Dark vs. Light Event

[TUXs]

Now they try something different and people grill them for doing something new...

 

It's sad. Great job BW for trying something new, least you were listening to us on how sick of HK rewards we were.

New? What is NEW in this ENTIRE "event"? NOTHING!!! That's what people are complaining about...there's NOTHING new...NOTHING!

[casirabit]

Yup, people complain about rewards being HK related, the players want something different and unique instead of what we have been getting.

 

Now they try something different and people grill them for doing something new... ya i feel bad because this does seem like a good idea, its different, and now the people who were asking for something new get, something and then pull the same old stuff like im quitting SWTOR, which they still say then say it over and over again.

 

It's sad. Great job BW for trying something new, least you were listening to us on how sick of HK rewards we were.

 

I have yet to say I'm quitting but the way they are handling this is wrong. They could have done it differently instead of making us redo every achievement we have in the game already. The rewards are nice but not nice enough to have to do all the crafting, flashpoints, etc all over again. It took me time to get those rewards and not just a few months but now my work was for nothing and they count for nothing.

 

They want us to redo everything and sorry that it is not right.

[Lakemine]

Here's a question for you: say you logged in after the 28 June maintenance window and the boxes that you've already done on old characters counted, and you get inundated with packs, titles, and cosmetics. What are you going to do for the rest of the summer and fall? The same thing you're doing now, right? Almost all of which you could do on a new character.

 

It's as if you're saying "I want to get new rewards for having done stuff before; I don't want to have to do anything to get them, chop chop bioware, send them to me." These are not subscriber rewards. They are rewards for doing certain things during a certain time period. It's a little disappointing that there's not any new content (other than 5 datacrons which are using a busted model of "difficulty through obscurity" to obtain); I'm not going to say I wouldn't have liked to have seen something all-new. But to do a whole new set of content to the scale that this one uses? The entire game from the starter planets to Ch.XVI of KotFE, PvP, GSF, Ops and FPs is involved. I think literally every system in the game and most of the instances thereof they've ever done is involved. That's an enormous amount of content, and the rewards are commensurate with the effort needed. If you complete Legendary Tier and all the ones below, you get 85 packs. They're equivalent to "curated" Chance Cubes (not counting the XP boosts or comp gifts, but those are small change), but that's still 85 Chance Cubes. And the titles, mounts, and armor. And you can get 55 of them by making 2 characters, running each of them to 65, playing through to KotFE with one, and doing minimal PvP and all the FP. The FP requirement for Champion level is a little stiff, I'll admit, and I'm not sure I'll make it myself. But it's something to do, at least. What do you get out of a monthly event again? An armor set, a themed set of weapons, maybe a dye module or two. And some titles.And they all recycle sets and enemies and mechanics.

 

The glass isn't full to the brim, and it's the same brand of beer they've been serving for a while, but it's not anywhere close to half-empty, either.

 

 

I will reiterate this, though, the folks with no empty character slots have a legitimate gripe. Not cool, BW, to require character deletion, server change, or expenditure of CCs to enter for them. Not cool at all.

 

While I'm on the end of being very sad and upset at this choice of "event" by them, I can see where your point of view is, and I can agree with it....but for one thing, its time gated. If it was more open ended or more time, then maybe. But to do all of that in limited time, it stinks. Because I play through the storylines when I want to relax, when I'm not raiding, gsfing or pvping with guildys. Meaning I want to do them on my own time and enjoy the journey and feel connected to my character. But this "event" kinda means.....you cant do that and enjoy it. It means rush through as fast as you can and then redo it.....8 times. Kinda sucks the fun out of enjoying it at a pace you like.

[Trynitris]

The way I read it, so no. In order for higher tiers requirements to be unlocked, you must complete entirely the tier before it. So hopefully eric can answer this to clear up any confusion. (Of which there seems to be a lot of confusion (which is bad for a blog post with info about the "event") or people not liking the requirements because they completely understand them)

 

This question keeps coming up, and it would be nice to have an answer.

 

For example, Eternal Level is the one that has the new companion as a reward. Eternal Level challenges are: reach Level 65 with a Republic Character, reach Level 65 with an Imperial Character, and complete Round 5 of the Eternal Championship. So, can someone just complete those challenges to be eligible to receive the new companion, or must all the challenges in the previous Levels also be completed in order to be eligible to receive the new companion?

Edited June 23, 2016 by Trynitris

[ColoniaCroisant]

Are these new packs or items going trade-able or bind on legacy? Because if I'm going to be creating and deleteing alts I don't want my rewards to be wasted on the ****** new characters when I could have them on my main

[aztecknight]

They should make us pay credits to unlock speeder piloting again, my first toon at launch had to do Tattooine with force speed and sprint because I couldn't afford to unlock the skill and buy a speeder.

[Shwarzchild]

The trouble is what some people find fun others don't.

 

Really the stumbling block for this event is the Legendary level, people are seeing that and thinking if they can't get somehow it invalidates all the other levels.

For Eternal and below the requirements are actually quite attainable, only one character needs to do SoR and KotFE content, the other one just needs to hit 65, clear all FPs (a good few have solo mode) and participate in a minimal amount of PvP. That's barely a light sweat for most veterans.

 

I know players that find speed levelling characters to be fun. They wouldn't even bat an eye at this.

I know players in guilds that run the same OP over and over again (they did the same raids in WoW over and over too) and don't bat an eyelid but suggest that they level up a second character and they pitch a fit at being exposed to so much repetition.

 

All I'm seeing with the announcement of this event is a lot of immature players that possibly need to step away from the PC and think about their priorities. Don't get me wrong I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the prospect but I can see what the devs are trying to achieve.

 

And no, the Legendary comment wasn't tongue in cheek. I honestly believe titles that players want to brag about should be hard to acquire, whether that is a skill barrier or a time barrier is a matter for debate but I have no problem being locked out of achievements because I lack the required skill or time.

 

I read things a different way. Sure there are those who are going overboard with it. Overall though, I know me personally, there's not a single chance that I participate in this event. None. In my opinion, this is one of those opportunities the developers had to put in something new, different, and fun. Infuse the game with some diversity almost. Instead of developing something new, they're shamelessly recycling all content in the game. It's just blah. Had they kept this like most other events where it's a separate entity on its own that players can enter into and complete from a mission on the fleet that'd be great. If they're into story, adding a story driven event would be really cool. Instead of creating something new...well I said it before to prove a point. They're recycling just like I'm recycling my words.

 

I think this event is complete garbage, a waste of the developers time, and frankly a ploy to cover up the fact they have nothing in the pipeline so they throw us into this well of old stuff to try to keep us from noticing they're not doing anything new. It's a shame, a shame, and whatever other S words you can find from the dictionary.

 

I guess though, their list of things to recycle has to be miniscule at this point. Recycled operations? Check. Recycle all the old events? Check. Oh let's just recycle everything else! That'll be great!

 

Overall, totally missed opportunity to really add something cool to the game. And, now we're going to hear how AWESOME it is over and over each month. It's not awesome. It's not great....it's not new or even remotely new.

 

This game needs more new, it doesn't need more recycling.

[Gaspodia]

There's not a single character out of all the 40 slots you couldn't sacrifice to get the Legendary level?

 

I've seen quite a few mention they've filled out all 40 slots and I find it hard to believe they are all unique or have as strong attachment.

 

Even in a worst case scenario:

 

Sacrifice level 65 Sith Warrior number 4 (there must be duplicate ACs and disciplines over the 40 slots)

Level 1-50 Imperial Agent then delete.

Level 1-50 Bounty Hunter then delete.

Level 1-50 Sith Inquisitor then delete.

Level 1-50 Trooper then delete.

Level 1-50 Smuggler then delete.

Level 1-50 Jedi Consular then delete.

Level 1-65 Jedi Knight then delete.

Remake Sith Warrior number 4 level 1-65 through Shadow of Revan and Knights of the Fallen EMpire content.

 

One character slot used up, all levelling achievements acquired and left with roster intact.

 

I haven't quite maxed out all available slots, but I don't have enough left to keep a full set of event characters. I don't want to play a character and then have to delete them. I'm not a role player as such, but deleting a character after spending time and effort on them seems a little ... callous.

[josephxp]

New? What is NEW in this ENTIRE "event"? NOTHING!!! That's what people are complaining about...there's NOTHING new...NOTHING!

 

New packs, thats new, exclusive items that look decent like free weapons tuning that is unlocked for all characters, and you can do all of it with 2 character slots. It could be much worse

[CloudCastle]

And then to add more insult to injury both of the new companions are female. No male companions.

 

Just as well, I don't want or need any female companions, so I just won't be wasting my time. Female players have been asking, pleading for a male force using companion forever, and this is what they give us. Why not a choice? Send 4, 2 of each and let us activate 2 that we like...

 

I know...yet another female Force user. We have only 1 male Force-user companion in the game (2 if you count Chosa Raabat), compared to the 6 female Force users (7 if you count Veeroa Denz.) Why does BW have this weird aversion to male Force-using companions? It's been going on for so long that I'm starting to wonder if BW really thinks that most players are only want female ones.

[Vhaegrant]

because it's absolutely unproductive an not fun!

2 examples which are already enough to turn my stomac upside down:

leveling 6 crew skills to 550 on 8 new toons which have to hit level 50 as well.

I want to play my already beloved toons instead of creating clones, wasting time and resources on them, because all it will amount to is them ending up covered in dust or being deleted anyway. It's too frustrating...

 

So you don't get Legendary...

 

Honestly I'm not sure why people are that worked up about not getting a lame mount and title.

I would maybe understand more if you were needing to jump through such hoops for the companions.

[Death-Hammer]

New? What is NEW in this ENTIRE "event"? NOTHING!!! That's what people are complaining about...there's NOTHING new...NOTHING!

5 new datacrons to find. That makes you happy...Yes?

[Eanelinea]

Eric, this is a nice event, BUT, if it's not retroactive it's not worth even attempting for me.

 

I have about 15 characters to level 65.

 

I have taken 11 characters through chapters 1-14 of KotFE.

 

I have completed 22 characters from 1-65, doing all stories, makeb, rishi/yavin, ziost, and kotfe. (varying)

 

I hit legacy level 50 back in early 2012.

 

I have five strongholds opened, and 100% completed.

 

I've done Eternal Championship 6 times, still have two more to do for achievement.

 

I've done all operations sm, hm, nim.

 

I......yeah, this is great for new players, but sucks for us veterans. As many toons as I have (I have about 60 between all servers) I'm not doing this. But good event for new players!

[Rolodome]

The trouble is what some people find fun others don't.

 

Really the stumbling block for this event is the Legendary level, people are seeing that and thinking if they can't get somehow it invalidates all the other levels.

For Eternal and below the requirements are actually quite attainable, only one character needs to do SoR and KotFE content, the other one just needs to hit 65, clear all FPs (a good few have solo mode) and participate in a minimal amount of PvP. That's barely a light sweat for most veterans.

 

I know players that find speed levelling characters to be fun. They wouldn't even bat an eye at this.

I know players in guilds that run the same OP over and over again (they did the same raids in WoW over and over too) and don't bat an eyelid but suggest that they level up a second character and they pitch a fit at being exposed to so much repetition.

 

All I'm seeing with the announcement of this event is a lot of immature players that possibly need to step away from the PC and think about their priorities. Don't get me wrong I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the prospect but I can see what the devs are trying to achieve.

 

And no, the Legendary comment wasn't tongue in cheek. I honestly believe titles that players want to brag about should be hard to acquire, whether that is a skill barrier or a time barrier is a matter for debate but I have no problem being locked out of achievements because I lack the required skill or time.

Pretty sure the stumbling block is not the Legendary level. It's the requirement to make new characters. That is the most common complaint I've seen and it makes sense with why most of the solutions revolve around the "retroactive" application idea. People don't want to start over, with no respect to what they've already done. That's the deal-breaker here.

 

As for "hard," though it is true that what people find fun is not universal, there is a big difference between, for example, a challenge and a timesink with a recommended movie in the background. My comments about work and games are a bit ancillary to the problem here. That's just something that bothers me in general, about the defense of certain game design choices. The conversation usually goes something like this:

A: "This is too much."

B: "Put in the work or don't do it."

 

Thus getting the attention of that part of my brain that is mystified by the conjoining of "game" and "work." Perhaps in some cases, it is a misstep of language and the person using the word "work" means "put in the fun or don't do it"? But I find it hard to believe that is always the case. There seems to be a component to it of some people wanting a game to feel like a job, for whatever psychological reasons (not necessarily to do with fun at all).

 

But anyway, that's getting a bit off the mark.

[casirabit]

New packs, thats new, exclusive items that look decent like free weapons tuning that is unlocked for all characters, and you can do all of it with 2 character slots. It could be much worse

 

These items?

 

force-Bound Dark vs. Light Packs

These packs are “best of” packs that are themed around the dark and light sides. Each pack contains two slots. One slot is a “best of” Dark vs. Light item, and the other slot will contain either a Companion Gift or an Experience Boost. Below are just a few examples of what items can be found in the pack:

 

Tulak Hord’s Armor Set

Satele Shan’s Armor Set

Revan Reborn’s Armor Set

Black/Black and White/White Dye

MSM J-37 Jetpack

Volatile Conqueror’s Lightsaber

Cathar Honor Sword

Unstable Arbiter’s Lightsaber

Two new Weapon Tunings, Dark-attuned and Light-attuned

And more!

A few extra details on the packs -the armor sets come in three separate boxes, Upper Body, Lower Body, and Supplementary. Each item that you earn from a Force-Bound Dark vs. Light Pack is Bind on Pickup, so they cannot be sold. However, these items do unlock in collections similar to other pack items.

 

Only thing new on the list is the weapons tunings. The rest have already been in game and I have a few them in my collections already. So New? nope.

 

And you don't actually get a complete armor set . They come in separate boxes so it is very possible the way they do things we will not get a complete armor set anyways.

Edited June 23, 2016 by casirabit

[DarthDymond]

What's sad is that after the announcement they have actually gone silent once again instead of coming in and explaining the reasons they are doing it this way. They have essentially ignored the comments when they might could have solved some of this by coming in and explaining instead of trying to push it under the rug and pretending a problem doesn't exist.

After the announcement, Eric made six more posts answering a variety of questions and providing clarifications. Even if they do make changes based on the forum's backlash, that's not the sort of thing they'd be announcing that same day.

 

Reviewing and considering the feedback, deciding if it warrants making adjustments, and deciding just what those adjustments should be is the sort of process that takes time. A knee-jerk response would probably make things worse.

[Rafiknoll]

Ya, its really good im remaking a knight and warrior because i haven't played their main class story in 2 years. And everything is doable with ease but the last level which will take a lot of grinding.

 

I am happy for you and people like you who were wanting to do it anyway, so it is not "thrown" at you as an annoying task, but that is no reason to be thankful for it, you could do it just because you wanted.

 

In fact, I already did it just because I wanted, and don't feel like doing it again!!. Many, MANY people played all stories as many times as they ever wanted to, or else they would have already done that again.

 

Sadly, I cant bring myself to believe that more than 2% of all veteran players still intend to repeat a story (and now we need 8 times), let alone retrain crafters, FINISH ALL HM FPS (some are hard or undoable with pugs, just reminding) and more annoyances (good thing we don't need to reconquer the galaxy, kill the ancient threat and Dread Council NiM with these new characters. Or -- I know! -- earn 10mil credits from looting alone!!).

 

Bioware, why do you punish veteran players? If your goal was to give them stuff to do, the majority isn't satisfied with what they got. The veteran players will be able to keep themselves busy with whatever currently is keeping them busy for a bit longer, and will be happy to have the work that they already done acknowledged by getting instant rewards which they can enjoy, rather than waste their gametime (which they rather spend on whatever they do currently: pvp, gsf, raids or whatever) on doing things they don't want to. Veteran players who agree with this paragraph, please quote it (only this paragraph) and say you agree, maybe it will move something if done enough times.

 

P.S:

Just think how annoyed can a veteran player who chose not to spend his time on this event when he sees new players doing things he DID ALREADY and getting rewarded generously, while he got nothing for it. And players who choose to do it, will be thinking: Maaan, I could use this time to raid/ kill NiM bosses/ improve my ranked rating or farm heroics for credits, but I am stuck here because that is the only way to get the rewards, which I would get with no effort had I only started the game later... And I didn't even mention players who have to delete characters (old or even new: psychologically, people feel bad when throwing away something they have spent effort on creating, however insignificant) to complete this event...

 

EDIT: When writing this at first, this post didn't exist yet, but as you can see:

 

I haven't quite maxed out all available slots, but I don't have enough left to keep a full set of event characters. I don't want to play a character and then have to delete them. I'm not a role player as such, but deleting a character after spending time and effort on them seems a little ... callous.

 

He couldn't see my post as well, but says the same thing, having to delete characters is simply irritating and that alone is a reason to rethink requirements.

 

I am sure I can find 10 quotes to support every little point that I made here, logic is with us and against you, and so is opinion of most of the paying customers, hear us!!

Edited June 23, 2016 by Rafiknoll

[Keraejis]

The problem here is that the HK-55 themed stuff was for subs, not necessarily for veterans and not too many subs or veterans were so awed by them.

 

The some of the rewards for this event are actually worth working toward... for newer players. Those who have been subbing and veterans are slapped in the face because it actually has some cool things to have but is gated behind beginning content they have played ad noseum.

 

I completely agree, as well. I'm all for making it difficult and making us work for it, but this is a bit on the ridiculous side. The event needs to have different paths that offer veterans the same rewards doing different things that doesn't necessarily include creating up to eight more characters.

 

I would really like to know if the tiers are cumulative as well. The question has been asked a few times. Come on, Eric. Stop picking and choosing questions from one person, go through the thread READ IT ALL and answer all the questions. I know it's hard to do your job sometimes but, eh, we have to level up 8 new characters, the least you can do is answer a few questions we need to know in order to do that the most efficient way...

[Knorlac]

 

I......yeah, this is great for new players, but sucks for us veterans. As many toons as I have (I have about 60 between all servers) I'm not doing this. But good event for new players!

 

I can't even see how this is great for new players...Having to rush 8 chars to 50(65) instead of being able to take it all in and just enjoy all of the content? Maybe for some new players, but certainly not all.

[casirabit]

So you don't get Legendary...

 

Honestly I'm not sure why people are that worked up about not getting a lame mount and title.

I would maybe understand more if you were needing to jump through such hoops for the companions.

 

Maybe some of us had hoped that bioware respected the veterans that put up with a lot of things and stayed and supported them through the years. It is like everything we did is for nothing. I don't particularly care for titles, (have too many) but I would have liked some of my achievements to have been counted, my crafting, my alliance, that I spent time doing, the EC championship I did but nope not counted. Nothing we did prior matters to them.

[JourrnoRush]

Eric, this is a nice event, BUT, if it's not retroactive it's not worth even attempting for me.

 

I have about 15 characters to level 65.

 

I have taken 11 characters through chapters 1-14 of KotFE.

 

I have completed 22 characters from 1-65, doing all stories, makeb, rishi/yavin, ziost, and kotfe. (varying)

 

I hit legacy level 50 back in early 2012.

 

I have five strongholds opened, and 100% completed.

 

I've done Eternal Championship 6 times, still have two more to do for achievement.

 

I've done all operations sm, hm, nim.

 

I......yeah, this is great for new players, but sucks for us veterans. As many toons as I have (I have about 60 between all servers) I'm not doing this. But good event for new players!

 

So much this.

 

You have players that have played every part of your game. This event will make us leave if you only reward those who do it, but then don't reward those who won't do it again.

 

MAKE THESE RETROACTIVE. Don't force your most loyal fanbase to just redo the whole game for rewards. Give it to them if they have already completed the content. You will lose more subs because people will miss out due to not wanting to repeat content they already did vs getting new ones to sprint through the game in four months.

[casirabit]

After the announcement, Eric made six more posts answering a variety of questions and providing clarifications. Even if they do make changes based on the forum's backlash, that's not the sort of thing they'd be announcing that same day.

 

Reviewing and considering the feedback, deciding if it warrants making adjustments, and deciding just what those adjustments should be is the sort of process that takes time. A knee-jerk response would probably make things worse.

 

An explanation as to why they did this way would have suffice at least for me.

[Vhaegrant]

I can see her viewpoint but for her to be angry like this then bioware is doing something wrong. I have read her posts and she is the most fair and open minded person in the forums so for this to get her angry then they are doing something wrong in the handling of this.

I don't see BW doing anything wrong. I do see a lot of players setting their expectations high for no reason.

You don't release new content for an MMO during the summer lull, you save it up and hope to get some return when the Winter nights start rolling in.

 

I'm angry because I was excited about this, I was looking forward to it, but there is no way I'm doing all that again. No way. And then to add more insult to injury both of the new companions are female. No male companions.

 

Just as well, I don't want or need any female companions, so I just won't be wasting my time. Female players have been asking, pleading for a male force using companion forever, and this is what they give us. Why not a choice? Send 4, 2 of each and let us activate 2 that we like...

 

I don't often get angry, but this has really taken the cake today.

I'm not sure why Legendary status is so attractive. I've not seen the armour but the title sounds and the mount looks lame.

Do you have every other achievement from the game unlocked?

 

As for romance companions that's more of a subjective matter and not really my thing. I'm sorry you can't create your own head cannon or generate alts for other characters to romance. I guess that's just not a mindset I can empathise with. Honestly I would rather there were never any romance companions and we could have had playable Wookies, Rodians and Trandoshans

[TUXs]

New packs, thats new, exclusive items that look decent like free weapons tuning that is unlocked for all characters, and you can do all of it with 2 character slots. It could be much worse

Uh huh..probably the "bronze" items they pulled from the latest packs...

[TakaAioko]

This event is a kick in the nutts for old players, even more if you maxed out your server slots in your main server.

 

Achievements should be retroactive and the event permanent.