Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[genmyke]

i agree with this post the game is not bad by far but the combat just need to be smooth and responsive like one of the things i noticed (while playing a BH) i feel that the GCD is too long and should lowered to maybe about 0.3 seconds or even 0.5 seconds. (not the total GCD but shave off the time from the current)

the animations on moves when you cast them feel they are 1 second off after the cast finished and instant cast moves feel they take a couple seconds to go off.

 

 

this is the only problem i am having with the game if this can be fixed soon it would make alot of people even more happy with this great game.

Edited December 26, 2011 by genmyke

[oflow]

I read through this post, and read through many of the replies. And it is well thought out and well written, and I know exactly what your talking about. I am an ex -wow player for 6 years and been playing MMO's over 10 years.

 

I can honestly say I cannot relate to your problem. Every single button I hit feels completely responsive, whats more the combat feels like it has a lot more impact then wow ever did.

 

I am trying to figure out why you feel like your character is slow to respond if your not having lag or FPS, my best guess is your not used to the pacing of the game. The game itself is more slow paced then wow, the animations take longer, the Auto attack for the shadow takes about 1 full second to complete, and it consumes a GCD. This is the design of the game.

 

Every ability seems smooth to me, if there was some sort of delay I would be here complaining with you guys, but honestly I think what your talking about is the animations and the longer GCD getting in your way, especially if your used to wow.

 

I have no problems with interrupts, or emergency CC's, or stuns everything goes off as soon as I click in, and when I am mashing something and it isnt working I usually am holding down the wrong hot key lol or its on cool down.

 

I'd say give it more time, when I first got more then 10-15 abilities that I was using in combat fairly often I really took the time out for practice combat on weaker enemies to learn how the game tends to operate.

 

IMO I think your mislabeling your problem. Its not a problem on biowares end, if it was, this thread would be much larger then it is. When there is a universal problem with peoples play time the forums will overload, remember launch day's server wait times ? Huge forum overload.

 

There is no character delay, not unless you have lag. If there is a delay your experiencing I am willing to bet you just haven't gotten used to the slower pacing of the game compared to wow.

 

 

 

Consider yourself lucky or you are experiencing the issue and dont realize it depending on what class you play. (ranged classes that dont use cover arent as effected by the issue)

 

There are tons of these threads all over the forums, its not a minor problem. Look at all the youtube videos people post showing the issue.

Edited December 26, 2011 by oflow

[Squizzo]

Signing in to agree with op. Hoping this issue is looked into asap.

[JesperC]

OP is 100% right. Totally agree that this needs to be fixed.

[Siem]

 

IMO I think your mislabeling your problem. Its not a problem on biowares end, if it was, this thread would be much larger then it is. When there is a universal problem with peoples play time the forums will overload, remember launch day's server wait times ? Huge forum overload.

 

 

Not true at all. For some people, this issue doesn't matter at all. For many more, it's difficult to articulate or even figure out what the problem is.

 

The reason this thread is so popular is because it has put into writing what so many of us have been scratching our heads about over the last week and a half.

[Metajedi]

Much larger than 38 pages where 90% of the people are posting that they not only agree but find it game-breaking?

 

You know how the people in the insane asylum think its EVERYONE ELSE who's crazy? Well, I'm afraid you might be the one that's not all there.

 

38 pages doesnt seem like a lot to me, I made a post about character customization that was up to a 100 by the end of the day.

 

I am talking about threads that have been maxed out 30 times lol. 38 pages, im sorry you a minority in comparison to the rest of us who are enjoying the game.

 

 

I am playing right now, and I am pushing my 5 key which is hotkeyed to my small spinning saber slash the little jedi shadow aoe. And everytime I push is its instant, there is zero delay.

 

Im not being a fanboy, I just dont see this delay everyone is talking about.

[Senden]

Ability delay can be really annoying.. it becomes blatantly obvious in say huttball and you time the knockback perfect but only to see the player get knocked right past the fire for an easy score.

[Larlar]

Replying to rate as 5 star. I want to second he who said a Bioware comment on this would be most appreciated. An acknowledgment of our issue would be a great start and would give me great faith that something might be done.

[Nephrahim]

I read through this post, and read through many of the replies. And it is well thought out and well written, and I know exactly what your talking about. I am an ex -wow player for 6 years and been playing MMO's over 10 years.

 

I can honestly say I cannot relate to your problem. Every single button I hit feels completely responsive, whats more the combat feels like it has a lot more impact then wow ever did.

 

I am trying to figure out why you feel like your character is slow to respond if your not having lag or FPS, my best guess is your not used to the pacing of the game. The game itself is more slow paced then wow, the animations take longer, the Auto attack for the shadow takes about 1 full second to complete, and it consumes a GCD. This is the design of the game.

 

Every ability seems smooth to me, if there was some sort of delay I would be here complaining with you guys, but honestly I think what your talking about is the animations and the longer GCD getting in your way, especially if your used to wow.

 

I have no problems with interrupts, or emergency CC's, or stuns everything goes off as soon as I click in, and when I am mashing something and it isnt working I usually am holding down the wrong hot key lol or its on cool down.

 

I'd say give it more time, when I first got more then 10-15 abilities that I was using in combat fairly often I really took the time out for practice combat on weaker enemies to learn how the game tends to operate.

 

IMO I think your mislabeling your problem. Its not a problem on biowares end, if it was, this thread would be much larger then it is. When there is a universal problem with peoples play time the forums will overload, remember launch day's server wait times ? Huge forum overload.

 

There is no character delay, not unless you have lag. If there is a delay your experiencing I am willing to bet you just haven't gotten used to the slower pacing of the game compared to wow.

 

Play a melee class with procs, and it becomes much more obvious. On my Sorcerer it was a minor nuisance I barley noticed. On My Knight though, it was a night and day difference. When I hit Overpower on my War in WoW, I instantly counterattack. here, it takes, as the op says, about half a second to connect.

 

Not necessarily game breaking, but something that would greatly improve the game if it was fixed.

[Siem]

38 pages doesnt seem like a lot to me, I made a post about character customization that was up to a 100 by the end of the day.

 

I am talking about threads that have been maxed out 30 times lol. 38 pages, im sorry you a minority in comparison to the rest of us who are enjoying the game.

 

 

I am playing right now, and I am pushing my 5 key which is hotkeyed to my small spinning saber slash the little jedi shadow aoe. And everytime I push is its instant, there is zero delay.

 

Im not being a fanboy, I just dont see this delay everyone is talking about.

 

I don't think you understand the problem. The animation may be instant, but the actual execution of the ability is delayed.

 

Just like with your speeder. The animation may go off without a hitch, but move too soon after activation and you're going to get dismounted.

 

edit: Furthermore, this is one of the most intelligent, mature, and constructive threads on the forums. It's not some nonsense AC respec thread or a damage meter debate thread...it has actual meat to it.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Siem

[mbernert]

I read through this post, and read through many of the replies. And it is well thought out and well written, and I know exactly what your talking about. I am an ex -wow player for 6 years and been playing MMO's over 10 years.

 

I can honestly say I cannot relate to your problem. Every single button I hit feels completely responsive, whats more the combat feels like it has a lot more impact then wow ever did.

 

I am trying to figure out why you feel like your character is slow to respond if your not having lag or FPS, my best guess is your not used to the pacing of the game. The game itself is more slow paced then wow, the animations take longer, the Auto attack for the shadow takes about 1 full second to complete, and it consumes a GCD. This is the design of the game.

 

Every ability seems smooth to me, if there was some sort of delay I would be here complaining with you guys, but honestly I think what your talking about is the animations and the longer GCD getting in your way, especially if your used to wow.

 

I have no problems with interrupts, or emergency CC's, or stuns everything goes off as soon as I click in, and when I am mashing something and it isnt working I usually am holding down the wrong hot key lol or its on cool down.

 

I'd say give it more time, when I first got more then 10-15 abilities that I was using in combat fairly often I really took the time out for practice combat on weaker enemies to learn how the game tends to operate.

 

IMO I think your mislabeling your problem. Its not a problem on biowares end, if it was, this thread would be much larger then it is. When there is a universal problem with peoples play time the forums will overload, remember launch day's server wait times ? Huge forum overload.

 

There is no character delay, not unless you have lag. If there is a delay your experiencing I am willing to bet you just haven't gotten used to the slower pacing of the game compared to wow.

 

While I don't know the exact technical side of things, I will bite into your argument here.

 

Let me assume that the problem is that I just am not used to the slower combat pace. If that's the case, then for me, I won't be subbing, just like in aion, just like in rift, and now this game. If what you say is right, and I hope other game companies are reading this for my gaming futures sake, I won't be subbing to your games until you make combat more like the smooth, responsive controls I'm used to in wow.

[Metajedi]

i agree with this post the game is not bad by far but the combat just need to be smooth and responsive like one of the things i noticed (while playing a BH) i feel that the GCD is too long and should lowered to maybe about 0.3 seconds or even 0.5 seconds. (not the total GCD but shave off the time from the current)

the animations on moves when you cast them feel they are 1 second off after the cast finished and instant cast moves feel they take a couple seconds to go off.

 

 

this is the only problem i am having with the game if this can be fixed soon it would make alot of people even more happy with this great game.

 

I think this guy is kind of circling around what I am saying. Its not delay, its the GCD its longer then it is in wow. You guys are not used to it yet.

 

Find an instant ability, like the jedi shadow spinning slash aoe or something similar, get a stop watch if you want. I am getting zero delay in or out of combat, I do play a melee class to the person said that its lessened on range classes. Sorry guys, I really think its you.

[scfs]

In the words of our lord god fry.

 

 

FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT

[Zironic]

38 pages doesnt seem like a lot to me, I made a post about character customization that was up to a 100 by the end of the day.

 

I am talking about threads that have been maxed out 30 times lol. 38 pages, im sorry you a minority in comparison to the rest of us who are enjoying the game.

 

 

I am playing right now, and I am pushing my 5 key which is hotkeyed to my small spinning saber slash the little jedi shadow aoe. And everytime I push is its instant, there is zero delay.

 

Im not being a fanboy, I just dont see this delay everyone is talking about.

 

yadayadayada, I'm a special snowflake, yadayada

 

That's what the rest of the world see when they read your post. If you're interested in participating in the discussion you could actually read the other posts or watch the videos and understand what the rest of us are talking about.

[baznasty]

38 pages doesnt seem like a lot to me, I made a post about character customization that was up to a 100 by the end of the day.

 

I am talking about threads that have been maxed out 30 times lol. 38 pages, im sorry you a minority in comparison to the rest of us who are enjoying the game.

 

 

I am playing right now, and I am pushing my 5 key which is hotkeyed to my small spinning saber slash the little jedi shadow aoe. And everytime I push is its instant, there is zero delay.

 

Im not being a fanboy, I just dont see this delay everyone is talking about.

 

It's like trying to explain what a fart smells like to someone with a cold.

 

Just consider yourself lucky that you don't have to smell it. Doesn't change the fact that I just sharted.

Edited December 26, 2011 by baznasty

[Spirodex]

I think this guy is kind of circling around what I am saying. Its not delay, its the GCD its longer then it is in wow. You guys are not used to it yet.

 

Find an instant ability, like the jedi shadow spinning slash aoe or something similar, get a stop watch if you want. I am getting zero delay in or out of combat, I do play a melee class to the person said that its lessened on range classes. Sorry guys, I really think its you.

 

Why are you so bad?

[Skoll]

Yeah I've noticed this as well. From what I've been able to tell the automatic defensive animations interrupt other triggered actions too.

 

So for instance if you are a jedi in combat and a group of people are attacking you and your character is doing the animation to block blaster fire, your abilities wont trigger until your character stops doing that animation, which is making it get out of sync. So sometimes when you are doing the block the lasers animation and you use an ability it triggers the gcd but nothing happens.

 

When I first heard that Bioware were planning to sync animations (ie lightsabers blocking attacks), a small red light started flashing in the back of my mind. It brought back memories of the first Gods & Heroes Beta and how combat in that game felt frustratingly unresponsive due to synchronized animations or even the auto-attack preventing you from using special abilities unless your timing was flawless or you furiously hammered the buttons (and even that didn't always work). TOR, sadly, seems to suffer from a very similar issue.

[Siem]

Here's a guy demonstrating it pretty simply.

 

[Mandemalex]

Example of your problem: Sith Sorcerer casts 'Lightning Strike' even though the cast bar is fully loaded, the lightning itself takes 0.2 - 0.5 seconds to actually leave your hand, and allow you to start casting another ability.

 

If this is the type of thing you're on about, then I 100% agree. Fact of the matter is, I would sacrifice animation for responsive gameplay anytime (look at WoW)

 

Unfortunately, this is a major and core part of the game's programming and would take quite some time and resources for it to be corrected (or at least I'm assuming so)

 

And even further unfortunately, being such a fundamental part of the game... I think it would take a LOT of awareness for BW to realise this is in fact, as you say, a make or breaker as far as gameplay goes.

 

I have learned to tolerate it for now, but alas if it doesn't get fixed, I can see it proving very frustrating and causing a rage-quit back to that monstrosity of a 7-year old game

[lolsz]

I wouldn't argue with Meta.Mainly,because i've seen people find out this game only reads on 1 or 2 cores,so core i7s/quad cores spike in fps,and people argued that,they never had the spikes,game funs flawlessly.

[Kayin]

I also have to agree on this. This game gets you deeply tied to the character. That makes it even more disturbing when you and your character are not doing the same things. You want it to be so that you and your character are the same, and the delay cuts that.

Another thing is of course the playing itself as many have said here earlier. It kinda sucks when you die due to the delay alone.

 

So please fix this. The game is so damn good otherwise, don't let this ruin the feeling.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Kayin

[lolsz]

I also have to agree on this. This game sucks in in many ways and you get deeply tied to the character. That makes it even more disturbing when you and your character are not doing the same things. You want to feel you and your character are the same, and the delay cuts that.

Another thing is of course the playing itself as many have said here earlier. It kinda sucks when you die due to the delay alone.

 

So please fix this. The game is so damn good otherwise, don't let this ruin the feeling.

 

Agreed,hope they pay attention and fix this,I have a gut feeling.That this isn't in the coding,may be able to fix it easily.

[IasonEvan]

I would argue that Guild Wars is just as responsive as WoW. Whether or not you think GW is an MMO or not is a moot point because the mechanics are classic MMO. On my Mesmer or Ranger I can interrupt 1/2 second casts by casting classes in GW with ease. That is control.

[Leilei]

I am actually trying to reproduce the problem in which the gcd fires off but the attack doesnt go off.

 

Im using a scoundrel and Im trying to mix Charged burst -> vital shot -> charged burst charged burst -> grenade

 

And Ive never had it bug out or had one move not work. I tried spamming, queueing and they still moved smoothly.

 

I also tried Underworld medicine -> diag scan -> diag scan Underworld medicine -> underworld medicine.

 

The moment underworld medicine reached the full bar id use diag scan and it would *BOTH* heal and never not go off.

 

I tried using pugnacity while doing attacks and it worked.

 

I tried using Flurry of bolts -> blaster whip -> back blast -> vital shot -> flurry of bolts -> blaster whip -> sucker punch -> sucker punch

 

Aside from the usual "no effect until a certain point of the animation" I am not able to reproduce the problem of not being able to stick to a specific skill rotation.

 

Im going to continue going through with this until I can get it to bug up. Someone else also talked about how if we cast an ability with a cast time and move while its casting, it will continue the cast bar but that is not the case for me. When I move anytime during the cast of underworld medicine, It immediately shows "cancelled". Even with diagnostic scan.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Leilei

[dekey]

For those saying it is client side and not an issue in the engine, please explain the issue that Snipers face when using natural cover;

 

I roll to cover, an ability that triggers the global cooldown, once i reach cover and my GCD is over, I begin to cast a 2.5 sec cast ability, which will 100% fail midcast without reason.

 

However if I simply kneel and use mobile cover, the problem does not occur.

 

The difference between the 2 covers is one has me moving, the other doesn't. Ok so by that logic, whilst off of GCD i should be able to cast instants whilst rolling right, as technically I'm just moving? Nope I can't.

 

So what is preventing me from completing my cast when i am in natural cover if it isn't because im moving?

 

The animation.

 

The more I look at this situation the clearer it is that it is the animations delaying the abilities, more specifically, animations that are longer than the GCD. In this case; my character "kneeling" behind the natural cover after she has rolled to it.

 

The same occurs when casting a chain of abilities in which one has a lengthy animation, such as throwing a grenade then trying to instantly fire off an instant. The 1st attempt will fail as, despite being off of GCD, you are still "casting" your instant grenade.

 

Please don't write this off as "everyone has crap lag/fps/pc's" That really isn't the case.