Discussion Topic: Bolster Changes in PvP

[Evolixe]

Thats the good point, how many of "You" are there? There are many threads about new maps, new PVP forms etc, they added Odessen and "you" hated it so I guess you guys just dont know what you want!

 

A lot more than the contrary, I'd say. And I say that with a decade of MMO PvP experience.

People that play PvP for the PvP, don't care about gear. They just need it to do what they do. But if it wouldn't be there at all that would be fine too. As a matter of fact.. Guild Wars 2 works exactly that way. It doesn't have gear for instanced PvP. Everyone has equal stats and that game is still being played by masses.

 

You won't suddenly see an exodus of players just because there is no gear progression.

That's just an assumption of people that don't really PvP much and more do it as an off-thing.

 

Most of those people are more into PvE where gear progression is a core part of the way the game unfolds for you and your group.

 

This statement is invalid, its not just about the gear but also about the team etc, in PVP you have objectives too, just like in GSF, if you have a low tier ship u dont jump into a group of 4 enemies to get globalled, you support etc. Also, 246 is craftable, you can get full 246 in a few minutes, just grind those credits a little!!

 

Then there is still disparity. We don't need that. I don't do Dailies I don't do weeklies.., I don't do Flashpoints, I don't do anything Group Finder and I don't care about achievements. All I want.. is to play the game.

 

I don't set any goals I just want to play. Goals are for people that need an excuse.

But if you need an excuse to PvP then you don't want to be there in the first place anyway

Edited June 29, 2017 by Evolixe

[micnevv]

This statement is invalid, its not just about the gear but also about the team etc, in PVP you have objectives too, just like in GSF, if you have a low tier ship u dont jump into a group of 4 enemies to get globalled, you support etc. Also, 246 is craftable, you can get full 246 in a few minutes, just grind those credits a little!!

 

 

Ok now that’s just being silly. How is it invalid?

 

Teamwork isn’t going to help you Out-dps/heal teamfights. You either have the numbers or you don’t. No amount of teamwork will help you win against an equally skilled team with superior gear.

 

If that’s not enough for you then take defending as an example. Do you really feel comfortable leaving the 230 guy defending? Of course not, hes gonna get 1-shot by an assassin and no one will get there in time to help.

[BlevatToshnit]

Overgear now means more than ever before. Difference between T1 and T4 (both bolstered) is insane - more than 700 bonus damage, it's just ridiculous comparing to old pvp gear where difference between T1 and T2 was adout 40 bonus damage. No matter how skilled you are, you just can't overcome this odds.

Of course i will vote for a maximum bolster - 242, but it wont be enough.

Edited June 29, 2017 by BlevatToshnit

[TUXs]

Keeping gear as it is HURTS PvP participation. If you enjoy PvPing in this game, you need to think about the average player and what it would take to get them involved in PvP. Gear gaps do nothing but HURT PvP.

[Evolixe]

then please Bioware, gives us bolster to Master mode operations!!! Why not???

 

Because...

 

PvE where gear progression is a core part of the way the game unfolds for you and your group.

 

 

But to be honest, I think pretty much everyones main Character in my guild has BiS gear by now and we still go into those Master Mode Operations as often as we did when nobody had any 248's.

I don't know my fellow guildies motives, but I have 7 alts that I can gear.

And if not for any gear then I just like to do something that at least attempts to make me think about what I do.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Evolixe

[Romeugues]

Oh, i also forgot to mention another problem with gear disparity... since imps dominating almost all servers (except teh and t3m4) imps are winning much more, therefore - getting best gear FASTER. I noticed that Because of this imps dominance became even more serious than before. For example on tre reps mananged to win at least 3-3 fights per day, however now because of bolster being low, and imperial domination still high reps are now win hardly 1-2 games per day lol, due to great gear disparity between imps and reps. So gear disparity and low bolster also makes it harder for reps to fight 246/248 geared imps, and reps weee already bad as hell but now their chances are even lower LOL

I don't think Bioware can make pub players better, it's a shame there's a dramatic faction imbalance in PVP but pubs need to step up their game if they want that to change and by step up their game I don't mean running premades in regs with voice chat, but I don't think that will ever happen because the Empire is seen as being cooler or whatever.

 

As for bolster changes, I think it's fine as it it, I think perhaps the majority of the PVP player base would be very happy to see PVP gearing go back to how it was before, wz comms and pvp gear, it was extremely easy to gear up alts that way and there's pretty much nothing you can with galactic command to make that easier, the whole system is alt unfriendly.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Romeugues

[Ibokagain]

Bolster to 240 would be fine as others had mentioned and fact you can buy/make 246 gear. I agree with many that the cost for 242 / 248 gear UC should be lowered. I also think it would be a great idea to not have any bolster in ranked warzones/arenas.

[Elssha]

I would say 240 - gear should matter at least a little, but new players and fresh 70s should be able to try it without feeling like they walked into a school of piranhas.

 

Would it be possible to scale the bolster with valor? Maybe make 1-20 have 248 bolster, then 20+ 240? That would give them a padding the first few games while they learn the maps, etc or get used to toons/gain left....

 

I'd also suggest an added requirement for ranked; toon at 25 (or lower that to 20, aka when bolster drops) BUT you also have to have a valor 50+ in your legacy.

[omaan]

I don't think Bioware can make pub players better, it's a shame there's a dramatic faction imbalance in PVP but pubs need to step up their game if they want that to change and by step up their game I don't mean running premades in regs with voice chat, but I don't think that will ever happen because the Empire is seen as being cooler or whatever.

 

As for bolster changes, I think it's fine as it it, I think perhaps the majority of the PVP player base would be very happy to see PVP gearing go back to how it was before, wz comms and pvp gear, it was extremely easy to gear up alts that way and there's pretty much nothing you can with galactic command to make that easier, the whole system is alt unfriendly.

 

Anyway with 242 bolster reps which are mainly in 230-240 gear have more chances to win 248 imps than of bolster would be 238 don't you think? Because with 238 bolster reps with 230-240 gear have even less chances... much less.

[royren]

Bolster should remain as is. Gear disparity exists on occassion till you overcome it but it doesn't hamper you very much. You are playing on a team (coming from a person who ques solo 99% of the time so all I wind up with is PUG) in PvP. Not all opponents will be better geared. The talk is that it takes long to gear up. That's subjective so I won't counter however, if you say that you'll be facing opponents that are stronger simply because they have better gear then how can it be so since it takes just as long for them; alts considered - even longer.

 

Another thing the gearing does is force choices to have some weight. In the end you will have skill be the determining factor. Are you playing objectives? Do you simply wish to be able to solo/duel? Ranked is its own beast due to 4v4 and ability to simply concentrate on killing one player or overpower an imbalanced team. Yes, sometimes you get an even match where skill and dare I say a measure of luck is a factor but not often unfortunately. As for gear, one can do ranked when they are ready and geared same as high end PvE. Don't see a problem here.

 

I choose option 1.

 

Agree completely, PLEASE KEEP BOLSTER AS IT IS, or even lower say 232

 

This is MMORPG gear matters and you grind hard for it now so it should matter more, you will feel rewarded when you playing pvp with with full 248 gear.

 

I also have lots of alts, I do HM ops and get 242 armor piece and use left over 248/246 mods from my main, I don't feel my alts are under-geared at all, if you feel like your alt is undergeared, then grind for it and get it better geard!

 

I understand all you saying pvp is more about skills not gears, but if so, WHY DONT GO PLAY LEAGUE OF LEGEND? OR STARCRAFT? no gears there all you need is your skills / apm, but in this game, GEAR MATTERS

 

and I agree with Xak, pvp is team work, not 1 on 1, so a bit under-geared is OK as long as you are good at playing it, if bolster is 250 for all, THEN THIS GAME IS NOT MMORPG ANYMORE

 

p.s one thing BW should try is make command stash legacy wide, so alts can take T4 earpiece / implants / relics from main (I have so many duplication of those on my main and feels bad when disintegrate them)

[Foambreaker]

Because...

 

 

 

 

But to be honest, I think pretty much everyones main Character in my guild has BiS gear by now and we still go into those Master Mode Operations as often as we did when nobody had any 248's.

I don't know my fellow guildies motives, but I have 7 alts that I can gear.

And if not for any gear then I just like to do something that at least attempts to make me think about what I do.

 

Just for sake of record, not trying to criticize, how many of those people in 248 in your guild got that gear exclusively through PvP and crates?

[Merlinspark]

I strongly dislike bolster. It does make sense to bolster someone up to tier 1 so that way they can enjoy flashpoints and OPs without having to farm up some gear first but if we keep bolstering up to 238 or 240 then why do we make it so hard for people to work to get that gear ? Why not just let everybody get tier 3 gear with command tokens and tier 2 as soon as they hit 70 ?? because that's essentially what your doing. The bolster system is ruining the CXP system and I wished it was nerfed. It keeps seeming like every time the bolster is raised or a new tier comes out a whole series of nerfs on different classes and builds comes out. It's almost like we're being punished at a later date for being rewarded now.

[TUXs]

Agree completely, PLEASE KEEP BOLSTER AS IT IS, or even lower say 232

If you want to kill this game, this is a great idea. Otherwise it's nonsensical.

[Lundorff]

So you want it to be like that you make a token 65 toon, level him fast with whatever to lvl 70 and then just que for ranked?? You put in empty MH and OH shells, buy some cheap gear just to fill in slots so that bolster will have something to bolster and thats it

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

My goal as a PVP-player is to improve upon myself while playing against others on an even footing - we could be naked for all I care. Self-improvement is the grind for us.

[Zemblanity]

IMO, more than the rating, I say Bolster should take Augments into account, otherwise a well-geared toon will have a significant advantage over a freshly-created toon.

[royren]

So making bolster = BiS is not even under consideration.

 

I should just close my accounts. You obviously have no concept of fair play.

 

Every little excuse makes it ok to give advantages.

 

LOL exactly, I have an idea, why don't BW get rid of the whole gearing system, no gears any more everybody is same stats, all we can change is our appearances (just like league of legends) we can do whatever we want without worrying about grindings and gears, WOULDN'T THAT BE GREAT?

[merovejec]

But to be honest, I think pretty much everyones main Character in my guild has BiS gear by now and we still go into those Master Mode Operations as often as we did when nobody had any 248's.

I don't know my fellow guildies motives, but I have 7 alts that I can gear.

And if not for any gear then I just like to do something that at least attempts to make me think about what I do.

 

Gearing is easy, I have 4 toons with full 248s and i already have tokens ready with components to gear 2 toons based on the class that will be buffed and i play 12 hours per week!

[Storm-Cutter]

I already know the answer, but the dev team should surely ask themselves why we're in this sorry mess in the first place.

[DenariusJay]

Could just go back to the 4 item rating disparity (204 entry level, 208 top level, in 4.0)

 

So putting bolster at 244 would keep players relevant in comparison to a fully geared 248. I think a full 246 character with augments should still be alittle stronger then a bolstered player since the money and time invested into that should offer some payout and incentive to keep gearing.

 

I don't think its a good idea to bolster to 250, cause then you negate gear progression which is a big deal in an MMO. MMO's of this scale should still have some sense of progression. But I think it's fine to bolster to the realm of Tier 3 and leave tier 4 something to work for.

Edited June 29, 2017 by DenariusJay

[merovejec]

Ok now that’s just being silly. How is it invalid?

 

Teamwork isn’t going to help you Out-dps/heal teamfights. You either have the numbers or you don’t. No amount of teamwork will help you win against an equally skilled team with superior gear.

 

If that’s not enough for you then take defending as an example. Do you really feel comfortable leaving the 230 guy defending? Of course not, hes gonna get 1-shot by an assassin and no one will get there in time to help.

 

A team has stuns, pushes etc u dont just stand there and let yourself get killed! U flashbang, push off edge, its not only about the numbers it just gets easier with the numbers thats all, just like in PVE

[royren]

If you want to kill this game, this is a great idea. Otherwise it's nonsensical.

 

nope I want to save this game, those bolsters should be requirements for entering ranked, like I mentioned in my post if everybody is same gear level then this defeats the whole purpose of MMORPG game, which I believe SWTOR still is.

[XakTsaroth]

Been following thread of course and there are lots of ideas based upon style of gameplay. Obviously this is to be expected. For clarification on my view - I only have a handful of alts, have not done all the stories, etc. I am not a person to PvE much beyond some dailies and an occasional FP or Uprising. I have obtained all of my gear through PvP and RNG crates. That said, I am nearly complete in 248 with min 246 on other slots. I play for 2 - 3 hrs at most in a day so consider myself casual. It doesn't feel like a big grind to me - just slow measured progression. Been playing this game since launch and gear has never been an obstacle in PvP. PvE is a different story but I am not an avid player of that content.

[micnevv]

A team has stuns, pushes etc u dont just stand there and let yourself get killed! U flashbang, push off edge, its not only about the numbers it just gets easier with the numbers thats all, just like in PVE

 

So now you're just going to ignore what I've said about the teams being equally skilled?

 

In your opinion having worse gear doesn't matter, even if you are on the same skill level? You don't think that they're gonna use stuns on you as well? And that they're pump out more DPS and Heals?

 

This just goes to show what kind of player you are. After all this I realize there is no point in having this discussion with you, you are completely clueless.

Edited June 29, 2017 by micnevv

[Seterade]

PvErs think pvpers can just buy 246 mods on the GTN?

 

The hardcore PvPers I have personally known for the last 2 years don't have millions.

 

As for this game being an MMO, so stop whining and grind like the rest of us? A few points.

 

1) it currently takes 20 days of 14 hours to gear 1 toon from 236-248. it takes about that long for a regular pve guildy raider to gear in full 242s 5 different toons. We all know you guys raid endlessly giving one another exactly what you need so all 8/16 of you can keep raiding.

 

2) currently because of point 1 PvErs rule PvP through gear alone. When you don't even PvP until you can just mow down new toons, you shouldn't get to be better, you should work from the bottom in PvP, like we have to.

 

Finally 3) I purposed 242 because in 3.x/4.x everyone who was anyone had 204 (4.x in this example) it cost 5k wz comms, was gotten in one day of wzs, an was 4 ratings below max. and then the 208 was like 16k wz comms, you workd for it. not only that, but while they might not win, a full geared raider could put the hurt on a 208 ranker.

 

if you applied this reasoning to 5.x an the removal of expertise, giving everyone the super easy 204 (242 rating) and then everyone worked their butt off for 208 (248 rating) both raiders and pvpers can benefit without giving PvErs the ability to steamroll a new pvp toon.

[Akushii]

Just for sake of record, not trying to criticize, how many of those people in 248 in your guild got that gear exclusively through PvP and crates?

 

Maybe unrelated, but I almost have full 248s (missing 3 pieces) and all my gear came through either crates (most of them) or through upgrading 242 pieces to 248 through components. Unless you are clearing the last boss on NiM mode, (or Tyth HM now), your only option for 248 is crates and PvP upgrades of 242.

 

As for others that are saying you can 'easily' craft or buy crafted 246s, I have worked it out where it costs roughly 70-75 mil to fully gear a toon with full crafted gear and augments (assuming you are using 230 set bonus alongside the 246 gear). Which is not a small feat, specially if you are looking to gear 5-8 toons and different specs.

 

As someone who has done PvP since SWTOR 1.0, I could care less about the gear grind of PvP. I have taken the time to grind out the gear in the past, but it didn't feel like an achievement and I certainly didn't feel like I was making any proper progression. In OPs, gear feels like progression, in PvP I'd rather see gear have no effect whatsoever. I do PvP for fun to fight someone on equal footing. When I fight someone and I know I've been beaten because of their skill, I respect it a LOT more than if I got beat by someone who just happens to have better gear. (And yes, if you have been playing the game as long as I have, you can tell the difference between skill and gear).

 

If our highest option is 242, so be it. I WOULD prefer it to go up to 250, so I don't have to worry about it and swap characters around and play whichever character I fancy that night, rather than choosing between the toons that have 242/248 gears.