Class Changes: Arsenal Merc / Gunnery Commando

[Vodamin]

As i can see, this guy is the only guy with a head on his shoulders.

All that he said is 100% true. So stop whining about DPS being ok as it was outperforming all the other classes in PVP. As a range nonetheless LOL. Be grateful they didn't go even more % down.

Also i hope they nerf those stupid DCDs as well.

 

Another whiny little **** pvper. Mandos are fine PvE wise. They perform at the same level as slingers, and slingers have the upper hand in more AoE heavy fights. I hate when the whiny little ******* pvpers ruin our pve experience. You are the worst kind. Incompetent.

[Sareeph]

*Snip*

 

Saying that mercenaries don't need a DPS adjustments because complaints were mainly from a PvP side of things, and thus the only thing that needs to change is survivability, is completely ignoring the gigabytes of combat data that are available as parses. The combat design philosophy posted in these forums is actually quite common among MMORPGs. Melee classes should always deal slightly more DPS than ranged classes, but their actual DPS is always off-set due to their lower uptime on the boss, which evens out on an average in the end. If a ranged burst class is vastly outperforming melee classes in every regard, like is the case with arsenal mercs right now, something in terms of DPS needs to change. Simply saying that "PvP people are complaining = DPS is fine = only adjust our survivability" is wrong. PvE adjustments are always made based on data collected from fights and from the database, and never due to player complaints. And in this case, mercenaries parse exceptionally well and are played a ton.

 

According to the "gigabytes" (like Parsely) of data from actual boss fights, melee continues to outperform ranged (other than Virulence) consistently. Data from these programs show the damage averaged over the entire fight (displayed as dps) not on a second per second basis. Burst has nothing to do with damage per second but rather average per second when using these programs. To say that we will achieve "Class Balance" using type of damage is why the Dev's continually fail at balance. The advanced classes are about playstyle not damage. Not sure why one playstyle should produce more damage over another when playing PvE. As long as they parse similarly at the end of a fight people will be satisfied. To make one or two outshine the others will continue to cause the underperformers to be left out.

 

I would estimate no more than 1% of this games entire database is geared towards PvP and yet most nerfs come from trying to balance PvP. As stated previously in this thread, to actually balance classes, the Dev's would need to institute separate proficiency trees for the differing aspects of the game and make it so that proficiencies would not work in the opposing aspect, just like they did with relics. They could even mirror the proficiencies but change the names and the bonuses they give depending on the aspect.

 

We all came here to have fun not anxiety but if the Dev's continue using outmoded formulae, the latter is what we will continue to have. Just because "X" mmo did something and failed doesn't mean they all must.

[Flingor]

Just another idea for an Arsenal PvP nerf:

Ranged DPS chars do not need reflection in PvE, either the tank holds the aggro or they can move out of voids or other unpleasent areas.

 

Just keep the mediocre damage and reduce the tankish features

Edited June 17, 2017 by Flingor

[sadklown]

I truly don't understand your reasoning or the fact that you listen to all the whiney pvp players and nerf our toons. Arsenal does not even come close to the top of the dmg charts so why nerf its dmg. To those of us that actually know what we are doing Arsenal is not "OP" in the slightest, they are not that hard to defeat. If you truly feel that it was out of balance why "nerf" at all, It seems to mean adding to the other classes to provide is a far better solution then to take from them. When you do these nerfs do you even consider the pve side of things? LIke I stated earlier if you look at the dps numbers It is a middle of the pack dps spec. Clearly no reason to nerf it. All that I said is coming from someone who mains a Vengeance Juggernaught. The whole concept of taking from class makes no sense to me. Anyway that is my 2 cents!!!

[Vodamin]

When you do these nerfs do you even consider the pve side of things?

 

Simply put - they don't. They killed the lightning sorc/TK sage the same way.

Now they are killing yet another fun spec - Arsenal/Gunnery, BECAUSE of the PvP complainers.

I am truly sick. I just hope those changes don't go live.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Vodamin

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

We've been here before... they post their "class balance", we tell them they are wrong... and many "experts" come here to tell us Bioware is right and that things will be fine.

Changes go live, and we end up being right.

 

How can you say it's fair for arsenal to be WORSE than lightning sorcs in the next patch? Not even lightning sorcs should be in that situation.

 

How is it more fair for Lightning, a rDPS spec to be at the bottom than Merc, another rDPS spec? Merc clearly has better survival, better DCDS, better healing potential than Lightning. Mercs wear Heavy Armor, Lightning has light armor. Merc has superior mobility and health [utility] than Lightning. Merc has an easier rotation than Lighting [hell than anyone else for that matter]. Mercs are uniquely able to detect stealth at times, Lightning can't do that.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the extent of the damage nerf to Mercs, I don't, save for The critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%), that's totally justified and a long time coming. I don't think that mercs should be facing such a severe DPS nerf. There may be other reasons that they feel it's justifed to this extent, but, from a purely PVP point of view, DPS was never the issue, it was survival and no one was complaining about thier DPS save for the critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking. This proposed damage nerf is too severe for the effects of which will be felt in PVE.

 

My point really is only this, someone has to be at the bottom of the DPS pool, it would be no more or less fair if it was merc at the bottom instead of Lightning. They do principly fill the same role and type.

 

All in all, as much as I hate to say it, I do think Merc DPS should be higher than Sorc DPS, but the level of DPS of Lighting is [absenting the exploit from the equation] cannot be justified by the extremes Lighting currently finds itself. There is 1000 DPS difference between it and the highest DPS rDPS class. 1000. That's an insane and unjustifyable difference. DPS differences between DPS specs should run higher than 300-400 at most and those differences should be found between Melee and Ranged in most cases as melee suffers greater incidents of forced down time and lesser range attack distances.

 

Why do I think Merc DPS should be somewhat higher DPS than sorcs [even assuming differences not more than 300-400] despite they both being rDPS specs? I can't give a credible answer for that based on evidentiary reasoning except to say conceptualy a Bounty Hunter is a more combat orientated role, bedecked in the highest grade of armor and weapondry who's focus is on hostilely confronting people they are hunting who will not likely go without a fight.

 

Than again, one could make the argument that the power of the Darkside of the Force unleashed in pure hostility in defiance of the laws of nature could unleash a level of force greater than any man made weaponry.

 

But these are subjective views, neither class is a pure DPS class and thus one can't make the argument that damage is their only focus or purpose, all the more when they both have the ability to heal themself and others and share the same exact off-role [healer[merc]].

 

Whatever the personal view, neither being a pure DPS class, one can't argue one should be lower than they other on the DPS chart.

Edited June 17, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Exly]

R.I.P Arsenal Merc.

 

Pve will be dead for us after this update. That's wrong with you ? You killed Marksman, Sorcerer, and now Mercenary !

 

Yup, it's sad that they are making this a pvp only spec. I guess if I want to play my merc I will have to do more pvp. It's too bad because I actually prefer pve content, but I don't want to bring an class that is designed to underperform into an op because I don't want to show that kind of disrespect to other players.

[Vodamin]

...

 

Who says that commando should perform better than sage and vice versa? They nerfed sage based on PvP feedback, now they are doing the same for mandos.

And what means a "pure DPS class" really? Do they have a dps spec? Yes? Then why should they perform worse than anything else in the game. There is no logic behind this.

Someone has to be on the bottom? Really? Why not make all dps specs equally good in terms of damage output? At the moment the difference between the top parsing class and the top parsing sage is 2k! TWO K! This is ridiculous.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Vodamin

[Tadagyt]

How is it more fair for Lightning, a rDPS spec to be at the bottom than Merc, another rDPS spec? Merc clearly has better survival, better DCDS, better healing potential than Lightning. Mercs wear Heavy Armor, Lightning has light armor. Merc has superior mobility and health [utility] than Lightning. Merc has an easier rotation than Lighting [hell than anyone else for that matter]. Mercs are uniquely able to detect stealth at times, Lightning can't do that.

 

What I meant is that no class, not even lightning sorc should be that bad. They butchered it yet it's supposed to work as intended, so now mercs are intended to be worse. Lightning is not fine, it's not working as intended, they need a buff. No class should be the new lightning sorc, because they are not ok.

[Red_rocks]

Best advice I can give you guys about this nerf... ESO has changed dramatically for the better since launch, I'm really enjoying having to think about some boss fights and come up with a strategy even while leveling. These guys deserve empty servers with the way theyve treated the playerbase over and over since 5.0 release.

[HKtheindomitable]

I'm amused by how 98% here that are disagreeing with the dev post think they know better and are trying to tell the devs what to do. None of them even read the other dev post about how balance is done. They also don't (or more accurately won't) accept the fact that what the player sees, and what they see are two drastically different things and that balance isn't a simple cut/paste of abilities. No game that requires balance is that simple. They also fail to recognize that if it seems true, that does not make it true (eg: "I see the match go as X vs class types, therefore Y must be true." "I see the devs doing X, therefore Y that sounds true on the surface MUST be true.") And not one of them that are asking for the hack and slash, full blast removal of abilities/utilities has any clue of how balancing takes place in its entirety.

 

Therefore I will say it now that those of you doing that WILL be disappointed by decisions made because you expect that what you see to be full fact instead of recognizing that you will not always win in PvP 1v1 as that is a team effort, and in PvE you don't win 1v1 because it's a team effort. Also in PvP and PvE, you will not always be top DPS because that depends on gear, skill, and teamwork. This is not a solo FPS.

 

Balance plays a small part of it, and yes, I dislike how a marauder can two-shot my Vanguard, and an Operative can three-shot my Vanguard. My ability to survive solo isn't what it used to be. Half the time I suspect them of hacking when they move funny at the same time (specifically a certain Imp guild on EH). But I know that's most likely lag, and they are geared better than me.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Who says that commando should perform better than sage and vice versa? They nerfed sage based on PvP feedback, now they are doing the same for mandos.

And what means a "pure DPS class" really? Do they have a dps spec? Yes? Then why should they perform worse than anything else in the game. There is no logic behind this.

Someone has to be on the bottom? Really? Why not make all dps specs equally good in terms of damage output? At the moment the difference between the top parsing class and the top parsing sage is 2k! TWO K! This is ridiculous.

 

Because not all specs can heal themselves, have perma stealth, can use guards and taunt in DPS spec, can teleport, have AOE hardstuns, can skank tank, are ranged, have escapes, CC immunity, size of CC kit, have multiple lives, and can role switch.

 

All of those things effect DPS. If you have self heals, have H2F as a DPS spec, and I don't as a DPS I should do more damage than you.

 

I gave reasons why Mercs should or shouldnt which culimnated with, Mercs dont have a greater claim to more DPS than Sorcs or vice versa.

 

If you think that things like whether or not you can heal yourself, or perma stealth, or CC immunity doesn't have wide reaching effects of performance, than you you shouldn't be advocating the same DPS for all.

 

If you want equal DPS than other things should be equal too. You shouldn't get more healing ability, CC immunity and the same DPS with other DPS who don't have the options that you may.

 

I get not everyone agrees with the pure DPS class should do more DPS than non-DPS, what I don't get is why they don't have any objection to have other advantages and options that pure DPS classes don't.

 

You don't think it's fair that mercs have better DPS than you and have better survivalbility, I feel the same exact way about snipers and Lethality OPs and Deception.

 

I don't care that other classes can switch roles, off tank, off heal, guard and taunt in DPS spec, can skank tank, heal themselves, have CC immunity and better CC kits than me, I care they have higher DPS than me when I don't have any of those others things too.

 

I don't think it's wrong that mercs have better DPS than you and better survival than you, I think it's wrong they have both of those things over you.

 

The only point of disagreement me and you have, is the level of DPS should be the same for all DPS specs and that being a pure DPS class shouldn't matter. I do think pure DPS classes should have more DPS providing they don't have self heals [like Snipers]. I make no apologies for that view.

[HKtheindomitable]

Because not all specs can heal themselves, have perma stealth, can use guards and taunt in DPS spec, can teleport, have AOE hardstuns, can skank tank, are ranged, have escapes, CC immunity, size of CC kit, have multiple lives, and can role switch.

 

All of those things effect DPS. If you have self heals, have H2F as a DPS spec, and I don't as a DPS I should do more damage than you.

 

I gave reasons why Mercs should or shouldnt which culimnated with, Mercs dont have a greater claim to more DPS than Sorcs or vice versa.

 

If you think that things like whether or not you can heal yourself, or perma stealth, or CC immunity doesn't have wide reaching effects of performance, than you you shouldn't be advocating the same DPS for all.

 

If you want equal DPS than other things should be equal too. You shouldn't get more healing ability, CC immunity and the same DPS with other DPS who don't have the options that you may.

 

I get not everyone agrees with the pure DPS class should do more DPS than non-DPS, what I don't get is why they don't have any objection to have other advantages and options that pure DPS classes don't.

 

You don't think it's fair that mercs have better DPS than you and have better survivalbility, I feel the same exact way about snipers and Lethality OPs and Deception.

 

I don't care that other classes can switch roles, off tank, off heal, guard and taunt in DPS spec, can skank tank, heal themselves, have CC immunity and better CC kits than me, I care they have higher DPS than me when I don't have any of those others things too.

 

I don't think it's wrong that mercs have better DPS than you and better survival than you, I think it's wrong they have both of those things over you.

 

The only point of disagreement me and you have, is the level of DPS should be the same for all DPS specs and that being a pure DPS class shouldn't matter. I do think pure DPS classes should have more DPS providing they don't have self heals [like Snipers]. I make no apologies for that view.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

Regarding your point "I get not everyone agrees with the pure DPS class should do more DPS than non-DPS, what I don't get is why they don't have any objection to have other advantages and options that pure DPS classes don't." : It's because they fought X class, lost hard, and therefore the logic used is "X class killed me really easily 1v1, therefore their DPS is far higher than mine. If mine was as high I could have taken them out. Since I didn't win for that reason the classes are imbalanced and my class is clearly under performing." There is a failure to take into account all factors. All that is observed are what they see on the surface and then assumptions are made as facts.

 

How do I know this? Because I've had the very same thought (or I accuse of hacking) and have seen the very same thing repeated on these forums (and that of other forums) for the last five years in some form. However, I know that that kind of logic is false and there is much more involved than "my class is under performing/their class is OP" (or that their hacking).

 

Wait... I used thought in this. We both did. We did it all wrong. Let's correct that shall we?

 

SCREW ye! ye dnt kno ANYTHING! ilm rigjt ans yer wronq! thay cleary dnt kno want thay'RE DOING! ilm doing tuh UNSUB ans UNDOWNLOAD thee GAME!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Another whiny little **** pvper. Mandos are fine PvE wise. They perform at the same level as slingers, and slingers have the upper hand in more AoE heavy fights. I hate when the whiny little ******* pvpers ruin our pve experience. You are the worst kind. Incompetent.

 

That goes both ways, and I do both PVE [Progression raider] and PVP.

 

Now I agree, that mercs DPS shouldn't have been hit as hard as it was, the only thing I can see them definately deserving to lose in DPS department is the critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%), they should have lost that a long time ago when everybody else did back in 4.0.

 

Comparing Mando/Merc performance to Gunslinger/Sniper performance is an assanine point because both classes are OP as F. Both classes are overperforming, even in PVE. If you cannot see that that is only because your motives are self-serving and you just don't want to lose your OP class. I have on numerous occassions seen both in game and on the forums, a ton of mercs/snipers agreeing that their class is overperforming.

 

It is unfortunate that what they do to a class for PVP reasons effects PVE, but it is equally true in reverse. Unless they make seperate builds/utility trees for PVE and PVP, this type of situation is unavoidable. It isn't fair to PVEers and it isn't fair to PVP There isn't one class or spec in this game that hasn't been effected by this at some point. That doesn't mean they should let a class/classes continue to be so OP as Snipers and Mercs have been since 5.0. They are far more OP in PVP than in PVE, but they are overperforming in PVE as well to a certain degree.

 

They are wrong for how they are going about it. They should have addressed the areas that the main issue of over performance, that being he critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) and their God mode DCDs. But even if they had done just that, you'd still be ************ because both of those things would have effected your DPS as well for the worse. The target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) and the God mode DCDs are over performing in PVE as well and if you doubt that tell me how many Lighting Sorcs you are seeing in HM/NiM raids and how many Mercs and Snipers [not MM]. How about all those Pyro and Sheild Specialist PTs? DPS Sorcs, they aren't under performing at all right? I bet they're giving you and your Sabo GS pal a real run for your money.

 

A DPS loss was inevitable either way, the other way would have been less severe I'm sure. Unless of course you aren't saying that Gunslingers and Mandos are over performing in PVE as well.

 

Is that what you are saying? Do you think Mandos and Gunslingers are perfectly balanced compared to Sorcs and PTs in PVE? Do you know what Parsley is?

 

How they are nerfing mercs is wrong, that they are nerfing mercs isn't, even in PVE.

 

Neither PVE or PVP have greater claim to anything.

 

Ask a Lightning Sorc how fair and balanced PVE [Raidwise HM/NiM] is for him.

Edited June 18, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Agreed 100%.

 

Regarding your point "I get not everyone agrees with the pure DPS class should do more DPS than non-DPS, what I don't get is why they don't have any objection to have other advantages and options that pure DPS classes don't." : It's because they fought X class, lost hard, and therefore the logic used is "X class killed me really easily 1v1, therefore their DPS is far higher than mine. If mine was as high I could have taken them out. Since I didn't win for that reason the classes are imbalanced and my class is clearly under performing." There is a failure to take into account all factors. All that is observed are what they see on the surface and then assumptions are made as facts.

 

Fair point. That is unfortunately all too common. People assuming because they got their *** lite up by such and such a class, it can't have anything to do with their own skill, or mistakes they may have made, it has to be the class that beat them is too strong!

 

Not only that, but, everyone's pretty much looking out for themselves, they're really not all that that interested in fair or unfair, they want what's gonna be best for them.

 

I'm fully aware not everyone agrees with me on the pure DPS class thingy, but, it just happens to be my true and honest opinion on the matter.

 

Ya know if you look back on 4.0 no one was flipping out over Marauder DPS. My point is not meant to be severe. I don't think the differences should be large. I think the DPS spreads between DPS specs are way too big and they were in 4.0 too. They should be a lot closer. To my point of view, it is a question of principle [and really that's all it is. You don't see me saying Marauders should be buffed. I'm adamantly against them getting self heals, but they do matter is my point, I also don't think maras should have a 4 second stealth, they should define the escape in another manner, stealth for stealth classes] I don't care if it's 50 DPS more and that's it, it makes the point, it validates the pure DPS difference from other classes, and it isn't going to break any records by such a difference.

I do feel not taking into consideration other aspects of classes that aren't necessarily directly DPS based should enter into the equation of the DPS outputs of classes.

 

The lowest DPS spec and the highest DPS spec shouldn't have over 1000 point difference. You can't expect anyone to be okay with that. They should bring the DPS differences closer, I don't see why more than a 500 DPS at most should be necessary, unless of course there are simply technical/equation aspects I'm simply unaware of as a layman[ to say nothing of being a moron], which is certainly possible.

[Sareeph]

They are wrong for how they are going about it. They should have addressed the areas that the main issue of over performance, that being he critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) and their God mode DCDs. But even if they had done just that, you'd still be ************ because both of those things would have effected your DPS as well for the worse. The target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) and the God mode DCDs are over performing in PVE as well and if you doubt that tell me how many Lighting Sorcs you are seeing in HM/NiM raids and how many Mercs and Snipers [not MM]. How about all those Pyro and Sheild Specialist PTs? DPS Sorcs, they aren't under performing at all right? I bet they're giving you and your Sabo GS pal a real run for your money.

 

A DPS loss was inevitable either way, the other way would have been less severe I'm sure. Unless of course you aren't saying that Gunslingers and Mandos are over performing in PVE as well.

 

Is that what you are saying? Do you think Mandos and Gunslingers are perfectly balanced compared to Sorcs and PTs in PVE? Do you know what Parsley is?

 

How they are nerfing mercs is wrong, that they are nerfing mercs isn't, even in PVE.

 

Neither PVE or PVP have greater claim to anything.

 

Ask a Lightning Sorc how fair and balanced PVE [Raidwise HM/NiM] is for him.

 

How many Lightning Sorcs are in HM/NiM Op's has nothing to do with the DCD's of the Mercs. The fact that the Sorc's are underperforming has everything to do with it which is what these changes will do to the Arsenal Mercs. The IO spec is very unforgiving of situational modifiers and minor mistakes, which is why very few of them are around. If the Dev's do not loosen the resource strain a bit for IO, you will rarely see dps Mercs in Operations as well. They will be sipping tea on the sidelines with the Sorc's.

[Shirvington]

It's like people don't read, they will address utilities in the next balance patch, first, their priority was to ensure the healing and damage output of classes was in line with their overall strategy, then they will adjust utilities.

 

People. READ THIS

[christian_bmx]

Thanks for killing another class.

hm or nim cannot be played with either sorc dps, powertech dps, sniper marksmanship, and now the arsenal.

95% of the game is pve. But you only make changes for the pvp.

All classes should have the same stats for Pve.

 

Go on and keep realising packs with usseles stuff and unnecessary changes intead off good things like a new class or a new operation, flashpoint or pvp map

Edited June 18, 2017 by christian_bmx

[Evolixe]

then they will adjust utilities so the whole class becomes utterly useless.

Because why nerf damage once, if you can nerf it twice when you address utilities afterwards?

 

People. READ THIS

 

Oh I read it alright.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Evolixe

[stoopicus]

Oh I read it alright.

 

As you've noted elsewhere, it's exactly what's going to happen. By fall Mercs will be back in the trashcan as a class, because to balance the problems they are causing in PvP, they are going to need a relatively heavy-handed smack to their DCDs - and their damage has already been nerfed. They are going to go from being the hovertank they currently are to being a Glass Squirt Gun.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

How many Lightning Sorcs are in HM/NiM Op's has nothing to do with the DCD's of the Mercs. The fact that the Sorc's are underperforming has everything to do with it which is what these changes will do to the Arsenal Mercs. The IO spec is very unforgiving of situational modifiers and minor mistakes, which is why very few of them are around. If the Dev's do not loosen the resource strain a bit for IO, you will rarely see dps Mercs in Operations as well. They will be sipping tea on the sidelines with the Sorc's.

 

DCDs help keep you alive. Reflects allow you to stand in stupid and get in the way of cleaves so fluff DPS back onto the boss that just cleaved. Damage heals you? Stay in stupid intentionally, ignore raid mechaics, freecast while everyone else without a heal/reflect has to move.

 

Extra life? No, that never helps with DPS. That you can't be rezzed in many instances during a raid doesn't matter in the least. That you can avoid death 3 times has absolutely no baring in raiding whatsoever, because as everybody knows death does not diminish DPS output or put greater strain on the remaining group members despire the fact they are now down a DPS. Death doesn't increase DPS checks for the remaining players either.

 

Clearly DCDS and self heals have absolutely nothing to do with survivability, nor do self heals, even if the teams healer has been killed, because much like the death of a DPSer has no effect on DPS nor does death have any effect on a dead healer healing the remaining group members that are still alive. In fact, alive, dead, that makes no difference at all.

 

So we have ascertained the following from your response.

* DCDs don't matter.

* Invulnerability to all damage does not matter.

* Self heals don't matter.

* Reflects aren't used to do more damage to the boss than what would otherwise be possible.

* Being able to ignore raid mechanics does not matter or effect DPS.

* Being dead has no effect on DPS output.

* Extra lives do not improve chances of a successful clear.

* Dead Mercs don't put added strain on remaining group members.

* Lightning Sorcs terrible DPS has nothing to do with why you don't see them in HM/NiM Operations

* That they can't face tank virtually anything has no impact on their DPS.

* That mercs are better tanks than PT Tanks due to their DCDS and extra lives from utility options while having some of the highest burst DPS in the game does not matter nor have any effect on DPS or performance.

*That people should cry for poor poor IO. Because that's the important thing.

* That all of this is Lightning's fault, this wouldn't be happening if not for Lightning Spec.

* That merc's God DCDs aren't the problem, they're perfectly fine, and they should be able to keep them, face tank everything, have three lives, be able to stand in stupid and ignore raid mechanics, be able to do reflect damage, heal at the same time, in addition to free casting their 35K heatseekers all while doing much more DPS than Lightning Sorcs [and Madness Sorcs], and Pyro PTs, and AP PTs, and Hatred Assassins, and DPS Juggs, and Fury Marauders [a pure DPS class] and Marksmen Snipers [also a pure DPS class who has less healing potential than mercs by Far].

 

Okay, gotcha. You're right, perfectly reasonable. Poor mercs.

 

#Buffmercs

#Nerf Lightning Sorcs

Edited June 18, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[thetexascuban]

Thanks for killing another class.

hm or nim cannot be played with either sorc dps, powertech dps, sniper marksmanship, and now the arsenal.

95% of the game is pve. But you only make changes for the pvp.

All classes should have the same stats for Pve.

 

Go on and keep realising packs with usseles stuff and unnecessary changes intead off good things like a new class or a new operation, flashpoint or pvp map

 

This dps nerf is not pvp-oriented. We are not complaining about mercs' dps output in pvp, but about their unbelievably op DCDs instead.

[Gyronamics]

So many people talking about how proposed changes are fine because the developers want to do it, reason enough to talk trash if anyone disagrees.

 

I say so many, I actually mean there's a few people literally spamming this thread with that.

 

The justification for DPS on a dummy for 5 mins by label is flawed because it never has translated cleanly across multiple specs into real fighting especially when more than one target appears.

 

But that is the basis for gutting the sustained damage of this spec. Plenty enough reason to disagree.

 

The reasoning for additionally weakening RNG crit damage and resource management is nothing to do with that, bonus penalties to discourage players by weakening two other aspects at the same time.

 

A combined discouragement to play the spec in PVP and PVE and it beggars belief that developers bothered asking what players think about it.

 

How could anyone with significant interest in playing the spec find agreement in a blanket degrading of output.

 

And for the opposite reason approval is easy to come by from players invested in other classes, it's actually raining approval from the most zealous.

 

But there's a huge group without any particular class investment who are saying **** the damage changes, the output isn't actually what's corrupting our game enjoyment.

 

Lets see if this developer BIG IDEA express train has any intention of stopping to pick up feedback or its simply a copy and paste dribble of changes in stone being posted once a week as surrogate content.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Gyronamics

[Sareeph]

]DCDs help keep you alive. Reflects allow you to stand in stupid and get in the way of cleaves so fluff DPS back onto the boss that just cleaved. Damage heals you? Stay in stupid intentionally, ignore raid mechaics, freecast while everyone else without a heal/reflect has to move.

So we have ascertained the following from your response.

* DCDs don't matter.

* Invulnerability to all damage does not matter.

* Self heals don't matter.

* Reflects aren't used to do more damage to the boss than what would otherwise be possible.

* Being able to ignore raid mechanics does not matter or effect DPS.

* Being dead has no effect on DPS output.

* Extra lives do not improve chances of a successful clear.

* Dead Mercs don't put added strain on remaining group members.

* Lightning Sorcs terrible DPS has nothing to do with why you don't see them in HM/NiM Operations

* That they can't face tank virtually anything has no impact on their DPS.

* That mercs are better tanks than PT Tanks due to their DCDS and extra lives from utility options while having some of the highest burst DPS in the game does not matter nor have any effect on DPS or performance.

*That people should cry for poor poor IO. Because that's the important thing.

* That all of this is Lightning's fault, this wouldn't be happening if not for Lightning Spec.

* That merc's God DCDs aren't the problem, they're perfectly fine, and they should be able to keep them, face tank everything, have three lives, be able to stand in stupid and ignore raid mechanics, be able to do reflect damage, heal at the same time, in addition to free casting their 35K heatseekers all while doing much more DPS than Lightning Sorcs [and Madness Sorcs], and Pyro PTs, and AP PTs, and Hatred Assassins, and DPS Juggs, and Fury Marauders [a pure DPS class] and Marksmen Snipers [also a pure DPS class who has less healing potential than mercs by Far].

 

Okay, gotcha. You're right, perfectly reasonable. Poor mercs.

 

#Buffmercs

#Nerf Lightning Sorcs

 

Again, the fact that a Merc has DCD's has nothing to do with Sorcs not raiding HM/NiM. People do not bring their Sorcs to Op's because they can't pump out the dps needed to pass the DPS check on many fights. All your complaints are how Sorcs are underpowered and the DCD's of Mercs are over tuned. EVERYONE agrees with you. Your arguments that another classes dps must be nerfed to below a Sorc's is out of place here. Again, we agree Sorc's need buffing. WHat we don't need is the rest of the classes being nerfed down to Sorc levels.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Sareeph

[Lupolus]

Rotary Cannon no longer improves Full Auto

 

At that level you can't even use Full Auto, so I assume it doesn't have any impact. is this true?