curulz Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Link to your alleged facts? Rav and ToS were the 2 worst Ops they've ever released...the difficulty of them in SM drove off players. You're pretending that there are no other factors to why people left...but sadly for you and your made up facts, there are reasons. Who needs facts when you have speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArfiveDefour Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 You do realize a lot of people did try GW 2 and hated it right? Personally I didn' t play it long enough to see level- sync in action. Couldn' t stand the game, which was a shame since I liked the first one. Now I'm neutral on level-sync myself, but I think we would have been better off borrowing mentoring and level-less world bosses from City of Heroes instead. And you do realize that a lot of people tried GW2 and liked it, right? But whether people actually liked the game or not was not my point. I was suggesting for people to try out GW2 for the level sync in that game as a means to get used to it. As it feels very natural, doesn't make you feel weak, and is an overall good thing to have been implemented. And from what I have read about what Bioware intends to do in SWTOR, it seems to be very simular. Sadly I have never played City of Heroes (and will never be able to since that game has been shut down), so I'm unfamiliar with their "mentoring and level-less world boss systems". However, GW2 is still out there so anyone can check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 And you do realize that a lot of people tried GW2 and liked it, right? Then I assume they're playing GW2...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArfiveDefour Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Then I assume they're playing GW2...right? Yes... you can safely assume that people who like a game are also likely to (or at least would like to) play it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikahrtwo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Link to your alleged facts? Rav and ToS were the 2 worst Ops they've ever released...the difficulty of them in SM drove off players. You're pretending that there are no other factors to why people left...but sadly for you and your made up facts, there are reasons. Any more exuses? fact: they were there fact: barely anyone played them fact: it was same with all other OPs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Any more exuses? fact: they were there fact: barely anyone played them fact: it was same with all other OPs Oh quit it lol. Your pretend facts are pure bull. No excuses...just real facts...something you have failed to present at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabenschnabel Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Agree. I skipped Oblivion for the same reason. Getting more powerfull is one of the main pillars on a RPG and they take it away. Why level at all? It's pointless now. I will be unsubscribing until they change it back. bb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavageXX Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Agree. I skipped Oblivion for the same reason. Getting more powerfull is one of the main pillars on a RPG and they take it away. Why level at all? It's pointless now. I will be unsubscribing until they change it back. bb Such hyperbole and exaggeration.... if it was completely pointless a level 10 character wouldn't be any more powerful than a level 50 character while being synced. That's not going to be the case....And honestly, you have no idea how big (or little) of an effect it will have until the patch goes live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shfinky Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Seriously, whoever came up with this should just be outright fired. What's the point of levels now? You're just going to be brought up/down to be on par with the mobs. This change has nothing to do with difficulty and is completely asinine. Some of us like to go back to old stuff and farm it for credits/kill time/etc... I actually had no complaints about changes we've heard coming in KotFE until this. forcing it on players isn't just a plain crap thing to do but doesn't make sense in a LEVEL DRIVEN GAME. you might as well just remove all Experience and Levels at this point. Idiotic..completely idiotic. The should have stated in your opinion. You may not be fully aware of exactly what level sync means. At first i panicked also when i heard about it. Now I know more, I am happy with it. Level 65's will still be way more powerful for whichever planet they go to (At least the equivalent of 4-5 levels above) and will still be able to solo everything there. Also for lower levels you will still get XP for missions or when helping friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Don't worry. You aren't going to be suddenly nuked from existence. You are still going to have all your stuff and be powerful. This is a good thing for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Don't worry. You aren't going to be suddenly nuked from existence. You are still going to have all your stuff and be powerful. This is a good thing for the game. Thats right. You will be down leveled so they can create this grind to get back those things they took away. You'll appear almost as strong as you were but alas, not really. You will aggro mobs you have no interest in killing and get knocked off your mount at times but you can remember how fun that was right? Plus, you'll have no way to escape it, ever. Unless we can change their minds or money starts drying up and subs leave. You'll have this new down leveled experience to grind 4 year old content to get back what BW didn't think you did enough for in the past years of playing. This is not as good as you seem think it is as they do their best to hide just how little new this expansion brings other than story. And really, If it was that good. BW would have it all over making sure everyone knew about it. Not just the few of us on the forums. Edited October 15, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Does anybody realize here this can just go back and forth back and forth arguing about what can be, what is, how it should be, how it is, I said, she said, he said, I didn't say, you said type of stuff? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Does anybody realize here this can just go back and forth back and forth arguing about what can be, what is, how it should be, how it is, I said, she said, he said, I didn't say, you said type of stuff? :confused: I do, talking about game systems seems more and more like politic discussions... There's many things I would like to discuss (like I used to do a lot before) but it's just pointless, can't have a real discussion with people being honest, trying to understand each other point of view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArfiveDefour Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Agree. I skipped Oblivion for the same reason. Getting more powerfull is one of the main pillars on a RPG and they take it away. Why level at all? It's pointless now. I will be unsubscribing until they change it back. bb So much lol at this. Now, correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure one of you will), but isn't the point/reason of leveling to gain access to more content/maps/game features, to become more powerful to handle this new content that opens up to you as you progress through the game? And not to go back to lower level content for the express purpose of making your ego feel like you're superman while you're facerolling through everything because you couldn't handle said content at a game appropriate level or to farm for mats to craft stuff that will make you epically undergeard for your actual level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heythereqt Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thats right. You will be down leveled so they can create this grind to get back those things they took away. You'll appear almost as strong as you were but alas, not really. You will aggro mobs you have no interest in killing and get knocked off your mount at times but you can remember how fun that was right? Plus, you'll have no way to escape it, ever. Unless we can change their minds or money starts drying up and subs leave. You'll have this new down leveled experience to grind 4 year old content to get back what BW didn't think you did enough for in the past years of playing. This is not as good as you seem think it is as they do their best to hide just how little new this expansion brings other than story. And really, If it was that good. BW would have it all over making sure everyone knew about it. Not just the few of us on the forums. Sorry but everything here is a severe over-exaggeration. I can go to Yavin as a level 60 right now and avoid every single mob on my speeder by simply going a few meters around them. The only ones I aggro are the unavoidable mobs in the caves, and even then they don't knock me off my speeder because of the good gear I'm wearing (which you will still have with level scaling). In addition, KOTFE will have far more story content than either of the last two expansions, with a 100% confirmation of more being released in the following months. So the whole "Bioware is using level scaling to recycle content and cover up the fact that this is a shallow expansion" argument has no credibility what-so-ever. Sure, we aren't getting any new OPS or FPs, but I would much rather them take a few months extra to release good ones...rather than release them when they're bugged to oblivion like in SoR. On top of that, let's be logical here and consider the fact that story-based content with cinematics and voice overs takes much more time and effort to create than a few new operations. With this in mind, KOTFE gives us way more content than either of the previous expansions. Level scaling will be good for the game overall. It's not a "down leveled experience to grind 4 year old content to get back what BW didn't think you did enough for in the past years of playing." It's a way to take all the content that was previously completely obsolete once you out-leveled it, and make it relevant again by giving it a challenge and proper rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Sorry but everything here is a severe over-exaggeration. I can go to Yavin as a level 60 right now and avoid every single mob on my speeder by simply going a few meters around them. The only ones I aggro are the unavoidable mobs in the caves, and even then they don't knock me off my speeder because of the good gear I'm wearing (which you will still have with level scaling). In addition, KOTFE will have far more story content than either of the last two expansions, with a 100% confirmation of more being released in the following months. So the whole "Bioware is using level scaling to recycle content and cover up the fact that this is a shallow expansion" argument has no credibility what-so-ever. Sure, we aren't getting any new OPS or FPs, but I would much rather them take a few months extra to release good ones...rather than release them when they're bugged to oblivion like in SoR. On top of that, let's be logical here and consider the fact that story-based content with cinematics and voice overs takes much more time and effort to create than a few new operations. With this in mind, KOTFE gives us way more content than either of the previous expansions. Level scaling will be good for the game overall. It's not a "down leveled experience to grind 4 year old content to get back what BW didn't think you did enough for in the past years of playing." It's a way to take all the content that was previously completely obsolete once you out-leveled it, and make it relevant again by giving it a challenge and proper rewards. logic doesnt work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTGolding Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thats right. You will be down leveled so they can create this grind to get back those things they took away. You'll appear almost as strong as you were but alas, not really. You will aggro mobs you have no interest in killing and get knocked off your mount at times but you can remember how fun that was right? Plus, you'll have no way to escape it, ever. Unless we can change their minds or money starts drying up and subs leave. You'll have this new down leveled experience to grind 4 year old content to get back what BW didn't think you did enough for in the past years of playing. This is not as good as you seem think it is as they do their best to hide just how little new this expansion brings other than story. And really, If it was that good. BW would have it all over making sure everyone knew about it. Not just the few of us on the forums. No healthy game implements massive new game play changes. In fact most never do because it really is grasping at straws. I cant think of a single game that has picked up subs by doing something like this. We should know by the 1st investor call in 2016 but the writing is on the wall. This game is very soon gonna be close to dropping below the 500,000 sub line that BW has said is the cut off for SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) You didn't answer me. If everything is "level appropriate" then why have levels? There are better ways to grant abilities and passives that don't require levels, if having them be actually meaningful is such a problem. But I did, you just don't like the answer. As you are leveling you unlock new content that requires addtional skills and "power" to complete. The old, lower level, content doesn't require either the power or the skills that the new content does. When you are "level synced" upon entering the old, lower level, content your "power" is reduced to be level appropriate. Since you don't lose your skills you should still be able to go through the old content more easily than when you were leveling and you should still have at least some challenge. You will also not be irritating the people that are still leveling. On PvP servers it should at least give people leveling a fighting chance against gankers, an added benefit. P.S. Now if they were "up-syncing" as well as "down-syncing" you would have a point. Edited October 15, 2015 by Erasimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 But I did, you just don't like the answer. As you are leveling you unlock new content that requires addtional skills and "power" to complete. The old, lower level, content doesn't require either the power or the skills that the new content does. When you are "level synced" upon entering the old, lower level, content your "power" is reduced to be level appropriate. Since you don't lose your skills you should still be able to go through the old content more easily than when you were leveling and you should still have at least some challenge. You will also not be irritating the people that are still leveling. On PvP servers it should at least give people leveling a fighting chance against gankers, an added benefit. P.S. Now if they were "up-syncing" as well as "down-syncing" you would have a point. You got it right. There would be a point to the "why bother having levels??" argument if they also upsynced. But they aren't, they are only down scaling so we can stuff on other planets and probably for future content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastersdr Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 No healthy game implements massive new game play changes. In fact most never do because it really is grasping at straws. I cant think of a single game that has picked up subs by doing something like this. We should know by the 1st investor call in 2016 but the writing is on the wall. This game is very soon gonna be close to dropping below the 500,000 sub line that BW has said is the cut off for SWTOR. you might want to look at WOW cataclysm for example, mass changes and its still going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Siriusly what's wrong with you guys? we are talking about 2 different games they cannot comper with each other. THIS IS STILL STAR WARS NOT GUILD WARS2. Hard to understand? What is wrong with you? Why are you shouting. What exactly is the difference then that would make level-syncing not work in SWToR? SWToR is not like WoW, yet people make all kinds of comparisons. Yes, you can compare features, or refer to good working features in other games. It is what developers do, they look at other games and sometimes they do adopt what works, or what they think will work for their game. I've never heard anyone in GW2 complain that they can't engage and smack everything with the kind of invincibility you had in SWToR when going to lower levels. Level syncing works. It works in GW2, the developers adapted the idea for SWToR because they think it will work. And I think it'll work in SWToR. I will be so happy when I don't have to put characters on hold so I can play with family and friends. It'll be great to be able to follow through a large part of the class story without being interrupted by side-quests, and being able to go back later for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Seems a lot of people just want their GW2 in SWTOR ... If someone combined the gameplay of GW with the storytelling of SWToR it's would be the game of the decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Thats right. You will be down leveled so they can create this grind to get back those things they took away. You'll appear almost as strong as you were but alas, not really. You will aggro mobs you have no interest in killing and get knocked off your mount at times but you can remember how fun that was right? I can fly from taxi to my destination, with mobs on the same level, without getting knocked off. If you can't, you're doing something wrong. Plus, you'll have no way to escape it, ever. Unless we can change their minds or money starts drying up and subs leave. Might be an engine thing, ask them. You'll have this new down leveled experience to grind 4 year old content to get back ...Nobody is forcing you to go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikahrtwo Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 If someone combined the gameplay of GW with the storytelling of SWToR it's would be the game of the decade. Ooooh, yes, GW2 platform/art with BW sotrytelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) In no particular order (many spoiler tags in case people hate words)... I have np that there are multiple threads on the topic. Reason = There used to be a single thread. It was closed. Some people said it was because it was closed due to post count. I bookmarked the "What happened to the Level Synch" thread where a poster debunked it with higher post count threads : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8482257 THAT thread was locked. So, if people want to think I'm lying, go ahead. You didn't answer me. If everything is "level appropriate" then why have levels? Levels used to be a way to lawn-mow those 5,000+ kills. Now, they are a "permission slip" before being able to wear certain gear, or go to certain zone. Details = Some of the planets, I got my 5,000+ kill achievements naturally. Others, for example, Coruscant, I'm not even 1/3 of the way. Weird. I don't skip mobs for any planets on my 10 characters so far. Can't explain it. Guess I'm not getting that achievement unless I get 30 characters... or find out what happened. Now, about the "permission slip" bit, the biggest part of levels now is a gating mechanism. Powers. Gear. Planets. Gated by levels. Granted, other games gate things by use numbers, kill counts, factions, currency... so that's nothing new. I did prefer one-shotting the mobs for the kill lots achievements. And, being a terrible player, even at 7-10+ levels above par, champions handed my butt to me. Now? I won't bother with the Champion based achievements is all. And no, I don't like it. Or made a single player game from the get go. Yeah, if they had done KOTOR 3 SP, I know I wouldn't have come to a "new" Star Wars MMO. All my friends and family will never ask me again to join an MMO, so I'm finally done MMOs once I quit / get banned from SWTOR. Amused semi-hostile rant about "hyperbole" and "emotional" as ways to belittle a post = People act as if a post being hyperbolic or emotional negates a post. Here's a little fact people HAVE to ignore or pretend to not get. In my country, there's about to be an election. I can vote by rolling a dice at home, and picking the party that way. Or by the nicest looking candidate. Or by whoever isn't wearing blue. Or, emotionally buy into whatever hyperbole a specific candidate is saying. That affects peoples LIVES, and there is no check to see if voters affect an entire country... because of emotions. And, you think those people, of which I belong to, will be logical... on a game board? Who is illogical now? heh. OR If you tuned out at the politics... what is the predictor that a person (that thinks s/he can fly) will JUMP off a cliff? The LOGICAL FACT that s/he can fly? (which s/he can't fly) or the EMOTIONAL (but incorrect) BELIEF that s/he can fly? Answer: The predictor of the JUMPING is the emotional belief that s/he can fly... and of course... will still hit the ground, but s/he still jumped... just saying Edited October 16, 2015 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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