248 bracers and not anything else. These now clutter my cargo hold (which is expanded to the maximum and still has way too little room) in case you guys introduce some Tier 5 gear and we'll have to trade it up. There should at least be an option to trade them in for other pieces that you actually need/want for other pieces of the same rating.

In addition, it's frustrating that you can only trade up 242 gear to 248, but once you reach Tier 4 you don't get 242s in crates anymore. You should be able to trade up 246 gear pieces to 248 with tokens as well.

 

Also, what about the crafting schematics? I haven't had a single 246 hilt, barrel or Armoring schematic drop yet in Tier 4 crates (including PVP daily/weekly crates), but I had a bunch of doubles drop from all kind of other things I don't really want. What's up with that? By the way, it would be really nice if we could purchase all the schamatics from the tiers (including previous ones) for command tokens once we reach Tier 4.

 

Then again, that whole RNG system just needs to be dropped again. It simply isn't fun. Go back to tokens/currency with which you can buy anything you want/need.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Glzmo

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Sometimes you need things if you are going to get what you want. In this game, if you have 236, 242, or and gear less than 248, and you are doing the best that you can, you need better gear if you want to do better.

 

Sure, some people are bad, and they might be able to improve by getting instruction, practicing more, and so on, but even if they don't do that, they will do better with better gear.

 

I know that NiM raiders like to have a monopoly on the best gear in the game, but I am not a NiM raider. I do enjoy HM raiding, but my guild is small, and it is not stacked with the best players in the game so my 8,200 dps on the Stryak fight (pre nerf) is something that I need to do if I want to clear the content.

 

The thing is that I am not the best player in the game, and I need really good gear to do as well as I do. Yes I need that gear because I want to clear the content, but that does not mean that my need is not real, or that I am confused by the difference between what I need and what I want.

 

You give an example of NEEDing gear to get do better, my point was some people use the word NEED because they actually want it (for whatever reason, because it's there?) but have no intention of even attempting content where they would actually need it.

 

Some players want BiS just because it's BiS and they'll continue doing the same content they do without the BiS which is fine, my point is they just need to not confuse need with want.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

-snip-

 

I'm not saying there is not a need, of course there is. However in regards to the post I quoted I was getting the impression of more of a wanting gear than needing it (i.e. my goal is to get a full BiS set, that's not needing BiS, that's wanting BiS).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Because BW have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Half of them don't even play the game and those that do only PVP. Always robbing Peter to pay Paul. Always nerfing from orbit and then leaving classes destroyed for 6 months. Introduce a horrible RNG hearing system everyone said would be a nightmare and then making a Frankenstein's monster of it as they slowly try and backtrack to where we were in 4.0, but constantly messing up and angering one group or another.

 

I have zero faith in BW's ability to do anything like balance classes or the rate of gear acquisition. Zero. I've stopped running all MM content on all but one toon and largely ignore CXP. Complete waste of time getting zero rewards for playing the content I enjoy. Refuse to PVP solely because I know BW wants me to.

 

You don't get to tell me what to play, BW, or what I like.

 

Well I'll assume you are still having fun and getting your money worth of gameplay either way right? Otherwise ... well I think it's obvious what I would ask next.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The whole CXP thing is a mess.RNG should NEVER be included in gearing.As a beta/founder who quit for a long time I found the old system of coms to be better.The time you put in was actually rewarded with what you needed.

Atm time put in is no guarantee of reward,it's down to rng.I'm lucky this week because I'm off,so far I've opened 100 crates and got 2 248's.The system is crap.A massive timesink and NOBODY I know likes it.

I'm mainly a pve guy who dabbles in pvp,but being forced to pvp is the wrong way to go about things,instead of rng from crates how about command tokens?Like the old system.

Anything is better than the current lottery we have now.Oh and I've said it before,if in the next road map you are planning on more GC tiers,I'm gone and this time for good.I've had enough of GC crap,I really have.

 

I'm with you, old system was far superior. I personally would prefer that season where you can only get BiS PVE gear from PVE content as opposed to this nonsense system of RNG just so we can allow everyone a chance at BiS.

 

Heck I'd be happy with the old system AND GC so we can still buy the comm gear we like from day 1 and if/when we get GC drops well that's just a bonus.

[Extinctionzone]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to address some of the questions / concerns here in the thread. First, we have made no adjustments to the drop rate of items from Command Crates since we introduced Tier 4 and rebalanced the drops from Tier 1-3. If you see that there seems to be a change in what you are experiencing at some point, throw that in bug reports and we can look into it.

 

Second, it is definitely our intent that 248 Legendary items are pretty uncommon from Command Crates but keep in mind that you can consistently get them from other sources. You can upgrade into one from using Unassembled Components or get them as drops from Master Mode final bosses and Veteran Gods From the Machine. This happened as part of our shift to make Galactic Command more supplementary to your gearing.

 

However, as with all things, please keep feedback coming! We are always open to making further changes where and if they are needed.

 

-eric

 

its ok Eric! , your post is moot. I got dis....

 

"RNG is fun"

[ray-g-net]

Current T4 system rng can be acceptable (and as always can be better , but very wasteful. Personally most of time i play as tank so i'm focused on T4 tank gear, but at this point many times got same gear (5th times chest for example) which is waste of resources, Change it T4 gear to t4 unassebled then we can at least buy DPS gear which is not top priority for tanks but also wanted when tanks want play as dps. Now we can only destroy doubled drop for points or get mods

 

QUOTE: "Then again, that whole RNG system just needs to be dropped again. It simply isn't fun. Go back to tokens/currency with which you can buy anything you want/need."

 

YES! I AGREE! I want buy what i want i hate gambling, so best of all is old tokens system.

Edited July 21, 2017 by ray-g-net

[olagatonjedi]

The whole CXP thing is a mess.RNG should NEVER be included in gearing.As a beta/founder who quit for a long time I found the old system of coms to be better.The time you put in was actually rewarded with what you needed.

Atm time put in is no guarantee of reward,it's down to rng.I'm lucky this week because I'm off,so far I've opened 100 crates and got 2 248's.The system is crap.A massive timesink and NOBODY I know likes it.

I'm mainly a pve guy who dabbles in pvp,but being forced to pvp is the wrong way to go about things,instead of rng from crates how about command tokens?Like the old system.

Anything is better than the current lottery we have now.Oh and I've said it before,if in the next road map you are planning on more GC tiers,I'm gone and this time for good.I've had enough of GC crap,I really have.

You are completely mistaken in your assessment of the cxp system. In fact, you ARE rewarded for the time you put in completing quests and pvp and ops, primarily because you get cxp for doing anything. If ops are your thing, you get cxp. If heroics are your thing, you get cxp. If pvp is your thing, you get cxp. Hopefully you get the idea. On any crate, you have a chance to get end-game gear that, in prior iterations of swtor, you had to run NIM content to acquire. I honsstly believe the current loot system is the best one ive seen in any MMO, because it caters to ALL players, regardless of how they choose to spend their in-game time. Hard core raiders still have a better chance at getting the "shell" needed to eliminate the RNG from their loot equation, while ALSO still having the RNG in place to get a random piece for just completing the ops. Ive raided for many years, and remember, in the old system, walking away from ops without any gear. The system rewards everyone. As for time put in, the more time you put in, the more cxp crates you will obtain, thus incrrasing the chances of getting gear from the RNG. Keep in mind, anomalies do exist, but you also dont have overall data collections of everyone else in the game and their success rates.

 

The majority of the outcry from cxp is a combination of people unwilling to see the big picture, unwilling to accept change from the long-time loot system that was in place since the days of EQ, and possibly those unwilling to put their time in.

[SentinelThain]

You are completely mistaken in your assessment of the cxp system. In fact, you ARE rewarded for the time you put in completing quests and pvp and ops, primarily because you get cxp for doing anything. If ops are your thing, you get cxp. If heroics are your thing, you get cxp. If pvp is your thing, you get cxp. Hopefully you get the idea. On any crate, you have a chance to get end-game gear that, in prior iterations of swtor, you had to run NIM content to acquire. I honsstly believe the current loot system is the best one ive seen in any MMO, because it caters to ALL players, regardless of how they choose to spend their in-game time. Hard core raiders still have a better chance at getting the "shell" needed to eliminate the RNG from their loot equation, while ALSO still having the RNG in place to get a random piece for just completing the ops. Ive raided for many years, and remember, in the old system, walking away from ops without any gear. The system rewards everyone. As for time put in, the more time you put in, the more cxp crates you will obtain, thus incrrasing the chances of getting gear from the RNG. Keep in mind, anomalies do exist, but you also dont have overall data collections of everyone else in the game and their success rates.

 

The majority of the outcry from cxp is a combination of people unwilling to see the big picture, unwilling to accept change from the long-time loot system that was in place since the days of EQ, and possibly those unwilling to put their time in.

I'm sorry but totally disagree with you.Commendations was a much better way to gear up than now.Once you get to t4 it just plain sucks arse.Doing all content and still getting little reward for hours upon hours of effort (unless you think getting blue implants or relics is reward) is crap.The drop rates are abysmal.Over the last 3 days I've opened 112 crates and heres what REWARD I got 72 useless relics/implants,38 useless gear drops and 2 pieces of 248.

I don't see how anybody can defend this.It's just plain bad.

[ivanhedgehog]

This, to be honest. Purple 246s are Good Enough for crate gear. It'd be even more true if each NiM EC->DP and HM Rav->GotM boss dropped 248s and there were more ways to get UCs. Wouldn't bother me if 248s didn't even drop in crates, really - anyone relying solely on crates for gear can get by in meager 246s.

 

Mighty nice of you to decide what is "good enough" for other players. Gearing is the only content they gave us with 5.0. Cutting out a tier give many people less incentive to subscribe, which is exactly what the devs seem to be aiming for. People will find the silliest things to try to be elitist over.

[xRohanx]

I'm not saying there is not a need, of course there is. However in regards to the post I quoted I was getting the impression of more of a wanting gear than needing it (i.e. my goal is to get a full BiS set, that's not needing BiS, that's wanting BiS).

You have a wrong opinion. For example. My sister plays as Mara. Uprisings and Flashpoints was difficult for her at first time, because she did not have the proper gear. We spent several months to change it from 228 to 236 and we are planning to start veteran and master now. But this requires a better equipment and the moment is pushed back with every unsuccessful opening of the crate. Step by step we going forward and we have definite game goal. It is very unpleasant after that, to hear then people say, that someone does not need something. We play for fun, but we want to be more effective and better in the group. Is it bad? Or… we must to go through the face control of the raiders, who will approve our better gear? It's just ridiculous. It's a game. Let people do the best if they make deep efforts. Do not "count money in someone else's pocket".

[TUXs]

You have a wrong opinion. For example. My sister plays as Mara. Uprisings and Flashpoints was difficult for her at first time, because she did not have the proper gear. We spent several months to change it from 228 to 236 and we are planning to start veteran and master now. But this requires a better equipment and the moment is pushed back with every unsuccessful opening of the crate. Step by step we going forward and we have definite game goal. It is very unpleasant after that, to hear then people say, that someone does not need something. We play for fun, but we want to be more effective and better in the group. Is it bad? Or… we must to go through the face control of the raiders, who will approve our better gear? It's just ridiculous. It's a game. Let people do the best if they make deep efforts. Do not "count money in someone else's pocket".

You're both right tbh...he's right in that gear isn't "everything", good players will still be good, even with crap gear on...but there are very few of those type of players. But you're also right - better gear helps even those players out...better gear improves it for everyone.

[VirtualMorrigan]

However, as with all things, please keep feedback coming! We are always open to making further changes where and if they are needed.

 

I probably shouldn't be, but given the track record on the last changes through patches, I am amazed that you can say that with a straight face.

[Sargrith]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to address some of the questions / concerns here in the thread. First, we have made no adjustments to the drop rate of items from Command Crates since we introduced Tier 4 and rebalanced the drops from Tier 1-3. If you see that there seems to be a change in what you are experiencing at some point, throw that in bug reports and we can look into it.

 

Second, it is definitely our intent that 248 Legendary items are pretty uncommon from Command Crates but keep in mind that you can consistently get them from other sources. You can upgrade into one from using Unassembled Components or get them as drops from Master Mode final bosses and Veteran Gods From the Machine. This happened as part of our shift to make Galactic Command more supplementary to your gearing.

 

However, as with all things, please keep feedback coming! We are always open to making further changes where and if they are needed.

 

-eric

 

Best option going forward, get rid of galactic command in any way. I get that can't happen until the next expansion but seriously get rid of it then. Don't alter it, don't dress it up, get rid of it and any hint of the stink that it is.

[Sargrith]

 

The majority of the outcry from cxp is a combination of people unwilling to see the big picture, unwilling to accept change from the long-time loot system that was in place since the days of EQ, and possibly those unwilling to put their time in.

 

And from people who actually left and never came back. We don't have the player base we did a year ago because of CXP,RNG and this galactic command mess. It isn't very rewarding to get your third 246 belt, or worse 244 one....tnat's just super annoying. End this blight as soon as possible. Please with the next major expansion (6.0) do not carry forth anything to do with CXP,RNG or GC.

[Screaming_Ziva]

Personally, I'm fine with the legendary drop rate at Tier 4 now that gear has been put back into operations.

 

However, some love needs to be shown to PvP players. It is still way too slow to gear in PvP. You can play a 20 minute match and only get a whopping 3 UCs from that. When it costs 240+ UCs to upgrade a piece of gear to tier 4, this takes way too long.

[Sargrith]

Personally, I'm fine with the legendary drop rate at Tier 4 now that gear has been put back into operations.

 

However, some love needs to be shown to PvP players. It is still way too slow to gear in PvP. You can play a 20 minute match and only get a whopping 3 UCs from that. When it costs 240+ UCs to upgrade a piece of gear to tier 4, this takes way too long.

 

Its a mixed bag. Yes it takes longer to gear up in PvP, but its also easier in a way as well. First its no cost and no risk you will get something from the attempt. Clearly not always the case in PvE and even if you succeed in PvE you may get nothing because you don't win the /roll. Second you can gear up as an ok PvPer and will get the best gear eventually. You can't do that as an ok PvEer because unless your running NiM (HM Machine Gods) you are limited to the gear level you can get there.

 

Now to my mind you actually do best mixing a little of this and a little of that. But who knows.