tmwfte Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Well, it isn't logical that a chest full of goodies, labeled 'security chest,' is lying out under a tree in Belsavis completely unlocked yet full of some mob's goodies.. It's not completely unlocked, you're unlocking it during the timed period of opening it. If it were completely unlocked, it would just be a simple pick-up with no cooldown. It also isn't labelled, that's a game mechanic. Just as the bad guys don't have floating signs over their heads denoting who they are, what their class/role is, or how much health they have remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danw Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It's a problem with the game design not the people, people will be people, anything the game allows people will do. Fix the lazy game design fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qouivandes Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 SWG wasn't like this, people were polite to each other, It seems that once MMO's became huge the cost was loosing a tight nit community that wernt a holes to each other. this...100% this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qouivandes Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It's a problem with the game design not the people, people will be people, anything the game allows people will do. Fix the lazy game design fix the problem. and this type of thinking is actually the problem and negates responsibility of the person. we are the sum of the choices we make both here and in life. anonymity has nurtured us into believing everything is owed to us; that we simply can do anything we wish until someone says you cannot. Common sense, politeness, and personal integrity/character is now a thing people attribute to suckers. We ask for restrictions simply by exploiting. We require lawmakers to make more laws to the point that makes the simplest things we should avoid a crime. i wont include any RW examples because this is, after all, just a game, but i find those folks that exploit, cheat, or are just plain rude a very good tell of who they really are and avoid them. on topic of the chest, they tried to fix it. they made it where you can now loot during combat. so as others have suggested get the chest first because youre asking for that douche to show up and take it while youre fighting. i really dont see any other way they can fix this, either, outside of equating the mob with the chest,; when the real issue is the lack of courtesy and self control of todays gamers. /getoffsoapbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It's a problem with the game design not the people, people will be people, anything the game allows people will do. Fix the lazy game design fix the problem. You know, this is simply not a problem that needs fixing. A few overly-sensitive players who don't seem to be able to accept that it's just a game get their noses pushed out of joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 You can't click some of the objectives if you're in combat. If you KNOW this before hand, then you should be prepared to deal with it. "If you stay ready, you ain't gotta GET ready," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) SWG wasn't like this, people were polite to each other, It seems that once MMO's became huge the cost was loosing a tight nit community that wernt a holes to each other. Nah, it wasn't tight nit... it was quite the opposite. It's just the 5 active players were so far apart in the game (in terms of distance) that it wasn't really an issue. Also, not really a lot to poach in Mos Eisley's cantina. Edited June 22, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I was mildly entertained when another guild threatened to report us for "stealing" their named commander. Our scout mentioned a player from another guild was hanging around right before he ported us. They were apparently ported a little bit sooner than my team, because most of them were there by the time we just started loading in. I loaded faster than most but seeing the other team starting to make their move I ran in and tagged it, blew a bunch of defenses and brought him over to my team as they finished loading. We started getting whispers about how they're going to report us. They even started evade resetting the boss a couple times (by taunting him). But they gave up and we killed it. Honestly, if there was anything report worthy in that encounter it was their attempts to steal our tagged boss through what I would consider an exploit of the evasion mechanics. Everything is fair game until you tag it for your own. Mobs, objectives, and chests. While I think that taking someone's objective or chest that they're fighting for is a jerk move and don't do it myself there's nothing you can do to prevent them from doing it, except for beating them to it. Edited June 22, 2015 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 You can rationalize it all you want, complain about it all you want, poorly analogize to theft IRL all you want. There is nothing you can do to stop it other than grab the chest first. And as I said before, the fact that there is nothing you can do about it is what really bothers you (and the OP). It's just a game. Someone got 10,000 game monies worth of game loot that you thought was yours because "you saw it first". Crikey. I never said it was theft. I never said you couldnt grab it first. i never said it was all that big a deal. I said if you need to find a way to justify stealing, your parents failed to teach you properly. stealing doesnt have to be illegal. it is still stealing your morals still suck even if you can make up a justification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henriquecorseuil Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So many things to worry about SWTOR.. bugs, engine problems, lack of endgame upgrades, lack of new warzone maps, class unbalances.. and much more. And you come here to QQ for losing chest loots? Have you ever considered, that the chest ISN'T yours if you do not touch it? I mean, only because you are fighting mobs near it, it do not means that the existing chest there is yours. Just do the obvious: loot the chest and waste time killing mobs later, and your "big" problem is solved. But again, the chests aren't yours, have that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I never said it was theft. I never said you couldnt grab it first. i never said it was all that big a deal. I said if you need to find a way to justify stealing, your parents failed to teach you properly. stealing doesnt have to be illegal. it is still stealing "Stealing" is, by definition, a crime. If it's not yours, it's not stealing (from you, in any event). If I think it's mine, even if I am wrong, it's not stealing. If I think you are the owner and that you gave me permission to take it, it's not stealing, even if I am wrong. The behavior described in this thread is "stealing" only in the minds of certain players, you among them, it seems. You are free to take whatever opinion you want on the matter, but it will never be anything other than your opinion. And something cannot at the same time be "not theft" and "stealing." So tell us, do you consider this behavior to be "not theft" or do you consider it to be "stealing?" Edited June 22, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVengeant Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Don't be upset because you are too slow. The chest is not yours until you loot it into your inventory, how hard is this grasp? L2P. Again, your attitude is not welcome. I suggest you try that in the store in REAL LIFE and see what happens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Again, your attitude is not welcome. I suggest you try that in the store in REAL LIFE and see what happens.... We are not talking about real life, we are talking about this game. In any event, what RL situation do you think even remotely analogizes to a free-for-all box of loot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Again, your attitude is not welcome. I suggest you try that in the store in REAL LIFE and see what happens.... This has nothing to do with shopping in real life. This is in regards to free for all loot, enemy npc tags and quest objectives in an open world where it's first click, first success. No one has any right to anything until they tag, loot or click first. If you cannot prioritize what things to do first, then that's on you and no one else. Basically, if you really want to claim all those things are yours? tag, loot, and click first. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criosdh Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Wow look at all the people trying to justify their lack of social skills and etiquette. I never said it was theft. I never said you couldnt grab it first. i never said it was all that big a deal. I said if you need to find a way to justify stealing, your parents failed to teach you properly. stealing doesnt have to be illegal. it is still stealing your morals still suck even if you can make up a justification Could not agree more. But you're wasting your breath trying to explain morality and social etiquette to a bunch of 4chan mongrels. Picking on them in school was bullying and should be illegal but screwing with a 12 year old girl over the internet should be ok because she wasn't able to beat them up for it. Ever notice how it's ok to do anything over the internet because the cowards can get away with it there but you're not allowed to treat them that way in RL because their lack of biceps is a disadvantage there? They suffer from narcissism and it's pretty common in some disorders. You won't be able to explain anything as complicated as "The Golden Rule" to them. Edited June 23, 2015 by Criosdh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Wow look at all the people trying to justify their lack of social skills and etiquette. Indeed. "It's just a game, so it's OK if I'm a jerk." "It's just a game, so it's OK if I make it less fun for other players, and if they "let" me make it less fun, that's their fault." "It's just a game, so it's OK to treat people like crap." "Anything that's not against the rules is absolutely allowable, because the rules define all right and wrong." Etc. Some people find it easy to engage in d-baggery when they don't have to look the person in the eyes and they're completely anonymous. They like to pretend that this doesn't tell us anything about them as people, that it's "just a game so none of it matters" -- and anyone who "lets" them make the game less fun "has the problem." "Morality is defined by what you do when no one is looking." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Wow look at all the people trying to justify their lack of social skills and etiquette. Why should I care about random players I will most likely never interact with? They are free and welcome to do the same to me. It isn't my fault that they choose to let the mobs, quest objectives, loot chests in the open world that they have no claim to, to begin with just sit there untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muljo_Stpho Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So the moral of this thread? If you see a chest/node you want, open it FIRST. Assume everyone else in-game are ninja looters who will grab it given half a chance. If you choose to be naive and ignore the way the world works (in-game & irl), expect to be **** on regularly. Pretty much that. That's why I too use the tried and true method of getting the chest opened first. I just find attempts (not just your's but anyone's) to armchair-lawyer real world statute to gameplay behaviour misplaced at best. True. Didn't say the OP was right, either. And ditto to that person's views too. The people trying to defend it / justify it are undeniably wrong of course, but at the same time it's really not worth getting bent out of shape about it when some opportunistic jerk does take advantage of a situation and annoy / inconvenience you. (Losing out on a chest or resource node is more of a nuisance, not an inconvenience, since they're entirely optional. But it is quite an inconvenience if it's an objective needed for a mission. Then you've got to wait for the respawn on the objective, which isn't always quick. (They've been better about that with some newer content (respawns as quick as 15 seconds) but there's some old stuff that takes something more like 15 minutes to respawn.)) So... you just learn to expect the worst out of everybody else in these situations. Do the right thing when you see somebody else fighting near a clickable and move on or wait for them to finish. But never expect anybody else to do the same for you when they see you fighting near something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Indeed. "It's just a game, so it's OK if I'm a jerk." "It's just a game, so it's OK if I make it less fun for other players, and if they "let" me make it less fun, that's their fault." "It's just a game, so it's OK to treat people like crap." "Anything that's not against the rules is absolutely allowable, because the rules define all right and wrong." Etc. Some people find it easy to engage in d-baggery when they don't have to look the person in the eyes and they're completely anonymous. They like to pretend that this doesn't tell us anything about them as people, that it's "just a game so none of it matters" -- and anyone who "lets" them make the game less fun "has the problem." "Morality is defined by what you do when no one is looking." It is just a game, it doesn't matter. I would recommend growing some thick skin and accepting that not everything is as morally wrong and dramatic as you claim it to be. The only possible detriment you could experience is the amount of time it takes to complete your quest being extended. Easy fixes to that include being more proactive and prioritizing. If you choose to be passive about it, than you have no one to blame but yourself. But again, you lay no claim to anything in the open world of an MMO that includes other players unless you: Tag, Loot, Click. Until then it's fair game. Edited June 23, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I was mildly entertained when another guild threatened to report us for "stealing" their named commander. Our scout mentioned a player from another guild was hanging around right before he ported us. They were apparently ported a little bit sooner than my team, because most of them were there by the time we just started loading in. I loaded faster than most but seeing the other team starting to make their move I ran in and tagged it, blew a bunch of defenses and brought him over to my team as they finished loading. We started getting whispers about how they're going to report us. They even started evade resetting the boss a couple times (by taunting him). But they gave up and we killed it. Honestly, if there was anything report worthy in that encounter it was their attempts to steal our tagged boss through what I would consider an exploit of the evasion mechanics. Everything is fair game until you tag it for your own. Mobs, objectives, and chests. While I think that taking someone's objective or chest that they're fighting for is a jerk move and don't do it myself there's nothing you can do to prevent them from doing it, except for beating them to it. in a similar situation, my guildies whispered the other group members and we ended up teaming up so that everyone got the credit. doesn't always work out that way, but its nice to try. you didn't actualy do anything wrong and (actualy evade resetting is more of a griefing behavior that tagging a mob first) but it would have been a more decent thing to do to see if teamup would work. then again... its not an obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idoya Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry, but 'stealing' digital loot that no one has even claimed yet (stealing involves taking something that belongs to someone else - loot chests don't belong to anyone until they're looted, so it's not stealing, no matter how you spin it) is a victimless 'crime', and attempting to apply your own sense of morality to it is only going to make you angry. The person doing it really doesn't care what you think of them in any way shape or form. There is nothing morally right OR wrong about looting chests, whether you were fighting the mob there already or not. Judging the morality of people because they took something you wanted says more about you than it does them. Edited June 23, 2015 by Idoya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 "Stealing" is, by definition, a crime. If it's not yours, it's not stealing (from you, in any event). If I think it's mine, even if I am wrong, it's not stealing. If I think you are the owner and that you gave me permission to take it, it's not stealing, even if I am wrong. The behavior described in this thread is "stealing" only in the minds of certain players, you among them, it seems. You are free to take whatever opinion you want on the matter, but it will never be anything other than your opinion. And something cannot at the same time be "not theft" and "stealing." So tell us, do you consider this behavior to be "not theft" or do you consider it to be "stealing?" neither stealing nor lack of reading comprehension are crimes but you do seem to have a problem with both. Theft as set out in your state or countries criminal code is illegal. you can steal things and not commit a crime. you are trying to justify your lack of morals. simple as that. lying to your girlfriend about that blond she saw you with is immoral. lying to the judge in court is a crime. understand the difference? it is stealing, you know perfectly well, but that doesnt bother you. you go ahead and take it. not the end of the world, no on kills a kitten, nothing like that. we each have our own moral code and yours is more flexible than most. so be it. you can rage and try to push it off on others but we all make our own choices. its really not a big deal after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varlak Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Personaly when I would clearly get the node if there was no mobs to clear I wait for the other player to engage and then pick up the node as it should be. And when the other player would had won the race I let him pick up the node and sometimes even help him clesr the path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousenuendo Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Why should I care about random players I will most likely never interact with? They are free and welcome to do the same to me. It isn't my fault that they choose to let the mobs, quest objectives, loot chests in the open world that they have no claim to, to begin with just sit there untouched. this guy gets it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLaaNie Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Why shouldn't I grab the chest if you are already occupying the enemies for me? If you're so daft that you fight first instead of grab first, then the other person deserves to receive the chest. You snooze you lose, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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