Crafting Changes in Fallen Empire

[Master-Nala]

Just one question If you play as a casual player why do you need high end raiding gear ?

 

I PvP and wear the T2 PvP gear, but I'll answer your question. They don't need it, neither do raiders. Raids are tuned around you having the gear and that's literally the only reason you have it. They could have one tier of gear and balance all content around that. Why don't they do that?

 

Because players need some sense of progression to repeat content over and over. It's the feeling of getting a little bit more powerful when they play.

 

MMORPGs have more and more removed the raiding gate to gear progression because for a great many people it is a turn-off. They don't want to raid and aren't going to. They'll just quit when they don't feel like they have anywhere to go. So a rational developer looks at that fact and provides an alternative pathway for people to improve their characters.

 

Now, if you will, can you answer the corollary question for me: Why is it so important for you that top gear remain exclusive to raiding? And please, don't say that wasn't your point. No one asks that question without holding the canard that top gear should be the exclusive province of raiders.

[Clarian]

I'm sure we can, similarly how we can still craft anything else that previously used the other removed materials. They just won't be needing this exclusive and otherwise pretty useless resource.

Hmm...I hope you're right.

[keulo]

i would like them to remove once per fight in medpac it's useless to put it on

[Jianka]

Anything else aside, I for one will not miss the yellow crystals you couldn't even give away right now.

 

 

I'm sure we can, similarly how we can still craft anything else that previously used the other removed materials. They just won't be needing this exclusive and otherwise pretty useless resource.

Knowing BW I will craft as many as possible now. Just in case they decide to remove it and make me billionaire.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Jianka
wrong quote

[Prazzin]

Now, if you will, can you answer the corollary question for me: Why is it so important for you that top gear remain exclusive to raiding? And please, don't say that wasn't your point. No one asks that question without holding the canard that top gear should be the exclusive province of raiders.

 

The only things what are exclusive to raiding (now and in 4.0) are bonus sets.. You can get any top (198) gear with ultimate comms.

[Jianka]

The only things what are exclusive to raiding (now and in 4.0) are bonus sets.. You can get any top (198) gear with ultimate comms.

Ultimate comm gear << Ops gear

In some cases 198 Ultimate mods worse than 192 Ops mods.

Optimised stats vs Endurance crap

[HarleysRule]

I totally glossed over the personal conquest BS to get some crafting mats. Yeah, no thanks. Edited October 7, 2015 by HarleysRule

[FerkWork]

I PvP and wear the T2 PvP gear, but I'll answer your question. They don't need it, neither do raiders. Raids are tuned around you having the gear and that's literally the only reason you have it. They could have one tier of gear and balance all content around that. Why don't they do that?

 

Because players need some sense of progression to repeat content over and over. It's the feeling of getting a little bit more powerful when they play.

 

MMORPGs have more and more removed the raiding gate to gear progression because for a great many people it is a turn-off. They don't want to raid and aren't going to. They'll just quit when they don't feel like they have anywhere to go. So a rational developer looks at that fact and provides an alternative pathway for people to improve their characters.

 

Now, if you will, can you answer the corollary question for me: Why is it so important for you that top gear remain exclusive to raiding? And please, don't say that wasn't your point. No one asks that question without holding the canard that top gear should be the exclusive province of raiders.

 

Ahy can't I get PvP gear from raiding? Why not remove expertise from game to remove exclusivity from Pvpers? I don't think it's fair that these remain exclusive to Pvpers and thus should get Ranked Gear from the GTN. But muh ELO!

Edited October 7, 2015 by FerkWork

[Faelandaea]

in their new gear running TFB who has no clue how to do a fight is going to waste a lot of people's time if they know nothing about the fights.

 

Gear has NOTHING to do with ANYONE getting into a Raid. Either a person sucks or they don't suck. NEVER judge a person based on gear. That is a HUGE mistake.

 

I see so many people do the whole "I have this gear which proves I did that content" - biggest line of BS ever. I see SO many terrible players literally get CARRIED through content, win a roll on a piece of gear and then wear that gear bragging they "earned" it somehow.

 

I do agree with how you feel, though. i agree with your perceptions based on what you wrote, but I definitely do not want folks out there having the wrong idea about gear. In my eyes, only a player's reputation among his/her peers on how he/she plays says anything about if they are qualified to be running alongside me in a raid.

 

Like you, I'd rather have a great player in **** gear than a terrible player in top gear. But even before this system, it was always easy for a terrible player to get a complete set of high end OPs gear just getting carried.

 

In the end, being able to craft high end gear will make PvE easier for a lot of folks, without making any difference in OPs as far as player quality.

[rionbk]

Retiring and making obsolete schematics that have taken crafters a long time to build up, simiplifying the crafting to primary school grade .... "streamlining" they call it?

Taking away any process of actually using your brain a little to craft, I really have been dreading this, but looks like it's true.

Been playing since the start but this seems it's the final nail in the coffin.

Here's hoping some of these new next gen korean games will be miles better.

[Quraswren]

I totally glossed over the personal conquest BS to get some crafting mats. Yeah, no thanks.

 

Yea, I'm really shocked at that one.

 

But cybertech, artifice and biochem getting screwed over as they are after 4 years of building schematics and using created stuff. changing so much that makes no sense when leaving it where it was didn't break the game.

 

BW is making sure to disappoint so far. There isn't any information BW has released for the positive so far that outweighs the damage, forced leveling, achievement removal with the loss of titles just to make you redo them plus the crafting changes does.

 

It's no wonder our long time games are in a constant W.TF state.

[GrellanMor]

Gear has NOTHING to do with ANYONE getting into a Raid. Either a person sucks or they don't suck. NEVER judge a person based on gear. That is a HUGE mistake.

 

I see so many people do the whole "I have this gear which proves I did that content" - biggest line of BS ever. I see SO many terrible players literally get CARRIED through content, win a roll on a piece of gear and then wear that gear bragging they "earned" it somehow.

 

I do agree with how you feel, though. i agree with your perceptions based on what you wrote, but I definitely do not want folks out there having the wrong idea about gear. In my eyes, only a player's reputation among his/her peers on how he/she plays says anything about if they are qualified to be running alongside me in a raid.

 

Like you, I'd rather have a great player in **** gear than a terrible player in top gear. But even before this system, it was always easy for a terrible player to get a complete set of high end OPs gear just getting carried.

 

In the end, being able to craft high end gear will make PvE easier for a lot of folks, without making any difference in OPs as far as player quality.

 

I had a long talk about just these topics last night and this morning with my guildies and it is true. I am looking for devils behind every bush in regards to this. I am not normally negative, in fact most of the changes and announcements made so far have been pretty great so far. I looked at this one and started kicking around for some reason.

 

I am willing to run anything with anyone...I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and try and be helpful. I am building up this argument that there will be a floodgate of these kinds of players and that is more than likely not true either.

 

I can definitely admit if I am probably wrong. Maybe I just need to calm down and relax with more coffee.

[Mubrak]

All previously reusable Biochem Consumables are no longer reusable

All previously reusable Cybertech grenades are no longer reusable

 

(Sigh) TBH at this point I don't care anymore. Time to move on.

 

We hope that you are looking forward to all of these changes and more, coming in Knights of the Fallen Empire.

Is that supposed to be funny?

Edited October 7, 2015 by Mubrak

[HarleysRule]

Retiring and making obsolete schematics that have taken crafters a long time to build up, simiplifying the crafting to primary school grade .... "streamlining" they call it?

Taking away any process of actually using your brain a little to craft, I really have been dreading this, but looks like it's true.

Been playing since the start but this seems it's the final nail in the coffin.

Here's hoping some of these new next gen korean games will be miles better.

 

I had 6 maxed out crafters when I stopped crafting (and playing) when 400 was the cap, so I'm not losing as much as some people, but it's still BS. I do like the taking randomness out of REing, and slightly increasing the chance of a success (what, from 20 to 25%?), but that's small consolation for people losing/having made obsolete a hundred purple RE'd schematics. They really should just convert all these schematics to the new version.

Edited October 7, 2015 by HarleysRule

[Luinthoron]

I totally glossed over the personal conquest BS to get some crafting mats. Yeah, no thanks.

The lowered personal conquest goals should help a bit with that, although it remains to be seen how much. On one hand, I have never even tried to reach it so far as it hasn't really been of much interest to me until now and way too high to bother. On the other hand, the crafting requirement could work as an additional incentive to get more people to participate in conquests.

[branmakmuffin]

Looks like they really want people to Conquest:

 

Crafters can now make gear equivalent to Story and Hard Mode Operations gear: [...] This new gear requires a new Crafting material that can only be acquired by completing your personal Conquest goals.

And note it does not say it's an automatic drop.

Edited October 7, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[TheSeventhJedi]

So, essentially, we should just stop crafting? That's what these changes are trying to get us to do, right? I mean, I don't know about you, but I love when I dump countless hours into schematics and discovery to have them just removed. I am so excited to do that all over again with different characters just to get back what I already had! This was exactly what crafting needed to not be useless.

[branmakmuffin]

So, essentially, we should just stop crafting? That's what these changes are trying to get us to do, right? I mean, I don't know about you, but I love when I dump countless hours into schematics and discovery to have them just removed. I am so excited to do that all over again with different characters just to get back what I already had! This was exactly what crafting needed to not be useless.

OK, then, stop crafting.

[Transcendent]

Crafting Material Removal

Along with all of the other changes we are making, we are going to be removing many of the current crafting materials in the game. When Fallen Empire launches, any of these materials that you have will automatically convert to their equivalent counterpart.

 

How does this affect the equivalent decoration nodes for those materials? Will they also be converted? Will the conquest rewards be adjusted to not provide those nodes in the future?

 

I'm sure you've thought of all of these changes, but just wanted to check to see what is happening in that area, as there is no mention of it in the blog.

 

Nice to see Artificer centric players getting hammered again after the crystals on the cartel market fiasco. So any chance you'll be altering the currently craftable +41 crystal schematics artificers have to all be usable from level 1, as a counter to the loss of enhancements we've taken time to learn, as well as the loss of the crystal market and by the looks of it going forward, relics as well? ().

 

Something needs to be done to compensate Artificer, because literally all you've done is take away everything from that crew skill.... and given it dyes. Which should be a synthweaver thing anyway.... imo.

[ItachiZaku]

Gear has NOTHING to do with ANYONE getting into a Raid. Either a person sucks or they don't suck. NEVER judge a person based on gear. That is a HUGE mistake.

 

You'd let me freshly dinged 60 shadow tank your HM PoH????

[Koichi]

Why you hate cybertech so much? I mean, you removed all the armorings, all the droid armor and what you gave instead? Some enhancements?!

 

It does not makes up for the loss of two things we could craft. If you took droid armor away, at least have some decency to add some cosmetic shells of cybernetic armor for players. It won't make up for it, but it would be at least something.

 

Not to mention that artifice got nothing to replace enhancements at all.

 

Don't forget we haven't received any REAL mount schematic updates and don't get me started on the starships....

[Keypek]

I wouldn't bring this up but since bioware won't take the time to try and communicate more clearly I'll just say it seems one of those pesky miner people they don't like said this crafting post was worded very poorly when talking about raiding end game gear and what is craftable and what does and does not need the conquest crafting ingredient. I won't go into it since it's all rumors at this point and might be changed anyway but I'm just going to wait and see how this all works out come 4.0. But not as annoyed as I was yesterday for the time being. Edited October 7, 2015 by Keypek

[Jadescythe]

Gear has NOTHING to do with ANYONE getting into a Raid. Either a person sucks or they don't suck. NEVER judge a person based on gear. That is a HUGE mistake.

 

I see so many people do the whole "I have this gear which proves I did that content" - biggest line of BS ever. I see SO many terrible players literally get CARRIED through content, win a roll on a piece of gear and then wear that gear bragging they "earned" it somehow.

 

I do agree with how you feel, though. i agree with your perceptions based on what you wrote, but I definitely do not want folks out there having the wrong idea about gear. In my eyes, only a player's reputation among his/her peers on how he/she plays says anything about if they are qualified to be running alongside me in a raid.

 

Like you, I'd rather have a great player in **** gear than a terrible player in top gear. But even before this system, it was always easy for a terrible player to get a complete set of high end OPs gear just getting carried.

 

In the end, being able to craft high end gear will make PvE easier for a lot of folks, without making any difference in OPs as far as player quality.

 

I both agree and disagree. A full set of 192s today really only means that your character is ready for HM, not that you as a player are. However, players with 198s that only drop when you get past 3 or 4/10 HM are not getting carried. You can't really hide a bad DPS against Torque unless you happen to have 3 top tier DPS and you can't really hide anyone doing poorly against UL.

 

It will also make HM easier in general (although I'm sure the scaling will do that as well) because you will have better gear going in at the start (if it's ops quality gear and not comm quality). Part of the enjoyment from progression raiding is getting slightly better each week from gear as well as a better grasp of mechanics and while groups can still do this on their own (ignoring crafted gear), it kind of ruins the spirit of competition between progression guilds racing to be first.

[Zephid]

I like most of the changes to the crafting system. But i think some more balancing should be made, and also what kind of crafting the devs want to impose on the players should be addressed. And also the role of each crafter on a player's game shall be balanced. Together with the total cost of replaceable items from different skills shall also be addressed. First of all in the current system crafting is burdensome, expensive, and time consuming, and mostly a money sink. so crafted materials are also very expensive since many players are get bored and quit or spend so much time and money so now they want to earn as much as possible from their past spend times. Currently skill gaining process is very slow and requires much grinding and much materials. With the improved pace of levelling it is very hard to keep crew skill levels with character level. Since the new system will also bring similar leveling pace, experience earned from crafting should also be increased. I think developers are trying to solve some of this problem by adding the ability to harvest higher nodes than skill level which will solve the problem for gathering skills but this will not solve it for crafting or missions. Maybe removal of crafting level requirement from schematics and using the crafting skill to determine the critical and the reverse engineering chance may solve the problem. So a crafter may craft their own gear but may not be able to get good results from reverse engineering or will not get critical results until skill is high enough.

The next concern is the removal of reusable items. I would say why remove them? Instead just remove their crew skill requirements. There are many casual players out there who cannot afford to buy so much stims adrenals or grenades. Let us have these reusable items and also let us also have them in the new end game. Their, heal, damage, or boost amounts should be in par with green quality items. If a player wants the best they can always buy the consumable versions to get the best boost, heal or damage. If a person does not want to spend that much money on consumables let them buy and use the reusable ones from market and use without the limitation of crew skill. This will solve the problem of some crew skills becoming economically advantageous as everyone can have the same advantage if they buy a crafted reusable item.

With the removal of companion gearing, increased pace of leveling and consolidation of primary stats, player’s need for crafted materials will be less in the levelling progress. Most of the items dropped will be able to be equipped by the character at this phase of the game. So most of the crafted goods should be valid for end game.

Removal of surge looks like good news but if simplifying and consolidating is the road taken, then this should also be applied for shield and absorb rating which means nothing without the other.

The total cost of equipping a custom armor is much more since mods and enchantment also requires 2 green 2 blue and 2 bought crafting component. So to make it comparable with armormech costs, mods and enchantments may be crafted in batches of 3 to put them on the same par. And the bonuses from weapons may be increased to get them to a position comparable to armormechs and synthweavers since armormechs/synthweavers build 7 pieces of equipment for every player while armstech and artifice build 1 or 2. So that total bonuses from a weapon may be increased to a value that it is equal to 1 barrel, 2 enhancement 2 mod, 1 crystal. Also the material cost and the resultant value of the item will be increased. Also moving the tech lineup of shields and generators to armstech would be a good idea.

In the current system armormechs, armstechs, syntwweavers and artifice do not create consumables and especially armstech create the least amount of goods. These professions may create new kind of consumables which enhances damage or damage reductions. So armstech and artifice may create some kind of boosters for the weapon that enhances the tech / force power, add elemental damage or convert some damage to elemental damage, trigger some damage actions or effects. While synthweavers and armormechs may create some buffs for armor rating, special damage reductions, or resistance to certain effects like stuns, movement penalities or dots.

Also schematics may be modified a bit so some optional components may be added while crafting for visual changes like color, or critical success chance or bonus stats or some triggered effects etc.

These are my first thoughts of the system from what i read.

Thank You

Edited October 7, 2015 by Zephid

[Master-Nala]

Ahy can't I get PvP gear from raiding? Why not remove expertise from game to remove exclusivity from Pvpers? I don't think it's fair that these remain exclusive to Pvpers and thus should get Ranked Gear from the GTN. But muh ELO!

 

There's a presumption in your comment. That I personally care about the exclusivity of PvP gear. I don't. I would be perfectly happy if they sold PvP gear for credits. I would be ecstatic if they rid the game of expertise.

 

I don't care what other people have. Why do you?

Edited October 7, 2015 by Master-Nala