Petition to nerf Merc/Commandos. please comment to support!

[Purgamentorum]

Again, I DO NOT PVP. So why should my mercenary pay for whats happening in PVP??? :mad: Why should my PVE merc be nerfed?? Usually people like when i'm the last standing, killing everything while they are kissing the floor..

 

Didn't you just create a thread that claimed you destroyed mercs in pvp in 2 hits?

[OneHit]

Oh look. Another whiny ***** petition. Where were you the last 4 years when mercs have been the focus in pvp? I didn't see you starting any petitions then.

 

Once again for all you fails. The merc has one cd that heals them to 70%. And 2 cd's that do absolutely nothing if your opponent has half a brain.

 

You know why they haven't been nerfed yet? Cause you suck. Thats why. And they don't nerf classes just cause you suck.

 

Ask yourself this. Who's going to save you from the sniper when the mercs get nerfed? Ut oh. Better get your next petition together.

 

 

L2p

[Schoock]

Ask yourself this. Who's going to save you from the sniper when the mercs get nerfed? Ut oh. Better get your next petition together.

 

2nd dumbest argument I've heard in defense of Mercs.

 

L2p

 

With this being #1.

 

If you think Mercs are fine as they are, then it's you who needs to L2P.

[Vember]

Once again for all you fails. The merc has one cd that heals them to 70%. And 2 cd's that do absolutely nothing if your opponent has half a brain.

 

 

So you won't mind losing them, then? PT will be happy to take them.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Vember

[Balameb]

So you won't mind losing them, then? PT will be happy to take them.

 

yes please

[Severith]

 

Once again for all you fails. The merc has one cd that heals them to 70%. And 2 cd's that do absolutely nothing if your opponent has half a brain.

 

 

Are you honestly saying that if a merc uses energy shield or reflect, and the opponent stops attacking the merc, then the dcd hasn't done anything?

 

Even if the heals on the dcds don't get triggered, their opponent still has burned their stuns to counter them, or taken damage while not being able to respond with their own dps. Not every class has spammable aoe that's worth using.

 

Every time a opponent choses not to attack a merc in favor of a different target, the dcds are "working". Every time a merc actually uses a dcd cooldown, and the opponent has to stop attacking or switch to sub par dps abilities, the dcds are "working". Every time a opponent uses all their cc to try and counter the merc's dcds, the dcd's are still "working".

 

Learn to think before you ask people to learn how to play.

[OneHit]

Are you honestly saying that if a merc uses energy shield or reflect, and the opponent stops attacking the merc, then the dcd hasn't done anything?

 

Even if the heals on the dcds don't get triggered, their opponent still has burned their stuns to counter them, or taken damage while not being able to respond with their own dps. Not every class has spammable aoe that's worth using.

 

Every time a opponent choses not to attack a merc in favor of a different target, the dcds are "working". Every time a merc actually uses a dcd cooldown, and the opponent has to stop attacking or switch to sub par dps abilities, the dcds are "working". Every time a opponent uses all their cc to try and counter the merc's dcds, the dcd's are still "working".

 

Learn to think before you ask people to learn how to play.

 

Really? You are worried about 6 seconds you cant attack them. Yes the cd is so effective for the 6 seconds you can't attack them.

 

Stop crying. Listening to you is terrible. I need to learn something? Man up

[OneHit]

Here's an idea. Next time a merc pop's energy shields why dont you alt tab. Come here. Start some whiny *** petition. Because obviously there is nothing you can do to effectively counter it

[Severith]

Really? You are worried about 6 seconds you cant attack them. Yes the cd is so effective for the 6 seconds you can't attack them.

 

Stop crying. Listening to you is terrible. I need to learn something? Man up

 

Then another 12 seconds, every 40 seconds due to trauma regulators and energy rebounder.

 

Funny how you were talking about 3 dcds earlier (kolto, energy shield, and reflect) and now you're speaking as if they only had one.

 

Add those all together and that's 28 seconds of not attacking a merc. Disregarding outside influence, any merc that needs half a minute to kill someone is a far worse player than his target.

[Balameb]

Really? You are worried about 6 seconds you cant attack them. Yes the cd is so effective for the 6 seconds you can't attack them.

 

Stop crying. Listening to you is terrible. I need to learn something? Man up

 

And why don't YOU go to school first before telling some else to man up. You did said 2 abilities, so you don't know how to count o are being a jerk only considering the shorter one.

12 sec + 6 sec = 18 sec

 

And in PVP 6 seconds are a lot, that is aprox 5 hits (for a single attacker). Imagine, mara/sent working in a 3 sec windows for burst. So, imagine in 18 seconds.

 

Do you want the enemy to offer you a cofee with your lone cap? Would you like a donut while you are at it?

[Opaknack]

...

Once again for all you fails. The merc has one cd that heals them to 70%. And 2 cd's that do absolutely nothing if your opponent has half a brain.

Wow... so you really want to tell us this defs are useless?

Nice try.

 

 

What is better?

 

A def skill to reduce incoming damage?

Or

A def skill to force the opponent to not attack you?

Edited March 21, 2017 by Opaknack

[OneHit]

And why don't YOU go to school first before telling some else to man up. You did said 2 abilities, so you don't know how to count o are being a jerk only considering the shorter one.

12 sec + 6 sec = 18 sec

 

And in PVP 6 seconds are a lot, that is aprox 5 hits (for a single attacker). Imagine, mara/sent working in a 3 sec windows for burst. So, imagine in 18 seconds.

 

Do you want the enemy to offer you a cofee with your lone cap? Would you like a donut while you are at it?

 

 

I have no doubt that in pvp 6 seconds is a lot for you

[jedcjedcjedc]

um, you can definitely hit them during energy shield. Either you kill them before it ends or you force them to remove it prematurely, in most cases giving a much smaller heal as the stacks have not fully built up. As for reflect, yes, it requires people with the ability to think. It's not OP because of the way it's designed. It goes from good to really good because people will just say **** it and dps the entire time through it. You can easily stun and AoE the target. If it is team vs team, you can usually hit multiple people in the AoE. If it's you're team vs him, he's dead anyway. If it's the opposite, you're dead anyway. The only way it would matter about having to AoE would be in a pure 1v1 situation like trying to take out a node guard that you can't just sap cap anyway. To recap, you can hard stun the reflect for more than half it's duration while continuing to dps through it, and you can mezz the powershield for half or more of it's duration, shrinking the heal drastically and continue killing them. Kolto Surge is the only one you can't really do anything but dps through Edited March 21, 2017 by jedcjedcjedc

[OneHit]

um, you can definitely hit them during energy shield. Either you kill them before it ends or you force them to remove it prematurely, in most cases giving a much smaller heal as the stacks have not fully built up. As for reflect, yes, it requires people with the ability to think. It's not OP because of the way it's designed. It goes from good to really good because people will just say **** it and dps the entire time through it. You can easily stun and AoE the target. If it is team vs team, you can usually hit multiple people in the AoE. If it's you're team vs him, he's dead anyway. If it's the opposite, you're dead anyway. The only way it would matter about having to AoE would be in a pure 1v1 situation like trying to take out a node guard that you can't just sap cap anyway. To recap, you can hard stun the reflect for more than half it's duration while continuing to dps through it, and you can mezz the powershield for half or more of it's duration, shrinking the heal drastically and continue killing them. Kolto Surge is the only one you can't really do anything but dps through

 

You're wasting your time. Apparently mercs are indestructible and there's no counter

[AndriusAjax]

Are ppl really debating that they're not OP? You can literally know nothing about the class, mash the abilities that proc and wreck. Mot to mention the derp proof defensives. Anything with that low of a difficulty shouldn't have the highest ceiling. That was the beef with AP PTS. And they got nerfed hard.

 

Atm, mercs are solid in 4v4, duels and 8v8. I'd say they're the best in all those formats. That's OP.

 

Snipers marauders and mercs are all a little OP right now, mercs being the most out of wack. PTs, Sorcs (dps) and juggs are probably the weakest. And if u think about it, that's completely flipped from where it was a year ago. It's probably not coincidence.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Are ppl really debating that they're not OP? You can literally know nothing about the class, mash the abilities that proc and wreck. Mot to mention the derp proof defensives. Anything with that low of a difficulty shouldn't have the highest ceiling. That was the beef with AP PTS. And they got nerfed hard.

 

Atm, mercs are solid in 4v4, duels and 8v8. I'd say they're the best in all those formats. That's OP.

 

Snipers marauders and mercs are all a little OP right now, mercs being the most out of wack. PTs, Sorcs (dps) and juggs are probably the weakest. And if u think about it, that's completely flipped from where it was a year ago. It's probably not coincidence.

 

Sniper won the 1v1 tourny lol.

[AndriusAjax]

Sniper won the 1v1 tourny lol.

 

I said they all are a little OP. Sniper at least takes skill to reach that ceiling. But my post is about how easy mercs are relative to their output.

[Severith]

um, you can definitely hit them during energy shield. Either you kill them before it ends or you force them to remove it prematurely, in most cases giving a much smaller heal as the stacks have not fully built up. As for reflect, yes, it requires people with the ability to think. It's not OP because of the way it's designed. It goes from good to really good because people will just say **** it and dps the entire time through it. You can easily stun and AoE the target. If it is team vs team, you can usually hit multiple people in the AoE. If it's you're team vs him, he's dead anyway. If it's the opposite, you're dead anyway. The only way it would matter about having to AoE would be in a pure 1v1 situation like trying to take out a node guard that you can't just sap cap anyway. To recap, you can hard stun the reflect for more than half it's duration while continuing to dps through it, and you can mezz the powershield for half or more of it's duration, shrinking the heal drastically and continue killing them. Kolto Surge is the only one you can't really do anything but dps through

 

Sub-par or better mercs will be proactive with energy shield, knowing full well they need to use it early to mature the healing stacks, and knowing full well it will come back soon due to the energy rebounder utility. The difference between a good merc and a terribly bad one is seen by if the merc needs to blow a second dcd to last the 12 seconds. They've got kiting tools, and instant heals with tracer stacks. The energy shield gives them 25% damage reduction. Even with 2-3 dps on them, they're going to live, as long as they use it early and actually try to avoid some of the damage.

 

Warriors and knights have aoe with rage requirements. In order to generate rage they have to hit their target. Even if their spammable aoe was worth doing, (And it's not, unless it's to stop a cap) they still can't do it because they'd have to hit the merc with a single target, direct attack first. Arguments that declare "You can easily stun and aoe the target" are not true for all classes, and not true for all situations.

 

Go ahead and tell a vengeance jugg or a anni mara, or any other spec with built in dots, he can soft stun his target. It's not true. They can only soft stun opponents they haven't used their primary abilities on.

 

Even if everything you said was true, you'd still have a situation where every other class spends all of it's cc to partially mitigate a merc's dcds. Meanwhile the merc hasn't taken significant damage. Do you think the merc is going to stop dpsing the people he ccs? Only if he's attacking another merc. Oh wait, mercs have great AOE. He'll switch to death from above and sweeping blasters.

 

Looks like we found the counter to mercs. Hint: It's having more mercs.

 

To recap (Since you like those) Merc dcds are so powerful that even the act of partially negating them puts most other classes at a huge disadvantage. Some are even worse off due to not having a spammable aoe worth using.

 

If 5.2 doesn't address this, we're gonna lose even more pvp subscribers. If it turns into another sorc war / smash mokey era situation where Bioware takes forever to fix it, it'll probably be the last nail in the coffin for swtor pvp.

[jedcjedcjedc]

mara may have to hit their target, but juggernauts do not. even if they do, it's one hit for 6-12 rage depending on spec. As for CC, it is on a minute CD or less. In some cases you can have cc up less than 45 seconds with alacrity, pretty sure mine is around 43, though I could be wrong. Some classes can spec to have it every 30 seconds. the only really possible way to "waste" cc in this game is throwing it on a resolve capped target, it's back so fast. you bring up dot classes, but DoT's and AoE also go through the reflect and shield.

 

I agree that in it's current state they are a little over the top. I disagree however, with the level of the claims being made. As per usual, people make mountains of molehills.

Edited March 21, 2017 by jedcjedcjedc

[Stellarcrusade]

You're wasting your time. Apparently mercs are indestructible and there's no counter

 

Bah of course there is a counter. Best way to kill 1 merc is with 2 mercs.

[Balameb]

mara may have to hit their target, but juggernauts do not. even if they do, it's one hit for 6-12 rage depending on spec. As for CC, it is on a minute CD or less. In some cases you can have cc up less than 45 seconds with alacrity, pretty sure mine is around 43, though I could be wrong. Some classes can spec to have it every 30 seconds. the only really possible way to "waste" cc in this game is throwing it on a resolve capped target, it's back so fast. you bring up dot classes, but DoT's and AoE also go through the reflect and shield.

 

I agree that in it's current state they are a little over the top. I disagree however, with the level of the claims being made. As per usual, people make mountains of molehills.

 

I have a vengeance jugg. If no rage is available you can get 6 without hitting. That gives you like 3 crappy AoE. And we do have one good AoE but with a cooldown. For juggs in general rage is not much problem (for mara/set is) unless you need to spam aoe, and the only spammable aoe is really crappy. Don't get me wrong, i use it for two reason: to stop a cap without targeting when slam is on CD or to hit Mercs in bubble, but is really lame and do burn your rage.

Since i'm comparing with Jugg, Juggs have enraged defence that works similar to energy shield except is instant heal on hit (witch is not that good, you can waste it if started too soon or can be of no use against a couple of good hits if started too late). Now juggs have to wait a LOT to get a second use. And there is no kolto and the reflect is 3 sec (can be 5 with utility) with NO heal.

So Mercs have 1 full(almost full) heal + 2 situational high heal + self heals + escape + electronet

Juggs have 1 situational high heal + no self heal + no escape

And Merc (at least arsenal) have better damage, and its ranged...sorry i just got carried away. I actually hate snipers more than mercs (particularly if i'm playing with the jugg), but mercs have too much.

 

Now, about dots. Most dots require some hit (same as some stuns). All jugg dots require a hard single target hit to start and all are very short lived.

Hatred sin (and i think a sorc spec) do have dot that do not require a hit. Hatred sins can be very anoying to mercs but more as a distraction, to finish the deal we usually require asistance (against a decent merc of course) because of the complete lack of burst and the merc ability to cleanse and self heal. How many times have you seen a Merc being chased by a bad scary (i'm joking) Hatred sin?

 

I do not ask for a giant nerf to Merc. PT got a horrific mega nerf and i would not like anyone to suffer that. But that does not take away that Merc are (along with snipers) over the top (by something more than a little).

 

PS: I just saw another thing in the arsenal tree: Decoy. No words, was it really necesary?

Edited March 21, 2017 by Balameb

[Ottoattack]

Merc way over perform in the absence of functional trinity and in the low end of completion. As things become more competitive mercs do not perform as well. Loading a class with DCDs does not solve its issues. It did not work before and it does not work now. It just creates a polarizing experience which ruins the game play quality for everyone.

 

Something has to change.

[Icykill_]

Nerf lightning Sorcs.. they are too OP

[Severith]

mara may have to hit their target, but juggernauts do not. even if they do, it's one hit for 6-12 rage depending on spec. As for CC, it is on a minute CD or less. In some cases you can have cc up less than 45 seconds with alacrity, pretty sure mine is around 43, though I could be wrong. Some classes can spec to have it every 30 seconds. the only really possible way to "waste" cc in this game is throwing it on a resolve capped target, it's back so fast. you bring up dot classes, but DoT's and AoE also go through the reflect and shield.

 

I agree that in it's current state they are a little over the top. I disagree however, with the level of the claims being made. As per usual, people make mountains of molehills.

 

Can you name the jugg ability that gets you 12 rage with one attack? I don't think it exists. Even if it was there, the jugg would still be spamming his sweeping slash to get through the reflect or energy shield. It does next to no damage.

 

There is no way your 1 minute cc cooldown is at 45 or 43 seconds, without something close to 35-40% alacrity, which might not even be possible, and even if it were you're ruined all your other stats.

 

If a player CCs at the wrong moment against an opponent that uses it at the right moment, that's the deciding factor in who wins, if the skill of the two players is otherwise close and the classes are somewhat balanced. You waste CC by using it at the wrong time. A merc, for example, who pops reflect but then also stunned their target at the same time has wasted their cc. Knowing when to actually use CC is probably one of the most important skills in pvp.

 

As for dot spec classes, generally the dots are attached to primary abilities, but don't do the most damage. For Anni mara's, dots are close to maybe 30% of their damage against a single target. For vengeance, it's more like 15%. The damage isn't enough to get around the shields or the reflect. So not only are they not killing the merc with their dots, those dots prevent using their soft cc on demand. Read the paragraph above for why that's important.

 

You disagree on the claims being made, but your post is full of "factual" misinformation. At least look at the abilities and cooldowns before making claims yourself.

[jedcjedcjedc]

stuns almost all have CD reductions in the utilities. 45s stun with decent alacrity = 43.xx seconds. the move for juggernauts is called enrage. it is off the gcd and gives 6 rage. In rage spec it gives them an additional 6 rage over 6 seconds, as well as sundering slash giving all jugg specs 6 rage in a single hit and battering assault doing the same for maras. you call it misinformation, I call it actually knowing what I'm talking about. Edited March 22, 2017 by jedcjedcjedc