Discussion Topic: Bolster Changes in PvP

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

For this week’s discussion topic, let’s talk about Bolster! This has been a hot-button item since the launch of 5.0 due to various changes which have been made. Here is a bit of a history on what we have done so far:

When we launched Eternal Throne Bolster increased everyone’s item rating up to 250 (which was 8 higher than the highest possible gear rating of 242 at the time). This meant that gear was irrelevant in PvP as Bolster made an equal playing field. However, it is our design intent that players in all gameplay have some form of gear progression and so in Game Update 5.1 we lowered the effect of Bolster in PvP to 232. To compensate for the launch of Tier 4 gear we increased Bolsters effect in PvP to item rating 238.

 

There have been numerous feedback threads on both sides of the fence on this topic, but it seems the larger consensus is that players would like to see a higher bolster rating in PvP to lower the overall gear gap. With that in mind we want to present 3 possible options and see what you think:

1. Bolster is equal to item rating 238. - This is how it works today, this effectively puts you slightly above Tier 2 gear.
   
2. Bolster is equal to item rating 240. – This would place Bolster equal to the start of Tier 3 gear. There would now be an 8 rating difference between Bolster and the highest tier of gear (248). For reference this is identical to the gap that existed for Bolster prior to 5.0.
   
3. Bolster is equal to item rating 242. – This would place Bolster at the top end of Tier 3 gear, meaning only Tier 4 gear is above it.
   

 

Let us know what you think? Do you like Bolster where it is? Do you want to see it go up?

 

-eric

Edited June 29, 2017 by EricMusco

[Jake_Chambers]

Bolster should be as high as possible. It's really painful to be not able to play alts because of how hard it is to gear, and a higher bolster would help

[micnevv]

CXP was an attempt by Bioware to make end-game activities more accessible to everyone. However it is my opinion that they ended up making it even worse for the dedicated/end-game players. This change has also resulted in some worrying gear gaps that should never have existed in a modern day PVP scenario.

 

First off, your options DO NOT FIX THE GEAR GAP! It still takes a ridiculous amount of time to achieve 248 gear through PVP. This is not a good fix.

Main Points –

 

Current PVP Gearing Speed : Gearing up trough purely PVPing takes too long. I could spend 20 hours farming master mode chapter one and be better geared than a guy farming PVP for 60 hours.

 

Gear Gap / Time Spent : Even if you did increase bolster to something like 242, it would still take too long for someone to reach 248 gear. Increasing bolster without adding PVP gear does not solve the issue, it is merely a band aid fix the will come back to bite you later on.

 

Character Progression : Character progression is a very important part of any RPG. Without some form of character progression the player will feel like they have not accomplished anything. This is why having PVP gear is somewhat important. Maxing out bolster to 250 may be a temporary fix, however the player needs to feel that their character has improved. Adding a tiny power increase such as an additional 3% would help with character progression. Please note that this 3% increase should be easily obtainable in around 2 days of PVPing.

Character / Inventory Management: A lot of people seem to forget that they are playing an RPG. Having to manage you character is not a bad thing, in fact it is a selling point for most games. An extra gear set in your inventory isn’t the end of the world. At a certain point QOL changes stop being QOL changes, instead they just stomp on basic concepts of the game.

 

Catering To The Wrong People : You are currently trying to get people who do not PVP to PVP. I agree that playing other game activities should be encouraged, however scrapping certain aspects of the game for these people is not the way to do it.

 

So what is my suggestion?

 

Temporarily increase bolster to 250 item level until bolster has been adjusted for the re-introduction of PVP gear.

 

Then bring back easy to acquire PVP gear (4.0 gearing speed) and significantly increase bolster to be somewhere around 3% less stats than an augmented set of tier 1 PVP gear. No matter what item level you have, be it 230 or 248 you will be bolstered to 3% below PVP tier 1.

 

This change would allow PVEers and casuals to hop in without having to worry about gear while also rewarding PVPers in a meaningful and time appropriate way.

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

I'll say this again one last time : Getting to 248 from scratch takes too long - This does not work well in PVP.

 

i would also like to direct you to your very own post regarding PVP gearing speed from a few years ago : http://www.swtor.com/blog/pvp-economy-and-ranked-rewards-restructure-game-update-3.3

Edited June 29, 2017 by micnevv

[oli-fynnobi]

I would like to have a bolster to 242.

[TUXs]

Option 4 Eric - Bolster to 246 level.

 

This allows a tiny bit of room to improve stats, but effectively removes the gear gap. 248 gear will still be sought after, keeping the grind exactly as it is now.

[merovejec]

1. Bolster is equal to item rating 238. - This is how it works today, this effectively puts you slightly above Tier 2 gear.

[K_osss]

I'd like to see bolster be a bit higher than it is now but I personally still like a little incentive to gear up and see a slight improvement in my character/stats.

[JojoMagus]

Spent 25 mil on end gear 246 armor mods/main hand weapons/off hand weapons (no relics/no implants/no augments/no relics).

 

I have heard someone gave up on PVP because of well geared ranked players playing in unranked. I would say make PVP max out on bolster for everyone, so the only ones losing is the one slow on the uptake.

[Lionflash]

Giving all players a 248 bolster doesn't mean all players have optimized stats, even at max level gear. So what if everyone gets bolstered up to 248 and PVP-gear progression & UCs are for PVPers who want to tweak their stats and squeeze out more dps/hps/etc

[Eloi_BG]

Option 3 (242 bolster)

Makes the difference between 248 and bolster small enough to make playing low geared alts enjoyable. Keeps a good sense of actual progress when you get 248 stuff.

[Eli_Porter]

If you place bolster at 242, then you need to make T4 gear sooner available through PvP to compensate.

 

This means heavily reducing the UC costs, especially for T2 and T3 gear. Alternatively, make 246 gear more readily available instead.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[TUXs]

This means heavily reducing the UC costs, especially for T2 and T3 gear.

This should happen anyway. UC costs are double what they should be across the board.

[kukumburr]

I don't have a big problem with the current bolster but I think it could be bumped up to 240 or 242.

 

Since the introduction of the galactic command system I've played fairly casually and for the most part I log on everyday and just do the warzone daily and make sure to complete the weekly. I do the occasional uprising or chapter too but not very often. I've just recently made it to Tier 3 and finished getting 236 gear (mostly from the unassembled components). So it takes a really long time for a casual player to gear up, although I actually kind of enjoy the unassembled component thing since it gives me a goal and I can get a piece at least once a week usually.

 

So based on that I think bolster should be pretty generous but not quite as good as top tier. That way it still gives a reason to aim for the best gear but you still feel perfectly competitive in the mean time. And I don't think that requires a huge change since I have alts that I pvp with who still aren't even in full 230 gear and I don't feel disadvantaged. But I think it'd be fine if it was bumped up a bit closer to the highest tier.

[Inspirator]

Bolster should be only as high as required to prevent those entering with lesser gear from being completely without the ability to compete. No one should ever be bolstered near the top. That makes gear progression meaningless. If players want the best gear performance, they should be willing to put in the effort to earn it.

 

238 seems adequate, but 240 would be okay since it is really so easy to get to that level of gear anyway.

[Eshvara]

242 seems to be the best idea out of those options. I don't know when a new tier of gear will come out, but if it's going to be sooner rather than later, it should be 246 rather than 242. Edited June 29, 2017 by Eshvara

[omaan]

You made it very painful to gear up through pvp, you said that "we dont want to force our players to do what they dont want to do" but in fact it is what you are doing now because today the only one way to gear up within adequate time is do pve and then buying BIS gear through pvp (which means you are actually forcing us to do WHAT WE DONT WANT TO DO). As a consequence Gear disparity became very large and gearing up alts throughout pvp have become a serious painful problem. Many pvp players just LEFT.

 

So yeah, bolster should be as high as possible so that pvp players would gear up AS THEY WANT (throughout pvp) without being one shoted by those who have 248 gear.

 

IN addition to this, the problem with both pvp and pve gearing progressions made our game more toxic, you can see in general discussion many threads where pve and pvp players are complaining and arguing with each other which gearing progression (pve or pvp) must be faster or buffed/nerfed.... these "gearing wars" are only causing problems

Edited June 29, 2017 by omaan

[yellow_]

Higher please. Difference between tiers of PVP gear was often as little as 4, such as 208 vs 204 gear last patch.

 

Also, the large gap is hugely exacerbated by how much longer it takes to go from entry level pvp gear to the best stuff. If that is going to stay --and I doubt there is any reason to believe that it won't-- bolster really should be higher.

Edited June 29, 2017 by yellow_

[omaan]

This should happen anyway. UC costs are double what they should be across the board.

Also agreed

[merovejec]

Spent 25 mil on end gear 246 armor mods/main hand weapons/off hand weapons (no relics/no implants/no augments/no relics).

 

I have heard someone gave up on PVP because of well geared ranked players playing in unranked. I would say make PVP max out on bolster for everyone, so the only ones losing is the one slow on the uptake.

 

PVP isn't about gear, it's about learning to outplay your opponents.

 

Yes I believe that gear should play a very minuscule role in PVP for the sake of character progression. However I do not believe that it is fair to mock people like that for wanting a competitive environment where everyone is quickly put on the same playing field in terms of stats.

 

Do you really want to say you will enjoy to PVP all day-every day without any kinda of gear proggresion? How long will you find that fun? If all will be equal you will then find other things you dont like, for example more class balance, more maps, changing way resolve works etc etc

 

By having to grind gear you are busy with playing the game, not complaining about stuff.

[micnevv]

Do you really want to say you will enjoy to PVP all day-every day without any kinda of gear proggresion? How long will you find that fun? If all will be equal you will then find other things you dont like, for example more class balance, more maps, changing way resolve works etc etc

 

By having to grind gear you are busy with playing the game, not complaining about stuff.

 

Yeah, It's how I used to enjoy PVP during SOR and KOTFE. I never had to worry about gear with the surplus of extremely easy to acquire warzone comms.

 

And I guess this grind thing isn't working since here I am "complaining".

Edited June 29, 2017 by micnevv

[wwwcarlosat]

Gear is onw of the reson i nearly stoped pvping. i like tp play on many chars (30x lvl 70 with rank 100-300). Most of my alts geting tier2 out of boxes - bolster is 238 - so no reson to grind and no reson to play pvp. But my sucestion would be bolster vor regs 246-248 and for ranked maybe no bolster at all.

[Going]

242-246 is optimal i think. Daily pvp players do not want 250....

[Eli_Porter]

This should happen anyway. UC costs are double what they should be across the board.

 

I think the problem is more with T2 and T3 gear.

 

If Bolster is set at 242, PvP players have to spend their special currency to buy gear that's essentially useless to them, Twice. First for 236 and then for 242. Both would provide no progress for a week's worth of PvP.

 

This would be less of an issue if PvP gave enough CXP to get players the T2 and T3 bases, but even then the T2+T3 vendors just serve as a noob trap to steal player's UC's.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Janglor]

Bolster works fine right now. If you're going to make me spend hundreds of hours to gear one toon, that gear better be worth the work. All people wanting bolster raised are suffering from a giant case of Mad Cuz Bad.

[DeeMoneyBig]

242 - that still leaves a little room for improvement, but makes stepping into an arena as a noobie a little more reasonable.

 

The real issue is class balance though - looks like you are addressing that as we speak.