Class Changes: Arsenal Merc / Gunnery Commando

[Vodamin]

It's like people don't read, they will address utilities in the next balance patch, first, their priority was to ensure the healing and damage output of classes was in line with their overall strategy, then they will adjust utilities.

 

So first they are going to kill merc dps, and then their survivability. So back to useless like it used to be?

[Vodamin]

Rotary Cannon no longer improves Full Auto

 

At that level you can't even use Full Auto, so I assume it doesn't have any impact. is this true?

 

Probably they mean Bolt storm.

[piplonoid]

You did nothing with merc survivability. Arsenal doesnt have awesome dps. its all about utility skills. + You are going to KILL Arsenal for Master OPS. It has average burst PVE dps and it will become much worst. I dont understand why do u pay to your balance team.

[Glocko]

So what is scarier, them not doing anything to merc survivability or the possibility of them buffing survivability for everyone else.

 

If they do nothing about the survivability of merc/commando the class changes will be joke. How could they have not read the thousands of posts on this. Just shows they don't read what we post or they think the player base is clueless

Edited June 18, 2017 by Glocko

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Again, the fact that a Merc has DCD's has nothing to do with Sorcs not raiding HM/NiM. People do not bring their Sorcs to Op's because they can't pump out the dps needed to pass the DPS check on many fights. All your complaints are how Sorcs are underpowered and the DCD's of Mercs are over tuned. EVERYONE agrees with you. Your arguments that another classes dps must be nerfed to below a Sorc's is out of place here. Again, we agree Sorc's need buffing. WHat we don't need is the rest of the classes being nerfed down to Sorc levels.

 

I do not think that mercs dps should lower than Sorc DPS. I don't. Clearly sorcs need some love, I think that's something most people agree on. My response to you was based on you stating that it would be "unfair" for mercs to have lower DPS than them, despite the fact that its the same role [rDPS] and neither class is a pure DPS class. One doesn't have a claim over the either. But, I'll be honest with you, by conceptual design, I tend to see mercs as a more combat centric class than Sorc, that's subjective mind you, but, right or wrong I'm more inclined to mercs having a bit more DPS than a Sorc. The margin is simply to wide, and at this point, Sorcs are underpowered pretty much across the board.

 

Someone has to be at the bottom and that absolutely sucks when the class you love has that dubious 'honor'.

 

They're hitting merc DPS too hard. No one saw this coming. I think everyone pretty much assumed they'd be nerfed in the survivability area because that's the part of them that is so egregiously OP. But, if mercs are too keep their insane survival, than maybe this is a good time to let Sorcs have a bit of a DPS edge on mercs.

 

I don't think mercs deserve this severe of a DPS nerf, the only part i see justifed is the the critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) . That's it. They shouldn't touch the damage otherwise [speaking only for PVP], the energy costs should be left alone. They should have just nerfed the survivability some. I'm not even saying they should be put back to 4.0 DCD era. If that wasn't enough, than they should not be put back that far.

 

I get the concerns of mercs, as much as I hate them in their current state, I don't blame merc players for being disappointed because you know those survival nerfs are still going to take place just at a later time, and you are right, if they do all of these things, mercs will likely be underperforming and find themselves in the same position DPS sorcs are in now.

 

But mercs are OP as hell now. And I get that it's not as big of an issue in PVE. Many people tend not to care about overperformance as much when no one is losing face over it. PVP its a personal thing, another player is kicking your ***, and that effects the ego differently than PVE does. In PVE overperformance right or wrong still helps everyone else in the group because everyone wants to clear as fast as possible with as little difficulty as they can.

 

Even in PVE merc DCDs are stupid OP. But they're not getting nerfed because of PVE as much as they are over PVP, you're right about that as well. The DCD nerf is appropriate and the critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) is appropriate, this other crap is not.

 

You might not care about PVP, I get that, I didn't use to care about that either when all I did was progression raiding, but there are many people who do care about PVP and Mercs and Snipers are utterly rediculous in PVP. [i could care less about Corruption Sorcs, they can leave them as is as far as I'm concerned.]. You shouldn't have to suffer for PVE. But PVP shouldn't have to suffer for PVE either. It's a no win situation.

 

If later on they nerf the survivability, and if the DPS nerf is as bad as it seems it may be, than if Sorcs are outclassing Mercs, you may find yourself in the same situation as DPS sorcs find themselves in now. Is that fair? I don't know how to answer that question. Is it fair for Sorcs right now?

 

We need a seperation of PVE and PVP builds and utilities. Right now Mercs the only thing they are not GREAT at is stealth. They have way too much going for them, just like Snipers. No class should be the great at everything.

 

Even if Sorcs pull ahead of Mercs DPS wise, they still wont have everything on Mercs like mercs have on them currently. Mercs will still be indestructible 3 life DPSers. You can't have everything.

 

I play a carnage marauder, and they don't have any self heals at all, they kick some nice *** though. Even thought not having any self heals is a big liability, I still don't think they should have them. If my DPS is higher than many of the other classes who have self heals, I'm fine with it, because that's how balance should work. Strengths and weaknesses. I don't mind being a glass cannon, well, at least when I'm not fighting Mercs or Snipers at any rate.

 

Again, I don't think they are handling the OP Merc situation properly and in that regard you have plenty of support, in fact, it may be enough to cause the Devs to rethink the changes as they are purporting now. I really think this may get changed. But if it doesn't, mercs still won't be as bad as DPS sorcs or Pyro PTs right now.

Edited June 18, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[MuskyBoy]

Perhaps I'm a little naïve but to me class balancing in terms of dps should mean ANY composition can kill any fight without having to resort to cheesing. I want to know is it reasonable to be able to clear tight dps checks on Nim with a group that contains a lightning sorc, a marksman sniper and this version of an Arsenal merc? If the answer is yes then the nerf is fine, if the answer is no then then the dps nerf to arsenal can't be as severe and the dps of marksman and lightning needs to be buffed.

[Evolixe]

So what is scarier, them not doing anything to merc survivability or the possibility of them buffing survivability for everyone else.

 

If they do nothing about the survivability of merc/commando the class changes will be joke. How could they have not read the thousands of posts on this. Just shows they don't read what we post or they think the player base is clueless

 

The game is already a stalefest with healers and defensives as they are.

If they do that I'll lose all interest in PvP and eventually probably the game.

[LordTurin]

I think this is actually a fairly reasonable change. As someone who mains an arsenal merc in MM operations, I am not thrilled (especially for stuff like Styrack, I really hope my group kills him before the nerf, 6% dang), but from everyone I've talked to, and realistically, what everyone is saying here, DCDs do not exist in a vacuum.

 

Right now, in terms of DCDs, mercs and sages are pretty equal. Now before people grab the pitchforks, let me walk through why I say that:

 

1. Responsive Safeguards: in PVE this is clearly better than God Bubble, but in PvP I would argue that it is worse except against newbies (which is a fair consideration), as you can continue to damage, and avoid any heals from it by either AOEing, or swapping targets if you don't have aoes. Now it does have reflect, but if someone is able to use Responsive Safeguards to H2F, that is on the attackers side, not the defender. God bubble at least will give a fair amount of heals no matter what, and total time lasts for 2x as long as Responvie safeguards does.

2. Reactive shield: This is a wash vs force armor + cloud mind in both pve and pvp. Yes, reactive shield has instantaneous a stronger heal than force armor does, but force armor has a much shorter CD (even with the reduced cd, and again, not one that can be prevented by swapping targets), and even cloud mind has a shorted cd, so combined, they about equal the larger heal of reactive shield.

3. Kolto Overload: This one is a tad trickier (and honestly, I think if they just moved this one over to PTs, it would be fine), but vs. Phasewalk + Force Mend + the at least 2 gcds that someone should be able to get off of self heals + knockback root, it does even out.

 

The true problem, that I think BW hit on, is that mercs have DCDs as good as sorcs (please don't say as good as a tank, seriously, go bring 2 mercs into a MM fight instead of 2 tanks, and tell me what happens), but do way more damage, especially from a burst perspective (which is what the pvp meta is today). So they are lowering damage by a substantial margin (which I would be way more annoyed about if I hadn't seen this coming and started playing an operative instead), and then, after seeing what the new meta is after that change, making some adjustments.

 

As far as PVE is concerned, my only viewpoint is that right now, 4 arsenal mercs are able to beat every single MM boss out there (I can't personally speak for Styrack, Terror, and Brontes as we have not killed those yet, but it'd be a tough sell to convince me that 4 mercs couldn't do that), and simply stacking 4 of the same class and spec on every fight seems like it is not a great thing. Now nerfing mercs combined with the fact that gearing is still not great is a little obnoxious, but you can still get someone in all 242s at least by running HM ops (EV/KP) and that should be good enough for basically everything most people are running.

Edited June 18, 2017 by LordTurin

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I think this is actually a fairly reasonable change. As someone who mains an arsenal merc in MM operations, I am not thrilled (especially for stuff like Styrack, I really hope my group kills him before the nerf, 6% dang), but from everyone I've talked to, and realistically, what everyone is saying here, DCDs do not exist in a vacuum.

 

Right now, in terms of DCDs, mercs and sages are pretty equal. Now before people grab the pitchforks, let me walk through why I say that:

 

1. Responsive Safeguards: in PVE this is clearly better than God Bubble, but in PvP I would argue that it is worse except against newbies (which is a fair consideration), as you can continue to damage, and avoid any heals from it by either AOEing, or swapping targets if you don't have aoes. Now it does have reflect, but if someone is able to use Responsive Safeguards to H2F, that is on the attackers side, not the defender. God bubble at least will give a fair amount of heals no matter what, and total time lasts for 2x as long as Responvie safeguards does.

2. Reactive shield: This is a wash vs force armor + cloud mind in both pve and pvp. Yes, reactive shield has instantaneous a stronger heal than force armor does, but force armor has a much shorter CD (even with the reduced cd, and again, not one that can be prevented by swapping targets), and even cloud mind has a shorted cd, so combined, they about equal the larger heal of reactive shield.

3. Kolto Overload: This one is a tad trickier (and honestly, I think if they just moved this one over to PTs, it would be fine), but vs. Phasewalk + Force Mend + the at least 2 gcds that someone should be able to get off of self heals + knockback root, it does even out.

 

The true problem, that I think BW hit on, is that mercs have DCDs as good as sorcs (please don't say as good as a tank, seriously, go bring 2 mercs into a MM fight instead of 2 tanks, and tell me what happens), but do way more damage, especially from a burst perspective (which is what the pvp meta is today). So they are lowering damage by a substantial margin (which I would be way more annoyed about if I hadn't seen this coming and started playing an operative instead), and then, after seeing what the new meta is after that change, making some adjustments.

 

As far as PVE is concerned, my only viewpoint is that right now, 4 arsenal mercs are able to beat every single MM boss out there (I can't personally speak for Styrack, Terror, and Brontes as we have not killed those yet, but it'd be a tough sell to convince me that 4 mercs couldn't do that), and simply stacking 4 of the same class and spec on every fight seems like it is not a great thing. Now nerfing mercs combined with the fact that gearing is still not great is a little obnoxious, but you can still get someone in all 242s at least by running HM ops (EV/KP) and that should be good enough for basically everything most people are running.

 

I'll be honest with you, you articulated your points so well that it made me put the pitchfork down at the grab kneejerk reaction.

 

The reality in PVP doesn't really play out as you described it most of the time. PVP and PVE really are too seperate beasts, and while some Sorc DCDs may keep them from getting harmed [God bubble], it doesn't h2f, and they can't do any damage during it. If the sorc is near death when he does this, a good amount of the time it merely delays their death by 8 seconds. Sometimes they get away, but a lot of the time they don't. If their attacker is an impatient sort the sorc has a better chance of suriviving. A lot of the time tho, people just wait them out. People know that DPS sorcs can still off heal fairly well, so letting them get away isn't only about them getting to live, it also hurts your time because their off heals aid your enemies.

 

Regarding merc reflect shields, that strategy is of limited value. Sure, you can stop attacking them so they won't get heals from it, but AOE damage is very small and costs resources, resources you may simply not have or be able to get at the moment [i.e. sith warriors gain rage by certain attacks [AOE attacks not being one of them] and so if you can't attack the merc you can't build rage to use for AOEing. Furthermore, even if it doesn't heal them it's still 6 seconds of invulnerability and the ability to face tank anything and any number of opponents, it also allowed them to freecast 35k heatseekers into your skull followed up my a full burst rotation. They can also use the opportunity to simply self heal if they wish using them spammable self heals [life number 4?]. They DCDs have faster cool downs than sith warriors do as well and thusly they can use them more often. Stuns aren't always available and they don't always work. Mercs will often try to make u burn one before these use the DCD so you can't use it during it. Anyway you cut it, it favors the merc dramatically. Than RS comes around and as a passive they H2F. In PVP it's incredibly OP. Again, that might be a non issue to PVEers, but it's a very big issue to PVPers.

 

I'm not inclined to consider Sorc survivability as poor in any way, but it's not as powerful and effecting as Merc DCDs are [They're arguable the best DCDs in the game].

 

Should mercs be recieving the DPS nerf to the degree they are? No, I don't think so and that comes from a self-avowed merc hater. I also don't think they should have lower DPS than sorcs generally speaking. But if Mercs are to keep their present levels of survivability and their DCDs as is, it's a bit hard to find a DPS output lower than Sorcs as totally unreasonable. Something has to give here. If the DCDs were really more level between Mercs and Sorcs, I'd say Mercs should have somewhat higher DPS than them [thought not to the degree they do presently]. If it's not going to be from the DCDs, than DPS is the only thing they can lower than will bring them down a peg.

 

I do think there's a decent chance this may change before these changes go live, that may be foolish of me to think, but just given the outcry of the manner of the changes [by merc defenders and haters alike], it really seems pretty strong to me and the devs credibility with this later release of class balancing has made it lower than i've ever seen it. To ignore the outcry will cause the Devs to not have one leg to stand in the future, because no one will trust them to do the right thing or the appropriate thing, and will make the concerns of the player base be made to be seen as totally irrelevant in their eyes.

[Gyronamics]

*** was all that about DCDs.

 

Not a single bit of this is about commando DCDs and everything about:

 

- Firstly crippling sustained damage to fit the table of "who should do what after 5 mins on a dummy"

 

Then a bonus of:

 

- Hitting burst and resources to make it less flexible and significantly reduce burst when crits happen, a gunnery commando failing to crit does considerably less damage because they have 40% crit damage bonus.

 

And we're getting pages of literal post skipping verbosity that its all fine and dandy because DCDs.

 

Funny stuff.

 

DCD's are a different time because showing all the changes to a class at once would mean it can't be spread out over weeks to bait players into talking trash as a distraction from content.

 

Commando gets a massive PVE hit with bonus usability and burst weakening to make the class less popular. The vast majority of raiding is done with Commandos because they are really nice to use. Reliable with enough output. and it needs to be made considerably worse to push players wanting output into dumping it.

 

It's not the most devious plan ever made but it's a disgusting thing to do.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Gyronamics

[Torvai]

You need to seriously check on how high your target dps is.

 

If what some said here is right and this brings Arsenals damage on par with Marksman and Lightning, in and of itself this would be a good thing. To have the three ranged burst classes perform on the same level is how balance should be, damage wise.

 

BUT if this is what your target dps looks like, then it's way too low. Because Arsenals damage was just fine for the hardest NiM bosses. It was where it needed to be to meet the dps checks. (Styrak Manifestation anyone? Brontes burn? Firebrand and Stormcaller?). Anything way below that level is just not strong enough for these fights.

 

So, I urge you devs to seriously check on your numbers in the regard of high end PvE raiding. If what you do to arsenal is the target dps, or even target -5% because it's ranged burst, then this bar is set too low.

And on the other hand, if you instead buff stuff up to Arsenals live levels and the appropriate dps for other specs according to the philosophy, this will solve alot of problems with PvP as well because it will automatically nerf healers, lessen TTK and stuff will once again die in PvP.

 

So again: Seriously check on your target dps numbers.

[Hombad]

You need to seriously check on how high your target dps is.

 

If what some said here is right and this brings Arsenals damage on par with Marksman and Lightning, in and of itself this would be a good thing. To have the three ranged burst classes perform on the same level is how balance should be, damage wise.

 

BUT if this is what your target dps looks like, then it's way too low. Because Arsenals damage was just fine for the hardest NiM bosses. It was where it needed to be to meet the dps checks. (Styrak Manifestation anyone? Brontes burn? Firebrand and Stormcaller?). Anything way below that level is just not strong enough for these fights.

 

So, I urge you devs to seriously check on your numbers in the regard of high end PvE raiding. If what you do to arsenal is the target dps, or even target -5% because it's ranged burst, then this bar is set too low.

And on the other hand, if you instead buff stuff up to Arsenals live levels and the appropriate dps for other specs according to the philosophy, this will solve alot of problems with PvP as well because it will automatically nerf healers, lessen TTK and stuff will once again die in PvP.

 

So again: Seriously check on your target dps numbers.

 

Marksman sniper has the highest sniper burn phase for Brontes NiM of all sniper specs.

 

Both burst specs are viable for all nim content basically

 

This just pushes that content out of the range of those who have been carried by their class to get there imo.

[Torvai]

Marksman sniper has the highest sniper burn phase for Brontes NiM of all sniper specs.

 

Both burst specs are viable for all nim content basically

 

This just pushes that content out of the range of those who have been carried by their class to get there imo.

 

Maybe. Maybe Not. I saw Veldix's parse of almost 8k on Brontes in MM. But keep in mind that NiM is(or rather should be, if it isn't) balanced around 242 gear. At max, possible even 236 to 240. So the fact that MM does enough damage for one of the toughest dps checks 1 or two itemlevels over what should be required doesn't prove anything(I assumed that he has more or less BiS, please correct me if I'm wrong).

[FerkWork]

Marksman sniper has the highest sniper burn phase for Brontes NiM of all sniper specs.

 

Both burst specs are viable for all nim content basically

 

This just pushes that content out of the range of those who have been carried by their class to get there imo.

 

 

 

If you look at the Starparse raid challenges even that person higher recorded burn I can see is in Virulence. Since this is the only part that matters, due to the longer than normal execute phase Virulence will outperform MM on average. Which is also true for Mercs already: IO on average does more damage than Arsenal because of this.

 

Second as pointed out it's hard to judge difficulty when fights tuned to 236-240 gear are being done in 248 gear. Shall see when the new Op's MM Mode drops to see how well new Arsenal does.

Edited June 19, 2017 by FerkWork

[TUXs]

So many people talking about how proposed changes are fine because the developers want to do it, reason enough to talk trash if anyone disagrees.

 

I say so many, I actually mean there's a few people literally spamming this thread with that.

 

The justification for DPS on a dummy for 5 mins by label is flawed because it never has translated cleanly across multiple specs into real fighting especially when more than one target appears.

 

But that is the basis for gutting the sustained damage of this spec. Plenty enough reason to disagree.

 

The reasoning for additionally weakening RNG crit damage and resource management is nothing to do with that, bonus penalties to discourage players by weakening two other aspects at the same time.

 

A combined discouragement to play the spec in PVP and PVE and it beggars belief that developers bothered asking what players think about it.

 

How could anyone with significant interest in playing the spec find agreement in a blanket degrading of output.

 

And for the opposite reason approval is easy to come by from players invested in other classes, it's actually raining approval from the most zealous.

 

But there's a huge group without any particular class investment who are saying **** the damage changes, the output isn't actually what's corrupting our game enjoyment.

 

Lets see if this developer BIG IDEA express train has any intention of stopping to pick up feedback or its simply a copy and paste dribble of changes in stone being posted once a week as surrogate content.

If there's any single person I hope they listen to, it's you...well before anyone else. I honestly wish they'd consult with you on the class, as there is nobody who's opinions I value more.

[KendraP]

DCDs help keep you alive. Reflects allow you to stand in stupid and get in the way of cleaves so fluff DPS back onto the boss that just cleaved. Damage heals you? Stay in stupid intentionally, ignore raid mechaics, freecast while everyone else without a heal/reflect has to move.

 

Extra life? No, that never helps with DPS. That you can't be rezzed in many instances during a raid doesn't matter in the least. That you can avoid death 3 times has absolutely no baring in raiding whatsoever, because as everybody knows death does not diminish DPS output or put greater strain on the remaining group members despire the fact they are now down a DPS. Death doesn't increase DPS checks for the remaining players either.

 

Clearly DCDS and self heals have absolutely nothing to do with survivability, nor do self heals, even if the teams healer has been killed, because much like the death of a DPSer has no effect on DPS nor does death have any effect on a dead healer healing the remaining group members that are still alive. In fact, alive, dead, that makes no difference at all.

 

So we have ascertained the following from your response.

* DCDs don't matter.

* Invulnerability to all damage does not matter.

* Self heals don't matter.

* Reflects aren't used to do more damage to the boss than what would otherwise be possible.

* Being able to ignore raid mechanics does not matter or effect DPS.

* Being dead has no effect on DPS output.

* Extra lives do not improve chances of a successful clear.

* Dead Mercs don't put added strain on remaining group members.

* Lightning Sorcs terrible DPS has nothing to do with why you don't see them in HM/NiM Operations

* That they can't face tank virtually anything has no impact on their DPS.

* That mercs are better tanks than PT Tanks due to their DCDS and extra lives from utility options while having some of the highest burst DPS in the game does not matter nor have any effect on DPS or performance.

*That people should cry for poor poor IO. Because that's the important thing.

* That all of this is Lightning's fault, this wouldn't be happening if not for Lightning Spec.

* That merc's God DCDs aren't the problem, they're perfectly fine, and they should be able to keep them, face tank everything, have three lives, be able to stand in stupid and ignore raid mechanics, be able to do reflect damage, heal at the same time, in addition to free casting their 35K heatseekers all while doing much more DPS than Lightning Sorcs [and Madness Sorcs], and Pyro PTs, and AP PTs, and Hatred Assassins, and DPS Juggs, and Fury Marauders [a pure DPS class] and Marksmen Snipers [also a pure DPS class who has less healing potential than mercs by Far].

 

Okay, gotcha. You're right, perfectly reasonable. Poor mercs.

 

#Buffmercs

#Nerf Lightning Sorcs

 

Lol this had me laughing. Granted as a guardian I have a reflect too. Not nearly the same dps potential or survivability though. But you're right about pt tanks, they are the ones that really got screwed.

[teclado]

Mercenary

Arsenal

• Blazing Bolts deals 4.89% less damage and costs 20 heat (up from 16)
  
• Blazing Bolts deals 4.89% less damage and costs 20 heat (up from 16)
  
• Barrage no longer increases the damage dealt by Blazing Bolts, but still finishes its active cooldown
  
• Riddle no longer improves Unload
  
• The critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%)
  
• Decoy now has 2 charges (down from 5)
  

Given the new transparency and improved communication, I think it would be helpful to see actual numbers from the combat team. We know that Arsenal Merc is classified as a ranged burst spec, therefore the aim is to hit -5% from target dps. My question is what rotation is being used by the combat team with these proposed changes? Can you work through the calculation and show us why you chose the above changes? Are these people (below) correct or are they missing something? Thanks!

 

[1:54 AM] Multicam L3E7: Based on Bant's spreadsheet, the proposed 5.3 changes to Merc Arsenal will lower it's DPS by 886

[1:56 AM] doc: putting it where in the rankings?

[1:56 AM] MrBinks: around lightning sorc?

[1:56 AM] MrBinks: that would make me giggle

[1:59 AM] Multicam L3E7: At the bottom

[1:59 AM] Vasmi: by like a couple hundred

[1:59 AM] Multicam L3E7: Sorcerer - Lightning = 9324.83

[1:59 AM] Multicam L3E7: Mercenary - Arsenal = 9163.96

[1:59 AM] doc: lol

The DPS nerf is a little extreme. I did the math and it's a 9 percent dps loss (roughly). Blazing Bolts accounts for one-third of the damage in the rotation, and it's effectively getting a 15 percent nerf. That's a 5 percent dps loss right there. Add in the increased usage of rapid shots due to the heat management changes and the 15 percent surge reduction on another third of the rotation (heatseekers/railshot/priming, adding up to another couple percent dps loss) and we're talking about a spec that's going to go from averaging 10k on a dummy to 9200 tops. It'll effectively be worse than lightning, which is averaging 9400 w/o chain lightning bug.

[Jedi_riches]

I'm amused by how 98% here that are disagreeing with the dev post think they know better and are trying to tell the devs what to do. None of them even read the other dev post about how balance is done.

 

It's probably the same 98% that tried to tell them that the last sorc nerfs were too much and guess what they are not wanted in ops as they no longer meet the dps requirements.

[Aetideus]

I'm amused by how 98% here that are disagreeing with the dev post think they know better and are trying to tell the devs what to do. None of them even read the other dev post about how balance is done.

 

Nice reading during spawn time against 4 merc preds.

[HKtheindomitable]

It's probably the same 98% that tried to tell them that the last sorc nerfs were too much and guess what they are not wanted in ops as they no longer meet the dps requirements.

 

Many people say that about each class when it gets a nerf of sorts. However the method or "fix" the players are coming up with won't work. Their ignorance of how balancing works combined with the "all you have to do..." thought process is what is amusing.

 

It doesn't help that bad companies and stupid people have given game companies a bad rep. Stupid people ruin everything.

 

Nice reading during spawn time against 4 merc preds.

 

Your post goes with what the devs decision is, and mine is in support of them. Of course, if the rest of my post is read, it would be clear that I never said they shouldn't be dealt with. So... I don't follow.

 

What is "preds" supposed to mean?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

 

What is "preds" supposed to mean?

 

I think it means he's confusing Mercenary's with Marauders. Must be the 'M'.

[teclado]

preds = premades. He's talking about 4 Merc premades and how the "How Class Balance Happens" post would make for some great reading while you sit in the re-spawn area of a warzone when going against said premade.

 

In other words, all that theory means jack vs the reality.

 

I don't entirely agree with the assessment, but it's clear as day that Merc defensives are over-tuned. Now we are about 7 months from the 5.0 launch and we are only now starting to see some balancing take place. It's been taking way too long.

[DanNV]

If there's any single person I hope they listen to, it's you...well before anyone else. I honestly wish they'd consult with you on the class, as there is nobody who's opinions I value more.

 

We can hope, but the crowd too foolish to not hit people when they have bubbles up are pretty loud.

 

Given the new transparency and improved communication, I think it would be helpful to see actual numbers from the combat team. We know that Arsenal Merc is classified as a ranged burst spec, therefore the aim is to hit -5% from target dps. My question is what rotation is being used by the combat team with these proposed changes? Can you work through the calculation and show us why you chose the above changes? Are these people (below) correct or are they missing something? Thanks!

 

The people you quoted are way closer to right than the combat team. Previous nerfs more than prove that one. Lighting Sorcs and TK Sages are also proof that BW never goes back and fix things it totally screwed up, they just try to plaster over it. Same goes for GC.

[DanNV]

I don't entirely agree with the assessment, but it's clear as day that Merc defensives are over-tuned. Now we are about 7 months from the 5.0 launch and we are only now starting to see some balancing take place. It's been taking way too long.

 

Try to survive some of the current boss fights without those defensives if your team doesn't have an Op or Scoundrel healer. After the nerf to Sorc/Sage healing they don't put out the numbers to keep teams up without the defensives.

[LordTurin]

Try to survive some of the current boss fights without those defensives if your team doesn't have an Op or Scoundrel healer. After the nerf to Sorc/Sage healing they don't put out the numbers to keep teams up without the defensives.

 

Both my raid groups run double sorc heals, including one that is doing MM content (23/26 right now) and we've never had a heal problem. Sorc heals put up plenty good numbers (in fact, according to ixparse, they put out more heals on average than either of the other 2 by a substantial margin).

 

http://ixparse.com/rating/